Omaha Streetcar Discussion

[Gobears27]

Do we know what the long term plan for funding streetcar operations is?

In addition to the Florence boulevard line and the council bluffs line are there any other potential extensions being studied?

[almighty_tuna]

the council bluffs line

This was an independent effort by the city of Council Bluffs that will likely not happen now. Their new mayor is not a proponent.

[stadsborgare]

Do we know what the long term plan for funding streetcar operations is?

In addition to the Florence boulevard line and the council bluffs line are there any other potential extensions being studied?

What makes this initial line allowed to be free is the expenses are transferred to added taxes to business owners along the route.

Any future extensions, especially into residential areas or poorer parts of town maybe wouldn't be able to have this special tax as its funding source, so therefore would have to charge fares to ride, I reckon.

[BuildTaller]

Don't forget about the open house this Thursday evening!

https://growomaha.com/grow-omaha-street ... cember-11/

Any new tidbits? Passport program info?

[Zephyr]

Operating costs will actually be largely funded through parking fee revenues (paying for parking at City garages and on-street parking). And yes, extensions would need to come up with some way of financing operations to make it successful. That said, passenger fares typically don't cover much of the operating costs for streetcars, usually about 5-10% for the higher ridership systems.

[djc311]

I know many on here are very Pro-Streetcar... I support it as I believe it can be a great attraction for our city. At the same time, I feel for the businesses that are suffering from the impact the construction is having on them. Ultimately, I'm sure some will end up having to close. I don't see Omaha continuing to fund businesses because of the lack of sales.

[Garrett]

If the original timeline of opening in 2026 was still on the table I'm sure there would be so much fewer issues, but the MUD issues adding 2 years on really hurt the image.

[Busguy2010]

I'm all for the streetcar and the future it carries, but yeah, loss of business during construction was not a consequence I had thought up. As long as Crescent Moon is still around after this construction phase, I will be a-okay.

[stadsborgare]

Happy Mainline Construction Year!

[PotatoeEatsFish]

Could the city do a complex land swap and give the state building site to Mutual for expansion, then take the lot in front of Mutual for a transit center?
It would have stops for the Orbt, streetcar, and (hopefully) a north south Orbt along 13th. It would be the perfect gateway to the park/city.

[Louie]

Could the city do a complex land swap and give the state building site to Mutual for expansion, then take the lot in front of Mutual for a transit center?
It would have stops for the Orbt, streetcar, and (hopefully) a north south Orbt along 13th. It would be the perfect gateway to the park/city.

In theory, sure, but MoO would have no interest in that I’m sure. But does the city own that or the state?

[joleo]

If the original timeline of opening in 2026 was still on the table I'm sure there would be so much fewer issues, but the MUD issues adding 2 years on really hurt the image.

I've followed the KC street car pretty close. How come they didn't have the watermain issues that Omaha had? Anybody in the know on this?

Also, analyzing street view, when KC rebuilt the bridge over the interstate for their construction, they did it a year early but cast the tracks directly into the deck at time of construction, I don't know why Omaha didn't do it the same way, would have saved cost.

[stadsborgare]

If the original timeline of opening in 2026 was still on the table I'm sure there would be so much fewer issues, but the MUD issues adding 2 years on really hurt the image.

I've followed the KC street car pretty close. How come they didn't have the watermain issues that Omaha had? Anybody in the know on this?

KC's line cuts straight down Main Street for the majority of its length, and I guess they didn't have much underground stuff to replace.

Omaha's line on the other hand cuts through neighborhoods where in many places century-old utilities lie underground. These weren't issues so much as they didn't want them to become issues once the track had already been laid. So better to just update everything underground beforehand, and in a way to also accomodate a future increase in urban density so the infrastructure can handle what's to come.

[skinzfan23]

I wish people would understand this, it isn't just the streetcar construction. (for both the timing and cost,) the city is preparing for the future as well.

[MetcalfeHarrison]

If the original timeline of opening in 2026 was still on the table I'm sure there would be so much fewer issues, but the MUD issues adding 2 years on really hurt the image.

I've followed the KC street car pretty close. How come they didn't have the watermain issues that Omaha had? Anybody in the know on this?

Also, analyzing street view, when KC rebuilt the bridge over the interstate for their construction, they did it a year early but cast the tracks directly into the deck at time of construction, I don't know why Omaha didn't do it the same way, would have saved cost.

KC always planned to have the utility work and track work separate, so they completed utilities ahead of the rail contractor coming in. Omaha planned to do everything under one contract but was way over budget so they had to pull utilities out to bid to save money but it slowed everything down. MUD also was a headache through everything and had no interest in being good partners on the project. The bridges were they same thing, originally in the overall package but pulled out for savings.

[Gobears27]

Would it make sense for the city of Omaha to create future streetcar easements. This could be a specific lane of traffic along the route of future streetcars that have been studied but aren’t going to be built yet. This could allow utility companies to make relocation of infrastructure less impactful and do the work over a longer period of time.

[Brad]

Would it make sense for the city of Omaha to create future streetcar easements. This could be a specific lane of traffic along the route of future streetcars that have been studied but aren’t going to be built yet. This could allow utility companies to make relocation of infrastructure less impactful and do the work over a longer period of time.

As far as I know, easements are only on Private Property. Not sure I have ever seen an easement in the right-of-way.

They could plan future routes and let the utilities know, but for the most part, it wouldn't really do anything

[Garrett]

Can someone who is more talented in legalese explain what's going on here? Namely, is this $70 million in new bonds for the project or is this a portion of the previously accounted for $459 million?

https://cityclerk.cityofomaha.org/wp-co ... -44611.pdf

[Garrett]

To answer my own question, it's just the 2026 budget for the project. People on reddit were making this into a mountain despite not knowing |expletive|.

[Linkin5]

Pick a subject you are passionate and know a lot about, then find a subreddit about that subject. You will be absolutely floored how bad the information that flows through that site is. It’s a hive mind of stupidity upvoting each other.

[locoluke]

The City of Omaha is applying for $136k in funding for "Mobility Hubs" along the streetcar corridor.

Omaha’s Streetcar will open in the fall of 2028. The streetcar will run
parallel to ORBT (Omaha’s bus rapid transit system), is intersected by 11
existing Metro Transit bus routes, and will be adjacent to Omaha’s first
planned protected bicycle lane. To further enhance the multimodal nature of
this area, we are creating mobility hubs to concentrate access to multimodal
transportation options, including Heartland Bike Share stations, shared
scooter parking, bicycle parking, wayfinding, and improved Metro Transit
stops. This project will also implement the first on-street micro-mobility
parking options in Omaha.

The planned hubs look to be located at 8th, 24th, and 37th streets.

[WiinterU]

I wonder what the planned designs for the hubs will be.

[locoluke]

A solid write up from Flatwater Free Press about the struggles of the streetcar project.

Goes deeper than just talking about businesses struggling and touches on conflict between MUD and the City that have caused delays and cost overruns.

[skinzfan23]

Decent story but really nothing that hasn't already been mentioned in other media.

As for Addy's specifically, we tried to go there (as did at least 100 other people) after a concert back in October, but they had already closed their kitchen even though it was only 8:45-9 pm. Things like that are on the restaurants, they need to plan better and look at things like the schedule of major concerts/events at CHI, especially when they are a block away.

DJ's Dugout, on the other hand, was prepared. The staff told me that they kept their kitchen open longer, and servers were glad bc they were able to have the extra income boost. Nearly every single person was in a line from Addy's to DJ's and no one was turned away. I can't even imagine how much extra revenue that was for them.

Basically, I am sick of all the construction like everyone else, and thankfully I don't own a business that is impacted. But all I keep hearing are businesses complaining and asking for handouts. I think they should also come up with some creative ideas to get people in. The city has offered parking in the Farnam garage, but according to them, that still isn't good enough.

I want to see all these businesses applauding the streetcar once its up and running and they are benefitting from it.

And one more thing....don't even get started on MUD. They have been non-cooperative with the city from the beginning. They are saying they care about their client's fees, but that surely doesn't show by all the large pay raises for their executives meanwhile, rates keep jumping every year or sooner.

[Garrett]

In a world where Omaha builds another line someday, I hope there have been a lot of lessons learned on how this process can be done better.

[skinzfan23]

In a world where Omaha builds another line someday, I hope there have been a lot of lessons learned on how this process can be done better.

I agree, I think any city has lessons they can learn from a project this big that involves coordinating all these different services all at once. As mentioned before, KC, didn't really have the same problem bc they weren't updating or relocating as many services. I know its a huge pain right now, but Omaha in the future, I am glad they are doing it now.

[buildomaha]

Decent story but really nothing that hasn't already been mentioned in other media.

As for Addy's specifically, we tried to go there (as did at least 100 other people) after a concert back in October, but they had already closed their kitchen even though it was only 8:45-9 pm. Things like that are on the restaurants, they need to plan better and look at things like the schedule of major concerts/events at CHI, especially when they are a block away.

DJ's Dugout, on the other hand, was prepared. The staff told me that they kept their kitchen open longer, and servers were glad bc they were able to have the extra income boost. Nearly every single person was in a line from Addy's to DJ's and no one was turned away. I can't even imagine how much extra revenue that was for them.

Basically, I am sick of all the construction like everyone else, and thankfully I don't own a business that is impacted. But all I keep hearing are businesses complaining and asking for handouts. I think they should also come up with some creative ideas to get people in. The city has offered parking in the Farnam garage, but according to them, that still isn't good enough.

I want to see all these businesses applauding the streetcar once its up and running and they are benefitting from it.

And one more thing....don't even get started on MUD. They have been non-cooperative with the city from the beginning. They are saying they care about their client's fees, but that surely doesn't show by all the large pay raises for their executives meanwhile, rates keep jumping every year or sooner.

It’s really surprising to see the lack of creativity from these businesses. We saw just how incredibly innovative and creative business owners were able to get during a global pandemic. Heck, if some new ideas were tried someone might end up with a hot new concept that’s successful even AFTER the construction is through.

[nebugeater]

Decent story but really nothing that hasn't already been mentioned in other media.

As for Addy's specifically, we tried to go there (as did at least 100 other people) after a concert back in October, but they had already closed their kitchen even though it was only 8:45-9 pm. Things like that are on the restaurants, they need to plan better and look at things like the schedule of major concerts/events at CHI, especially when they are a block away.

DJ's Dugout, on the other hand, was prepared. The staff told me that they kept their kitchen open longer, and servers were glad bc they were able to have the extra income boost. Nearly every single person was in a line from Addy's to DJ's and no one was turned away. I can't even imagine how much extra revenue that was for them.

Basically, I am sick of all the construction like everyone else, and thankfully I don't own a business that is impacted. But all I keep hearing are businesses complaining and asking for handouts. I think they should also come up with some creative ideas to get people in. The city has offered parking in the Farnam garage, but according to them, that still isn't good enough.

I want to see all these businesses applauding the streetcar once its up and running and they are benefitting from it.

And one more thing....don't even get started on MUD. They have been non-cooperative with the city from the beginning. They are saying they care about their client's fees, but that surely doesn't show by all the large pay raises for their executives meanwhile, rates keep jumping every year or sooner.

It’s really surprising to see the lack of creativity from these businesses. We saw just how incredibly innovative and creative business owners were able to get during a global pandemic. Heck, if some new ideas were tried someone might end up with a hot new concept that’s successful even AFTER the construction is through.

How about some examples of what you think this creativity should be? Creativity takes $$. I don't think comparing this to the pandemic is a valid comparison. This is a small bubble of businesses, and during the pandemic, it was everyone, everywhere. Compotition is not the same in these two scenarios

[Erik]

Whatever you do, dont read reddit lol.

Apparently the other cities (OKC, KC etc) experienced the same NIMBY outcry, that we are, while they built theirs.

Now their NIMBYs have embraced their lines.

[djc311]

I'm in support of the streetcar in general. Certainly not here to stir the pot at all, because I feel in the end it will be a great addition to the city.

I do feel for those that are being seriously impacted by the construction - especially if it's going to take years before things are back to normal for most of them. I can't imagine many people are frequently visiting them during this because of the headaches everyone is facing to go around the road closures, parking messes, etc.

I don't have the solution - I don't think anyone does.

[Brad]

The solution is simple. If you are a streetcar supporter, you should be supporting business along the line. Stop eating at Pizza Hut, Texas Road House, Applebee's, Burger King, Culvers, and all the other garbage in this town and go downtown/midtown and support these local businesses that need you. I was in the Blackstone yesterday and it was a ghost town. You could literally park in front of any business you want. We went to Jay's (Formerly Bob and Willie's) and the place had less than a dozen people there. There are enough streetcar supporters in this town, these businesses would not be having problems if all the streetcar supporters supported them.

[Busguy2010]

There's only a few longstanding businesses along the line that I'd be sad to see fall casualty to the streetcar construction. The rest are fairly new, so if they don't make it, its just natural recycle repeat IMO.

[Louie]

The solution is simple. If you are a streetcar supporter, you should be supporting business along the line. Stop eating at Pizza Hut, Texas Road House, Applebee's, Burger King, Culvers, and all the other garbage in this town and go downtown/midtown and support these local businesses that need you. I was in the Blackstone yesterday and it was a ghost town. You could literally park in front of any business you want. We went to Jay's (Formerly Bob and Willie's) and the place had less than a dozen people there. There are enough streetcar supporters in this town, these businesses would not be having problems if all the streetcar supporters supported them.

This is it. Make it a point to go to these businesses, order from them, etc.

[nebport5]

The solution is simple. If you are a streetcar supporter, you should be supporting business along the line. Stop eating at Pizza Hut, Texas Road House, Applebee's, Burger King, Culvers, and all the other garbage in this town and go downtown/midtown and support these local businesses that need you. I was in the Blackstone yesterday and it was a ghost town. You could literally park in front of any business you want. We went to Jay's (Formerly Bob and Willie's) and the place had less than a dozen people there. There are enough streetcar supporters in this town, these businesses would not be having problems if all the streetcar supporters supported them.

This is it. Make it a point to go to these businesses, order from them, etc.

Yes and yes.

This is the appeal these businesses need to start directing to the streetcar is the antichrist social media crowd. If they could get even a fraction of these people to get off their arses, come down and see that in fact you can still access and support these businesses, I’d bet the livelihood of most of these establishments wouldn’t be in doubt.

There are a ton of local restaurants with the majority of their sales being to/go delivery. I know many anti-streetcar people are doing just that for the affected businesses and it helps and is appreciated. However, if delivery people can still access these places to pick up your food there’s no reason you can’t come down to Noli’s or Izzy’s to stuff your piehole in person. Whether even picking up in person or dining in It’s certainly better for the restaurant to give your money directly to them vs third party food apps.

[Garrett]

The solution is simple. If you are a streetcar supporter, you should be supporting business along the line. Stop eating at Pizza Hut, Texas Road House, Applebee's, Burger King, Culvers, and all the other garbage in this town and go downtown/midtown and support these local businesses that need you. I was in the Blackstone yesterday and it was a ghost town. You could literally park in front of any business you want. We went to Jay's (Formerly Bob and Willie's) and the place had less than a dozen people there. There are enough streetcar supporters in this town, these businesses would not be having problems if all the streetcar supporters supported them.

I've obviously not driven down in the area in some time, but is it really that bad, or is it the Omaha mindset of "If I can't park directly in front of my destination I might as well not go" bad?

[arch_RP_planner]

The solution is simple. If you are a streetcar supporter, you should be supporting business along the line. Stop eating at Pizza Hut, Texas Road House, Applebee's, Burger King, Culvers, and all the other garbage in this town and go downtown/midtown and support these local businesses that need you. I was in the Blackstone yesterday and it was a ghost town. You could literally park in front of any business you want. We went to Jay's (Formerly Bob and Willie's) and the place had less than a dozen people there. There are enough streetcar supporters in this town, these businesses would not be having problems if all the streetcar supporters supported them.

I've obviously not driven down in the area in some time, but is it really that bad, or is it the Omaha mindset of "If I can't park directly in front of my destination I might as well not go" bad?

A VAST majority is "If I can't park directly in front of my destination I might as well not go", but I will say, the randomized locations of road closures does make navigating around more difficult... easy solution, use your GPS.

[skinzfan23]

I've obviously not driven down in the area in some time, but is it really that bad, or is it the Omaha mindset of "If I can't park directly in front of my destination I might as well not go" bad?

A VAST majority is "If I can't park directly in front of my destination I might as well not go", but I will say, the randomized locations of road closures does make navigating around more difficult... easy solution, use your GPS.

My exact thoughts. For Creighton games, we park over by Petit's and walk. Its only 5-6 blocks away. People I tell act like we are crazy. What is crazy is paying $10-15 to park in a parking lot that it takes 30 min to get out of after an event. Street parking over there is only $.50/hr.

But unfortunately, most people in Omaha aren't willing to walk more than a block. I always phrase it "if this was Chicago and you could park 5 blocks away that would be amazing" and most people would agree with that.

[Athomsfere]

The solution is simple. If you are a streetcar supporter, you should be supporting business along the line. Stop eating at Pizza Hut, Texas Road House, Applebee's, Burger King, Culvers, and all the other garbage in this town and go downtown/midtown and support these local businesses that need you. I was in the Blackstone yesterday and it was a ghost town. You could literally park in front of any business you want. We went to Jay's (Formerly Bob and Willie's) and the place had less than a dozen people there. There are enough streetcar supporters in this town, these businesses would not be having problems if all the streetcar supporters supported them.

I've obviously not driven down in the area in some time, but is it really that bad, or is it the Omaha mindset of "If I can't park directly in front of my destination I might as well not go" bad?

When we have gone, it hasn't been that bad. Some sidewalks closed, an extra block of walking here and there.

How bad is it really? A 1/10, still better than going further west.

[Dusty]

It's easy to say go support local if you're in favor of the streetcar, but it doesn't address the mindset of using transit to get around. I have been saying this for years....you have to build trust that transit is more convenient than driving and parking. We continue to spoil people with the idea of parking 5 feet from the front door. Years ago, we had that gas explosion in the Old Market. The area was fenced up for a long time. Businesses suffered from loss of customers in the area. They saw a construction zone and kept driving. We did not learn our lesson back then. Business success is not about easy car parking, but accessibility of foot traffic.

You can break people into 3 categories: Pro-streetcar, neutral, anti-streetcar. Most fall under neutral. They are the impressionable ones that follow the bold one in the room. You can say they are the bandwagon supporter. If 1-2 talk positive, then will chime in like they are part of the group. Same works in reverse... anti-streetcar pulls in neutrals to push their rhetoric.

This is why I have been saying for over a year the city massively dropped the ball on messaging. We knew businesses would struggle during construction. Yet we shrug our shoulders as if it's part of progress. There are so many ways to be supporting these businesses. Metro transit is sleeping at the wheel too. They should be aggressively marketing to park at nearby garage and ride the last mile in. All we hear from them is they drove a bus down the street for a parade. Who cares, Metro!

[Busguy2010]

To be fair, Metro has also been affected by streetcar construction, and well actually, they're looking at alternatives to avoid Farnam and Harney altogether once the streetcar starts running. Which kinda sucks IMO, because the bus running down Farnam/Harney is probably twice as quick any given day.

When it comes to patronizing businesses along the route, sure you can still drive and park, but that isn’t quite going all the way, if you will. There are quite good options for using the bus instead. You're really only limited by the last trip which is usually around 9, 10, 11, depending on the day.

For those down South, you can park at MCC South and take the 3 to 40th and Farnam for an afternoon in Blackstone. You can do the same or park at the zoo and board the 13 for a Creighton game at CHI.

For those Southwest, the 15 runs along Center, and theres a good number of grocery stores to park at along the route, which takes you through Blackstone along Harney and downtown by Douglas and Dodge. Drops off at 14th & Dodge, so about a 6 block walk for a Creighton game. Its really not that bad when you walk out the door after the game, walk to the bus stop and still see people filtering out of the parking lots. It feels funny knowing darn well of the 17,000 people there, you are likely the only one that took the bus. Crazy though.

Of course, out West, theres ORBT, only a two block walk from anywhere along Farnam.

There's plenty of options there, you really just have to have the want to do it. If I ever am doing anything Downtown like a Creighton game, CWS, or just for a stroll around, I always take the bus. It saves the headache of looking and paying for parking, even without all the construction. Ive driven through a few times since streetcar/Mutual construction started and its a real nightmare IMO.