Leytham, A New Traditional Neighborhood

[Coyote]

Don't be frustrated Herb. You just needed a % where a blank space was. That website gave a bad bbCode url.

[Herb]

Coyote,

Thanks for your help. I would have never ever been able to figure it out.

Herb

[Coyote]

After 30 spins I got Leytham Life - the High Life (aka Miller Beer).
But I like better something like: Leytham Place - the Village of the Prairies.

[Herb]

Coyote,

I can not help it . . . .

Four out of five dentists recommend Leytham Life.
Stop. Go. Leytham Life.
Got Leytham Life?
Gotta lotta Leytham Life
Leytham Life Wanted
The Leytham Life of champions
Silly Rabbit! Leytham Life is for Kids
Make room for Leytham Life!
Leytham Life is good for you
You Live the Leytham Life, We do the Rest
The Incredible, Edible Leytham Life
Things go better with Leytham Life
Plop, Plop, Fizz, Fizz . . . Oh What a Leytham Life it Is.
Hand Built by Leytham Life
Look for the Leytham Life Label
Strong enough for a man, but made for a Leytham Life
Choosy Mothers Choose Leytham Life

[Coyote]

After I posted that 'Theme" I thought of something.
Many years ago - and I think it is still there - there was a natural prairie preserve
north of Standing Bear Lake around 132nd and Fort?

What would it take to ask a development only to use natural plantation?
Prairie flowers and cottonwoods...

Turn the acreage back to what it naturally was. For the ages!

[Fnord Explorer]

There's something about just "building a town from scratch" that makes me a little queasy. Part of the culture of a town is the way it grew and where it headed from there. This seems like just another form of cookie-cutter suburbanism. Personally, I think if you're looking for a quaint historic-feeling neighborhood, move to one that already exists!

[Big E]

There's something about just "building a town from scratch" that makes me a little queasy. Part of the culture of a town is the way it grew and where it headed from there. This seems like just another form of cookie-cutter suburbanism. Personally, I think if you're looking for a quaint historic-feeling neighborhood, move to one that already exists!

Someone built those historical towns from scratch, too, you know.

And I'll take this suburban cookie cutter approach over, say, all of the other ones ever tried.

-Big E

[Fnord Explorer]

There's something about just "building a town from scratch" that makes me a little queasy. Part of the culture of a town is the way it grew and where it headed from there. This seems like just another form of cookie-cutter suburbanism. Personally, I think if you're looking for a quaint historic-feeling neighborhood, move to one that already exists!

Someone built those historical towns from scratch, too, you know.

And I'll take this suburban cookie cutter approach over, say, all of the other ones ever tried.

-Big E

Sure, but a factory-installed "town" like this idea seems to propose comes off as a little contrived to me. In every other city I have lived in, the general population fled to the burbs and let the city proper itself rot into slums. When I moved here I always said that the biggest thing I appreciate about Omaha is that its downtown and urban centers were thriving places where people didn't abandon culture in order to live in some overly-polished, sterile, soulless color-by-numbers neighborhood off a beltway with strip malls full of the same chain stores as far as the eye can see. I hope that is not where Omaha will be headed ten years from now. That would really depress me.

[Omababe]

This seems like just another form of cookie-cutter suburbanism.

I really don't understand all of it, but from what I can see it's a planned community but very atypical of the curves and cul-de-sacs and little pink houses of suburban spew. More like a walkable know-your-neighbors kind of place with less dependence on the automobile.

However, what I don't understand is the current location. I'm not familiar with it, I admit, but unless I'm mistaken it's WAAYYYyyyy out in the middle of nowhere, with no public transit (are the developers gonna spring for a trolley line out there?) and none to come for quite a while, just reinforcing the need for 2-3 cars for each family out there. I can't even think of any expressway even close out there. Route 680 is several miles to the east and Dodge would be several miles to the south if I'm correct here.

[Stargazer]

For anyone new to this development, wondering 'why at 168th and State??' please read... 

http://www.whatsnewonstatestreet.com/info/founder.html

The developer Herb Freeman regularly chimes in here on the forum.

[Big E]

When I moved here I always said that the biggest thing I appreciate about Omaha is that its downtown and urban centers were thriving places where people didn't abandon culture in order to live in some overly-polished, sterile, soulless color-by-numbers neighborhood off a beltway with strip malls full of the same chain stores as far as the eye can see.

You are talking about Omaha, Nebraska, right?

-Big E

[Raraavis]

This seems like just another form of cookie-cutter suburbanism.

I really don't understand all of it, but from what I can see it's a planned community but very atypical of the curves and cul-de-sacs and little pink houses of suburban spew. More like a walkable know-your-neighbors kind of place with less dependence on the automobile.

However, what I don't understand is the current location. I'm not familiar with it, I admit, but unless I'm mistaken it's WAAYYYyyyy out in the middle of nowhere, with no public transit (are the developers gonna spring for a trolley line out there?) and none to come for quite a while, just reinforcing the need for 2-3 cars for each family out there. I can't even think of any expressway even close out there. Route 680 is several miles to the east and Dodge would be several miles to the south if I'm correct here.

The developer owns this land that is why it is being built way out there. Do you have an equal size empty plot downtown you are willing to trade him for? If you don't like this you are free to live anywhere in the city you want to. Midtown Crossing and Aksarben Village are very nice developments closer into the city with plenty of public transit so the kind of development YOU want is being built in the city. Some of us are happy living in the suburbs 'way out there' but we would like a more pleasant and people friendly neighborhood and we are finally going to get that as well.

[Uffda]

I can't even think of any expressway even close out there. Route 680 is several miles to the east and Dodge would be several miles to the south if I'm correct here.

Why do you need an expressway? 3 miles north you could hit Highway 36 --- you could take State St and in about 5 miles hit I-680 or if you want Dodge Expressway --- 5 miles south.

[Brad]

Why do you need an expressway? 3 miles north you could hit Highway 36 --- you could take State St and in about 5 miles hit I-680 or if you want Dodge Expressway --- 5 miles south.

Exactly Paul. Northwest Omaha is way easier to negotiate than southwest. That Blair high exit on 680 can get you ANYWHERE in a matter of min. You can also hit Blair high to Sorenson parkway, to north freeway and be downtown in 15 to 20 min. Change north freeway to storz and be at the airport in the same amount of time.

[Stargazer]

Northwest Omaha is way easier to negotiate than southwest

Let's see how much easier it is when it has the same number of people as southwest Omaha.

[Herb]

I have been out of town for the last eight days and I come back to see a bit of a flurry on the Leytham thread. That pleases me. I have always welcomed the dialog and the interchange of ideas. In succeeding days I will have some comments to add to the recent discussion, but for now, I want to update you on my travels.

My schedule first took me to Pittsburgh for the fall meetings of The Realty Alliance. The Realty Alliance is an idea exchanging and brainstorming group that also has demonstrations, panels and expert speakers on current topics all related to the residential real estate brokerage business. I have been a member for twenty years. And guess what? At these meetings there was a section on New Urbanism for the first time. Imagine that . . . the country's largest real estate brokers learning about new urbanism! This was a major milestone for The Realty Alliance and a very good sign that confirms what is happening more and more across the country.

From Pittsburgh I flew to Chicago for the fall meetings of the National Town Builders Association. This is a group of developers who create some of the county's best new urbanist projects. We had panel discussions and presentations on a wide range of topics. Here are some samples from the program:

"Livable Cities Presentation: Healthy Cities for Children’s Social Development” – Featuring Dr. Suzanne Crowhurst Lennard, Founder and Director, International Making Cities Livable Conferences and Publications

"Charter Schools: How to Attract and Retain Families in Challenging School Districts” – Featuring Stephen Gilchrist, Southern Educational Solutions

"Connecting Children with Nature” - Featuring Beth Dowdle, The Conservation Fund and Myrna Johnson, National Forum on Children and Nature, The Conservation Fund

“Not Just a Pretty Building: Making Churches, Schools, Libraries and Community Support Organizations a Real Part of the Community” – Featuring Doris Goldstein, New Town Law and Jan Pomerantz, Catalyst Corps, LLC and Board member of the I’On Trust

“YMCA: How to Use Family Oriented Institutions to Help Build Community In TNDs” – Featuring George Stazin, Director of Facility Consulting YMCA; Steve Dahlin YMCA Chicago; Joel Embry, Home Town Neighborhoods; Doris Goldstein, New Town Law; Jan Pomerantz, Catalyst Corps; Moderator: David Mayfield, Mayfield Development

“Social Events and Festivals to Facilitate Community Building in Your TND” – Featuring Kelli Stevens, Mayfield Development; Christine Walker, HomeTown Community Life Director; Moderator: Bob Turner, Habersham Land Company

I think you can see from these topics, that the emphasis of the conference was clearly on making life better, richer, more interesting and rewarding for the residents of new urban neighborhoods. I will share more about some of these topics in future posts.

Our group of town founders toured a new traditional neighborhood of of one of our members called "HomeTown," founded by Bigelow Homes in Aurora, Il. This greenfield new traditional neighborhood follows the principles of new urban neighborhoods very closely. HomeTown has:

• high density,
  a mix of housing types and price points,
  a mix of uses,
  an interconnected network of streets,
  wonderful civic spaces,
  a defined town center,
  a site reserved for a church,
  parking for nearly all dwellings to the rear of houses and buildings,
  houses close to the street with front porches, and
  houses that are not even on streets but rather on greens and courts

Vist HomeTown here: http://www.bigelowhomes.com/HomeTown_Aurora/

From Chicago it was off to St. Louis where I visited Whittaker Homes' project called "New Town at St. Charles." This is the best selling neighborhood of any type (including all the conventional sprawl subdivisions) anywhere in a sixteen state region. In less than two years over six hundred homes have sold.

Go here to visit New Town: http://www.newtownatstcharles.com/.

I spent a day and a half in this very impressive new traditional neighborhood. The town architect shared three hours with me. I talked with the town founder. I visited with an off duty county sheriff (two out of four of whom live in New Town) who patrols the neighborhood at night in a very cool black and white PT Cruiser, and I spoke with a number of neighbors who were out walking, and a St. Charles town planner who lives in a beautiful cottage (one of six in a row, all of which are identical) on a 26 foot wide lot. New Town is achieving 7 dwelling units per acre. This is done by having apartment mansions, bungalow courts, accessory dwelling units and other creative dwelling types. If you ever are in the St. Louis area, be sure to visit New Town at St. Charles. You will be impressed.

And from the comfort of your computer chair, be sure to visit the photo album of HomeTown and explore all the sections of the photo gallery of New Town on their respective websites. You will begin to get the flavor of the kind of place that the new urban design principles combined with good execution can create.

Yours for the continuing dialog as we work toward creating the better places that we all crave,

Herb

[Coyote]

Sounds like interesting topics there Herb - how a developer can help create a social fabric in a new development with YMCA, Libraries, Churches...

[Megan]

Herb, do you have any updates on Leytham and where it's at in the planning and city approval process?

[cdub]

The City approved the Prelim Plat some time ago. Herb is probably working on the final plat and getting some money into the project.

[Erik]

this is a very nice project, and I hope it goes through and from what I see is actually far better than an average suburban community..

Right now I am in San Diego and have seen neighborhoods in San Francisco, LA, Fresno and San Diego this last few days, one thing to note is that this is a type of cookie cutter neighborhood..

There is one type of cookie cutter which has no uniqueness to the rest of the developers and then there is a cookie cutter, but with a special look and it seems that this trend is not just an Omaha thing, but rather something that you see in larger cities and thank god that suburban developers are looking at Omaha like a city that can sustain these unique neighborhoods..

Something else to note is that there are lots of people that like to live in a Mid-town/Down-town type setting, but there are people that like suburbs also... Why do we have to have one or the other? If we are going to grow into a large city we cannot be closed minded and just develop one area of town!!

I have done some soul searching while here in California and something that I have noticed is that there are (proportionately) less high-quality developments in the suburbs but I imagine it has to do with the cost of living.. With all due respect, San Diego and San Francisco are very nice cities and probably some of the better ones in the US, but I love my Omaha and am thrilled to be a part of this city while it obtains its big city status.

[unlkid]

I'm not sure how many of you are aware of a similar project underway in Lincoln. It is within the section of land bounded by 56th st. on the west, 70th st. on the east, pine lake rd. on the north, and Yankee hill rd. on the south. You guys need to check it out.

http://www.villagegardenslincoln.com/

[joeglow]

I am glad they are doing this as it looks cool….for those who want it. Personally, I love nature too much and like some level of privacy. I do not want to be right on top of my neighbor. If I want to talk, I am not so lazy that I can’t walk a quarter mile to visit.

[Bobcat]

Any new news on this project? No word from Herb on this forum since October of last year. The last “blog” on his website was in September. The project was announced with much fanfare in 2006, yet seems to have fizzled out. Herb, if you’re reading this, is grading going to start this spring? How is the development of the sales center coming along?
Keep it going Herb! Please make the city’s “first new traditional neighborhood” a reality.

[Herb]

Thanks for your interest in Leytham, Bobcat.

Despite my lack of correspondence, there has been a lot happening behind the scenes to advance Leytham, and so I am very pleased to provide you and all of our readers with an update of new information we have not yet released.

As you may recall, Leytham received unanimous preliminary plat and zoning approval of both the Planning Board and the City Council last summer. Since preliminary approval we have been refining the original plans while moving the approval process forward. We are working now on:

• Final changes to the site plan, including reconfiguring some blocks and streets. This will alter some of the blocks (generally while creating larger rambles in the interior of the blocks) while still preserving the basic block structure that is so unique to the Leytham design. The site plan changes we have made have include defining the characteristics and route of Rachel Snowden parkway as required by the city; making the streets on each side of the wet lands on the east side of the neighborhood one way and narrowing them so as to form a boulevard with the wetlands as a median; changing lot dimensions for down slope lots in three blocks; adding a civic lot and expanding two others including the church site; plus a host of minor changes. As soon as the site plan is ready, I will post it here for your review.

• Finalizing the Leytham Neighborhood Regulation (LNR) that will control the building forms and the mix of permitted uses in Leytham. By way of background and/or review, you may recall that in order to facilitate the mix of uses in Leytham, we have established Leytham as a “Neighborhood Conservation District” with its own zoning and development document called the “Leytham Neighborhood Regulation.” The Leytham Neighborhood Regulation is based on the SmartCode as calibrated for Leytham. But, to create Leytham as a mixed-use, walkable neighborhood, the requirement that a neighborhood be at least 25 years old before it could be established as a Neighborhood Conservation District was removed by the City Council. This enabled the adoption of the LNR to permit the mixed uses and to develop the standards and forms that are unique to Leytham. The realization of the City Planning Department staff, the Planning Board and the City Council was at once very simple and very progressive: “If something is worth conserving, it should not matter how old it is.” This innovative approach has the effect of conserving Leytham even before it is built, and is a first for the Omaha area, and perhaps a first in the country according to some new urbanists I have share this with. However, meshing the city’s current MU (Mixed Use) zoning code with the Leytham Neighborhood Regulation is a detailed and exacting task and it is taking time to get it all right.

• Resolving the other conditions to final approval, none of which are significant.

We expect final approval plat and zoning approval for Leytham this spring or early summer, and this should (pending development loan financing and SID financing – see below) allow us to start the grading and infrastructure later this summer or early this fall. We should have buildable lots in the first phase of 82 lots in the last part of 2009 (unlike most conventional subdivisions in our area, the Leytham neighborhood will be completed in several phases so that build-out will proceed in an orderly and coordinated way.) This timing should make homes in Leytham available for the spring market of 2010. I believe the current market conditions will be resolved by then and that this will be “perfect timing.”

Concurrently with completing the entitlement process, we are working on a new website, on refining the architectural code for the neighborhood and on developing house plans for the various lot typologies and product types in Leytham. In fact I have engaged a nationally recognized traditional neighborhood designer, Lew Oliver, to work on the architectural code and sample home plans for Leytham. Among his many other clients, Lew is town urbanist for Hedgewood Properties. Hedgewood is creating some wonderful new traditional neighborhoods in the Atlanta area. I toured those neighborhoods in November in conjunction with a Seaside Institute new urbanism conference I attended. Although the Atlanta market’s cost structure varies considerably from Omaha’s, you may get a feel for Lew’s work by visiting these Hedgewood neighborhoods. To see home photos and floor plans just click on "Homes For Sale" in each neighborhood.

Vickery http://www.hedgewoodhomes.com/neighborh ... aspx?cid=2

Woodstock http://www.hedgewoodhomes.com/neighborh ... aspx?cid=9

Glenwood Park http://www.hedgewoodhomes.com/neighborh ... spx?cid=12

Once Lew Oliver’s Leytham home plans are developed, I can take them to selected area home builders and see which of them are interested in building in Leytham. With builder commitments, I should be able to get the necessary SID underwriting.

With all of these items in process now (the final stages of the entitlement process, a new website, the architecture code for the neighborhood, and sample home plans), Leytham is any thing but “fizzled out.” It simply takes orders of magnitude more time, energy, effort and attention to detail to do a wonderful new traditional neighborhood than another conventional sprawl subdivision. I hope you understand.

As always if you have any feedback or impressions to share, or questions to ask or if you would like any other information, please don’t hesitate to contact me.

Best regards to all who follow this thread,

Herb

[Coyote]

Thanks again Herb. Glad to hear everything is moving along!

[NDizona]

I have been researching dozens of subdivisions lately - Many have been struggling while some have been doing pretty well.

Whats interesting to me is that so much development is occurring between Omaha and Blair. 3 years ago I would have predicted Gretna to continue to grow with all of the buzz around 204th and the growth oriented leadership in the town. Today - its completely overbuilt and sales have come to a stand still.

(Hofer's, Sudbeck's, Lincoln Place http://www.rpapc.com/download/lincolnplace.pdf Covington, .... list goes on and on)

Funny enough - Washington County seems to be getting a resurgence and for the life of my I don't understand why. The only thing I can think of is the Street of Dreams (Cottonwood Creek)...

The developments south of Dutch Hall seem to be hit or miss - with no obvious rhyme or reason. Developments like Woodlands Crossing http://www.rpapc.com/Download/Woodlands ... rption.pdf which are well conceived and designed are in a slump while others are only slightly off 2005 sales.

You have probably obviously been researching this - how do you think this market will react to subdivision initially? Are you expecting a big year one or do you think it will take some time to catch on? Why do you think Northwest Omaha Metro has been getting so much attention? I am very excited to see how your development unfolds. Good Luck!

[Herb]

Market annalists who study demand for walkable, denser mixed-used living always say that one third of the market wants to live in a traditional neighborhood; one third will never want it (because they want their large lot suburban sprawl subdivisions); and one third are open to going either way. Some of this one third to one half of the market that wants walkable, mixed-use living will move to established areas (downtown and Dundee come to mind). But some want new construction or suburban locations and those buyers will be frustrated that good choices are not available for them, and so they will be opt for what they really do not want - conventional, low-density, unwalkable, dependent sprawl. This is where a new, greenfield traditional neighborhood comes into the market dynamics.

All market demand studies for new traditional neighborhoods show that between 10 to 15 percent of the those likely to move within a new traditional neighborhood's "draw area" annually will buy in a well executed, well marketed TND. Those are VERY FAVORABLE demand numbers. Draw areas are quite large for a new TND especially if it is the first and only such neighborhood in the market. And so 10% of those likely to move in a year within such a draw area is a large number of home buyers. This means that Leytham's first phase of 80 or so homes should be sold pretty rapidly, especially compared to the slow absorption rates for conventional sprawl subdivisions.

Sales experience in new traditional neighborhoods shows that initial sales rates are invariably much slower than sales rates in succeeding phases. This is because much of what a buyer in a new traditional neighborhood buys is OUTSIDE the home, in the "streetscapes" and throughout the neighborhood in the neighborhood itself. Initially these benefits are not so readily apparent because there are no houses at first and then there are only a few as sales build. But after several streets get built out and the character of the neighborhood is revealed and readily discernible, sales rates pick up very substantially. This also accounts for the rapid price appreciation in well done new traditional neighborhoods and why the first buyers get such great values.

Thanks for asking!

Herb

[NDizona]

Whats the closest most comparable subdivision?

[Herb]

PS to my post of 12:56 today:

The value that the streetscape and the neighborhood add to the basic house value in a new traditional neighborhood has implications:

"Price per square foot" buyers have to be educated to value their real estate with a different mindset. After all, they ask, why pay more for a smaller lot? Why do houses in a TND usually sell for more per square foot? There are reasons that relate to the house itself such as superior design, higher quality materials, more energy efficiency, etc. But there are also reasons that are outside the house. The so-called "volume buyers" have to come to see and appreciate that part of the reason that houses in new traditional neighborhoods sell for more per square foot is that much of the value of the home is OUTSIDE the house itself. If they can not see that, those buyers move on to the conventional sprawl subdivision and buy by the foot. Many buyers get the "TND Value Proposition" intuitively and see the increased value instantly. Others come to see it very fast, and still others never see the value. Those buyers are simply eased graciously out of the sales center with a cordial wave and directions to the nearest conventional sprawl subdivision.

Appraisers have come to see the value that the street and the neighborhood add to the basic value of the house as a stand-alone construction. Price per square foot comparisons with houses in surrounding conventional sprawl subdivisions substantially undervalue homes in the new traditional neighborhood. Appraisers have to learn how to value the intrinsic components of the new traditional neighborhood that make it so desirable.

Herb

[NDizona]

Appraisers have come to see the value that the street and the neighborhood add to the basic value of the house as a stand-alone construction. Price per square foot comparisons with houses in surrounding conventional sprawl subdivisions substantially undervalue homes in the new traditional neighborhood. Appraisers have to learn how to value the intrinsic components of the new traditional neighborhood that make it so desirable.
Herb

Herb - We KNOW! I don't want to downplay the unique qualities of your development but...We deal with that kind of stuff all the time. It's Appraisal 101. Granted this kind of analysis is more typical for the added value of lakes and other externalities but its the same thing. (I mean its not the same thing but its the same principal) If you want a hard problem - I can give you some....like predicting year 1 and 2 sell outs.

[Herb]

I am very pleased to hear that Omaha area appraisers are adept at imputing value external to the specific structure itself when determining the overall, total value of a property. These are the values created by great design and execution at the property level, the street level and the neighborhood level.

From my travels to and studies of new traditional neighborhoods around the country, I can tell you that this is not always the case. In many new TNDs appraisers have consistently undervalued properties (especially in the first phase) because (1) some of the product types (ie the individual types of structures themselves) are new to the area and so have no comparables, and (2) the streetscapes and neighborhoods themselves are of such a different (dare I say "superior?") character and type that they too have no comparables in the conventional sprawl developments that surround them. It is great to know that should not be the case here.

Yours for the dense, walkable, mixed use new traditional neighborhood,

Herb

[NDizona]

I personally know at least 7 other commercial appraisers that are more than competent to deal with the subdivision as a whole and probably 10 residential appraisers (some are the same as the commercial appraisers) could handle dealing with the individual homes (phase 1 - after phase 1 most of them should probably be able to figure it out). The rest would probably base the value on nearby typical subdivisions.

I will say Omaha has its share of bad

1) Lenders

2) Realtors

3) and yes Appraisers

Generally - the larger the community - the more specialized appraisers are. Here its not typical for appraisers to specialize in just one area. I know a couple that only appraise apartments but generally - most commercial appraisers work on office, retail, industrial, apartments - then specialize in one or two other areas. Mine is residential condos and subdivisions. Another guy in the office specializes in medical and golf courses (they go together), you get the idea.

Most people that say they get a bad appraisal generally don't research the people they hire - they get the one with the lowest bid. Other times they get a great appraisal but they don't want to know what the development is REALLY worth - they want a number for a loan.

[Herb]

Saaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy, THERE's an idea! If I wanted a great appraisal to get a loan who would I hire? <grins

[amt1356]

Herb,

Back in March, you said you were hoping for final plat and zoning approval this spring or summer. Has that happened? Do you still think grading will begin this year?

AMT

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Wow. REVIVAL.

Is there any recent word on this? Anyone been out there?

[Uffda]

I go by it about once a week on the way out to Elkhorn. Still looks like it did when this thread was started.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

I'm sad to hear that. I hope Herb sees this and gives us an update.

[cdub]

The update is that Herb is still committed but having trouble getting going. He is now in the process of getting his preliminary plat re-approved because it was about to expire. Still in the works but nothing coming out of the ground any time real soon.

[Harpoon]

I'm not holding my breath on Herb pulling this one off, the market isn't really there for a TND that far outside of the urbanized area. There are many more opportunities for infill development like Cristian Cristiansen is undergoing with the Towns and SOMA projects, as well as the blank slate in North Downtown. The Council Bluffs project at the end of the ped bridge also is better poised for development.

[gisbuxfan]

You'll have to excuse my ignorance from the rest of this post, I hadn't been following it, but I just got back from Omaha this weekend moving my folks out to the 156th & State area. I asked about the big house on the hill and my dad told me it was a part of the Leytham development. The house itself is pretty impressive! The area is beautiful and pretty quiet out that way right now. I never spent any time out that way, I do know its a big turn around from when I was in high school and kids went out there for the "state street jump" which killed a few of my classmates back in the 90's. Anyways, I am looking forward to learning more about this one!