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Big E
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Post by Big E »

djc311 wrote:And, needless to say, I have yet to see anyone, a single person, on here post a response saying "Oh I don't care that I have to switch cell providers to use it, and I definitely don't mind the $600 price tag for an 8gb iPod (with attached phone functions) - so I'll take 3!"
Go to a Mac forum and you'll see thousands of those. Seriously.

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Post by djc311 »

Big E wrote:
djc311 wrote:And, needless to say, I have yet to see anyone, a single person, on here post a response saying "Oh I don't care that I have to switch cell providers to use it, and I definitely don't mind the $600 price tag for an 8gb iPod (with attached phone functions) - so I'll take 3!"
Go to a Mac forum and you'll see thousands of those. Seriously.

-Big E
Considering all of the PC "haters" on here, why hasn't anyone posted on here :)
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Post by nebport5 »

ok toss me into the PC(Piece of |expletive|) haters category. I'm already an at&t/cingular subscriber so I wouldn't have to switch. But if I wasn't, that would mean I would have Sprint, Verizon, T-Mobile or US Cellular, in which case I'd probably be happy to switch.

However, I already have a ipod and a good phone, so I don't feel the need to run out and get an iphone.

If I didn't have an ipod and good phone I wouldn't mind spending $499 for the two. I probably spent about that on the other two separately.


If the iphone has good reception and battery life I'm sure it will do well. The price will adjust to the market.
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Post by Uffda »

I think it'll be more of the younger teens-20s generation that will be attracted to this.
One analysis
The iPhone looks to be popular among 30-something, college-educated men with average household incomes of $75,600, which is about 26 percent higher than the national average, according to a new survey conducted by Ontario, Canada-based Solutions Research Group. About half of these potential iPhone buyers don't own iPods, the survey said.
http://www.twincities.com/allheadlines/ ... ck_check=1
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Post by lonnie »

Just a quick FYI:

Safari 3
Both Mac OS X and Windows
http://www.apple.com/safari/

I have been using it today, and I really like it. I have had problems in the past with Safari, particularly with SSL sites, but so far I have not found any major problems with Safari 3 on Mac OS 10.4.

Safari 3 is a basic browser, RSS, system spelling checker, resize input text boxes, etc.

It does feel quite speedy. Definitely worth a look.

Lonnie
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Post by djc311 »

lonnie wrote:Just a quick FYI:

Safari 3
Both Mac OS X and Windows
http://www.apple.com/safari/

I have been using it today, and I really like it. I have had problems in the past with Safari, particularly with SSL sites, but so far I have not found any major problems with Safari 3 on Mac OS 10.4.

Safari 3 is a basic browser, RSS, system spelling checker, resize input text boxes, etc.

It does feel quite speedy. Definitely worth a look.

Lonnie
Hey Lonnie - I just download it for my Vista machine here at home. It works pretty well. Looks nice, too.

D
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Post by Uffda »

from WWDC keynote
Apple CEO Steve Jobs announced at the end of the WWDC keynote that the iPhone would be released on June 29th at 6pm at AT&T Wireless and Apple Stores in the United States.
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Post by lonnie »

djc311 wrote:
lonnie wrote:Safari 3
Both Mac OS X and Windows
http://www.apple.com/safari/
I just download it for my Vista machine here at home. It works pretty well. Looks nice, too.
Here is a very interesting, easily read (and short) article describing the text rendering philosophies between Redmond and Cupertino.
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/200 ... ml?hi=joel

Safari on Windows uses Apple's text rendering technique.

Lonnie
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Post by guy4omaha »

Below is an article providing another viewpoint anticipating the iPhone impact.

By Tom Krazit, CNET News.com
Published on ZDNet News: June 22, 2007, 7:27 AM PT



Some may be tired of Apple's iPhone already, a week before it launches, but Warren East does not fall into that category.

The chief executive of mobile-processor designer ARM thinks that the iPhone will spur the adoption of smart phones by consumers who have found the current offerings too clunky or hard to use. With his company's designs inside something like 95 percent of all the smart phones in the world, that would be good for business.

East is too savvy to directly comment on whether Apple is using a chip based on one of ARM's designs, which ARM licenses to companies that actually make the chips. But ARM is by far the dominant architecture used in this world, almost the same way the x86 architecture dominates the PC industry.

ARM has been moving into other markets of late, making a push into areas like digital cameras, printers and digital set-top boxes. But the company is famous within the tech industry because of its unique position within the mobile-handset world, which is already much bigger than the PC industry and is still growing at staggering rates. East recently sat down with CNET News.com to discuss the state of ARM, as well as Apple's first attempt at playing inside his realm.

Q: So the core business still remains the mobile-phone business.
East: From a business point of view, we don't really distinguish between the two. At our level, a core that is good for a mobile phone is also good for all the other products I mentioned.

Do you see that as something that will change in the future, as these devices become more specialized?
East: Not really. One could get more and more specialized, but our business model is that we don't do that. We license intellectual property to semiconductor companies, and if we start doing very customized things for a particular product, then there is no room for our licensees to differentiate and compete. It doesn't make good business sense for us to do that.

I'm slightly generalizing because we do have a dozen or more different flavors of our microprocessor cores. Some cores, people will license from us for use in deeply embedded microcontroller-type applications, things like Cortex-M3. Things like Cortex-R4 finds a lot of use in things like hard-disk drive controllers and will find it's way into printers and those type of things.

Then there are the application processors, the things like the 926, the 1176, the Cortex-A8, and they're developed to support heavyweight operating systems like Microsoft (Windows), Linux, Palm.

Mac OS?
East: (Laughs) You'll have to talk to Apple about Mac OS.

With the iPhone coming up, we've been talking a lot about the future of mobile devices. What's your take on all that?
East: When they (Apple) launched the iPhone, they said (they expected to sell) 8 million units, something like that. Some people asked us, why are you getting particularly excited about that because, you know, there's a billion phones (sold a year), and 8 million isn't going to make any difference.

I'd say, "Well, it isn't just Apple's contribution directly, it's the contribution that they make through gearing." If you look at what they did to MP3 players, MP3 players is a category of devices where there were lots of ARMs shipped for years, and then Apple came along with the iPod, and in a space of 18 months to two years, that whole thing was transformed. Then MP3 players are being shipped in volumes about 10 times more than they were being shipped before that.

I think it's that sort of second-order effect that we'll see in the smart-phone space with the iPhone; it's actually stimulating lots of other people to go and bring out their own devices.

Why is that because of the iPhone and not any of the other smart phones that are out there?
East: Well, frankly, I think the other players are all a bit sort of...They needed somebody like Apple to come along and shake them up a bit. I mean, Nokias are pretty good (pulls out his N95 smart phone), but this N95 is probably, in some ways, just a little bit shy of an iPhone.

It's the industrial design and the user interface design, which is different. This (gestures at the N95) is constrained by the user interface that you get with the Symbian operating system. And Nokia has a legacy of industrial design. You wouldn't actually need the Nokia (logo) on there to know that it was a Nokia phone. That's a good thing, but it's also slightly a constraining thing. Likewise, you probably don't need to know that it comes from Apple when you see the iPhone.

The different thing about Apple is the combination of the industrial design and the user interface. It creates a desirable product, and from what I've seen in the demonstrations of the user interface, a very usable product as well. Whereas quite a lot of the user interfaces you find are actually quite clunky. They're written by engineers for engineers rather than by engineers for consumers.

Do you think that's because of the fact that Apple controls so tightly the hardware and the software development as a joint effort?
East: Yeah, I think the hardware and software should be inextricably linked in most of these digital products, and historically, they haven't been. And that is a constraint.

If you go visit some parts of the world, and you talk to the software group, and you to talk to the hardware group, you might be talking to two different companies; and not surprisingly, those companies don't perform so well.

Why have you managed to maintain the market share that you have?
East: Because of our ecosystem. You know, with a microprocessor, it isn't just a microprocessor. It's what it takes to build the product and deliver a user experience that's good on that product. No one company can do all that. We have 400-plus companies in our ecosystem, and nobody else does that.

What's preventing them from doing that?
East: The fact that we're doing it, actually. I mean, it's a little bit flippant, but if you're an operating-system company, then you want to supply your products to the biggest possible market so you can get as much money as possible for your operating system. So you're going to look to support an architecture that will take you to the biggest market.

That's the processor that you'll support. ARM has better operating-system support than its competitors, and so we get more market share. We'll become a more attractive target for an ecosystem company, and so the cycle repeats itself. We put quite a lot of effort into that, actually.

In terms of the overall smart-phone market, when do you anticipate that that a handset will become less of a high-end device for executives or business travelers and more of a mainstream device?
I think we're a couple of years away, probably, but as I said, I think the iPhone is going to make a huge difference.

Is it price or features? Why do people need to be convinced that (smart phones) are worth it?
East: Well, it's a bit of both. Some of it's price, some of it is that the technology just hasn't been good enough.

You just need a more efficient engine in order to deliver the multimedia features that people expect and want. If you're not a sort of a technology freak, then as a user, if you have a disappointing experience with something like that--if there are some features there, and it works, but it really doesn't work very well--then you don't go back and buy that for quite a long time.

So the technology availability has definitely been a problem holding back smart phones because you're limiting the market to only those sorts of people who are very tolerant and very prepared to tolerate, frankly, inferior quality.
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Big E
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Post by Big E »

Other tidbits:

Apple is now the third largest "retailer" of music in the United States, behind only WalMart and Best Buy, ahead of both Amazon.com and Target:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07 ... ailer.html

To save my life, I can't find how the numbers are determined... is it sales of singles, dollar sales, or what?

Regardless, that's pretty amazing company for someone that didn't exist four years ago.

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Post by Brad »

Travis is reporting on Big Sports 590 that betus.com one of the on-line gambling places has 20 to 1 odds that someone is going to be trampled when the Iphone goes on sale.
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Post by djc311 »

Brad wrote:Travis is reporting on Big Sports 590 that betus.com one of the on-line gambling places has 20 to 1 odds that someone is going to be trampled when the Iphone goes on sale.
I would have taken that bet when the Wii or PS3 first came out on opening day - but Apple "users" won't trample one another. So, I'd bet against it happening. Plus, a kid who saved up his lawn mowing $$$ for 6 months to buy one won't be able to activate it or sign the 2-yr minimum service contract. Therefore, kids can't really do anything with it on their own, unlike a video game system.

D
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Post by Stargazer »

You don't have any teenagers do you?

I don't know too many kids today who aren't playing those video games via paid online subscriptions either.

But who says kids are doing the trampling? I think the iPod has gained more than enough 'acceptance' among even the lower tiers of American society ... that we could definitely see some trample action (heck, just think of the eBay white trash alone ... who are just looking to turn a quick profit). :)
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Post by djc311 »

Shall we place a small wager on anyone being seriously wounded during the spectacular, amazing, extremely exciting release of the iPhone on Friday night?

I'd be willing....

I don't see anyone doing a driveby in the parking lot at VP Friday during the chaos of the release of the Apple phone. But, who knows - I'm certainly no expert, but it sounds to me like $600 phone + $100/month internet service w/ e-mail, and limited talk minutes = super awesome value.

I own some Apple stock, but the more costs that area associated w/ owning this beast, the more skeptical I am during this initial launch period. I'd love to see this thing do phenomenal, but there's got to be some reality to the situation. First, you have to be willing to sign a new 2-YR contract. Second, you drop $600 on the phone. Then, to be true, spend another $100/month for one phone's line of service. So, the first year, you have almost $2000 wrapped up in a cell phone w/ music & internet. Vs. a Palm Treo that you can purchase for nearly any carrier in the US?

And, I'm not seeing much in the way of the hype surrounding this thing as a real computer as in functions. Most pro-iPhone enthusiasts are saying it runs OS X. However, Apple certainly isn't marketing the phone as a Mac, they're marketing it as a phone w/ music & internet connectivity. I know I'm going to take a lof ot heat from those out there that are going to get all high and mighty on this thing, but again, as I posted before, how many of you have pitched your tent at VP to stay in line to buy one???? Exactly

D
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Post by Uffda »

$100/month internet service w/ e-mail, and limited talk minutes
according to apple's website there looks to be less expensive plans than 100/month.
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Post by icejammer »

Analysis: iPhone's Rate Plan Is Actually Pretty Good
Apple and AT&T released details on their rate plans for the iPhone on Tuesday, and the service plans are on par with what you'd get with other phones – though you get fewer text messages for your money. . .
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Post by MTO »

If the iPhone had 3g and at least 30gig of memory i would be in my tent now.
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Post by djc311 »

MTO wrote:If the iPhone had 3g and at least 30gig of memory i would be in my tent now.
Exactly -

I know Apple's a HUGE innovator - but why would they start off almost backwards on some things, but so far ahead on others. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but AT&T being their sole service provider sucks, and there are still some limitations, which should be considered pretty important, that they kept off this first series, but are still charging $600 for.

Of course, again, there's going to be those that would argue this is a "steal" @ $600 - but come on - Apple's making money on this thing right out the door, before contracts for service. Therefore, it's the most profitable cell phone in probably a decade almost. They could have offered something better than this I think for the $$$ and the service rates. But, I guess only time and consumers will tell when it's released on Friday night.
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Post by lonnie »

Dustin,

I guess businesses that offer free WiFi (like the Omaha Chocolate Company) will be a big draw for network craving iPhone users.

Lonnie
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Post by djc311 »

lonnie wrote:Dustin,

I guess businesses that offer free WiFi (like the Omaha Chocolate Company) will be a big draw for network craving iPhone users.

Lonnie
I hope so - however, I don't know how I can prevent these folks from sitting in the parking lot outside my front door picking up the signal??? :)

D
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Post by icejammer »

lonnie wrote:I guess businesses that offer free WiFi (like the Omaha Chocolate Company) will be a big draw for network craving iPhone users.
From the article linked above:
Another detail revealed today: yes, you will need to get a service plan, including data, to activate the iPhone. You can't just use it over Wi-Fi for free.
So there you have it...
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Post by TechnicalDisaster »

I stopped by the Apple Store at lunch today to pick up Parallels for my new Macbook. There were no lines yet, but the employees had started putting up the barriers for the iPhone line outside. There is a ton of hype, but I have a feeling there will not be a circus like the media is expecting.
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Post by Uffda »

bradley -- let me know how parallels works -- i bought a macbook awhile ago.
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Post by Big E »

Uffda wrote:bradley -- let me know how parallels works -- i bought a macbook awhile ago.
It works great. I love it. I am using v2 and will be upgrading to v3 shortly.

The hardest thing I had to train myself on was that you have to treat the Windows "machine" as if it were a second computer on a network. So, if you have an Excel file on the Mac side, you have to put it in a shared folder if you also want to use it on the Windows side. But it's really quite simple once you train your brain that you are on two computers instead of one. It's weird when you can copy/paste from a Windows app to a Mac app, but you have to route everything else through a network alias. Depending on how savvy a user you are, you'll figure it out anywhere between 5 minutes and never. :)

I am under the impression that v3 works in a manner that you really don't even have to look at the Windows side if you don't want to: Windows apps right in the Dock.

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Post by MTO »

Did any of you fascist who went to village point this evening see any campers at the Apple store?
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Post by Uffda »

I was reading about it and Version 3 let's you drag and drop from the mac side to the windows side and from Windows to Mac without going through a folder setup.

Not sure I am going to do it but a couple of the programs I have to use at school -- attendance and grades --- is windows based. :?
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Post by TechnicalDisaster »

MTO wrote:Did any of you fascist who went to village point this evening see any campers at the Apple store?
\
There was no one waiting in line as of noon yesterday. I'm getting out of work early today and I might swing by to see if there is any craziness going on.
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Post by TechnicalDisaster »

Big E wrote:
Uffda wrote:bradley -- let me know how parallels works -- i bought a macbook awhile ago.
It works great. I love it. I am using v2 and will be upgrading to v3 shortly.

The hardest thing I had to train myself on was that you have to treat the Windows "machine" as if it were a second computer on a network. So, if you have an Excel file on the Mac side, you have to put it in a shared folder if you also want to use it on the Windows side. But it's really quite simple once you train your brain that you are on two computers instead of one. It's weird when you can copy/paste from a Windows app to a Mac app, but you have to route everything else through a network alias. Depending on how savvy a user you are, you'll figure it out anywhere between 5 minutes and never. :)

I am under the impression that v3 works in a manner that you really don't even have to look at the Windows side if you don't want to: Windows apps right in the Dock.

-Big E
In version 3 they added a feature called "Coherence" that lets you right click on a file and choose what application you want it opened in for both operating systems. If you have an excel file on OSX you choose to open it in Windows. If you have a file in Windows, you can choose to open it in OSX. You can also copy and paste files between the operating systems if you so desire. I should have my laptop and software today, and I will be setting it up this weekend and I'll let you know how it goes.
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Post by djc311 »

bradley414 wrote:
MTO wrote:Did any of you fascist who went to village point this evening see any campers at the Apple store?
\
There was no one waiting in line as of noon yesterday. I'm getting out of work early today and I might swing by to see if there is any craziness going on.
I'm stunned.
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Post by MTO »

Well I guess if no one in Omaha wants to show up then hopefully someone will drive in from where they already sold out and get one.
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Post by TechnicalDisaster »

MTO wrote:Well I guess if no one in Omaha wants to show up then hopefully someone will drive in from where they already sold out and get one.
According to Apple's website, two AT&T stores in Omaha will be selling the iPhone as well as the Apple Store. The Apple Store is also open till Midnight. Why stay open so late if you know you have a really limited supply? The only reason to stand in line is to say you got yours first. I doubt Apple will sell out in Omaha.
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Post by MTO »

I know even in SF people are not going to ATnT stores only the Apple stores.
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Shoot for the Moon... if you miss, you'll land among the stars.
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Post by TechnicalDisaster »

Uffda wrote:bradley -- let me know how parallels works -- i bought a macbook awhile ago.
I'm just now getting the hang of it. It is really slick stuff. I have a lot to configure though. I installed boot camp and run XP in another partition. My Parallels install points to the boot camp partition. If you install that way, you have to authenticate XP under Parallels as well. I had to call microsoft and get a new install key to make it work. I need to play with it some more before I could really reccomend it to anyone.
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Post by shengs75 »

is it true the new iPhone can't even have custom ringers???
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Post by Brad »

[youtube][/youtube]
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Post by djc311 »

Too funny - :twisted:
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Post by Uffda »

iPhone: the Musical Video by David Pogue


[youtube][/youtube]
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Post by Uffda »

I guess the Apple Store is going to be closed the week of August 20-25 for remodeling.
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Post by djc311 »

Uffda wrote:I guess the Apple Store is going to be closed the week of August 20-25 for remodeling.
Yeah - it's pretty outdated - almost archaic. I hope they finally put in some modern electronics and equipment.