Omaha Streetcar Discussion

[BN1]

Follow up on Portland. I see they are expanding the North South line and it will allow developers to create an entirely new neighborhood in a former industrial area.

https://portlandstreetcar.org/news/2024 ... pportunity

[Garrett]

Had a talk with the head of the Blackstone BID yesterday, and he said he’s pretty certain UNMC will extend the streetcar past Saddlecreek, putting a terminus around 46th street.

[ita]

Had a talk with the head of the Blackstone BID yesterday, and he said he’s pretty certain UNMC will extend the streetcar past Saddlecreek, putting a terminus around 46th street.

That's a solid source. I know UNMC has held neighborhood meetings to talk about their expansion, street improvements, etc. so the head of the Blackstone BID is a good person to get information from. If it goes down to 46th, that's about a 3000 foot stretch. I think the current cost of the initial 3 or so mile route is $440M, including all the additional utility work being piled on. If we extrapolate that budget to essentially a fifth of the initial route, UNMC could spend around $90M for that extension. I am not sure if they have said how they would pay for the extension, but that's around a budget of a standard Heritage Foundation project.

[halgy]

While that extension probably makes the most sense, I was kinda harboring a hope that they'd turn it south down 42nd and end up at or near Leavenworth.

[Garrett]

While that extension probably makes the most sense, I was kinda harboring a hope that they'd turn it south down 42nd and end up at or near Leavenworth.

They could do branching in the future. I guess with the bulk of all of the new development at UNMC being on the northern end of campus they’d rather create a stronger connection to the Catalyst and Steel Castings site west of Saddle Creek.

[Dusty]

Had a talk with the head of the Blackstone BID yesterday, and he said he’s pretty certain UNMC will extend the streetcar past Saddlecreek, putting a terminus around 46th street.

They have also mentioned they want it to go through campus. I'm guessing they will extend to 42nd Street, Head South to Emile Street, go right by the parking garages, and cross Saddlecreek to the new campus. That would put the terminus around 46th street.

[Padre]

I have a memory of Nebraska Medicine wanting to get 42nd st shut down at the campus. They might not want the streetcar to go that way.

[Busguy2010]

Don't know if it's true at all at this point, but I was able to extrapolate from past renderings that they indeed did want the streetcar to pass through the campus. They had planned to close 42nd at Dewey, which led me to believe Dewey would have been the route, assuming a building were to be rearranged. UNMC has been so fluid in recent years, it's no wonder they pressed the pause button for their portion of the route.

[Athomsfere]

I have a memory of Nebraska Medicine wanting to get 42nd st shut down at the campus. They might not want the streetcar to go that way.

Could go streetcar / pedestrian mall without issue. Speed up most forms of getting around it at the small cost of losing car access.

[Mapguy]

Losing car access to 42nd st is not a small cost for the people that live in the area. If you close 42nd it creates a 12 block wall for anybody trying to go north and south from 36th st all the way to Saddle Creek.

Closing 42nd is a bad idea, 42nd goes all the way to the interstate and Dodge, it connects to the County Healh dept, the VA, and all the neighborhoods south of the interstate, which is kind of important if you're driving a fire truck or an ambulance or a police vehicle.

Id say there's zero interest in closing 42nd from the neighborhoods south of UNMC.

[Busguy2010]

Losing car access to 42nd st is not a small cost for the people that live in the area. If you close 42nd it creates a 12 block wall for anybody trying to go north and south from 36th st all the way to Saddle Creek.

Closing 42nd is a bad idea, 42nd goes all the way to the interstate and Dodge, it connects to the County Healh dept, the VA, and all the neighborhoods south of the interstate, which is kind of important if you're driving a fire truck or an ambulance or a police vehicle.

Id say there's zero interest in closing 42nd from the neighborhoods south of UNMC.

I definitely agree with all of this.

[Athomsfere]

Losing car access to 42nd st is not a small cost for the people that live in the area. If you close 42nd it creates a 12 block wall for anybody trying to go north and south from 36th st all the way to Saddle Creek.

Closing 42nd is a bad idea, 42nd goes all the way to the interstate and Dodge, it connects to the County Healh dept, the VA, and all the neighborhoods south of the interstate, which is kind of important if you're driving a fire truck or an ambulance or a police vehicle.

Id say there's zero interest in closing 42nd from the neighborhoods south of UNMC.

Good points. I was specifically thinking of Dewey to Leavenworth. I think that would be a win, overall. When I lived in Blackstone that stretch was often a mess. Might need a little clever design though.

[Louie]

Losing car access to 42nd st is not a small cost for the people that live in the area. If you close 42nd it creates a 12 block wall for anybody trying to go north and south from 36th st all the way to Saddle Creek.

Closing 42nd is a bad idea, 42nd goes all the way to the interstate and Dodge, it connects to the County Healh dept, the VA, and all the neighborhoods south of the interstate, which is kind of important if you're driving a fire truck or an ambulance or a police vehicle.

Id say there's zero interest in closing 42nd from the neighborhoods south of UNMC.

Good points. I was specifically thinking of Dewey to Leavenworth. I think that would be a win, overall. When I lived in Blackstone that stretch was often a mess. Might need a little clever design though.

I think thats exactly what he was getting at:



This essentially creates a massive superblock.

[buildomaha]

A…campus?

[Busguy2010]

Losing car access to 42nd st is not a small cost for the people that live in the area. If you close 42nd it creates a 12 block wall for anybody trying to go north and south from 36th st all the way to Saddle Creek.

Closing 42nd is a bad idea, 42nd goes all the way to the interstate and Dodge, it connects to the County Healh dept, the VA, and all the neighborhoods south of the interstate, which is kind of important if you're driving a fire truck or an ambulance or a police vehicle.

Id say there's zero interest in closing 42nd from the neighborhoods south of UNMC.

Good points. I was specifically thinking of Dewey to Leavenworth. I think that would be a win, overall. When I lived in Blackstone that stretch was often a mess. Might need a little clever design though.

I think thats exactly what he was getting at:



This essentially creates a massive superblock.

Exactly, and getting around the area would be a nightmare. I mean, sure, it would help walkability in the immediate campus, but I don't like the thought of how much traffic would be directed to other streets.

As far as direct routes between Dodge and I-80 in the Midtown area, you have 72nd, 42nd, and I-480. I don't think it'd be wise to remove one of the already sparse group of options.

[thenewguy]

We just spent the weekend in KC and rode the streetcar. What a resource! We've ridden it before just after it opened, but was much busier this time. The KC Current was playing, so s lot of people parked and rode it down to the stadium (ok not TO the stadium, but it's very close proximity). Other people were using it to deliver Uber eats (couple pizza guys were on it). As much as it was getting used, I can see why they want to expand. The area along the route is very nice too. Can't wait for ours, it's gonna do more to boost downtown since qwest center was built

[skinzfan23]

I’ve argued this before but in some ways Omaha’s initial line is being built in a more developed area than KC. There is still a ton of potential growth that can happen in Omaha. But to connect Schwab/CHI, Steelhouse, Holland, new downtown parks, MOA, Orpheum, Rose, Blackstone and UNMC…..pretty incredible start!!!

[Garrett]

I’ve argued this before but in some ways Omaha’s initial line is being built in a more developed area than KC. There is still a ton of potential growth that can happen in Omaha. But to connect Schwab/CHI, Steelhouse, Holland, new downtown parks, MOA, Orpheum, Rose, Blackstone and UNMC…..pretty incredible start!!!

Yeah I honestly don’t get when people online complain that it goes nowhere when it literally goes through the densest neighborhoods in the city with a huge number of jobs and entertainment destinations

[halgy]

I’ve argued this before but in some ways Omaha’s initial line is being built in a more developed area than KC. There is still a ton of potential growth that can happen in Omaha. But to connect Schwab/CHI, Steelhouse, Holland, new downtown parks, MOA, Orpheum, Rose, Blackstone and UNMC…..pretty incredible start!!!

Yeah I honestly don’t get when people online complain that it goes nowhere when it literally goes through the densest neighborhoods in the city with a huge number of jobs and entertainment destinations

A lot of people only go downtown a couple of times a year for a specific event. They maybe don't appreciate that events are happening all the time, each of them drawing thousands of people to the area. Or that between events, thousands of people live and work downtown, and are a self-selected group who are likely to use the streetcar a lot.

[Doctor Fate]

This map has been posted before but the chart I found interesting. There are a lot of surface lots downtown that can be developed but Omaha ranks pretty high in terms of parking score, which is mainly based on the percent of land downtown that is surface parking. The lower the score the better.

[Louie]

While that is great to see, the number of surface lots north of the interstate that are outside of their definition of downtown is very high.

[Omaha Cowboy]

This is really good and worth the listen-



Ciao..LiO…Peace

[almighty_tuna]

Very softball interview that I'm sure most of us on the boards were familiar with, but it included a great explainer on the TIF situation.

[skinzfan23]

I didn't know that we are more than likely looking at Spring 2028 for it to open. I originally thought it was to be completed in 2026 and latest of Spring 2027.

[Louie]

I didn't know that we are more than likely looking at Spring 2028 for it to open. I originally thought it was to be completed in 2026 and latest of Spring 2027.

I understand work is being done behind the scenes, but the low activity level of actual construction on the lines themselves isn't reassuring.

[MetcalfeHarrison]

I think we will begin to see the parts that they are bidding out within the next month or so. I know that the contractor and the engineer have been pretty far apart on what the total cost of the project is so that has been slowing things down. I also know that there is basically no chance they will shelf the project, so don't worry about it not happening.

[skinzfan23]

there is basically no chance they will shelf the project, so don't worry about it not happening.

That is good to hear. It also sounded like that from the video as well.

[Louie]

I'm glad to hear it, just wish we saw a little more dirt moving ha

[halgy]

I'm not worried about them canceling the current project. But the longer it takes and the higher the costs get, the lower the chances that the system will be expanded in any reasonable timeframe. I was hoping everything would go smoothly enough that we could just launch into improvements right away (e.g., an extension north to the Millwork Commons and/or the new soccer stadium). WIth enough delays and cost overruns, there might be enough public pressure to block everything, at least for several years until the streetcar has proven itself.

[MetcalfeHarrison]

I'm not worried about them canceling the current project. But the longer it takes and the higher the costs get, the lower the chances that the system will be expanded in any reasonable timeframe. I was hoping everything would go smoothly enough that we could just launch into improvements right away (e.g., an extension north to the Millwork Commons and/or the new soccer stadium). WIth enough delays and cost overruns, there might be enough public pressure to block everything, at least for several years until the streetcar has proven itself.

Definitely agree with you on this, I really thought we would see a lot of work on the line this year but it feels like every update pushes things a little further back. They really need to get rolling soon.

[FishFighter92]

I'm still waiting for the KC extension. It seems like it has been taking forever (tons of utility work). And they don't post many updates. Hopefully the Omaha project will post timely updates like the airport has.

[MetcalfeHarrison]

I'm still waiting for the KC extension. It seems like it has been taking forever (tons of utility work). And they don't post many updates. Hopefully the Omaha project will post timely updates like the airport has.

If you're looking for updates, check out this website. It looks like they have a weekly newsletter that they put out.

https://www.buildkcstreetcar.com/weekly ... on-updates

[skinzfan23]

Yes, originally they had stated that mainline construction was going to start this year. (now at best, it will be next year) They still have to tear down and rebuild the Farnam and Harney bridges (I estimate that will take at least a year to do that) Hopefully in the mean time they can keep progressing with everything else.

[FishFighter92]

Thanks Metcalfe, that's perfect

[Dusty]

The city keeps mentioning a North Omaha extension. As I said before I disagree with the 19th/16th route to airport. It's the wrong mode, speed, path, etc. Plus, there will be complications running through an industrial area that is proposed on 16th.

it's important we build lines to extend to strong activity centers (business districts) and/or transit hubs (places with more connections with buses). It's also important to pick a path that has enough land to develop to bring density and tax revenue to pay for it.

This is what I suggest:
North Omaha-
Extends off Farnam line on 20th Northbound (through Creighton). Turns Westbound on Lake Street and goes until Benson Business District where is ends.

South Omaha-
We could run a mirrored extension to follow same pattern. Extends off Harney on 20th Southbound. Turns on Martha Street going Westbound. Zig zag on 32nd Ave over to Center Street. This extends to Aksarben Village.

[skinzfan23]

Yeah I don't know why that keeps getting mentioned as well. Sometimes I almost wonder if its to keep people from talking. There are so many in the metro that know nothing about how a streetcar works. All I ever hear is that we need it to go to the airport and the zoo. (in my opinion, neither are a good option)

[Garrett]

Yeah I don't know why that keeps getting mentioned as well. Sometimes I almost wonder if its to keep people from talking. There are so many in the metro that know nothing about how a streetcar works. All I ever hear is that we need it to go to the airport and the zoo. (in my opinion, neither are a good option)

I'd say the zoo is a pretty good destination. The Littles Italy and Bohemia have been developing nicely, and the zoo is the number 1 tourist destination in the state, though the only drawback being that the zoo closes at 5 so the line would lose some of its functionality at that point, but still a worthy destination for a line at some point.

[Busguy2010]

Dusty, I like your north route. If it MUST go through North Omaha, Benson is a much more fit destination than the airport. Though it's a really long extension because of going through North Omaha. I had always been of the thought the Benson extension should follow the old Military-Hamilton-40th route, or even be an extension of the old Dundee route.

[Mapguy]

The zoo extension by itself isn't the best option but when you look at a South line going down 13th st to connect little Bohemia to downtown and the zoo it makes a ton of sense. Little Bohemia has a ton of development potential and the zoo is a natural end point.

People can park at the zoo, spend the day there; then ride the train downtown or Little Bohemia to eat and ride back. It would be the perfect park and ride at night when the zoo is closed and use all that parking infrastructure.

[Busguy2010]

The zoo extension by itself isn't the best option but when you look at a South line going down 13th st to connect little Bohemia to downtown and the zoo it makes a ton of sense. Little Bohemia has a ton of development potential and the zoo is a natural end point.

People can park at the zoo, spend the day there; then ride the train downtown or Little Bohemia to eat and ride back. It would be the perfect park and ride at night when the zoo is closed and use all that parking infrastructure.

I agree on all points there. It seems like one of the more natural and obvious, and cheapest extensions.