Omaha Streetcar Discussion

[GenX]

I'll repeat my opinion that most obvious extension is adding a half-mile up 10th street to better connect the convention center, baseball field, and Millwork Commons. It could either come back south the same way, or maybe loop around to the west through the builder's district, catch the edge of Creighton campus, and then back to 10th via Mike Fahey St.

Millwork Commons is really expanding, but it is just a bit too far for walking from downtown and would really benefit from being connected. This route would also support development of lot B/D, which I really hope happens soon. Not to mention connecting the long-rumored soccer stadium (it is my personal theory that the north extension was put on hold until the stadium location was finalized).

Yes, going to Millwork would be ideal, especially if the soccer stadium is a go with the “entertainment village”. Even if one is ok with the walking distance, it’s a bit dicey for pedestrians around Millwork already.

I believe that the soccer stadium going there, if it happens, would be the catalyst to bring the streetcar up through Millwork Commons. You could even eventually have an extension serving the Creighton campus that goes down Cuming (or Burt St or Hamilton/Paul street, up NW Radial to Benson and down Saddle Creek connecting back into the line through UNMC.

[stadsborgare]

There is only so much money budgeted to building this streetcar, that any talk of adding more to it (to extend the line to Millwork Commons) would have to get by a very skeptical and angry voting block who is vehemently opposed to any streetcar whatsoever.

So an up and running and very successful initial line would have to change a lot of minds before there's an appetite for spending more money on a future extension, no matter how slam dunk obvious a need for it there is.

[nebport5]

I'll repeat my opinion that most obvious extension is adding a half-mile up 10th street to better connect the convention center, baseball field, and Millwork Commons. It could either come back south the same way, or maybe loop around to the west through the builder's district, catch the edge of Creighton campus, and then back to 10th via Mike Fahey St.

Millwork Commons is really expanding, but it is just a bit too far for walking from downtown and would really benefit from being connected. This route would also support development of lot B/D, which I really hope happens soon. Not to mention connecting the long-rumored soccer stadium (it is my personal theory that the north extension was put on hold until the stadium location was finalized).

Yes, going to Millwork would be ideal, especially if the soccer stadium is a go with the “entertainment village”. Even if one is ok with the walking distance, it’s a bit dicey for pedestrians around Millwork already.

I believe that the soccer stadium going there, if it happens, would be the catalyst to bring the streetcar up through Millwork Commons. You could even eventually have an extension serving the Creighton campus that goes down Cuming (or Burt St or Hamilton/Paul street, up NW Radial to Benson and down Saddle Creek connecting back into the line through UNMC.

Yes, if the soccer stadium is a go connecting to Millwork should be a no-brainer and that nominal extension should be realistic in the foreseeable future. The idea of connecting Benson with other major urban entertainment(downtown, Blackstone)would be ideal though obviously more difficult coming to fruition. Also the traffic pace on Cuming and most of Saddle Creek seem better suited for light rail while we’re talking idealistically. In my lifetime, I’ll bet I'd be lucky to see any major streetcar line connections.

[nebport5]

There is only so much money budgeted to building this streetcar, that any talk of adding more to it (to extend the line to Millwork Commons) would have to get by a very skeptical and angry voting block who is vehemently opposed to any streetcar whatsoever.

So an up and running and very successful initial line would have to change a lot of minds before there's an appetite for spending more money on a future extension, no matter how slam dunk obvious a need for it there is.

Yes, and no matter how wildly successful the initial line may be there’s a certain amount of people who’d continue to be angry skeptics.

[Garrett]

There is only so much money budgeted to building this streetcar, that any talk of adding more to it (to extend the line to Millwork Commons) would have to get by a very skeptical and angry voting block who is vehemently opposed to any streetcar whatsoever.

So an up and running and very successful initial line would have to change a lot of minds before there's an appetite for spending more money on a future extension, no matter how slam dunk obvious a need for it there is.

I could see there being some kind of deal where certain organizations in step in to fund it. UNMC has said they’ll fund their extension after all, so I could see Kiewit, Hines, or any other institution up in North Downtown interested in a small expansion in their direction being willing to throw money at it.

[stadsborgare]

There is only so much money budgeted to building this streetcar, that any talk of adding more to it (to extend the line to Millwork Commons) would have to get by a very skeptical and angry voting block who is vehemently opposed to any streetcar whatsoever.

So an up and running and very successful initial line would have to change a lot of minds before there's an appetite for spending more money on a future extension, no matter how slam dunk obvious a need for it there is.

I could see there being some kind of deal where certain organizations in step in to fund it. UNMC has said they’ll fund their extension after all, so I could see Kiewit, Hines, or any other institution up in North Downtown interested in a small expansion in their direction being willing to throw money at it.

That's our best hope if we don't want to wait 9 more years like Kansas City did.

[Dusty]

This is why I'm stressing now to get the expansion gameplan in place. At least one line in mind beyond the starter line. When the ridership spikes, you drop the idea of what could be coming next. Ride that wave of momentum. Wait too long, and people will become hesitant and resistant.

I'm pushing for a 10th Street expansion line. Build the North Segment as the next wave of momentum. After that, the next wave is most likely an expansion line through Dodge Riverside to 35th and 1st Ave in Council Bluffs.

[halgy]

There is only so much money budgeted to building this streetcar, that any talk of adding more to it (to extend the line to Millwork Commons) would have to get by a very skeptical and angry voting block who is vehemently opposed to any streetcar whatsoever.

So an up and running and very successful initial line would have to change a lot of minds before there's an appetite for spending more money on a future extension, no matter how slam dunk obvious a need for it there is.

Isn't the streetcar TIF projected to bring in like 2x the building cost? I know some of that is going (rightfully) to affordable housing, and that Ewing has some plans to bring that development forward rather than waiting 10 years for the money to actually come in. However, couldn't we use at least some of the rest to fund the extension in the same manner? The naysayers will complain regardless, but if we could make it so that new streetcar expansion is funded by previous streetcar lines, it should be easier to get obvious projects like this made. (and maybe when we run out of obviously good streetcar extensions, use the extra money to fund better bus infrastructure, like

I brought this up a while ago for a 10th street line. Like I mentioned before, build the North segment as soon as possible. The South segment to the zoo can be built later. This will give us the additional time to decide the proper Southern extension. (10th ST only, cut over on Pacific or Williams to 13th to zoo, or couplet than encompasses both 10th/13th.)

Thanks for posting that map again. I can't remember if I stole the idea from you...

As for an airport line, I think it could be a good service if it had limited stops and ran adjacent to Abbot Drive. It might end up looking closer to conventional/heavy rail. Abbot Drive has the luxury of having way more open space than most typical light rail ROWs that close to an urban core would generally have.

This is my general thought. It might not be as fast as "proper" light rail, but it doesn't really matter for just going 3 miles. Such an extension wouldn't pay for itself directly via TIF, but it could be funded using the method I suggested above. Or it might spur enough additional and better development along the rest of the line to make money via those TIF areas. But regardless, I think there's other extensions that make sense before then, and having a well-developed network before connecting to the airport would such an extension more workable.

[Busguy2010]

Obviously the UNMC extension will happen, as it was part of the original plan, but UNMC needed time to figure out their end. So I consider it more of a "completion", than an extension.

Also, up 10th to the ballpark was an original part of the plan, but was scrapped for now. I never really heard the reason behind that.

So that leads me to what I think should be the next line, which is 10th street from the ballpark, or Millwork Commons, to the Zoo. Its the low hanging fruit IMO.

[Dusty]

I just realized my photo above was an older one. I still had the CB line crossing at the Riverfront Parks. I changed my map to cross at Marcy to Harrah's and then go right down the spine of Dodge Riverside development to 1st Ave.

This comes back to a year ago I mentioned I was pushing the idea developing the Union Pacific land next to Durham as an entertainment district called "The Railyard". Key features would be a large restaurant with vintage rail signs and lights, gift shops for train memorabilia, etc. Also, this will make it more accessible for using Amtrack station.

This all hinging on getting the North segment of the 10th Street line first. The line would divert off to an additional storage garage (car barn) behind Durham. This sets the stage for the entertainment district and potential crossing for CB line.

[skinzfan23]

Wow, did Steve Jensen say that the streetcar isn’t going to operational until Labor Day 2028? That is crazy, if true. Originally I thought it was 2026, then 2027 and now late 2028.

[stadsborgare]

Wow, did Steve Jensen say that the streetcar isn’t going to operational until Labor Day 2028? That is crazy, if true. Originally I thought it was 2026, then 2027 and now late 2028.

The good news is that most of the boring but necessary underground utility work will be done by the end of this year, and we'll get to actually follow progress on construction of the route no later than next year!

[skinzfan23]

The good news is that most of the boring but necessary underground utility work will be done by the end of this year, and we'll get to actually follow progress on construction of the route no later than next year!

Yes, can’t wait to see the visible progress above ground. Exciting times to live in Omaha.

[Garrett]

Wow, did Steve Jensen say that the streetcar isn’t going to operational until Labor Day 2028? That is crazy, if true. Originally I thought it was 2026, then 2027 and now late 2028.

Yeah, he also mentioned they decided to replace all of the utilities under the streets there which lengthened the construction timeline significantly. The good news is they won't have to do this again for a very long time

[MetcalfeHarrison]

Wow, did Steve Jensen say that the streetcar isn’t going to operational until Labor Day 2028? That is crazy, if true. Originally I thought it was 2026, then 2027 and now late 2028.

The good news is that most of the boring but necessary underground utility work will be done by the end of this year, and we'll get to actually follow progress on construction of the route no later than next year!

The portions of utility work west of I-480 in Midtown/Blackstone will be done this year but the bigger contract from downtown to I-480 is just getting started and won't be done until the end of 2026 or early 2027. We should see tracks installed early in 2026 but they will still be chasing utilities on the east half for awhile.

[Ben]

Wow, did Steve Jensen say that the streetcar isn’t going to operational until Labor Day 2028? That is crazy, if true. Originally I thought it was 2026, then 2027 and now late 2028.

The General Contractor contract had a "Must complete by" date of 1/1/2029. So not entirely surprising to see continued push out....

[skinzfan23]

They have a public survey open from now until October 7th to get feedback about the streetcar brand (should be revealed by the end of the year):

https://publicinput.com/v80820

[Doctor Fate]

They have a public survey open from now until October 7th to get feedback about the streetcar brand (should be revealed by the end of the year):

https://publicinput.com/v80820

Thanks for sharing. I really liked the Seattle and Portland streetcar branding, hope we take influences from those two.

[skinzfan23]

I really KC and Seattle. Not sure what Portland's is supposed to be/represent.

[nebport5]

I really KC and Seattle. Not sure what Portland's is supposed to be/represent.

Agreed. Seattle is my favoriteof the group, followed by KC. I don’t love Portland's convoluted “S” logo.

None of them I’d call exceptional but Dallas and OKC are the worst.

[Louie]

DC's is pretty cartoonish, too.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

I suggested they not do something that could be easily made from icons in Microsoft Word.

[stadsborgare]

I took the survey. I preferred a simplified visual picture of a streetcar in the logo (ex. Seattle, KC) while the DC is my least favorite - it's too "busy".

I also ranked pretty high the importance of landmark-related graphics at stops.

[WorldStreet]

I took the survey. I prefer Seattle and Kansas City.

[Garrett]

Like with flags, I tend to have a rule for logos that a child should be able to draw it.

I think KC’s is the strongest, but I also ranked OKC’s as the worst because it was too minimal

[Busguy2010]

I wouldn't mind something as simple as a streetcar symbol like KC, surrounded by an O thats madebup by implied tracks, with a forward facing arrow. Something like that, more refined of course

[strangerthings]

I wouldn't mind something as simple as a streetcar symbol like KC, surrounded by an O thats madebup by implied tracks, with a forward facing arrow. Something like that, more refined of course

Adjust the arrow such that its tip ends at the 3’oclock position. “Omaha” will sit on top and “Streetcar” at bottom.

[Busguy2010]

I wouldn't mind something as simple as a streetcar symbol like KC, surrounded by an O thats madebup by implied tracks, with a forward facing arrow. Something like that, more refined of course

Adjust the arrow such that its tip ends at the 3’oclock position. “Omaha” will sit on top and “Streetcar” at bottom.

Good idea! I hope they take notes here lol

Perhaps having the arrow ending at the 9'oclock position to imply upward motion. I put it at 12'oclock to imply forward motion. 3'oclock would be pointing down.

But I agree with Omaha at the top and streetcar at the bottom. 'Course, just napkin drawings.

[Busguy2010]

That does look better.

[Busguy2010]

Anybody? LOL

I had too much fun with this tonight. But I really, sincerely challenge them to come up with something better. I only wish to be modestly compensated.

[Dusty]

Anybody? LOL

I had too much fun with this tonight. But I really, sincerely challenge them to come up with something better. I only wish to be modestly compensated.

I like the idea of simple tram picture. The smiling tram...ever better! lol

[Dusty]

The most important part of the brand is the name and marketing campaign that supports it. The colors, patterns, and logo design come secondary. Omaha Streetcar is too long in my opinion. Kansas City has KC Streetcar, Washington DC has DC Streetcar, Milwaukee has "The Hop", etc. It will be interesting on what they come up with.

My hunch is they will model the look after the new Metro buses.

[Garrett]

Anybody? LOL

I had too much fun with this tonight. But I really, sincerely challenge them to come up with something better. I only wish to be modestly compensated.

Nice late night logo designs! I was thinking something like this would be good.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

The most important part of the brand is the name and marketing campaign that supports it. [...]

Call it the Tom Osborne GBR Heisman Husker Train. That should get people on board (pun intended).

[Dusty]

The most important part of the brand is the name and marketing campaign that supports it. [...]

Call it the Tom Osborne GBR Heisman Husker Train. That should get people on board (pun intended).

HA! Well, if that's the case then call it The Bandwagon Express. Today you can support the streetcar. Tomorrow you will not. Complete toss up day to day. For fun measures, we call our slow train express for the sake of irony. LOL!

On a serious note...we need to have branding that works well with Metro Transit. In time, they will be handling it. It's more than a single train, but one of many services offered by Metro. It could be a name as simple as Metro Mover for the streetcar. I suggest they rename ORBT to something like Metro Zoom, Speed, or anything sounding fast. Then you build a portfolio of services: Metro Mover, Metro Zoom, Metro Flex, etc.

[BuildTaller]

The most important part of the brand is the name and marketing campaign that supports it. The colors, patterns, and logo design come secondary. Omaha Streetcar is too long in my opinion. Kansas City has KC Streetcar, Washington DC has DC Streetcar, Milwaukee has "The Hop", etc. It will be interesting on what they come up with.

My hunch is they will model the look after the new Metro buses.

OMA Rail, OMA Tram, OMA Trolley?
Metro Rail, Metro Tram, Metro Mover?

[Busguy2010]

I think Omaha Streetcar is a-okay. I hate the word tram, as well as trolley. Both are just lazy slang for what it really is. Not a big fan of OMA - (anything) either. I dont really think it needs some sort of "catchy" name other than what it literally is. Omaha Streetcar. Thats why I jumped straight to the logo, because I think Omaha Streetcar is fine.

Just think of what it used to be called - "Omaha & Council Bluffs Street Railway Company" Too long? Too descriptive? Unimaginative? Bland?

Compare it to ORBT. There was actually a graspable campaign to be had there along with the acronym. "Orbit" implies you can reach the outer limits of anything. It was a well executed campaign.

Its hard to find a good one for the streetcar. Only thing I can think of ATM is in Arnold Schwarzenegger voice : "I am... The Deveopmentator".

[SkyWarrior55]

How about River City Rail? RCR. Nickname it the Racer.

[Busguy2010]

How about River City Rail? RCR. Nickname it the Racer.

I like the nascar reference lol

[Dusty]

Anybody? LOL

I had too much fun with this tonight. But I really, sincerely challenge them to come up with something better. I only wish to be modestly compensated.

I looked at this picture again and it made me think of a kids show called "Tayo the Little Bus". Flashback to when the kids were younger. LOL! But it made me think about advertising for the streetcar. Would they create a mascot to add excitement like sports teams do? I'm just thinking of all merchandise that could be sold.