The Stitch (30th & Dodge)

[ita]

This was reported on Grow Omaha's last newsletter, but the TAP report was published. It was for the area north of 30th Street and Dodge Street intersection where I-480 ends. Here's the report: https://ulidigitalmarketing.blob.core.w ... 25_NEB.pdf

[Garrett]

Well, it's a bit of a mixed bag of good ideas and some... more questionable ones. I'm rather whelmed by the vision of the development itself, and question a few of the choices made such as the townhomes right next to the new ramp, but it's also an improvement and not necessarily a site where I'd expect anything show stopping. 500 apartments with 240 affordable units is a nice ratio.

The proposals for street changes are fairly bold, particularly the conversion of Dodge Street to a boulevard style road, pedestrianization of Douglas Street, and the possibility of 30th street being reconstructed to have transit lanes. I don't really see the point of the roundabout, especially if they want to convert Turner Blvd and Park Av to two-way streets

[Jins123]

Well, it's a bit of a mixed bag of good ideas and some... more questionable ones. I'm rather whelmed by the vision of the development itself, and question a few of the choices made such as the townhomes right next to the new ramp, but it's also an improvement and not necessarily a site where I'd expect anything show stopping. 500 apartments with 240 affordable units is a nice ratio.

The proposals for street changes are fairly bold, particularly the conversion of Dodge Street to a boulevard style road, pedestrianization of Douglas Street, and the possibility of 30th street being reconstructed to have transit lanes. I don't really see the point of the roundabout, especially if they want to convert Turner Blvd and Park Av to two-way streets

Noooo! Not a roundabout! Love suburban planning ideas for the middle of the city :/

[almighty_tuna]

Noooo! Not a roundabout! Love suburban planning ideas for the middle of the city :/

How is a roundabout/traffic circle a suburban planning concept?? I mean, it's not, but I'm interested in hearing how you came to that conclusion.

[Jins123]

Noooo! Not a roundabout! Love suburban planning ideas for the middle of the city :/

How is a roundabout/traffic circle a suburban planning concept?? I mean, it's not, but I'm interested in hearing how you came to that conclusion.

I guess when I hear roundabouts and where I see most roundabouts it’s in new suburban neighborhoods. Is where I’m coming from with that comment

[riceweb]

It seems like a lot of moving parts, that are all fairly expensive, when simpler alternatives exist.

I do agree that the offramp/onramp there is completely unnecessary. Maybe just take them out and extend 29th St North to connect with 28th Plaza and clear the area for redevelopment? I'm not even sure why 30th St is four-laned in that stretch. Give it a road diet.

[Garrett]

Noooo! Not a roundabout! Love suburban planning ideas for the middle of the city :/

How is a roundabout/traffic circle a suburban planning concept?? I mean, it's not, but I'm interested in hearing how you came to that conclusion.

I guess when I hear roundabouts and where I see most roundabouts it’s in new suburban neighborhoods. Is where I’m coming from with that comment

You mostly see them there because suburban neighborhoods are the main places we build new street networks. There are a bunch of famous roundabouts in very urban areas, such as Columbus Circle in New York or Place Charles de Gaulle (Arc de Triomphe) in Paris. You can make pretty solid urban roundabout, but this isn't really it.

[Jins123]

Noooo! Not a roundabout! Love suburban planning ideas for the middle of the city :/

How is a roundabout/traffic circle a suburban planning concept?? I mean, it's not, but I'm interested in hearing how you came to that conclusion.

I guess when I hear roundabouts and where I see most roundabouts it’s in new suburban neighborhoods. Is where I’m coming from with that comment

You mostly see them there because suburban neighborhoods are the main places we build new street networks. There are a bunch of famous roundabouts in very urban areas, such as Columbus Circle in New York or Place Charles de Gaulle (Arc de Triomphe) in Paris. You can make pretty solid urban roundabout, but this isn't really it.

Okay! I just googled the Columbus Circle, very cool looking. Thanks for that Garrett, loving the dialogue here

[skinzfan23]

There is also the roundabout on Creighton's campus (prob the nicest looking one in the city)

[ita]

It seems like a lot of moving parts, that are all fairly expensive, when simpler alternatives exist.

I do agree that the offramp/onramp there is completely unnecessary. Maybe just take them out and extend 29th St North to connect with 28th Plaza and clear the area for redevelopment? I'm not even sure why 30th St is four-laned in that stretch. Give it a road diet.

Regarding 30th Street, see page 18. They have recommendations about improving it, including reducing it to two to three vehicular lanes, including bus lanes and protected bike lanes.

[Garrett]

Sidebar, since this isn't exactly Turner Park East, perhaps we could have a new discussion thread for "The Stitch (30th & Dodge)"?

[ita]

Sidebar, since this isn't exactly Turner Park East, perhaps we could have a new discussion thread for "The Stitch (30th & Dodge)"?

[TitosBuritoBarn]

This is a nice surprise, even if it's not a grand proposal. I figured NDOT would try to hold on to this land forever, just in case they run out of unnecessary highway expansions elsewhere and feel compelled to revisit extending I-480 west at some point.

You mostly see them there because suburban neighborhoods are the main places we build new street networks. There are a bunch of famous roundabouts in very urban areas, such as Columbus Circle in New York or Place Charles de Gaulle (Arc de Triomphe) in Paris. You can make pretty solid urban roundabout, but this isn't really it.

Okay! I just googled the Columbus Circle, very cool looking. Thanks for that Garrett, loving the dialogue here

What would absolutely make my year is if NDOT would integrate the off-ramps from US-75/I-480 into the proposed roundabout like Plaça de les Drassanes in Barcelona. Shown below, the inner-most lanes spiraling upward are the off-ramps. Behind the black van that is following a white van is a tunnel that leads under the roundabout to the highway:

[ita]

There are definitely some things I would change with the plan, but I am glad civic leaders are taking this seriously as it was one of the identified areas of potential development the Chamber's urban core plan. I prefer the more standard grid layout in the urban core plan, but if the roundabout is utilized I would just omit the townhomes and the additional street around the northern apartment building. Maybe just one access road south of that building and north of the senior facility. The roundabout, generally, seems like an unnecessary use of land, as stated by another poster above, just to incorporate public art (I don't really see other justification, especially when Dodge would likely remain the state it's currently in). Again, glad they worked on this to get the ball rolling and identifying next steps.

[GrowUpFrances]

That Barcelona roundabout is an awesome concept!

[almighty_tuna]

Noooo! Not a roundabout! Love suburban planning ideas for the middle of the city :/

How is a roundabout/traffic circle a suburban planning concept?? I mean, it's not, but I'm interested in hearing how you came to that conclusion.

I guess when I hear roundabouts and where I see most roundabouts it’s in new suburban neighborhoods. Is where I’m coming from with that comment

You mostly see them there because suburban neighborhoods are the main places we build new street networks. There are a bunch of famous roundabouts in very urban areas, such as Columbus Circle in New York or Place Charles de Gaulle (Arc de Triomphe) in Paris. You can make pretty solid urban roundabout, but this isn't really it.

Okay! I just googled the Columbus Circle, very cool looking. Thanks for that Garrett, loving the dialogue here

DuPont Circle in DC and Arc de Triomph (as Garret mentioned) are two beautiful examples. They can truly be a gorgeous centerpiece of an urban neighborhood.

[F0R_L1F3]

Some of the concepts are interesting such as the roundabout but this inches closer to a reality. It'll be awesome when they get the steps off the ground and continue to move forward with momentum. I mean, even a plan like this will help push Omaha into a better direction. Working to fill in those empty hills and redeveloping broken highway systems, it'll be awesome when it all comes to life.

[Mapguy]

I love the concept. I think this might be one of those projects where the city throws a larger incentive than the minimum because it is kind of high risk---being north of Dodge kind of separates this from midtown crossing.

I could see 2 or even 3 different developers being needed to finance the project in conjunction with the city acquiring the land and re-platting it and doing site prep.

While 1 developer could do this like at the crossroads mall project----i think it would happen faster if it was parsed out with a platted grid to multiple groups.

[Big E]

Arc de Triomph (as Garret mentioned) are two beautiful examples.

Not a fan. My family won a trip on a game show and we got stuck driving around it in circles. We are actually still there.

[Garrett]

Rezoning request in front of the planning board for 3002 Dodge St (small retail building with Sprint) from GC to TOD-MX-1 by Intentional Endeavors LLC. Might be something starting to move here.

[locoluke]

Nebraska Receives $5.15 Million in Federal Transportation Grants to Accelerate Eastern Nebraska Projects

The second $1 million grant will focus on “The Stitch,” a roughly 20-acre parcel of state-owned land near the I-480 and Dodge Street interchange in Omaha. The grant will evaluate the feasibility of redeveloping the property and using a combination of public and private investment.

[meliketrains]

Only tangentially related to the "Stitch" area, but on the other side of Dodge, I'd really love to see some infill over the highway. Part of the original plans for this area included some nice lids added to I480, and while there's been several plans floated around by the City and various developers over the years, none have come to fruition. In my opinion, one of the reasons Midtown underperformed so badly was because it was completely disconnected from Downtown. It was basically surrounded on 2 sides by highway, which isn't a great conduit for walkability and comfort.

With the streetcar arriving next year (hopefully) and incremental improvements happening with ORBT, I think it's critical this area receives some revitalization. Apologies for the AI slop, but here is a quick image of what the area could theoretically look like. Disregard the random lakes it decided to add, and the park area just west of the infill could probably be replaced with more infill rather than another park. Though I'm never against more park space.

[InTheRoom]

I mean I like the idea of the 'lid' just as much as anyone, but if it happened it would just be a park. There's no way we could (or would) build something strong enough to support actual buildings. Bracketed on each side of 480 with development? Absolutely. But the lid itself would basically have to be just "another park."

[meliketrains]

I mean I like the idea of the 'lid' just as much as anyone, but if it happened it would just be a park. There's no way we could (or would) build something strong enough to support actual buildings. Bracketed on each side of 480 with development? Absolutely. But the lid itself would basically have to be just "another park."

Of course we can. Hudson Yards holds massive skyscrapers and was built on top of a lid over an active railyard. The railyard didn't even shut down while they were building it. Truly a marvel of engineering. Building some medium density infill over a highway is actually pretty straightforward from an engineering perspective, and to make the project economically feasible, you actually kind of have to. Pure park is just pure obligation, whereas businesses and residences can generate tax.

[OracleOfOmaha]

I mean I like the idea of the 'lid' just as much as anyone, but if it happened it would just be a park. There's no way we could (or would) build something strong enough to support actual buildings. Bracketed on each side of 480 with development? Absolutely. But the lid itself would basically have to be just "another park."

Of course we can. Hudson Yards holds massive skyscrapers and was built on top of a lid over an active railyard. The railyard didn't even shut down while they were building it. Truly a marvel of engineering. Building some medium density infill over a highway is actually pretty straightforward from an engineering perspective, and to make the project economically feasible, you actually kind of have to. Pure park is just pure obligation, whereas businesses and residences can generate tax.

The tax generated by a couple 4 over 1's will not come close to covering the cost of added structure needed on the cap. The proportional cost of capping with a park vs multi ton buildings is staggering. Best we can hope for is a park cap. That is still a pipe dream and would most likely require federal funding to pull off.

[meliketrains]

I mean I like the idea of the 'lid' just as much as anyone, but if it happened it would just be a park. There's no way we could (or would) build something strong enough to support actual buildings. Bracketed on each side of 480 with development? Absolutely. But the lid itself would basically have to be just "another park."

Of course we can. Hudson Yards holds massive skyscrapers and was built on top of a lid over an active railyard. The railyard didn't even shut down while they were building it. Truly a marvel of engineering. Building some medium density infill over a highway is actually pretty straightforward from an engineering perspective, and to make the project economically feasible, you actually kind of have to. Pure park is just pure obligation, whereas businesses and residences can generate tax.

The tax generated by a couple 4 over 1's will not come close to covering the cost of added structure needed on the cap. The proportional cost of capping with a park vs multi ton buildings is staggering. Best we can hope for is a park cap. That is still a pipe dream and would most likely require federal funding to pull off.

Well, you'd start with a cap and a single park, then build the other caps once the TIF bonds from the streetcar are paid off. And you could do a higher rise development to offset the cost. Medium density can be a lot higher than standard 4 over 1s! The advantage Omaha has here is that a) the actual area needed for a cap is relatively small, and b) most of the land being capped is just the slope extending down to the roadway itself. Plenty of room to drive deep piles without compromising space. If I'm remembering correctly, there's even precedent for this exact type of thing happening in the US. Seattle is developing a medium density lid over a much larger area with less room, and I think Cincinnati is doing the same.

For Omaha, this would be something we consider years in the future, once the Stitch is finished with whatever they decide to do, the Streetcar is finished and the remaining empty lots in the area have been filled in.

[Brad]

and the remaining empty lots in the area have been filled in.

^^^ This is the key. With so many empty an under utilized lots in this area, building an expensive cap on the interstate makes zero sense at this time.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

Building a cap over the highwaycould make the adjacent empty lots more attractive and valuable to build on. In an urban setting, being located next to a highway is rarely a selling point.

[meliketrains]

and the remaining empty lots in the area have been filled in.

^^^ This is the key. With so many empty an under utilized lots in this area, building an expensive cap on the interstate makes zero sense at this time.

Definitely, I mean, there's no shortage of prime development real-estate available right now. For the math to work, the low-hanging fruit would have to be gone and the streetcar successful enough to warrant another TIF leverage, or even if the City didn't go that route, traditional financing options. It's more of a question for 10, 15 years in the future, but I do think how the Stitch area pans out could be a clue as to how the City sees the area and what plans it envisions. At minimum, my hope is that both Douglas and Dodge are converted into two-ways at some point, with the strip of Douglas that connects to Dodge removed and the park area extended from Turner Park down to Turner Blvd, which would hopefully then be given proper bike lanes and pedestrian improvements. That alone would go a long way towards better connecting Midtown, though the streetcar is going to be the big one.

[zippy]

This talk about capping the highway reminds me of the Capitol Crossing development on top of I-395 in DC. I don't know if that is still being worked on or if they gave up on it.

[Dusty]

Building a cap over the highwaycould make the adjacent empty lots more attractive and valuable to build on. In an urban setting, being located next to a highway is rarely a selling point.

In some cities, it makes sense. A way to bring urban elements into a space dominated by cars. In cities where the traffic is strong, it's one way of reinventing the space.

in our case, traffic has been diminishing year after year on I-480. Most of the traffic is just during rush hour. Once rush hour is done, it barely has any cars on it. I used to own one of the homes on 29th. I could stand at my front door and watch all the traffic. The sound was only loud during rush hour. Beyond that, I hardly noticed it because the traffic was so low during the day.

Spending multi-millions on a lid would be a huge waste of money. I-480 is dying a slow death now. A lid would be merely pulling a blanket over a corpse and pretending it's not there. There are better ways to reinvent the space that embraces transit, urban infill, and pulling both sides together.

[meliketrains]

Building a cap over the highwaycould make the adjacent empty lots more attractive and valuable to build on. In an urban setting, being located next to a highway is rarely a selling point.

In some cities, it makes sense. A way to bring urban elements into a space dominated by cars. In cities where the traffic is strong, it's one way of reinventing the space.

in our case, traffic has been diminishing year after year on I-480. Most of the traffic is just during rush hour. Once rush hour is done, it barely has any cars on it. I used to own one of the homes on 29th. I could stand at my front door and watch all the traffic. The sound was only loud during rush hour. Beyond that, I hardly noticed it because the traffic was so low during the day.

Spending multi-millions on a lid would be a huge waste of money. I-480 is dying a slow death now. A lid would be merely pulling a blanket over a corpse and pretending it's not there. There are better ways to reinvent the space that embraces transit, urban infill, and pulling both sides together.

What do you envision?

My assumption is that even if the highway "dies," there's going to be little appetite from an emergency management perspective to remove a major highway completely. I think it also presents an opportunity for future commuter rail given how seamlessly it connects to the rest of the city and how little land acquisition you would need on that route.

[Dusty]

What do you envision?

My assumption is that even if the highway "dies," there's going to be little appetite from an emergency management perspective to remove a major highway completely. I think it also presents an opportunity for future commuter rail given how seamlessly it connects to the rest of the city and how little land acquisition you would need on that route.

I have a vision to reimagine the space to be transit-focused with entertainment districts pulling it all together. I'm not going to go into detail here since it's discussed on other threads.

The point is seeing the writing on the wall. Car traffic is dropping using I-480. We are studying building a bridge from CB to connect to backside of 16th street for delivery trucks. This will be one nail in the coffin. Detouring heavy haul traffic to I-29 into the backside of the industrial area. The second nail....The Stitch. By taking away ramps to develop this area, you are taking away an access point. Will less access points to get on and off, it becomes less convenient leading to a drop in car usage.

As for the Stich, I would love to see some hotels in here with ground floor restaurants. Cluster the hotels together with a shared courtyard or public gathering space.