Omaha Streetcar Discussion

[skinzfan23]

According to the documents for today's streetcar meeting the contract with CAF for the vehicles is 3/20/27 for delivery to Omaha and the last vehicle by 8/17/27.

Delivery of Vehicles (start of testing in Omaha)
- March 20, 2027 - Veh 3
- Apr 20, 2027 - veh 4
- May 19, 2027 - veh 5
- June 18, 2027 - veh 2
- July 18, 2027 - Veh 1
- Aug 17, 2027 - veh 6

- Integrated testing to start with 3rd car delivery +4months (mid Sept 2027)

Opening likely late 2027 to mid 2028.

https://www.cityofomaha.org/images/omah ... hments.pdf

[Trips1]

According to the documents for today's streetcar meeting the contract with CAF for the vehicles is 3/20/27 for delivery to Omaha and the last vehicle by 8/17/27.

Delivery of Vehicles (start of testing in Omaha)
- March 20, 2027 - Veh 3
- Apr 20, 2027 - veh 4
- May 19, 2027 - veh 5
- June 18, 2027 - veh 2
- July 18, 2027 - Veh 1
- Aug 17, 2027 - veh 6

- Integrated testing to start with 3rd car delivery +4months (mid Sept 2027)

Opening likely late 2027 to mid 2028.

https://www.cityofomaha.org/images/omah ... hments.pdf

They need to push this as fast as possible. Tesla is pushing for a run rate of 2 million Cybercab units by the end of 2026. Nebraska is an autonomous vehicle friendly state and Trumps Vice President Elon, will enact a national standard.

The city/business district could spend $10 million a year to offer door to door rides. Seems like a better solution then $1 Billion+ on something you have to drive to and then walk blocks to use.

[almighty_tuna]

Given how much pushback and waffling the city did over the Lime scooters, I don't see any scenario where autonomous taxis swoop in and usurp the streetcar. And no, this does not seem like a better solution than a streetcar. Hard pass.

[Louie]

Given how much pushback and waffling the city did over the Lime scooters, I don't see any scenario where autonomous taxis swoop in and usurp the streetcar. And no, this does not seem like a better solution than a streetcar. Hard pass.

Agreed, we would still have the same road wear and tear from cybercabs as regular car traffic.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

Even if that were Musk's plan, he won't be able to produce Cybercabs before Trump leaves office again. The Cybertruck was announced in 2019, with Musk claiming production would begin in late 2021. However, the timeline shifted to late 2023 after several delays. The first production units were finally delivered in November 2023—about two years later than planned and four years after the initial announcement. Additionally, the starting price doubled, rising from $40,000 to $80,000. The Tesla Semi was announced in 2017 with plans for 2019 production, but manufacturing didn't begin until 2022. The second Tesla Roadster, also unveiled in 2017, is still nowhere to be seen.

Given that track record, unless something changes dramatically, Tesla won't have its act together in time to 'disrupt' transit with Cybercabs.

[Garrett]

Still waiting on that hyperloop

[GenX]

Seems like a better solution then $1 Billion+ on something you have to drive to and then walk blocks to use.

Where did you get $1 billion+? It’s $300 million. If you expect people to take you seriously, you should probably avoid pulling numbers out of your nether region.

[Dusty]

It doesn't matter the timeline when autonomous vehicles are coming out. Or who is making them. They will come in time.
But they won't replace mass transit. It falls under micro transit, which helps with first/last mile connections. The only disruption it will bring is putting Uber/Lyft drivers out of a job. Carsharing will evolve to being driverless. You don't see people in mass droves giving up their cars now because carsharing is in their neighborhood.

If you want to give people the option to be less car dependent, then you have to build a strong transit network. The streetcar will be the first major step to build that foundation.

[Busguy2010]

I wouldn't give any credit to autonomous cabs. I really don't think anybody even wants that. Call me old school. Elon Musk's track (no pun) record tells me that idea won't affect our streetcar in any way.

[Dundeemaha]

I think in 20-30 years autonomous cabs will have replaced drivers in Uber/Lyft and probably most car rental market share.

But it's not the same service as a streetcar which is meant to extend the distance you would otherwise walk.

[halgy]

I wouldn't give any credit to autonomous cabs. I really don't think anybody even wants that. Call me old school. Elon Musk's track (no pun) record tells me that idea won't affect our streetcar in any way.

Not that may people really want autonomous cabs now, and there will be a big stink when they become widely available. But if they become cheaper or more convenient than the alternatives, then most people will use them. People were wary of rideshare a decade ago, too ("I'm just supposed to get into this stranger's car? I'll be murdered for sure!"), but they got over it real quick when they could do everything through an app.

Regardless, taxis—driverless or otherwise—are not a replacement for the streetcar. In addition to what everyone else has said, people are cheap and the streetcar is free.

[Dusty]

For those of you who get geeked out over streetcars, the next city to open a modern streetcar line is Santa Ana, CA

Also known as the Orange County Streetcar (OC Streetcar).
Construction is almost complete and opens 2025
4.15 miles
10-15 minute headways
10 stops
$579 million

https://www.octa.net/programs-projects/ ... /overview/

[TitosBuritoBarn]

For those of you who get geeked out over streetcars, the next city to open a modern streetcar line is Santa Ana, CA

Also known as the Orange County Streetcar (OC Streetcar).
Construction is almost complete and opens 2025
4.15 miles
10-15 minute headways
10 stops
$579 million

https://www.octa.net/programs-projects/ ... /overview/

I'm excited about this one, mostly because I have an affinity for Greater LA. I think I had heard about it some time ago but only recently learned that they had actually built it a few months ago. It looks like it's having an impact on redevelopment in downtown Santa Ana. It provides good connectivity around the core of Santa Ana and to other regional transporation options while also producing complete streets conversions along the route, adding protected bike lanes and pedestrian safety elements where there weren't any before while reducing traffic lanes.

[Zephyr]

And speaking of new streetcar systems, here are some thoughts on possible Omaha Streetcar extensions and how to plan them:

https://growomaha.com/omaha-streetcar-e ... e-to-next/

[almighty_tuna]

I like the cut of this Eric Miller guy's jib. Someone ought to get him on the forums.

[Athomsfere]

Given how much pushback and waffling the city did over the Lime scooters, I don't see any scenario where autonomous taxis swoop in and usurp the streetcar. And no, this does not seem like a better solution than a streetcar. Hard pass.

Agreed, we would still have the same road wear and tear from cybercabs as regular car traffic.

I'd argue worse.

Batteries are heavy. That means more road wear and pollution from tires (and less emissions).

Also, it brings the average vehicle occupancy to under 1. Where now we have 1.2 - 1.7 as a good estimate for a car / SUV. When a significant part of the miles of a road Taxi are driving to pickup, moving to a more active zone, circling the block to avoid parking...

I also think AVs are much further out than anyone wants us to believe. Waymo and Tesla's funding for AVs needs us to believe they are coming soon. VCs and investors are more likely to give big money for something in 5 years than 20+.
And because TSLA refuses to use things like LIDAR, Tesla will almost certainly be last to the market. AI is misnomer for what we have now, and true AI may still not come for optimistically decades, realistically I don't see true AI this century.

Toyota has a better chance of launching AVs first IMO.

Musk, the moron that he is has aligned himself with President Dingus though, between that and that we Americans always seem to choose the single worst transit plan: I have no doubt they are coming some day. Hopefully cities like Phoenix will help iron out their role as a tiny part of good transit by then, like trains, trams, and bikes.

Miller's article on the other hand is right on. We should be planning the next thing(s) now. Streetcar to CB, BRT, LRT or full on metro systems to South O, North O, and even the depths of heck we call West O. Commuter lines with Lincoln and federal / state grants / funding for other nearby cities to build their transit out to make those commuter lines viable. Securing ROW for maybe even HSR with KC, MSP etc. would be a dream too.

[remline]

HSR with KC, MSP etc. would be a dream too.

Yes, sign me up for HSR to KC!

[Athomsfere]

HSR with KC, MSP etc. would be a dream too.

Yes, sign me up for HSR to KC!

I despise KC and would rather see the MSP / Chicago branches. But an HSR would at least make the getting there and back bearable!

[remline]

I despise KC and would rather see the MSP / Chicago branches. But an HSR would at least make the getting there and back bearable!

As a practical note, KC is about 170 miles from Omaha (as the crow flies). MSP is 290 miles; Chicago is 430 miles. So, a rail connection to KC might be a good place to at least start.

(Besides, you can already take Amtrak directly to Chicago… )

[Doctor Fate]

I found the presentation doc with the list of projects being counted.

https://publicinput.com/Customer/File/F ... c9be357025

I think it's safe to say that The Beam is Project 11 on this list ($75 million). Do we know if 1501 Howard and 1500 S. 18th ($25 million) or any other announced 2024 projects are listed here?

[skinzfan23]

From growomaha:

Construction has started on the streetcar maintenance facility:

[Louie]

Progress!

[strangerthings]

If I was looking to deploy $50-75mm along the route, who do you suggest that I reach out to?

[Busguy2010]

From growomaha:

Construction has started on the streetcar maintenance facility:

This has been one the more exciting aspects of the project for me. Not only does it have to be the coolest part (wires, tracks, streetcars next), it pretty much signifies that there's no going back. Glad to see there's finally some tangible progress begun.

[Busguy2010]

If I was looking to deploy $50-75mm along the route, who do you suggest that I reach out to?

You should be able to find a willing party at Park Ave...

[omahahawk]

From growomaha:

Construction has started on the streetcar maintenance facility:

This has been one the more exciting aspects of the project for me. Not only does it have to be the coolest part (wires, tracks, streetcars next), it pretty much signifies that there's no going back. Glad to see there's finally some tangible progress begun.

That's pretty much exactly what I was thinking. Right now we are currently in the 60-90 percent planning and design stage, probably closer to 90 percent, millions have already been spent on utility relocation not to mention purchase contracts already being signed. I am also guessing track is probably about 6 months away. With ground being broke on a maintenance center is turning back even remotely legit?

[skip]

No way they will be able to cancel the project. IF Stothert gets beat. It will still be May or June until the next person is in office. tens of millions will be spent on progress for this project including the actual payments of the streetcars themselves. It would be a huge waste to stop the project.

Assuming the actual tracks/wires have been ordered already too.

This is something the facebook commenters refuse to realize.

[S.O.Boy]

[omahahawk]

For anyone interested there is a virtual construction update meeting that is going to be held on Wed. 12/04/25 at 12 PM. You can pose questions and register to attend via https://omahastreetcar.org up until 4 p.m. on Dec. 2.

[GenX]

There’s a name for those… they’re called busses

[Busguy2010]

Higher capacity buses. Plus it looks like theres some sort of magnetic drive system that has to be installed under the surface. I cant imagine that being cheap. Although... I could see if these somehow catch on (which I don't think they would), Omaha would be one of the cities to do it. I don't see Dodge ever being an appropriate light rail corridor, but the natural progression of transit is bus -> rapid bus -> BRT -> Light Rail/Subway. I could see this becoming an option if ORBT were ever to surpass the capacity of BRT (I don't think it will). I don't see these ever becoming an alternative to streetcars, the WHOLE point of streetcars being successful IS the tracks

[halgy]

These are basically just longer versions of the trolly busses that some cities already have. The only real advantage of these over normal busses is that they're quieter and less polluting, but I'm not sure if that is worth it for our use cases. If dodge ever does get dense enough to overwhelm the ORBIT, first that means that we've actually kicked TOD and densification to overdrive (which isn't the case yet), and second that we should invest in a proper rail transit system, not some weird intermediate solution.

[Busguy2010]

I don't think we'll ever get to that point, not this lifetime at least. But that thing up there should never be pawned off as a streetcar or light rail.

[Dusty]

The problem with trackless trams is they rely heavily on motion sensors. Think of it like a driverless car. If a car comes too close it shuts down for safety reasons. I'm sure there will always be a car trying pass the train too close. Plus, these are buses that happen to look like streetcars. They don't bring the investment of infill projects along the line like a permanent rail would.

If you want a hybrid tech, I would hold out for Ultra Light Rail (ULR). It's still being tested over in the UK, but could be a game changer. Basically, it's an electric/hydrogen cell bus that runs on a rail. It glides on the rail to use minimal energy and charges at stations. They have emergency wheels that can pop down to come off the rails and drive like a bus.

[strangerthings]

The problem with trackless trams is they rely heavily on motion sensors. Think of it like a driverless car. If a car comes too close it shuts down for safety reasons. I'm sure there will always be a car trying pass the train too close. Plus, these are buses that happen to look like streetcars. They don't bring the investment of infill projects along the line like a permanent rail would.

If you want a hybrid tech, I would hold out for Ultra Light Rail (ULR). It's still being tested over in the UK, but could be a game changer. Basically, it's an electric/hydrogen cell bus that runs on a rail. It glides on the rail to use minimal energy and charges at stations. They have emergency wheels that can pop down to come off the rails and drive like a bus.

The game changer is going to be building transit at Western European and Asian prices.

[Athomsfere]

The game changer is going to be building transit at Western European and Asian prices.

Yes.

Although I doubt we will ever meet parity. We should be able to get a lot closer if we ever start acting like a developed nation and build transit at the scales we need it.

[Garrett]

This may have been mentioned here already, but Eric (Zephyr) on GrowOmaha said that UNMC is trying to finalize their streetcar plans so it can open at the same time as the rest of the system

[Linkin5]

This may have been mentioned here already, but Eric (Zephyr) on GrowOmaha said that UNMC is trying to finalize their streetcar plans so it can open at the same time as the rest of the system

UNMC is going to have their own Streetcar system that connects to the Omaha streetcar?

[Garrett]

This may have been mentioned here already, but Eric (Zephyr) on GrowOmaha said that UNMC is trying to finalize their streetcar plans so it can open at the same time as the rest of the system

UNMC is going to have their own Streetcar system that connects to the Omaha streetcar?

The extension into UNMC’s campus that was pulled along with the north downtown branch

[omahahawk]

This may be an odd question, especially coming from someone who lives nowhere near the streetcar corridor but is still very interested in seeing it happen, but in all reality does anyone think there is any possible chance the streetcar project could or would be stopped at this point if McConnel were elected? I mean with the streetcar maintenance facility currently under construction, utilities relocations, and the Harney and Farnam bridges set to be replaced starting early next year? I suppose he could put it to a public vote. Really though wouldn't this be like staring a home remodeling project, telling the contractor to just to leave it unfinished, and still be liable for the bills?