Plan in the works for Downtown Omaha Grocery stores

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:20 am

Yesterday I talked to a lady who is being hired to work as a caterer at the Cubby's in DTO. Apparently they are going to try and revamp themselves. Well they are surely going to try and clean themselves up to try and take advantage of the new development. I hope they try and become more of a full-blown Wohlner's or Trader Joe's.

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:00 pm

Cubbys is already bigger than Wohlners, but I'm glad they're going to revamp.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:03 pm

I'm referring to style and products more or less.

OPlaya · Post by **OPlaya** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:43 pm

Sounds good.

omaproud · Post by **omaproud** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:48 am

Anybody ever use that supermarket at 30th & Leavenworth? Can't remember the name of it. That's pretty close in. I've never been there, but it looks clean and OK from the outside. No one on the forum ever mentions this as a downtown store.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:02 am

I've shopped there a few times. It could be a DT store but I think people are pushing for one more towards the CBD/OM area.

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:20 am

omaproud wrote:Anybody ever use that supermarket at 30th & Leavenworth? Can't remember the name of it. That's pretty close in. I've never been there, but it looks clean and OK from the outside. No one on the forum ever mentions this as a downtown store.

Maybe because it's not downtown? ;)

-Big E

omaproud · Post by **omaproud** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:05 pm

OK, then, if 30th street is not downtown what is the western edge of "downtown"?

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:18 pm

30th is more mto then dto.

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:20 pm

I would say at absolute furthest west it would be 480. Otherwise, maybe around 20th or so. Probably depends on where you are north/south as well.

I would be more willing to group 30th in with Midtown than Downtown.

I smell another urban/suburban discussion brewing... ;)

-Big E

OPlaya · Post by **OPlaya** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:03 pm

30th St to me has always been outside of downtown going north and south.

urbanista · Post by **urbanista** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:24 pm

the conversation on this thread reminds me how having so much land is omaha's biggest problem. no physical land feature to force us to desify/use our land more wisely. therefore, inexpensive surface parking will always be the norm - especially considering the costs of underground.

of course getting a grocery store downtown is the best thing that could ever happen. but does the good still outweigh the bad when it has a parking lot the size of the qwest center's lot? [a slight exaggeration!] the best cities in the world operate with tons of small grocery stores littered throughout neighborhoods. but they also have lots of immigrants who want to own and run these stores.

there has to be a middle ground for omaha. what is it?

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:57 pm

I don't think anyone is pushing for, or expects, a Baker's size store to come in. Places like Wohlner's would be perfect. I don't think it's sunk into anyone that has the power to do so that a grocery store DT would be a success. Someone would have done it by now.

CapitalGuy · Post by **CapitalGuy** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:16 pm

Trust me people have surely looked into a grocer in DT Omaha it is probably just not feasible yet. After all what research have you done to support your assertion that a grocery store downtown would be a success? Store owners and developers aren't playing with Monopoly money, they have to pay the bills which means they need to be absolutely sure they will have the customer base to bring in the revenue. As was said in another thread by an Admin, a store is still probably 2-3 years from being a reality in downtown Omaha. It will happen just not in the very immediate future.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:32 pm

How can it NOT be feasible?

Can someone quote the population (and projected population) of downtown residents, not to mention the thousands of people that work down there everyday, and all the people in a certain radius.

It's ludicrous that certain services, including at least ONE ligitimate grocery store, are lacking from downtown, the DENSEST area of the city!!!

It shouldn't even be a quesion. What the heck?

Coyote · Post by **Coyote** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:37 pm

I Hear ya. I got them in touch with Central Market at a forum meet.
I just have to say it will happen - and when it does - it will be post material!

psl25201 · Post by **psl25201** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:57 pm

Talked with a member of the Omaha Chamber of Commerce tonight as well as a member of Creighton's Board of Directors and he said that there are two grocery stores coming to DTO and MTO. The one that he told me specifically about was MTO. It will be with the new Mutual of Omaha development project.

The other one will be more incorporated for Creighton students as well as people living in DTO. He didn't give me any specifics however on that one.

I also asked him specifically about the light rail throughout DTO and he said that it is more of a dream than a reality right now. Costs outweigh the benefits at this point in time. He mentioned that perhaps in time when the downtown population really starts to boom, that perhaps it might be more feasible.

Creighton is ahead of schedule on its way to raising its goal of 350 million dollars for its Capital Campaign. The Living and Learning Center is still on schedule to be completed by Fall 2008.

Also, a study of North Omaha/North Downtown is apparently going to be done within the next year by the Chamber to discuss future development of North Omaha as well as North Downtown.

He also still alluded to the fact that there are companies looking to relocate employees here because they are "blown away by what Omaha has done and are doing." Who knows what that means.

This city is moving. There is no letting up on the gas pedal right now.

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:34 pm

StreetsOfOmaha wrote: Can someone quote the population (and projected population) of downtown residents, not to mention the thousands of people that work down there everyday, and all the people in a certain radius.

I think a Downtown Omaha grocery is not only very feasible, but an eventual necessity..And I believe we'll see one constructed before the end of this decade..The current DT population is probably close to 8000..With the condo influx, we should add close to 2K to that number in a couple of years..I've always maintained that by 2008, we'll see construction of a DT grocery store..

And thanks for that info update psl25201..Good stuff!..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:42 pm

psl25201 wrote:[Lightrail] is more of a dream than a reality right now (that's an understatement). Costs outweigh the benefits at this point in time.

And if he says that, then I'm not sure he fully understands the benefits.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:49 pm

I agree, Cowboy....I think it will happen within the next decade

.

Again, I have to reiterate: What the heck? We're talking 8,000 residents JUST IN DOWNTOWN, thousands of commuters who work there everyday, and surrounding neighborhoods with limited or NO convenient grocery store access.

Yet meanwhile...out in Sunnyfieldvillagedalemeadows they plop a grocery store down at the drop of a hat near any planned subdivision, and this is in the sprawling, less dense suburbs.

I just don't get it. It seems crazy that it's even a quesiton of feasibility downtown.

psl25201 · Post by **psl25201** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:24 am

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:
psl25201 wrote:[Lightrail] is more of a dream than a reality right now (that's an understatement). Costs outweigh the benefits at this point in time.

And if he says that, then I'm not sure he fully understands the benefits.

I don't know if he "fully understands" or not, but just because it is a great idea, which I agree it is, doesn't make it economically feasible for a city.

He said that each foot of the light rail would cost approximately $1 million dollars. If that is true, then no way in heck does that make economic sense.

ps. Don't shoot the messenger.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:29 am

I still think someone should at this point be proactive. Con a grocery store to come in and then not let any other store to ever come down there. Let them have all the glory and sales.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:31 am

psl25201 wrote:
StreetsOfOmaha wrote:
psl25201 wrote:[Lightrail] is more of a dream than a reality right now (that's an understatement). Costs outweigh the benefits at this point in time.

And if he says that, then I'm not sure he fully understands the benefits.
I don't know if he "fully understands" or not, but just because it is a great idea, which I agree it is, doesn't make it economically feasible for a city.

He said that each foot of the light rail would cost approximately $1 million dollars. If that is true, then no way in heck does that make economic sense.

ps. Don't shoot the messenger.

It doesn't cost that much per foot or no place would have it. And you'd be surpriesed how not a pipe dream rail is for Omaha. The way I've heard it explained to me is that even though light rail won't be purely for commuters it will be best for spurring development. Say we could get $100M worth of development in North DT without light rail. Now add in light rail and you can get $500M worth of development. How does that not make economic sense? It's wroked in many other cities.

As far a grocery store DT this is the point I tried making awhile back. If the residential population of DTO is around 8,000 why is it a small town can have more retail?

For example Auburn, NE (which I'm familiar with) has less than 4,000 people but has 2 grocery stores. One is much smaller than the other (like Wholner's vs Hyvee.) They also have a few general stores to pick up stuff for your house like TP, or trash bags and things like that. Having just moved DT that's one thing we could use is some sort of everyday retailer.

Maverick · Post by **Maverick** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:50 am

Where are we getting this 8000 downtown residents figure? Did we get that form a source I missed? That seems to me, a downtown resident for the past 4 years, to be an incredibly high estimate. I quick look around and I see, at most, 600 - 800 apartments, and maybe 400-500 condos. At the high end of that estimate, your talking 1300 units. Round up if you want to 1500 units, and say, 1.5 people per unit, and that puts you and 2,225 residents downtown... which still seems very, very high to me.

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:15 am

If you add the DT census track according to the 2000 census, nearly 5500 people lived downtown at that time..

Unofficial extimates ranging from 7000-8000 have been used pretty freely for the past 2 years..And I don't think that estimate range is far off at all..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:08 pm

And its not slowing down any time soon.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:48 pm

psl25201,
I didn't mean to "shoot you" as it were. I appreciate the information you provided. PLEASE continue to do so!!!

And as far as $1 million per foot!!!! Ha! Absolutely not. Where is this guy getting his info?

DTO made good points with regard to economic benefits of light rail.

There's not a SIGNLE transit system in the WORLD that I know of that turns a profit. That's not what they're meant for. They provide an essential service that increases property values, quality of life, and economic development.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:01 pm

I think a grocer in North DT has the potential to lure a store that would want a bigger parking lot. I'm kind of leary of that since I don't want to see the area gobbled up by parking lots. Also It would be to far removed from the residential core.

But if you have light rail around it would be nothing to hop on the train and go grocery shopping.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:09 pm

I think, as the WTO rendering alludes, that a grocery store on the Capital Ave side of that building would be nearly the perfect location.

It is on the northern edge of downtown, puting it in a possition to serve downtown residents, including those in the Old Market, as well as downtown workers and commuters, as well as north downtown residents/workers and Creighton kids.

Seems like a winner.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:12 pm

I hope it does end up getting a grocer. It's right in the middle of DT.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:09 pm

Its just years off though.

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:45 pm

DTO- Trader Joes tends to open stores that have fairly small parking lots. The parking lot directly to the east of the Dundee Hardware store is about that size.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:45 pm

Speaking of that auction is very soon. ^

lonnie · Post by **lonnie** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:17 pm

DTO Luv wrote:As far a grocery store DT this is the point I tried making awhile back. If the residential population of DTO is around 8,000 why is it a small town can have more retail?

The small town is surrounded by corn fields and pasture. DTO is surrounded by retail and grocery stores... hence the difference.

Lonnie

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:44 pm

lonnie wrote:
DTO Luv wrote:As far a grocery store DT this is the point I tried making awhile back. If the residential population of DTO is around 8,000 why is it a small town can have more retail?
The small town is surrounded by corn fields and pasture. DTO is surrounded by retail and grocery stores... hence the difference.

Lonnie

Surrounded by grocery stores?????

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:17 pm

Yeah they seam to be complete opposites. Makes no since.

lonnie · Post by **lonnie** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:41 pm

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:Surrounded by grocery stores?????

Maybe I wasn't clear? ... since the Omaha metro area is loaded with retail and grocery stores surrounding DTO the need to fill the DTO area is less.

Anyone living in DTO can get anything they want if they simply travel a few miles. If this was not the case, there would be more retail in DTO.

Yes "MTO" it seems like a paradox, but rather, free markets at work.

Lonnie

CapitalGuy · Post by **CapitalGuy** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:19 pm

Lonnie - you stated exactly what I wanted to say in such a clear way. You definitely hit the nail on the head. Any person with background in business or economics would clearly see why there is not a grocer in DT Omaha at this time. Everyone needs to remember this isn't Field of Dreams you don't build it and they will come. If you did that you can almost bet that will be the last time you build anything. If you are a business man you need to have hardcore assurances that you have a market present. DT Omaha has high property values relative to suburbia which kills a store's bottom line by the way (another reason beyond not yet having enough customers in the area)

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:46 pm

That's a valid point about porperty values.

I think what some of us are saying (and this is where comparisons to small towns or subdivisions come in) is that DTO should be self suficient. People shouldn't have to hop in their cars and LEAVE DTO to get essential services. It's the state's most urban area and should be a dense, walkable environment offering all the diverse, mixed-uses and ammenities that people need in their daily lives.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:20 am

Exactly Streets. If a building was so expensive how would Wohlner's turn down FREE RENT? That seems obvious that people are desperate to fill this void. DT does have enough residents to support some kinds of retail. A grocery store would be supported DT.

If you build they WILL come.

I live DT and when I was looking at places and going on tours the main thing I kept hearing over and over and over again is that people wanted a grocery store. People were open to the idea of walking to grocery shop. But alas they don't have this option or convenience, so they were hesitant at buying. So I think in this situation that it is build it and they will come.