Omaha Electric Car Discussion

[ozbone69]

Regarding electric vehicles, research currently being done at the Univ. of Neb regarding safety and the weight difference between a standard EV vs gas powered vehicle.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/preliminary- ... 21350.html

[Renovator2559]

I agree the more immediate solution is hybrid vehicles. We should ramping those up while working out the bugs on electric cars. And I'm sure it is quite environmentally unfriendly to mine for lithium ion. And that China is going to do what China is going to do with air pollution. And I'm sure the wind turbine blades will be hard to repurpose. I get that. But there are trade-offs are there not? Is not mining for lithium ion (China is not the only nation with such deposits) and continuing with fossil fuel dependence better overall when transportation is the leading cause of greenhouse gases? And what's unreliable about green energy? Every place gets sun, every place gets wind. It's not odd to you for someone to claim that all green energy is "unreliable" while non-clean energy is not? Is that based on Texas's failures with wind turbines? They didn't think to winterize them so of course they failed when a bad winter storm hit. It's them being cheap and the fossil fuel companies, of which there are many in Texas, trying to blame green energy in general for that failure. Otherwise I'm not sure where you're under the impression they are unreliable and who's becoming bankrupt over it?

Also, cutting production on one electric car is not an indicator of the electric automobile industry. The base Lightning costs $20k more than the base gas powered F-150. There's nothing really of note differentiating the Lightning from the gas-powered F-150 that will create enough demand to pay $20,000 more for a similar product. It's overpriced. Elon Musk realized that to get people into electric cars, they have to be more appealing from a design or cultural standpoint than a gas powered car. Electric cars are not cheap given the state of the technology and ability to acquire materials, so to get people to buy them, they need to be that much more desirable. That's where their success lies. Rivian and Lucid have followed this philosophy. Ford did not when it made the Lightning.

For so many years I was an enthusiast for wind and solar; as time went, I realized these technologies have many flaws. i wanted to like these technologies, I really did.

Wind and solar are not consistent because; solar and wind requires large quantities of battery backups; Solar only works during the day and ideally in the southern part of the US.

Solar cell energy cells drop in efficiency, year after year and people have to buy updatd solar cell technology, generating e-waste.



These “renewables” depend on fossil fuels from cradle to grave in all aspects. The disposal and or recycling of the worn out panels and turbines requires fossil fuel burning.

Batteries are incredibly destructive to produce in that they require large amounts of fossil fuels and mining Co, Ni, Li, etc, ma and again, disposal and recycling are problematic and require more fossil fuels to achieve

Similarly, wind power will create “over 3 million tons per year of unrecyclable plastics from worn-out wind turbine blades,” according to Mills. “When the 20 wind turbines that constitute just one small 100-MW wind farm wear out, decommissioning and trashing them will lead to fourfold more nonrecyclable plastic trash than all the world’s (recyclable) plastic straws combined. There are 1,000 times more wind turbines than that in the world today.”


This table on the different methods of power show how expensive economically solar and wind power sources are, compared to natural gas.



Iowa has embraced putting wind turbines everywhere and that's why Iowa's electric bills are much more expensive than the lower power bills we pay in Nebraska.


https://www.mackinac.org/blog/2023/clea ... isnt-clean

Solar and wind power require obscene amounts of concrete, steel and other rare metals; which all produce a ton of carbon emissions, much more than what a natural gas power plant requires.

"A single 100-megawatt natural gas-fired turbine about as large as a residential house will power 75,000 homes. Replacing that energy output with wind requires 20 wind turbines that occupy around 10 square miles of land, and it also needs “enormous quantities of conventional materials, including concrete, steel, and fiberglass, along with less common materials, including ‘rare earth’ elements such as dysprosium,” Mark Mills, senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, wrote in a 2020 report."






Germany expects First EV Sales Drop in Eight years
https.://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01 ... even-years

I listed nine cars built by five different international automakers with price points ranging from mid-low to six figures. What you said sounds like a canned response that a Toyota dealer would say to get you to buy a Rav4. It's also false.

Toyota and Honda both have been companies that have sided with the consumer, since their inception. In the 70s when the American manufacturers chose to make gas guzzling engines, Toyota and Honda both saw how they could push the standards into making more fuel efficient cars.
Meanwhile the American car manufacturers lobbied to keep gas consumption high.

Toyota also lead the hybrid revolution, while making reliable cars for the people.

Toyota and Honda have been pro-consumer companies since their inception. They have not followed the sway of markets but have always focused on great products, despite what the shareholders want.

The Japanese manufacturing standards of engineering cars to the highest stringent quality standards in Japan, and North America. Leads to manufacturing reliable cars.

Vs the American and European car manufacturers made in Mexico to cut down costs, with cheap chinese parts, has lead to unreliable cars.
Time and time again American manufacturers have treated the American consumer with disrespect, while taking corporate bailouts due to their irresponsible decisions.

Not only that, thee big 3 are responsible for making our cities filled with parking lots everywhere, and the elimination of third places and car sprawl. The Big 3 are also responsible for making public transportation inferior and taking out our beautiful streetcar networks.

It is no wonder why Toyota sells many more cars than the other manufacturers, Toyota being a big proponent in fuel efficiency and hybrids. As well as hydrogen fuel cell, has been leading the way towards fuel efficiency and alternate fuel sources. Toyota is on the path of making even more fuel efficient vehicles that don't include electric cars.

[GenX]

I agree the more immediate solution is hybrid vehicles. We should ramping those up while working out the bugs on electric cars. And I'm sure it is quite environmentally unfriendly to mine for lithium ion. And that China is going to do what China is going to do with air pollution. And I'm sure the wind turbine blades will be hard to repurpose. I get that. But there are trade-offs are there not? Is not mining for lithium ion (China is not the only nation with such deposits) and continuing with fossil fuel dependence better overall when transportation is the leading cause of greenhouse gases? And what's unreliable about green energy? Every place gets sun, every place gets wind. It's not odd to you for someone to claim that all green energy is "unreliable" while non-clean energy is not? Is that based on Texas's failures with wind turbines? They didn't think to winterize them so of course they failed when a bad winter storm hit. It's them being cheap and the fossil fuel companies, of which there are many in Texas, trying to blame green energy in general for that failure. Otherwise I'm not sure where you're under the impression they are unreliable and who's becoming bankrupt over it?

Also, cutting production on one electric car is not an indicator of the electric automobile industry. The base Lightning costs $20k more than the base gas powered F-150. There's nothing really of note differentiating the Lightning from the gas-powered F-150 that will create enough demand to pay $20,000 more for a similar product. It's overpriced. Elon Musk realized that to get people into electric cars, they have to be more appealing from a design or cultural standpoint than a gas powered car. Electric cars are not cheap given the state of the technology and ability to acquire materials, so to get people to buy them, they need to be that much more desirable. That's where their success lies. Rivian and Lucid have followed this philosophy. Ford did not when it made the Lightning.

For so many years I was an enthusiast for wind and solar; as time went, I realized these technologies have many flaws. i wanted to like these technologies, I really did.

Wind and solar are not consistent because; solar and wind requires large quantities of battery backups; Solar only works during the day and ideally in the southern part of the US.

Solar cell energy cells drop in efficiency, year after year and people have to buy updatd solar cell technology, generating e-waste.



These “renewables” depend on fossil fuels from cradle to grave in all aspects. The disposal and or recycling of the worn out panels and turbines requires fossil fuel burning.

Batteries are incredibly destructive to produce in that they require large amounts of fossil fuels and mining Co, Ni, Li, etc, ma and again, disposal and recycling are problematic and require more fossil fuels to achieve

Similarly, wind power will create “over 3 million tons per year of unrecyclable plastics from worn-out wind turbine blades,” according to Mills. “When the 20 wind turbines that constitute just one small 100-MW wind farm wear out, decommissioning and trashing them will lead to fourfold more nonrecyclable plastic trash than all the world’s (recyclable) plastic straws combined. There are 1,000 times more wind turbines than that in the world today.”


This table on the different methods of power show how expensive economically solar and wind power sources are, compared to natural gas.



Iowa has embraced putting wind turbines everywhere and that's why Iowa's electric bills are much more expensive than the lower power bills we pay in Nebraska.


https://www.mackinac.org/blog/2023/clea ... isnt-clean

Solar and wind power require obscene amounts of concrete, steel and other rare metals; which all produce a ton of carbon emissions, much more than what a natural gas power plant requires.

"A single 100-megawatt natural gas-fired turbine about as large as a residential house will power 75,000 homes. Replacing that energy output with wind requires 20 wind turbines that occupy around 10 square miles of land, and it also needs “enormous quantities of conventional materials, including concrete, steel, and fiberglass, along with less common materials, including ‘rare earth’ elements such as dysprosium,” Mark Mills, senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, wrote in a 2020 report."






Germany expects First EV Sales Drop in Eight years
https.://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01 ... even-years

I listed nine cars built by five different international automakers with price points ranging from mid-low to six figures. What you said sounds like a canned response that a Toyota dealer would say to get you to buy a Rav4. It's also false.

Toyota and Honda both have been companies that have sided with the consumer, since their inception. In the 70s when the American manufacturers chose to make gas guzzling engines, Toyota and Honda both saw how they could push the standards into making more fuel efficient cars.
Meanwhile the American car manufacturers lobbied to keep gas consumption high.

Toyota also lead the hybrid revolution, while making reliable cars for the people.

Toyota and Honda have been pro-consumer companies since their inception. They have not followed the sway of markets but have always focused on great products, despite what the shareholders want.

The Japanese manufacturing standards of engineering cars to the highest stringent quality standards in Japan, and North America. Leads to manufacturing reliable cars.

Vs the American and European car manufacturers made in Mexico to cut down costs, with cheap chinese parts, has lead to unreliable cars.
Time and time again American manufacturers have treated the American consumer with disrespect, while taking corporate bailouts due to their irresponsible decisions.

Not only that, thee big 3 are responsible for making our cities filled with parking lots everywhere, and the elimination of third places and car sprawl. The Big 3 are also responsible for making public transportation inferior and taking out our beautiful streetcar networks.

It is no wonder why Toyota sells many more cars than the other manufacturers, Toyota being a big proponent in fuel efficiency and hybrids. As well as hydrogen fuel cell, has been leading the way towards fuel efficiency and alternate fuel sources. Toyota is on the path of making even more fuel efficient vehicles that don't include electric cars.

Your take on renewable energy and electric vehicles is like looking through a rear-view mirror while driving forward. Let's get real about hybrids - they're just a stepping stone to the real deal, which is fully electric vehicles. And on lithium mining, it's not ideal, but it's a lesser evil compared to the environmental havoc wreaked by fossil fuels.

Wind turbine blades being hard to recycle? We're in the era of innovation, not resignation. The energy sector is working on it, unlike fossil fuels that have had their chance and blew it. Green energy unreliable? That's an outdated tune. Modern storage solutions have turned this argument on its head.

Economics of renewables versus natural gas? Sure, there's an upfront cost, but what about the long-term environmental savings? Plus, renewable tech is getting cheaper by the day. And let's not oversimplify Iowa's electric bills; there's more to energy economics than just the source.

EVs being overpriced? It's the early stage of a tech revolution, prices drop as the market matures. Remember the first cell phones?

Now, about Toyota and Honda's consumer focus - hats off for their fuel efficiency, but resting on past laurels won't drive us into the future. Electric is where it's at, and we’re still in the early stages, much like where gas powered were in their early days. There were problems at the start with ICE cars: fires, range, few stations, but they eventually got it right instead of just abandoning it.

In short, while you're busy pointing out every bump in the road, the rest of us are building a highway to the future. It's high time to look ahead, not in the rear-view mirror.

[Renovator2559]

In an idealistic world, electric cars would be the so called clean and green vehicles but in reality, electric cars simply require plenty of pollution and fossil fuels to be manufactured and the electricity comes from fossil fuels. Electric vehicles require large giant lithium batteries which are highly toxic and damaging for the environment.

China loves nothing more than for them to pollute and release tons of carbon emissions, as the west is placated in going "green" at the expense of giving China a much more prosper future.

There is no such thing as free lunch, in having to layout a duplicate infrastructure of electric fueling stations that will never be as convenient as gas or hydrogen fuel cell.

Our economies are taking a hit already having to support a parallel infrastructure that is subsidized all for the sake of appeasing China and their lucrative mining industry. Our economies are in the verge of collapse all because we want to support technologies like electric vehicles that don't work or is sustainable in the long term.

There is no such thing as Moore's law for when it comes to lithium batteries, lithium batteries will always have a limit on how much energy lithium batteries can store and any technology that heavily relies on lithium batteries; is primed for failure.

Unrealizable and e-waste generating solar and wind turbines are not environmentally friendly solutions either.

[GenX]

Lithium problem solved.

Game-changing Lithium deposit unearthed in Nevada-Oregon border region

https://m.economictimes.com/news/new-up ... 685451.cms

[Doctor Fate]

There is no such thing as Moore's law for when it comes to lithium batteries, lithium batteries will always have a limit on how much energy lithium batteries can store and any technology that heavily relies on lithium batteries; is primed for failure.

Your comment that I bolded is only true with current technology. Quantum computing and qubits will create massive leaps in lithium battery technology. More energy and more range, with smaller battery sizes.

[Doctor Fate]

Toyota is on the path of making even more fuel efficient vehicles that don't include electric cars.

Wasn't it just announced that Toyota was investing $1.3 billion in their Kentucky plant to build the new 3 row SUV they announced as well as new battery packs....

[Trips1]

Toyota is on the path of making even more fuel efficient vehicles that don't include electric cars.

Wasn't it just announced that Toyota was investing $1.3 billion in their Kentucky plant to build the new 3 row SUV they announced as well as new battery packs....

It was $1.3 billion for Toyota in Kentucky with the batteries coming from a different state. Nebraska, Iowa, Wyoming and Montana are the only states with $0 of $500 billion+ in clean energy investments. Investments include the production of batteries, EVs, Heat Pumps, Hydrogen, Nuclear, Solar, and Offshore Wind.

https://www.energy.gov/invest

[Doctor Fate]

Toyota is on the path of making even more fuel efficient vehicles that don't include electric cars.

Wasn't it just announced that Toyota was investing $1.3 billion in their Kentucky plant to build the new 3 row SUV they announced as well as new battery packs....

It was $1.3 billion for Toyota in Kentucky with the batteries coming from a different state. Nebraska, Iowa, Wyoming and Montana are the only states with $0 of $500 billion+ in clean energy investments. Investments include the production of batteries, EVs, Heat Pumps, Hydrogen, Nuclear, Solar, and Offshore Wind.

https://www.energy.gov/invest

I thought the batteries would assembled there too.

https://apnews.com/article/toyota-inves ... 6f3d9fe215

Toyota says it will invest $1.3 billion at its huge factory complex in Georgetown, Kentucky, in part so it can build an all-new three-row electric SUV to be sold in the U.S.

The company says the money will help with future electric vehicle production, including the addition of a line to assemble battery cells into packs for other EVs.

[Renovator2559]

There is no such thing as Moore's law for when it comes to lithium batteries, lithium batteries will always have a limit on how much energy lithium batteries can store and any technology that heavily relies on lithium batteries; is primed for failure.

Your comment that I bolded is only true with current technology. Quantum computing and qubits will create massive leaps in lithium battery technology. More energy and more range, with smaller battery sizes.

While that is an idealistic thought; the reality is, lithium batteries require plenty of fossil emitting processes to mine and produce and the current battery technology is flawed.

Electric Vehicles are about to get much more expensive to own in London, with the increase in 1800% parking price. Because the people realize that electric vehicles are a scam. It is a lie that electric vehicles are "green", which they are not; they are just another tactic of consumerism and for oil companies to push the blame on the plebs, while the corporate elite guzzle in their private jets emmitting high carbon emissions.



General Motors has seen the writing on the wall and are no longer going to push the EV only strategy, looks like they are only going to build Hybrids. Toyota was right yet again.

https://www.cbtnews.com/general-motors- ... -s-market/

[Doctor Fate]

There is no such thing as Moore's law for when it comes to lithium batteries, lithium batteries will always have a limit on how much energy lithium batteries can store and any technology that heavily relies on lithium batteries; is primed for failure.

Your comment that I bolded is only true with current technology. Quantum computing and qubits will create massive leaps in lithium battery technology. More energy and more range, with smaller battery sizes.

While that is an idealistic thought; the reality is, lithium batteries require plenty of fossil emitting processes to mine and produce and the current battery technology is flawed.

It's not an idealistic thought. It's science. Quantum computing is the future and the reality you are referring to (in bold above) is the present.

General Motors has seen the writing on the wall and are no longer going to push the EV only strategy, looks like they are only going to build Hybrids. Toyota was right yet again.

https://www.cbtnews.com/general-motors- ... -s-market/

GM said they are only building hybrids? It actually sounds like, from the article you posted, that they are making EVs AND going to start selling hybrids in the US.

[Trips1]

General Motors has seen the writing on the wall and are no longer going to push the EV only strategy, looks like they are only going to build Hybrids. Toyota was right yet again.

https://www.cbtnews.com/general-motors- ... -s-market/

GM is going to Hybrids because they can't get their battery modules right. They are so far behind and have to many obstacles, that I think they need to go all in on gas vehicles and plan on closing down in 10 years.

At the current rate, in 10 years there will be Tesla, Ford, and BYD as the Big 3. Companies like GM, Toyota, and Stellantis will be gone.

[halgy]

Well I'm really enjoying my GM EV (a Bolt EUV). It isn't perfect, but neither was the Ford Fusion I had before it. There are some quirks to get used to, but that is what it is to be a relatively early adopter (and to get the cheapest EV on the market). It is well worth it for the convenience of charging at work for free and at home for 1/4 the cost of gas. And even as the cheapest alternative the instant torque is lovely.

And GM is definitely not canceling EVs. The Equinox EV is rolling out this year, and the lower-trim models will be at a sweet spot in the market (<$40k, 300+ miles range, decent space). That is in addition to the Blazer EV, Cadillac EV, and Silverado EV. There are growing pains, but again that is bound to happen with new technology.

[Doctor Fate]

Well I'm really enjoying my GM EV (a Bolt EUV). It isn't perfect, but neither was the Ford Fusion I had before it. There are some quirks to get used to, but that is what it is to be a relatively early adopter (and to get the cheapest EV on the market). It is well worth it for the convenience of charging at work for free and at home for 1/4 the cost of gas. And even as the cheapest alternative the instant torque is lovely.

I had a friend who had a Mercedes AMG G63 and was spending like $800/month in gas (they were driving a lot). They traded it in for a Model X Plaid and not only lowered their monthly payment, but charging solely at home they were only paying an additional $106/month on their electric bill. Plus it was significantly quicker 0-60 than the G-Wagon and handled better. They also spend way less on maintenance than any of the gas cars they've owned.

[Renovator2559]

I had a friend who had a Mercedes AMG G63 and was spending like $800/month in gas (they were driving a lot).

Modern Mercedes, Audi, BMW have never been known to be reliable. They start falling apart in a matter of years. It's no wonder why they depreciate very fast, to a very low price.

The owner should know the frequent high maintenance costs and their gas guzzling engine. The owner should cough up the money and not complain. The owner should know that their precious time will be spent frequently at the service center.

[Doctor Fate]

I had a friend who had a Mercedes AMG G63 and was spending like $800/month in gas (they were driving a lot).

Modern Mercedes, Audi, BMW have never been known to be reliable. They start falling apart in a matter of years. It's no wonder why they depreciate very fast, to a very low price.

The owner should know the frequent high maintenance costs and their gas guzzling engine. The owner should cough up the money and not complain. The owner should know that their precious time will be spent frequently at the service center.

He had no complaints and I never said he did. I was just stating numeric facts. He got those cars because they are high performance cars. He also had a McLaren 570s, a Jeep Trackhawk, and a Porsche 911 992 4S among others. For the record none of these cars had mechanical problems, nor did I say they did. It was simply a comparison between routine maintenance (ie. oil changes, engine care, etc) and gas/charging costs.

He sold his AMG G63, AMG E63 S, Trackhawk, McLaren, and his Porsche 911 992 and made a total of $45K. For the record, his Porsche never had any issues. His wife had a fully loaded Toyota Grand Highlander and got rid of it after 6 weeks because it had more problems than their Land Rover Discovery. They replaced it with an Audi e-Tron, which they’ve had for 2 years now.

[Renovator2559]

As expected, high depreciating assets. The market decides their worth and it's no wonder why the reliability of those cars are at the bottom of reliability.

So he rotated cars and didn't use a single daily driver? Not the best example to claim, "no mechanical issues".

As for Lexus/Toyota, it's well known that this manufacturer is at the top of reliability. I'd like to see any of those other cars last past 500k miles to 1 miles.
Highlander problems are unheard off.

[Doctor Fate]

As expected, high depreciating assets. The market decides their worth and it's no wonder why the reliability of those cars are at the bottom of reliability.

So he rotated cars and didn't use a single daily driver? Not the best example to claim, "no mechanical issues".

As for Lexus/Toyota, it's well known that this manufacturer is at the top of reliability. I'd like to see any of those other cars last past 500k miles to 1 miles.
Highlander problems are unheard off.

AMG E63S was his daily for 2.5 years and he put 80K miles on it. Got it for $88K and sold it for $102K.

AMG CLA 45 was his daily for 1.5 years and put 40K miles on it. Got it for $52K and sold it for $45K.

Jeep Trackhawk was his daily for a year and put 20K miles on it. Got it for $71K and sold it for $86K.

And he drove all these cars pretty hard. The super cars he used at the track.

It’s not unheard of for Highlanders to have issues and I don’t know a single person whose Toyota has lasted over 250K miles. My wife’s dad and his family had 3 Toyotas. Their 2011 (regular) Highlander they got brand new and it lasted 12 years and 180K miles before it needed a new transmission. They replaced it with an Ioniq 5. They also have a Sequoia and a Tundra TRD Pro. Sequoia has been great and is at over 200K miles , but the Tundra has been getting work done the last two times we were there. You like Toyota, that’s great. I had a Corolla awhile ago and it was a good car. No major issue. Toyota is a nice brand.

[S.O.Boy]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/09/busi ... share.html

Tesla’s once-commanding share of the market for electric vehicles in the United States slipped below 50 percent in the second quarter of the year even as sales of battery-powered cars surged to a record, according to new estimates published Tuesday by a research firm.

Tesla accounted for 49.7 percent of electric vehicles sales from April through June, down from 59.3 percent a year earlier as the company led by Elon Musk lost ground to General Motors, Ford Motor, Hyundai and Kia, the research firm, Cox Automotive said. It was the first time the company’s market share fell below 50 percent in a quarter, according to Cox. The firm, a leading auto industry researcher, estimates market share based on registrations, company reports and other data.

The numbers are the latest sign that Tesla is losing its dominance in a market it in effect created in 2012 when it introduced the Model S sedan. Before that car, very few electric vehicles were sold in the United States.

Overall, U.S. electric vehicle sales climbed 11.3 percent from a year earlier, suggesting that consumer demand for the technology remains healthy even if sales are no longer growing at more than 40 percent a year as they were last year. Americans bought or leased more than 330,000 electric cars and light trucks during the quarter, accounting for 8 percent of all new cars sold or leased in the three-month period. A year earlier, electric vehicles accounted for 7.2 percent of the market, Cox said.

A few years ago Tesla didn’t have many competitors, and pretty much no other company could match its cars’ driving range on a full charge or acceleration. But established carmakers have been introducing electric vehicles that can travel 300 miles or more, equaling and sometimes exceeding the capabilities of Tesla’s cars.

There are well over 100 electric models available in the United States, according to a separate report published Tuesday by the Alliance for Automotive Innovation, an industry group. Prices have fallen as the supply and variety of models have increased, making it possible for more people to afford one.

Intense competition “is leading to continued price pressure, helping push E.V. adoption slowly higher,” Stephanie Valdez Streaty, director of industry insights at Cox, said in a statement.


Our business coverage. Times journalists are not allowed to have any direct financial stake in companies they cover.

Here’s more on our standards and practices.
Many consumers are now buying electric cars from established carmakers like BMW or Ford, which have large dealer networks that can provide maintenance and repairs. Tesla sells cars online and many consumers have said that it can be hard to get their cars repaired at the company’s relatively small network of service centers.

Tesla sales have also suffered from an aging lineup. Its best-selling vehicle, the Model Y, went on sale in 2020, making it dated by industry standards. Hyundai and its sister company, Kia, offer more electric models than Tesla, with competitive prices and newer designs.

[Renovator2559]

AMG E63S was his daily for 2.5 years and he put 80K miles on it. Got it for $88K and sold it for $102K.

AMG CLA 45 was his daily for 1.5 years and put 40K miles on it. Got it for $52K and sold it for $45K.

Jeep Trackhawk was his daily for a year and put 20K miles on it. Got it for $71K and sold it for $86K.

And he drove all these cars pretty hard. The super cars he used at the track.

Low mileage and low year ownership, this doesn't mean anything, none of these cars are past 100k.

You do understand that Lexus exists as the higher trim of Toyota, it's not just Toyota.

I've always liked things that last, I'm willing to pay a premium on things that last, and won't waste my time when they break down. I don't like objects that are disposable like disposable cars. Anything that breaks I'll never buy again.

Lexus has been the brand that I buy for a while and I've had nothing but good experiences, just basic maintainance is all that is needed, I just don't see a reason to move away from the reliability king into something much less reliable, just to "impress" others. Familiy and friends that own Toyota or Lexus have nothing but great comments.

I find it very odd that a "friend" knows every car model, transaction, down to the mileage of the cars the other "friend" sells over time. You are the owner of these cars and the "friend" implied, is yourself. Quite interesting

[Stan]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/09/busi ... share.html

If I had the means to buy a Tesla maybe 4 years ago, I would have. Despite Musk showing his |expletive| in recent times, I still believe they are likely led by more competent people like their CFO Zach Kirkhorn. Their charging network has been the gold standard while their QC has been widely noted as inadequate. It makes complete sense that as more EVs become available, their market share will shrink. I'm not in the market for a new car for another 4 years and it will likely be an EV rather than my current ICE and by then, there will be so many new models available and a really decent used market. I'd likely go with a Mustang Mach-e or Ioniq 5 or even the VW ID.Buzz by then. EDIT TO ADD: Forgot about the new Rivian models coming in the next few years. If the company continues to exist, the R2 looks like it'd fit my needs.

[Doctor Fate]

Low mileage and low year ownership, this doesn't mean anything, none of these cars are past 100k.

lol

You do understand that Lexus exists as the higher trim of Toyota, it's not just Toyota.

Lexus has been the brand that I buy for a while and I've had nothing but good experiences, just basic maintainance is all that is needed, I just don't see a reason to move away from the reliability king into something much less reliable, just to "impress" others. Familiy and friends that own Toyota or Lexus have nothing but great comments.

lol yes. My dad has had a Lexus as his daily for a decade. Lexus is a nice half-step above Toyota. All of the Japanese "luxury" brands (Acura, Infiniti, Lexus) are nice.

I find it very odd that a "friend" knows every car model, transaction, down to the mileage of the cars the other "friend" sells over time. You are the owner of these cars and the "friend" implied, is yourself. Quite interesting

Your power of deduction and reasoning never cease to impress me. Quite interesting.

[Doctor Fate]

I'm not in the market for a new car for another 4 years and it will likely be an EV rather than my current ICE and by then, there will be so many new models available and a really decent used market. I'd likely go with a Mustang Mach-e or Ioniq 5 or even the VW ID.Buzz by then.

I'm in the same boat, though I have a 2023 hybrid right now. Model Y Performance, Mustang Mach-e GT, Ioniq 5 N, or Rivian R2S is what I'm looking to get in a couple years.

[meliketrains]

My next car will be electric, once I run my current shitbox into the ground, but boy do I wish they didn't look so bad. Would it be that hard for one of these companies to produce something that didn't look like it was designed in a 1960s Twilight Zone writer's room? Give me something akin to the Dodge Daytona, louvers and all, and I'm yours.

[Stan]

My next car will be electric, once I run my current shitbox into the ground, but boy do I wish they didn't look so bad. Would it be that hard for one of these companies to produce something that didn't look like it was designed in a 1960s Twilight Zone writer's room? Give me something akin to the Dodge Daytona, louvers and all, and I'm yours.

?
https://www.dodge.com/next-gen-charger.html

[meliketrains]

My next car will be electric, once I run my current shitbox into the ground, but boy do I wish they didn't look so bad. Would it be that hard for one of these companies to produce something that didn't look like it was designed in a 1960s Twilight Zone writer's room? Give me something akin to the Dodge Daytona, louvers and all, and I'm yours.

?
https://www.dodge.com/next-gen-charger.html

Oh, sweet! This is the first time I've seen this. I'm not a huuuuge fan of the more aggressive look this has compared to the original Daytonas, but I still prefer this to anything I've seen out of the other brands.

[Stargazer]

Not sure how one would think the Model 3 looks bad.. I love my '24 (also owned an '18). Photo from southern Indiana site where I captured solar eclipse shortly after.



In other news, the new Tesla service center west of the Mid America Center is having a grand opening event on July 19th. We'll finally have a show room in the area.. and you can take test drives (although Iowa only allows leasing from within the state).

[Louie]

Not sure how one would think the Model 3 looks bad

I think the looks bad was directed at the cybertruck. And rightfully so. The other tesla models look fine to me.

[Stargazer]

More details on new service center grand opening. The showroom will have a full complement of available consumer vehicles.

[Big E]

Mea culpa...

It turns out EVs - especially Cybertrucks - DO seem to have a nasty habit of blowing the |expletive| up once packed with explosives and ignited while the bomber is still inside.

Please consider this before buying your next vehicle.

[meliketrains]

I think the Rivian R3 was made, specifically, for me. I don't care for most cars at all, but once I saw the R3, I realized this was because all other cars were inherently lesser and therefore not worth my attention. Look at this thing. It's like a Honda City Mk2 Turbo back from the dead.

[Linkin5]

If you’re still owning a Tesla at this point, I’m judging you pretty hard.

[GenX]

If you’re still owning a Tesla at this point, I’m judging you pretty hard.

Buying, sure. Owning may simply be a fact of not being able to unload it.

[Uffda]

Tesla Sales Are Tanking Across The World
Blame the Musk Effect, declining EV subsidies or all of the above. But Tesla's global sales are off to a very bad start for 2025.


https://insideevs.com/news/750076/tesla ... -globally/

[ita]

Tesla Sales Are Tanking Across The World

Good.

[GenX]

Tesla Sales Are Tanking Across The World
Blame the Musk Effect, declining EV subsidies or all of the above. But Tesla's global sales are off to a very bad start for 2025.


https://insideevs.com/news/750076/tesla ... -globally/

Turns out nobody wants a swasticar…

[Stan]

If you’re still owning a Tesla at this point, I’m judging you pretty hard.

I don't quite understand the hate for people that are driving Tesla's except for the Cybertruck. Musk is awful but he's not Tesla. There are a lot of American workers that have helped build that company. Musk simply provided the funds early on and reaps the benefits. Are we also judging Volkswagen, Porsche, Audi, Toyota, and Nissan owners? What about Henry Ford being an antisemite?

[Athomsfere]

Tesla Sales Are Tanking Across The World
Blame the Musk Effect, declining EV subsidies or all of the above. But Tesla's global sales are off to a very bad start for 2025.


https://insideevs.com/news/750076/tesla ... -globally/

Turns out nobody wants a swasticar…

I'm waiting for the inevitable at this point. The deep right to come out and complain about how the libs killed the electric car / Tesla.

[Athomsfere]

If you’re still owning a Tesla at this point, I’m judging you pretty hard.

I don't quite understand the hate for people that are driving Tesla's except for the Cybertruck. Musk is awful but he's not Tesla. There are a lot of American workers that have helped build that company. Musk simply provided the funds early on and reaps the benefits. Are we also judging Volkswagen, Porsche, Audi, Toyota, and Nissan owners? What about Henry Ford being an antisemite?

For me:

Musk / Tesla acted like it was some brand new idea instead of one that had been tried and failed multiple times. The electric car is basically as old as the car.

Sure, slap some tech, use better batteries. Whatever.

I dislike electric cars for all the same reasons I dislike cars. If you car about the environment, take the train. Oh wait. We live in a country that sold out our transit for the worst possible mode of transit to become the defacto mode, and usually only choice.

And to add insult to injury: Instead of taking some lessons from where we have gone wrong, we are doubling down to make EVs worse. Like the new Hummer.

Also, man I hate being in a Tesla. It's like Apple and Fisher-Price had a baby, and the baby only managed to inherit the worst traits of each parent. Proprietary connectors, barren surfaces, settings hidden instead of buttons / switches for critical and frequent tasks, and stuff done weird just for the sake of being different.

The Cybertruck is really just peak Tesla. Over promising, under delivering. Quality / fitment issues. Manufacturing issues. And its not like they couldn't have looked at say DMC to predict these issues.

AND THEN there is their damn valuations on stock.

[Linkin5]

If you’re still owning a Tesla at this point, I’m judging you pretty hard.

I don't quite understand the hate for people that are driving Tesla's except for the Cybertruck. Musk is awful but he's not Tesla. There are a lot of American workers that have helped build that company. Musk simply provided the funds early on and reaps the benefits. Are we also judging Volkswagen, Porsche, Audi, Toyota, and Nissan owners? What about Henry Ford being an antisemite?

Musk IS Tesla now, he owns about 12% of the stock, more than any individual or institutional investor, and colluded with the board to get a $56 billion pay package last year.

Do I judge Volkswagen, Porsche, Audi, Toyota, and Nissan owners the same way? No. That was 80 years ago, they are completely different companies now with completely different leadership, and they are not actively sabotaging my country’s government.

So if you still want to own a Tesla go for it, it’s a free country for now, but don’t expect me or a lot of other people to like it.