Civic Square (former Civic Auditorium)

[skinzfan23]

Worse yet, this is four.

True, I didn't even think about that.

[arch_RP_planner]

Anyone know of a way for the public to help shut down a project?? I've gotten to the point where unless this site has at least one building over 15 stories, and a general density that *matches* the current developments (like OCM/Beam, Duo, First National Center), it should be immediately denied...

Also, in agreeance with Garrett and Skinzfan23, I fully believe that if the site was split up into the OG blocks, the site would be so much more successful, more diverse, and better long-term for the city's core.

[nebport5]

The KETV article said Ewing is supposed to meet with White Lotus next month, but to what end if the city council is giving this the green light? Could Ewing veto the city council and initiate a take back?

[NEDodger]

The KETV article said Ewing is supposed to meet with White Lotus next month, but to what end if the city council is giving this the green light? Could Ewing veto the city council and initiate a take back?

If this was a 7-0 vote, the veto would just get overridden anyways.

[Busguy2010]

The original plan for this site would have been amazing.

Just think of what we were expecting vs what we have.

HDR at 12th & Dodge, Lanaha at 14th & Dodge (or Wall Street tower), and Tetrad at the civic site.

Just imagine how Downtown would look with those three buildings. All would have been up by now.

Just a good old fashioned three swing, strike out. Batter up!

[Doctor Fate]

City council contact info is here:
https://citycouncil.cityofomaha.org/contact-us

[nebport5]

The KETV article said Ewing is supposed to meet with White Lotus next month, but to what end if the city council is giving this the green light? Could Ewing veto the city council and initiate a take back?

If this was a 7-0 vote, the veto would just get overridden anyways.

Perhaps, though maybe the bigger question here is Ewing intending to make good on campaign promises to hold White Lotus accountable after missing deadlines and some infrastructure allegedly to be complete a year from now? At this point, he has to be aware of what the other developer Stothert referred to has apparently proposed to the city. Ewing should comment publicly after this meeting.

[MadJack]

The KETV article said Ewing is supposed to meet with White Lotus next month, but to what end if the city council is giving this the green light? Could Ewing veto the city council and initiate a take back?

If this was a 7-0 vote, the veto would just get overridden anyways.

Perhaps, though maybe the bigger question here is Ewing intending to make good on campaign promises to hold White Lotus accountable after missing deadlines and some infrastructure allegedly to be complete a year from now? At this point, he has to be aware of what the other developer Stothert referred to has apparently proposed to the city. Ewing should comment publicly after this meeting.

There are rumblings now that the city is trying to get the "other developer" to do their project in North Downtown instead of the civic site. The other developer is nonprofit-focused, and the city would prefer for-profit development on the civic site (it's in the streetcar development zone). I'm not sure how the other developer feels about that nor do I even know if the rumors are actually true. Either way, downtown will keep getting more and more projects for the foreseeable future. Seems like there are a lot of potential pieces moving around on the downtown drawing board.

[Garrett]

The KETV article said Ewing is supposed to meet with White Lotus next month, but to what end if the city council is giving this the green light? Could Ewing veto the city council and initiate a take back?

If this was a 7-0 vote, the veto would just get overridden anyways.

Perhaps, though maybe the bigger question here is Ewing intending to make good on campaign promises to hold White Lotus accountable after missing deadlines and some infrastructure allegedly to be complete a year from now? At this point, he has to be aware of what the other developer Stothert referred to has apparently proposed to the city. Ewing should comment publicly after this meeting.

There are rumblings now that the city is trying to get the "other developer" to do their project in North Downtown instead of the civic site. The other developer is nonprofit-focused, and the city would prefer for-profit development on the civic site (it's in the streetcar development zone). I'm not sure how the other developer feels about that nor do I even know if the rumors are actually true. Either way, downtown will keep getting more and more projects for the foreseeable future. Seems like there are a lot of potential pieces moving around on the downtown drawing board.

Are we talking affordable housing sort of non-profit thing here?

[nativeomahan]

This project would be a nice fit, for downtown.
Downtown Blair or Gretna. Maybe Plattsmouth.

[MadJack]

The KETV article said Ewing is supposed to meet with White Lotus next month, but to what end if the city council is giving this the green light? Could Ewing veto the city council and initiate a take back?

If this was a 7-0 vote, the veto would just get overridden anyways.

Perhaps, though maybe the bigger question here is Ewing intending to make good on campaign promises to hold White Lotus accountable after missing deadlines and some infrastructure allegedly to be complete a year from now? At this point, he has to be aware of what the other developer Stothert referred to has apparently proposed to the city. Ewing should comment publicly after this meeting.

There are rumblings now that the city is trying to get the "other developer" to do their project in North Downtown instead of the civic site. The other developer is nonprofit-focused, and the city would prefer for-profit development on the civic site (it's in the streetcar development zone). I'm not sure how the other developer feels about that nor do I even know if the rumors are actually true. Either way, downtown will keep getting more and more projects for the foreseeable future. Seems like there are a lot of potential pieces moving around on the downtown drawing board.

Are we talking affordable housing sort of non-profit thing here?

More like a nonprofit thing I believe.

[nebport5]

hmm…perhaps a museum?

[Doctor Fate]

On Grow Omaha, Trenton called White Lotus’ designs (that he said are on the Grow Omaha site) “pretty cool” and “very aggressive”. I am not seeing that in any way.

[Omahayngin]

this is like the most non aggressive and uninspiring design for this plot of land lol unless i’m missing something. and for the record i think this would really work in another area of downtown. it just seems like a wasted potential here and throws off the proportions and aesthetic of the area here.

[arch_RP_planner]

this is like the most non aggressive and uninspiring design for this plot of land lol unless i’m missing something. and for the record i think this would really work in another area of downtown. it just seems like a wasted potential here and throws off the proportions and aesthetic of the area here.

They had mentioned studying verticality, and I was wondering if that was referencing going vertical/like starting construction; or working with the city (now that they claim planning/zoning/permitting is along nicely) to increase the heights of part of the development... wasn't too sure on that one, though I think increasing the density/height of the project would help greatly, especially if on the southern side of the site, toward the CBD.

[Lillian Bean]

The alternate proposal I have heard about is essentially the opposite of verticality and density. It's not the Union Stadium though.

[ita]

The alternate proposal I have heard about is essentially the opposite of verticality and density. It's not the Union Stadium though.

Sunken garden and pond. I kid. I have no idea.

[Garrett]

The alternate proposal I have heard about is essentially the opposite of verticality and density. It's not the Union Stadium though.

There seem to be quite a few people who have heard about this proposal. Would it make sense in another part of downtown?

[Lillian Bean]

There seem to be quite a few people who have heard about this proposal. Would it make sense in another part of downtown?

It could potentially be in another part of town, but the Civic site is the closest site option to the existing facility the new development would serve.

[Huskerbum]

Give half the site to each developer, that seems to be the only way you get anything with any height on this site with the current developers.

[Louie]

There seem to be quite a few people who have heard about this proposal. Would it make sense in another part of downtown?

It could potentially be in another part of town, but the Civic site is the closest site option to the existing facility the new development would serve.

Existing facility? Possible new police and fire hq? But spread out over 4 blocks?

[WouldaCouldaShoulda]

“Non-profit” as in combined Fire/PD HQ is also my guess… though not a non-profit in the typical sense, and wouldn’t need 4 city blocks…

While I have the floor, it’s unfortunate how far the city and its planners have shifted away from developing lots vs developing blocks downtown. I wish Omaha had planners who understood every project does not need to consist of some mega-plan executed all at once. If the Civic had been split into and offered up as 16 quarter block parcels (combine a few if needed), just imagine the variety of local and national development, and architectural styles, and the variety of offerings Omaha could have had versus the cookie-cutter-anywhere-USA-modern-mini-mall proposal that was approved (granted, empirical development evidence suggests this White Lotus project has a better chance of failing than it does of actually coming to fruition).

The myopic decisions made regarding this parcel seemingly centered around getting a grocery store downtown, and remind me of all the past myopic decisions Omaha has made (ie: the latched on fantasy of Marina City begat the loss of Jobbers Canyon, and even though the Civic was already razed to begin with, visions without compromise influence outcomes all the same). A grocery store is needed downtown, zero argument there, it’s a food desert (excl: Cubby’s, I suppose), but I don’t recall any TJ’s or Aldi or HyVee Fresh structure in town requiring 4 city blocks (empty surface parking lots not withstanding).

[Linkin5]

On Grow Omaha, Trenton called White Lotus’ designs (that he said are on the Grow Omaha site) “pretty cool” and “very aggressive”. I am not seeing that in any way.

Didn’t they mention that White Lotus is also now partnering with Creighton to create some sort of university district? I don’t mind the original plan and would like to see it come to fruition, but if they are still changing design plans at this phase I don’t see them building anything.

[nebport5]

The "going vertical" and “aggressive" comment is about proceeding with the plan of developing the entire four blocks as a for-profit development. However underwhelming this sounds on paper it’s still a significant undertaking to achieve this goal of simultaneously developing the whole property.

I also don’t think it has anything to do with the height of the buildings and I don’t think the "non-profit” developer has anything to do with a new police/fire headquarters. The other comment above about this site being in the streetcar zone and the city preferring a for-profit development here makes a lot more sense than a “non-profit” police/fire facility where by the city is that would be “developer”.


I do hope White Lotus is able to pull off something much greater than my skepticism. Trying to play off of Creighton I don’t think is a bad strategy but I wonder if that aim would be too exclusive for the general needs of downtown? Consider the specific "university villages" mentioned don’t necessarily imply a grocery store either.

If you look at what’s in these other campus adjacent developments it’s; dry cleaners, hair salons, banks, smoke shops, liquor stores, gastro pubs, sports bars and more coffee shops…or you know many of the things downtown already has or things(chains) we want to keep away from the Old Market like B Dubs, Rally House, Walgreens/CVS, Chipotle, major chain pizza and burner phone stores.

I’m also reminded of what’s in North Downtown now and the many establishments that have folded along the way since Slowdown opened. Places still struggle for business in this neighborhood and more such places at the Civic site I don’t see being helping that issue. Let’s also not forget the turnover in The Capitol District. So Agawarl’s comment about doing this “the right way” indeed takes on a complicated meaning in my mind too.

[Doctor Fate]

On Grow Omaha, Trenton called White Lotus’ designs (that he said are on the Grow Omaha site) “pretty cool” and “very aggressive”. I am not seeing that in any way.

Didn’t they mention that White Lotus is also now partnering with Creighton to create some sort of university district? I don’t mind the original plan and would like to see it come to fruition, but if they are still changing design plans at this phase I don’t see them building anything.

Trenton’s comments were about the original plans because he said they (the plans) were on multiple sites, including Grow Omaha.

I don’t know what “vertical design process” means but Gemini says it means conceptualization and massing, architectural design, structural engineering design, and mechanical/electrical/plumbing design. I don’t think Creighton was ever mentioned before for Civic Square, so maybe a new design? The wording White Lotus is using is a little vague.

[Hawkeye]

Ol' Hawkeye is willing to wait and see and hope for the best.

But if this turns out to be largely the original plan then it will be, in a word, underwhelming.

[Omahayngin]

Does anyone have any idea explanation on why the city continues to do mega block projects that likely either don’t pan out like planned or take years and years to do? (often lack luster in design as well) rather than individual or multiple lots that would in my opinion offer better and more diverse development? is it just the want to get it done and over? is this a trend nation wide? i just can’t wrap my head around it and feel as if im missing something on why the city planners keep going the mega block singular developer rout.

[Louie]

To me, it seems like they keep these large block developments together so they have more control over the final project. But it doesn't seem to be a very efficient (or good imo) way to go about it.

[GenX]

To me, it seems like they keep these large block developments together so they have more control over the final project. But it doesn't seem to be a very efficient (or good imo) way to go about it.

Whatever happens here, it should at least restore the street grid as much as is practical since their future vision is to reclaim the space taken up by the elevated portion of I-480 and its ramps. Something spanning multiple blocks isn’t as easy to replace as something that only takes a block or less.

[Brad]

To me, it seems like they keep these large block developments together so they have more control over the final project. But it doesn't seem to be a very efficient (or good imo) way to go about it.

Whatever happens here, it should at least restore the street grid as much as is practical since their future vision is to reclaim the space taken up by the elevated portion of I-480 and its ramps. Something spanning multiple blocks isn’t as easy to replace as something that only takes a block or less.

The current proposal/project does put 18th Street back in, and part of Davenport Street back in. Davenport can't be put back fully without demolition of the existing parking garage.

[nebport5]

One possibility on the “other developer”…

back when Tetrad was to redevelop the Civic one of the rumors involved the YMCA relocating here. Now, not that a new Y would(or should) take up anymore than a quadrant of a new Civic Square, but that would fit the “non-profit” component serving the surrounding area.

[PWL73316]

"It's going to be like the Haymarket" - but Creighton has like 4000 undergrads. I say this as a very proud Creighton alum, Creighton couldn't support the Jay, it cannot support a whole "district" or whatever, not even close. This plan makes no sense. It's going to be like Capitol, but twice the size? Omaha can't even support the one we have!

This is a bad plan by a bad company, I really hope it dies.

Worst case scenario is it gets built, the area can't support it (which we already know) and it just withers out and blights and we're back where we started, with new buildings to tear down.

[nebport5]

From this afternoon:

[Doctor Fate]

From this afternoon:

lol this is sad

[Dusty]

Civic Square and Crossroads place heavy machinery on their lot on almost the same day. lol.
Is this a look busy move or will we see some action? Time will tell.

[almighty_tuna]

This is just White Lotus going through the motions. Arun Agarwal has other projects he's making more money on and is content to let this sit on the back burner. I wish the city would claw this back and work with a developer who actually develops.

[nebport5]

Civic Square and Crossroads place heavy machinery on their lot on almost the same day. lol.
Is this a look busy move or will we see some action? Time will tell.

FWIW, there was only one heavy machinery vehicle on site a week or two ago. Time will tell, indeed.

[djc311]

This is just White Lotus going through the motions. Arun Agarwal has other projects he's making more money on and is content to let this sit on the back burner. I wish the city would claw this back and work with a developer who actually develops.

IMO, they made a poor choice working with this company. He's buying time... I can't believe the city couldn't have implemented bigger penalties during the initial negotiations with both Crossroads and the Civic site. I get it, people say if it's private development, you can't simply go in and repo the land, etc... however, if there are specific tax incentives involved and if the govt. is in anyway associated with the redevelopment, then they most definitely could have created milestones or specific timelines that required work to be done.

It's sad that these things turn into 10-15-20 year projects when they should be done in less than 5 with the right group. Covid aside, these things should certainly be further along than they are! At least Crossroads is supposed to see something go vertical relatively soon.

[Doctor Fate]

This is just White Lotus going through the motions. Arun Agarwal has other projects he's making more money on and is content to let this sit on the back burner. I wish the city would claw this back and work with a developer who actually develops.

IMO, they made a poor choice working with this company. He's buying time... I can't believe the city couldn't have implemented bigger penalties during the initial negotiations with both Crossroads and the Civic site. I get it, people say if it's private development, you can't simply go in and repo the land, etc... however, if there are specific tax incentives involved and if the govt. is in anyway associated with the redevelopment, then they most definitely could have created milestones or specific timelines that required work to be done.

It's sad that these things turn into 10-15-20 year projects when they should be done in less than 5 with the right group. Covid aside, these things should certainly be further along than they are! At least Crossroads is supposed to see something go vertical relatively soon.

And isn't White Lotus redoing their site plans now that they pivoted to doing a "university village" with Creighton? That's at least what Don Rowe told me when he said that he's excited to see what White Lotus will be presenting to them.

[Louie]

This is just White Lotus going through the motions. Arun Agarwal has other projects he's making more money on and is content to let this sit on the back burner. I wish the city would claw this back and work with a developer who actually develops.

IMO, they made a poor choice working with this company. He's buying time... I can't believe the city couldn't have implemented bigger penalties during the initial negotiations with both Crossroads and the Civic site. I get it, people say if it's private development, you can't simply go in and repo the land, etc... however, if there are specific tax incentives involved and if the govt. is in anyway associated with the redevelopment, then they most definitely could have created milestones or specific timelines that required work to be done.

It's sad that these things turn into 10-15-20 year projects when they should be done in less than 5 with the right group. Covid aside, these things should certainly be further along than they are! At least Crossroads is supposed to see something go vertical relatively soon.

And isn't White Lotus redoing their site plans now that they pivoted to doing a "university village" with Creighton? That's at least what Don Rowe told me when he said that he's excited to see what White Lotus will be presenting to them.

Oh god, what if they turn it into a quad.