Omaha Streetcar Discussion

[BuildTaller]

Off Topic, but there are a bunch of KC Streetcar construction pics located here : https://www.flickr.com/photos/skylinesc ... 324757003/

[skinzfan23]

That’s a good idea of what to expect once rail construction begins in Omaha.

[skip]

are there any dedicated lanes for the omaha streetcar? Looks like KC has quit a few.

[Busguy2010]

I'd expect there to be rails in both these bridges on completion. That's the reason they're replacing the bridges

[MetcalfeHarrison]

I think there will be block-outs for the rails, and they will be installed as the rest of the rail is laid. I don't think they wanted separate contractors installing the rail in different spots.

[GenX]

I think there will be block-outs for the rails, and they will be installed as the rest of the rail is laid. I don't think they wanted separate contractors installing the rail in different spots.

I would imagine it also makes the rail bed modular so that it can be replaced in the future without re-decking the bridge.

[locoluke]

are there any dedicated lanes for the omaha streetcar? Looks like KC has quit a few.

It’ll run in mixed traffic without dedicated lanes

[almighty_tuna]

are there any dedicated lanes for the omaha streetcar? Looks like KC has quit a few.

It’ll run in mixed traffic without dedicated lanes

Welcome to the forum!

[Athomsfere]

are there any dedicated lanes for the omaha streetcar? Looks like KC has quit a few.

It’ll run in mixed traffic without dedicated lanes

Was there an update there?

I know in some spots that was true, there were a lot of stretches still in the air with some preferred designs having sections dedicated to the streetcar. And bike paths fully separated from traffic even.

[PotatoeEatsFish]

Yeah really dumb af to run as a liberal and be against mass transit. As much as I have issues with Jean she easily got my vote in the primary and this upcoming election. Really hope the other candidates next cycle move on past their weird hatred for mass transit because they keep holding on to resentment for that brutalist box torn down almost years ago at this point.

[Brad]

are there any dedicated lanes for the omaha streetcar? Looks like KC has quit a few.

It’ll run in mixed traffic without dedicated lanes

Was there an update there?

I know in some spots that was true, there were a lot of stretches still in the air with some preferred designs having sections dedicated to the streetcar. And bike paths fully separated from traffic even.

For some reason, I thought it was 100% in the street (other than around the streetcar barn). Ill shoot Zephyr a text and ask what he knows.

[Garrett]

I've never seen any discussion about dedicated lanes for the streetcar, though I hope they'll be able to have them at some point.

[arch_RP_planner]

Going back to this axon view, I noticed the streetcar was painted different than other iterations of promo material shown throughout the last few years (a lot of solid red). Has the city/Streetcar Authority announced how they will be painted? I do actually really like the navy bottom with light blue/teal top shown, but I can't say I would be very content if it was solid red like shown in the various planning documents/brochures. Anyone know anything?

Side note: The ORBT line is shown as orange when you view transit maps on google or apple (and the buses are, in fact, Orange), so since the streetcar line was shown in navy and light blue on the various maps showing the updated streetcar route, do you think that could be inferencing towards a color? Seems the color palette for all the promo material is also navy/teal, but I may be overthinking it (I also attached the official map from the official street car website for reference).

[Garrett]

I wouldn't read too much into the colors of the streetcar on a rendering like that. They probably just pulled in a pre-existing model from their rendering software of choice. To my knowledge, no decisions about color have been made yet, but CAF does seem to have all sorts of different options available.

[Dusty]

The streetcar will be street running with a few points of protection. Midtown Crossing and Blackstone will be center lane running with median stations. These 2 stops will be narrowed to one lane that is shared. If you are behind the streetcar at these stops, you will not have the room to pass. This makes these "protected" in that sense.

The rest of the route is curbside running. There will be 2 lanes. One drive lane and one shared lane. They could convert the shared lane to be a dedicated (protected) lane for the streetcar in time.

[nebport5]

Stothert has said that cars would be the same colors as the parking pay kiosks downtown. So if there are six cars each likely would have its own color (green, blue, red, purple, etc.). Of course, that could change and I’d prefer if they were all one color (as long as they’re not inmate orange like ORB).

[arch_RP_planner]

Totally understand, however all of the promo material for the streetcar has been that color combo, which is exactly how ORBT was graphically represented in its promo material.

Mainly, I was trying to bring general attention to it, partly because I do really like those colors, and wanted to get some more opinions on desired colors haha.

[Athomsfere]

I've never seen any discussion about dedicated lanes for the streetcar, though I hope they'll be able to have them at some point.

My memory is, and could be mistaken:

They had multiple deigns for different stretches. I seem to remember a couple where it was separated. Specifically I think where the Harney street bridge and the immediate area east had one that kept a bike lane fully separated along with the streetcar a dedicated lane. Not grade separated or anything, but not in traffic.

Of course I am remembering a single meeting from like 2 years ago when the project was much younger.

[Busguy2010]

I'd like it if each car had it's own color. It was pretty cool, back in like 2009, Metro acquired some buses from Orlando. Each one was a different color, and had different interiors. They had their own personalities. The streetcar could be like that. It was just kinda fun not knowing which one you were gonna get, or which one would be rolling through your neighborhood on any given day.

[Dusty]

I'd like it if each car had it's own color. It was pretty cool, back in like 2009, Metro acquired some buses from Orlando. Each one was a different color, and had different interiors. They had their own personalities. The streetcar could be like that. It was just kinda fun not knowing which one you were gonna get, or which one would be rolling through your neighborhood on any given day.

Long term I want solid colors for each line. Red line-red trains. Blue line-Blue trains, etc.
In the short term, it would be fun to have each train be its own theme.

In Orlando, we got to ride the sky lift at Disney. Each gondola is a different color with Disney movie on it. It was a complete rush for the kids as they anticipated which theme they would get. So yes, I get where you are going with this!

[Busguy2010]

I don't know how I stumbled upon this fascinating map, but it's an old map of the Omaha bus system, with some of the streetcar routes intact. It looks to be around the time the streetcar system was being phased out. I never seen it before. It's fascinating to see how the city was shaped, and how the former system influenced the current system. I.e. the 4 is still the 4, the 2 (which is now ORBT) was the Dodge street route. Many of the same ideas of how to move the people of the city (the 4 connected Benson and Aksarben at that time) can be found in today's discussions in having a BRT route run on Maple, Saddle Creek, and Center. The 2, in perspective, was a very young route, as the westward expansion was only just starting, and Dodge was probably a two lane road that led to 72nd, which was a dirt road. Now it's ORBT. I dream to go back to that time and explore the city and it's transportation system and dynamic, before cars became everything. I'd guess this is from the late 40's to early 50's.

https://omahalibrary.contentdm.oclc.org ... 4/id/1510/

[Zephyr]

The streetcar tracks are all shared with traffic lanes, except for the tracks that go to the maintenance facility on the east end (off 8th & Dodge Street) and the turnback track on the west end in the middle of Farnam Street (39th to 40th Street).

Also, I understand that a paint scheme has been picked, just not revealed yet. I suspect it will be part of an image refresh with the other promotional material.

[nebport5]

The streetcar tracks are all shared with traffic lanes, except for the tracks that go to the maintenance facility on the east end (off 8th & Dodge Street) and the turnback track on the west end in the middle of Farnam Street (39th to 40th Street).

Also, I understand that a paint scheme has been picked, just not revealed yet. I suspect it will be part of an image refresh with the other promotional material.

Thanks for sharing.

In regard to the color scheme the current promotional material(and some renderings) would suggest navy and blueish-green…unless we are talking about a forthcoming refresh. I’d also imagine it would be more cost effective to have the cars all the same color scheme vs six unique colors of paint to maintain individually. Of course you also have to wonder if wraps are inevitable? While they’re not my favorite it wouldn’t be bad to promote things like Union Omaha, Supernovas, museum exhibits and etc.

[locoluke]

It's 14 months old now, but here are some materials from the 60% design open house including proposed paint schemes and the alignment of the streetcar tracks: https://publicinput.com/v5551

[Busguy2010]

I think the Metro livery is pretty clean, but if they're not running it, it wouldn't make sense.

[Garrett]

Fun video from NotJustBikes, one of the biggest urbanism YouTubers, about the value of trams (streetcars)

[stadsborgare]

Fun video from NotJustBikes, one of the biggest urbanism YouTubers, about the value of trams (streetcars)

I learned a few things, one of them being that our BRT is basically "just a bus."

[Athomsfere]

Fun video from NotJustBikes, one of the biggest urbanism YouTubers, about the value of trams (streetcars)

I learned a few things, one of them being that our BRT is basically "just a bus."

I don't think that's entirely fair. BRT is better than a bus, but yes just a better version of the second worst form of transit.

[locoluke]

Fun video from NotJustBikes, one of the biggest urbanism YouTubers, about the value of trams (streetcars)

I learned a few things, one of them being that our BRT is basically "just a bus."

There's still value in ORBT with the increased frequencies, limited stops, and quality stations, although I do strongly agree on BRT creep being a problem. ORBT has bus lanes everywhere except for where they would be helpful, and the bus lanes it has are pretty low quality -- only demarcated by white lines and still allowing traffic use them to turn right.

One of the difficulties it faces that exacerbates BRT creep is that Dodge Street is just a difficult corridor to built true BRT on. It's already maxed-out as far as width goes and it has the highest traffic volumes of any surface arterial in the city. Don't even suggest reassigning lanes to be bus-only to NDOT. I also can't begin to imagine the roar of complaints and angry letters published in the World Herald. about "empty" ORBT buses taking away car lanes.

[Busguy2010]

Fun video from NotJustBikes, one of the biggest urbanism YouTubers, about the value of trams (streetcars)

I learned a few things, one of them being that our BRT is basically "just a bus."

It's all relative. IMO, its the best BRT in our region. They made a great effort to out do KC, and they hit on that. I'm proud of it.

There's only so much leeway to work with. Nobody was ever going to let Dodge lose two lanes (and that wouldn't decrease the trip time any tangible amount regardless). I was a part of those discussions 15 or so years ago. They did the best with what the people were willing to give them, and I think they did a good job with it.

[ita]

Fun video from NotJustBikes, one of the biggest urbanism YouTubers, about the value of trams (streetcars)

Cool video. Neat to see footage of some cities with strong urban planning and design. It would be awesome to have some real pedestrian friendly districts along the line, looking at East Turner Park/LID and the Dodge Park Riverside Golf Course in Council Bluffs. Really hoping extensions are done asap to solidify the streetcar system.

[Dusty]

BRT is not a bus but a type of service. You can use any style of bus for it. Typically, when cities have BRT services they use articulated buses. This is a longer bus connected with segments with accordion style connector. Or as my kids call it...the snake bus. LOL!

I don't look at trams as being better. It really comes down to design. It's important you are using the right mode for the corridor. In the case of ORBT, the original renderings were a better design as it has center lane boarding in front of UNO. Center lane boarding scores higher on design standards than curbside. ORBT falls more into BRT Lite. This mostly runs in street traffic and had little to no dedicated lanes. Dodge Street is challenging because it is still considered a highway. This makes it harder to take away lanes for a dedicated service like true BRT or light rail. I think it's a blessing in disguise. We can deal with our BRT Lite service for now. When we are due for an upgrade, we can leapfrog right to metro rail. More likely elevated track since it's cheaper to build than a subway.

[Mapguy]

If I was going to hedge my bets on Dodge BRT. I would have gotten rid of the confusing center-lane that switches direction for 2 hours a day and just made the far right lane an ORBT only lane.

I feel like that center lane is a death trap because there's always some idiot trying to use it to turn left

[almighty_tuna]

I would have gotten rid of the confusing center-lane that switches direction for 2 hours a day and just made the far right lane an ORBT only lane.

Of all the ideas about Dodge that get thrown around here this is probably the most practical one that actually provides a mass transit advantage.

[riceweb]

Ooh, that's still a good idea IMO. Just do 3 lanes in one direction (one dedicated for BRT), 2 in the other, and run the counter flow on Farnam?

[nebport5]

I would have gotten rid of the confusing center-lane that switches direction for 2 hours a day and just made the far right lane an ORBT only lane.

Of all the ideas about Dodge that get thrown around here this is probably the most practical one that actually provides a mass transit advantage.

+1

Or in a distant more perfect world, that extra lane would have an L train running from the airport that links to the streetcar line before running a path along the former 480 bridge boulevard, then angling over to at least the length of Dodge St.

[PWL73316]

The permanence of the tracks being a development catalyst is what sold me on the streetcar here. I also happen to believe that Omaha is more or less just like Kansas City and the streetcar has been a massive success there.

I haven't figured out the way to fully articulate this correctly, but for some reason, the fact that the streetcar can be seen as more of a "toy" makes it less threatening to suburbanites. Busses, or even worse, true light rail, are more of a "car threat" that might mean the city starts to prefer local residents or the car-less or minorities or pedestrians or whatever threat is in the imagination. But the streetcar being kind of cute and small when it starts means you can just take it from Midtown to the Old Market or whatever and pretend it's not "real" transportation, so it's not as threatening.

Hopefully, then, the initial line is established with less trouble, and then you're just expanding something that is already there, which is less threatening than some new thing you don't have already.

[Busguy2010]

If I was going to hedge my bets on Dodge BRT. I would have gotten rid of the confusing center-lane that switches direction for 2 hours a day and just made the far right lane an ORBT only lane.

I feel like that center lane is a death trap because there's always some idiot trying to use it to turn left

I totally agree here. The center lane is next to useless. Drop it, make the (probably west bound) curb lane ORBT only, keep no left turns. OR make the center lane a turn lane. If it pleases the transit purists, I say go for it.

Everything I think about Dodge is to increase safety and utility. I don't believe dedicating a lane to ORBT would actually accomplish anything in the way of reducing trip time, or make it more attractive to convert auto drivers. Unless they physically separated it and allowed the bus to go significantly faster than other traffic. That would never happen.

So we were never going to have REAL BRT. What we got was a good compromise that comes with good amenities and a faster trip time than Route 2 had. I don't think it was ever going to be a traffic solution, but at least it improved the experience for people who were already more apt to utilize it.

And nobody could deny its had something to do with all the apartment developments that have happened all along Dodge. So I think it'll go a long way in moving all those new people around the Dodge corridor.

[Busguy2010]

In the case of ORBT, the original renderings were a better design as it has center lane boarding in front of UNO. Center lane boarding scores higher on design standards than curbside.

As for that initial center lane running idea, that was just silly, sorry. That was just a pipe dream rendering to sell BRT. There's physically no way you could have buses running every 10 minutes in both directions in one lane. Plus that center station was like 2 feet wide lol. They never delved deep into that idea, for reason.

[Dusty]

Found this interview with KC Streetcar. Really informative and gives you a tour of their maintenance facility/wash bay. Also, they talk about skins/wraps on new trains and challenges running with mixed traffic.