Omaha Streetcar Discussion

[Athomsfere]

the 'fun' factor of the streetcar was being discussed in the 'at what point are upgrades needed' thread and I will say that while we want this to be used as a real/viable addition to the transportation fabric, it is also something that will be used by out of towners as something to do while in Omaha. During the time KC opened their streetcar, we were down there visiting family. We had a few hours to kill between things, so we were going to get a bite to eat and see union station/crown center. We went down, parked, found the line and took the kids on it- it was their first time ever being on such a thing, and they were beyond amazed. We enjoyed it a lot, too. We got off at union station and took the street car back to our car after we walked around. The street car was for utility, sure, but it also made for a level of fun that would have otherwise just us being in the car, bitching about trying to find somewhere to park

I certainly look forward to when friends and family who usually drive everywhere are in town. We can hit Blackstone and the old market while parking zero times. ORBT from Dundee, and then circulate around Blackstone, MTC, and the OM as we want. Maybe even hit the Green Room.

[Garrett]

the 'fun' factor of the streetcar was being discussed in the 'at what point are upgrades needed' thread and I will say that while we want this to be used as a real/viable addition to the transportation fabric, it is also something that will be used by out of towners as something to do while in Omaha. During the time KC opened their streetcar, we were down there visiting family. We had a few hours to kill between things, so we were going to get a bite to eat and see union station/crown center. We went down, parked, found the line and took the kids on it- it was their first time ever being on such a thing, and they were beyond amazed. We enjoyed it a lot, too. We got off at union station and took the street car back to our car after we walked around. The street car was for utility, sure, but it also made for a level of fun that would have otherwise just us being in the car, bitching about trying to find somewhere to park

It’s like how people spend thousands to visit Disneyworld to then be amazed, ride the monorail to the park, and then go car free the rest of the day, or car free completely if you’re a guest at the resorts.

[Athomsfere]

It’s like how people spend thousands to visit Disneyworld to then be amazed, ride the monorail to the park, and then go car free the rest of the day, or car free completely if you’re a guest at the resorts.

Or a trip to Europe / Japan.


I've honestly joked about starting a "new urbanism" tourism fund. Lead informal trips abroad, and when able fund raise to take random people from the USA to more "developed" cities roughly the size of their city abroad.

Let them deal with why a city of 500k in a metro of 1 million people is so much more livable when they get home to Omaha, KC or wherever.

Guerilla charity education, lol

[Garrett]

It’s like how people spend thousands to visit Disneyworld to then be amazed, ride the monorail to the park, and then go car free the rest of the day, or car free completely if you’re a guest at the resorts.

Or a trip to Europe / Japan.


I've honestly joked about starting a "new urbanism" tourism fund. Lead informal trips abroad, and when able fund raise to take random people from the USA to more "developed" cities roughly the size of their city abroad.

Let them deal with why a city of 500k in a metro of 1 million people is so much more livable when they get home to Omaha, KC or wherever.

Guerilla charity education, lol

Right. My sister went to Paris recently and talked about how nice it was to just spend times at sidewalk cafes and the like and I’m just sitting here like

[iamjacobm]

Looks like a crew had been taking core samples in the street on Farnam in Midtown/Blackstone this week. Assume it’s for the streetcar engineering work.

[thenewguy]

Does anyone have insight on the progress for the streetcar line? It seems like there's an awful lot of work that should have been happening if they plan on opening in 2 and a half years....

[Dusty]

Does anyone have insight on the progress for the streetcar line? It seems like there's an awful lot of work that should have been happening if they plan on opening in 2 and a half years....

They are finalizing the design still. Start construction summer of 2024. Open winter of 2026

The timeline is listed on the website for Omaha Streetcar Authority
https://omahastreetcar.org/

Also states rides on streetcar will be free. I'm guessing this will be for the introductory year like ORBT did??

[iamjacobm]

Does anyone have insight on the progress for the streetcar line? It seems like there's an awful lot of work that should have been happening if they plan on opening in 2 and a half years....

They are finalizing the design still. Start construction summer of 2024. Open winter of 2026

The timeline is listed on the website for Omaha Streetcar Authority
https://omahastreetcar.org/

Also states rides on streetcar will be free. I'm guessing this will be for the introductory year like ORBT did??

Supposed to be free to ride long term. The city is going to fund operations through income from metered parking and parking garages the city owns. Apparently, that is projected to cover annual operating costs. No clue where that money is going currently though, I assume the general fund.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

I can add that the expansion to CB continues to be in motion.

[Garrett]

I can add that the expansion to CB continues to be in motion.

I'm just aware that they're exploring federal funding, which is quite the lengthy process, but do you know more?

[Dusty]

CB Mayor said it would be $80-100 million just to build a bridge across the river from Heartland America Park to Dodge Park (Currently the golf course). This includes a bike/pedestrian path along the bridge. This is not counting the cost to run the rail to downtown CB with stations and all. I wouldn't be surprised if total cost is more than the Farnam streetcar.

I have always liked the idea of restoring the land between the former Union/Burlington Station. Use the current tracks and bridge there to cross the river to Harrahs. From there you can cut through Dodge Park to 2nd Ave. Or you can split this into two rail projects: Original plan of Heartland American Park to Dodge Park to downtown CB and a short line from Durham Museum to Harrahs. I just think it would be a lot of fun to eat dinner in downtown Omaha and then ride a short rail across the river for a Stir Cove concert. Plus, it would be a great way to make this area into an interesting district. I will dub it as "The Railyard."

[daveoma]

Looks like a crew had been taking core samples in the street on Farnam in Midtown/Blackstone this week. Assume it’s for the streetcar engineering work.

Ignorant question here, but if the tracks are going to be laid on top of the street, why would they need to take core samples?

[iamjacobm]

Looks like a crew had been taking core samples in the street on Farnam in Midtown/Blackstone this week. Assume it’s for the streetcar engineering work.

Ignorant question here, but if the tracks are going to be laid on top of the street, why would they need to take core samples?

I am no engineer, but I imagine the rails settling due the weight of the cars would be a problem to avoid.

[thenewguy]

Does anyone have insight on the progress for the streetcar line? It seems like there's an awful lot of work that should have been happening if they plan on opening in 2 and a half years....

They are finalizing the design still. Start construction summer of 2024. Open winter of 2026

The timeline is listed on the website for Omaha Streetcar Authority
https://omahastreetcar.org/

Also states rides on streetcar will be free. I'm guessing this will be for the introductory year like ORBT did??

that makes more sense then. I just kept thinking somewhere in early or mid 2026, but since it is the end of 2026, they could almost just say '2027'

[TitosBuritoBarn]

I can add that the expansion to CB continues to be in motion.

I'm just aware that they're exploring federal funding, which is quite the lengthy process, but do you know more?

I don't really know to what level my knowledge is connected to the process of acquiring federal funding. It didn't come up. I'm also not sure how secretive my knowledge is supposed to be so all I'm comfortable saying is that the ball is in play.

[Athomsfere]

I can add that the expansion to CB continues to be in motion.

I'm just aware that they're exploring federal funding, which is quite the lengthy process, but do you know more?

At the meeting back in March, I asked a couple of the people there about the expansion and they basically said they were looking at the expansion with CB and it sounded like federal funds were already being looked at. Partly because money from elsewhere is good, but also because apparently that might impact what trains we can even consider in phase II (Buy American).

Details are fuzzy 5 months later in my head though.

[Dusty]

Even if the CB extension was approved for funding, they still have to go through the whole process (studies, planning, and building). What kind of timeline would that be....10 years?

[ita]

Even if the CB extension was approved for funding, they still have to go through the whole process (studies, planning, and building). What kind of timeline would that be....10 years?

Based on the KC wiki, they started taking official actions starting in 2017, got federal funding in late 2020. It's currently schedule to open in 2025. I don't know how they are going to do the federal funding request without the initial line not even started construction, but say they get an application in next year and we extrapolate KC's first extension and apply it here. 2030 completion of the initial CB extension, ie. the multimodal bridge and initial tracks from the NP Dodge to 35th St.? That would get NP Dodge Golf Course redevelopment going in the 2030's.

[Dusty]

Even if the CB extension was approved for funding, they still have to go through the whole process (studies, planning, and building). What kind of timeline would that be....10 years?

Based on the KC wiki, they started taking official actions starting in 2017, got federal funding in late 2020. It's currently schedule to open in 2025. I don't know how they are going to do the federal funding request without the initial line not even started construction, but say they get an application in next year and we extrapolate KC's first extension and apply it here. 2030 completion of the initial CB extension, ie. the multimodal bridge and initial tracks from the NP Dodge to 35th St.? That would get NP Dodge Golf Course redevelopment going in the 2030's.

So 7-8 years in a perfect world. 10 years for setbacks to happen. Even getting an extension from downtown Omaha to Dodge Golf course development would be huge for both cities. This is why I suggested running the line from the former Union Station. Use the existing bridge to Harrahs to cut down on cost. Then you can run right through the gold course as planned.
By putting the line there, it would prompt Omaha to get that extension to the zoo.

[Athomsfere]

I'm torn on a zoo expansion. I'd love to see the streetcar just go everywhere, Florence, South O... Get the city hooked on rail so we can perfect it with LRT or even a subway ;)

But the Zoo extension in a more real world scenario seems like a big waste. Tons of parking for those from the exburbs, not much density to compete with the parking that is there. Really, running a new ORBT line past the zoo and on to South O makes more sense to me now...

[Dusty]

I'm torn on a zoo expansion. I'd love to see the streetcar just go everywhere, Florence, South O... Get the city hooked on rail so we can perfect it with LRT or even a subway ;)

But the Zoo extension in a more real world scenario seems like a big waste. Tons of parking for those from the exburbs, not much density to compete with the parking that is there. Really, running a new ORBT line past the zoo and on to South O makes more sense to me now...

I'm fine with using a standard bus to the zoo. But a lot of people like the idea of a streetcar expansion along 10th/13th Street. For me, it's more about strengthening the Little Italy neighborhood with a zoo stop. We can always step up the route to rail if we feel necessary. Realistically, the CB extension has the highest probability regardless of where the line crosses the river.

[Athomsfere]

Agreed on getting it across the river. The boon to the whole core would be off the chart if CBs 1st Ave, growth of 50k and the street car happened. We'd likely end up with the best downtown in the US under 2 million by far.

[strangerthings]

How much, if any, of the route will be curb running? We have had continuous issues with curb running here in KC. I would advise pushing the streetcar to the center lane as much as you can. Curb running sees many blockages from delivery vans, ubers/door dash types, etc. Transit ADvocates in KC would have gone center running if we could go back in time.

Our new extension is now pursing making the curb running streetcar lanes streetcar only but its much too late to take true advantage of dedicated lanes. Please Please Please do not make this mistake!

[Athomsfere]

How much, if any, of the route will be curb running? We have had continuous issues with curb running here in KC. I would advise pushing the streetcar to the center lane as much as you can. Curb running sees many blockages from delivery vans, ubers/door dash types, etc. Transit ADvocates in KC would have gone center running if we could go back in time.

Our new extension is now pursing making the curb running streetcar lanes streetcar only but its much too late to take true advantage of dedicated lanes. Please Please Please do not make this mistake!

Unknow right now.

At the last meeting, there were several configurations for each of the regions for the SC that were under consideration. I don't recall curb running being in the mix for the downtown and MTC areas, but maybe through Blackstone...

[Dusty]

How much, if any, of the route will be curb running? We have had continuous issues with curb running here in KC. I would advise pushing the streetcar to the center lane as much as you can. Curb running sees many blockages from delivery vans, ubers/door dash types, etc. Transit ADvocates in KC would have gone center running if we could go back in time.

Our new extension is now pursing making the curb running streetcar lanes streetcar only but its much too late to take true advantage of dedicated lanes. Please Please Please do not make this mistake!

I suggest emailing the Omaha Streetcar Authority to share your experiences with the KC streetcar. They are in the design phase now.

[halgy]

But a lot of people like the idea of a streetcar expansion along 10th/13th Street. For me, it's more about strengthening the Little Italy neighborhood with a zoo stop.

That is why I'd like an expansion to the zoo. An extension would promote additional development and density, and there is lots of good opportunity between the zoo and downtown. It could also connect more housing types to the network, so that folk don't *have* to live in an apartment/condo if they want to use transit. Though I'd prefer it to go down 10th, if it did go down 13th it would also be an excuse to redo the street itself and make it more suitable for non-car transit (13th is kinda a pet peeve of mine).

Even absent that, enabling visitors to park once (or not need a car at all) and be able to easily access many of the major spots would be a big plus. Also, since the zoo closes at 5, there's the possibility of using parking there as satellite parking for downtown; concertgoers (etc) could get off of 80 and park at the zoo, then take the streetcar rather than dealing with traffic/parking downtown.

[thenewguy]

But a lot of people like the idea of a streetcar expansion along 10th/13th Street. For me, it's more about strengthening the Little Italy neighborhood with a zoo stop.

That is why I'd like an expansion to the zoo. An extension would promote additional development and density, and there is lots of good opportunity between the zoo and downtown. It could also connect more housing types to the network, so that folk don't *have* to live in an apartment/condo if they want to use transit. Though I'd prefer it to go down 10th, if it did go down 13th it would also be an excuse to redo the street itself and make it more suitable for non-car transit (13th is kinda a pet peeve of mine).

Even absent that, enabling visitors to park once (or not need a car at all) and be able to easily access many of the major spots would be a big plus. Also, since the zoo closes at 5, there's the possibility of using parking there as satellite parking for downtown; concertgoers (etc) could get off of 80 and park at the zoo, then take the streetcar rather than dealing with traffic/parking downtown.

the zoo parking idea isn't a half bad one. It would open up a ton of parking for people, and access to the zoo from 80 in either direction is very quick.

[strangerthings]

How much, if any, of the route will be curb running? We have had continuous issues with curb running here in KC. I would advise pushing the streetcar to the center lane as much as you can. Curb running sees many blockages from delivery vans, ubers/door dash types, etc. Transit ADvocates in KC would have gone center running if we could go back in time.

Our new extension is now pursing making the curb running streetcar lanes streetcar only but its much too late to take true advantage of dedicated lanes. Please Please Please do not make this mistake!

I suggest emailing the Omaha Streetcar Authority to share your experiences with the KC streetcar. They are in the design phase now.

The ordinance passed today. 20% of the route was already designed to be dedicated lanes with physical barriers (curbs, etc) or separate ROW. This new ordinance will boost the % of dedicated route but will still be curb running - just now with flex posts and the like. This will help increase operational efficiencies and reduce delays. One of the head transit proponents said speed boosts won't be likely since its a curb running design but would have been possible if they had done center running lanes.

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/ka ... ain-street

[TransitOriented]

But a lot of people like the idea of a streetcar expansion along 10th/13th Street. For me, it's more about strengthening the Little Italy neighborhood with a zoo stop.

since the zoo closes at 5, there's the possibility of using parking there as satellite parking for downtown; concertgoers (etc) could get off of 80 and park at the zoo, then take the streetcar rather than dealing with traffic/parking downtown.

the zoo parking idea isn't a half bad one. It would open up a ton of parking for people, and access to the zoo from 80 in either direction is very quick.

So you're saying we can park and ride? We can call it Park N Ride.

[thenewguy]

But a lot of people like the idea of a streetcar expansion along 10th/13th Street. For me, it's more about strengthening the Little Italy neighborhood with a zoo stop.

since the zoo closes at 5, there's the possibility of using parking there as satellite parking for downtown; concertgoers (etc) could get off of 80 and park at the zoo, then take the streetcar rather than dealing with traffic/parking downtown.

the zoo parking idea isn't a half bad one. It would open up a ton of parking for people, and access to the zoo from 80 in either direction is very quick.

So you're saying we can park and ride? We can call it Park N Ride.

you betcha

[almighty_tuna]

Waaaaaaaait for it.....

[Athomsfere]

Waaaaaaaait for it.....

For me?

[Busguy2010]

I really like the park & ride at the zoo idea. I think more people would ride it from the zoo to visit Downtown than they would to visit the zoo from anywhere along the system. And I agree, I like it more to strengthen the Little Italy area more than any other purpose. So IMO 10th street would be the way to go.

[Dusty]

Waaaaaaaait for it.....

For me?

HA! I think they were expecting one of us to go on our park and rides are the devil speech. I don't agree to create new park and rides from repurposed/rezoned land since we have so many under-utilized lots that sit empty. This just means we become more resourceful with working with private owners of the existing lots. If the city could work a deal with the zoo to use their lots after hours as a park and ride, I think it would greatly benefit the city. It would help break that mindset that Omaha is a car city and we drive 100% of the time. it shifts our thinking to more of a multi-modal approach: Today I will drive, tomorrow I will ride the bus, and the next day I will drive part of the way, park, and ride transit for the last segment.

On the flip side, I have attempted to go to the zoo on the weekend only to find the entire parking lot full and the 13th street ramp so backed up it was pushing onto the interstate. So it works both ways. I can park in downtown on a Sunday and ride the bus/train to the zoo without my car.

A big step forward is getting a better bus route down 10th street and returning on 13th. This way one of the stops are right in front of the zoo entrance. There are two buses that currently run down 13th now. BUT...this would involve trying to cross the street with no crosswalks over many lanes of traffic. Not safe! Then if you make it that far, you can walk the entire parking lot to the entrance. Fix the bus route to make it appealing. Get people use to using it to visit Little Italy businesses and the zoo. This will increase the chances of upgrading the route to a streetcar extension.

[Garrett]

One streetcar pamphlet I saw envisioned a future line running down 10th, over on William, down 13th, then over on D street to the zoo.

[nativeomahan]

When we visited Denver last summer we stayed at a downtown hotel and took a city bus from 1 block from our hotel all the way to (within about 3 blocks of) the entrance to the Denver zoo, which I’m guessing is 3-4 miles east of the CBD. It was also free! When we finished our visit we took an Uber back to Colfax and a strip of restaurants for lunch, then we headed back downtown on another city bus. It worked great, and was so easy, given that we did not need to change busses for either trip. So, things like this can be done. But…I seriously doubt that many residents of Omaha who have motor vehicles would avail themselves of the option (were it to theoretically exist) to visit our zoo. Maybe if the zoo charged $20 per vehicle to park you might spark sufficient interest. But not when parking is absolutely free.
The same can be said for other major tourist attractions, such as Lauritzen Gardens, the Durham, Joslyn and Children’s museums and the Luminarium. Bus service to these attractions right now is either non existent or woefully inadequate. And each one currently has free parking, come one come all. A circulator “tourist” bus route might be adequately used were one to exist, offering convenient service to the 15 or so downtown area hotels. I realize it’s a much smaller city, but Key West has a circulator bus that is free to use, runs every 20 minutes, makes about 15 total stops, and covers many popular tourist stops. I’m sure that other larger cities offer similar transportation options but I’m not personally familiar with them.

[Dusty]

One streetcar pamphlet I saw envisioned a future line running down 10th, over on William, down 13th, then over on D street to the zoo.

Interesting! I don't like cutting over on William just because you cut off all the lots from Pacific to William on 13th. I would cut over on Pacific to capture the whole area.

ZOO- D street does not have a light to turn. I would enter the main entrance with the lights. Take the first right to ride along outside of parking lot to the entrance to zoo. Then down 10th back to downtown.

[Dusty]

When we visited Denver last summer we stayed at a downtown hotel and took a city bus from 1 block from our hotel all the way to (within about 3 blocks of) the entrance to the Denver zoo, which I’m guessing is 3-4 miles east of the CBD. It was also free! When we finished our visit we took an Uber back to Colfax and a strip of restaurants for lunch, then we headed back downtown on another city bus. It worked great, and was so easy, given that we did not need to change busses for either trip. So, things like this can be done. But…I seriously doubt that many residents of Omaha who have motor vehicles would avail themselves of the option (were it to theoretically exist) to visit our zoo. Maybe if the zoo charged $20 per vehicle to park you might spark sufficient interest. But not when parking is absolutely free.
The same can be said for other major tourist attractions, such as Lauritzen Gardens, the Durham, Joslyn and Children’s museums and the Luminarium. Bus service to these attractions right now is either non existent or woefully inadequate. And each one currently has free parking, come one come all. A circulator “tourist” bus route might be adequately used were one to exist, offering convenient service to the 15 or so downtown area hotels. I realize it’s a much smaller city, but Key West has a circulator bus that is free to use, runs every 20 minutes, makes about 15 total stops, and covers many popular tourist stops. I’m sure that other larger cities offer similar transportation options but I’m not personally familiar with them.

I think METRO is heading in the right direction. The excitement of the Farnam Streetcar will help push the transit network to the next level. I understand where you are coming from...free parking prevents people from trying transit. Parking is not free, as someone is paying for it. In this case, the zoo raises the admission prices to pay for your free parking. But it's not all about money. For example, my wife is terrified to drive in the winter time (snow/ice). It doesn't matter if the zoo has free parking, she won't do it because it stresses her out so much. She will gladly take transit if it took her to places she wants to go.

This is one of the many reasons I push for better transit options in town. I definitely can see this route being upgraded to a streetcar but have to get the bus route fixed first. What I see is: Starts at pedestrian bridge, Luminarium, Along 10th St, Durham Museum, Cuts over on Pacific to 13th, All the way to zoo entrance, Back down 10th street to repeat.

[almighty_tuna]

Waaaaaaaait for it.....

For me?

HA! I think they were expecting one of us to go on our park and rides are the devil speech.

Completely! lol

[Busguy2010]

Metro used to have two routes on 10th, the 10 and the 6. The 10 started at 19th & Douglas and then went down 10th to the zoo, while the 6 started in the same spot, but turned around at Bancroft and went back Downtown on 6th and Pacific. Both routes followed historic streetcar routes almost exactly. It was a fun route, really quick from end to end, might as well not even take a seat, but nobody rode it. Would it be different now if they brought the bus route back as a trial? I doubt it... But it did only run during the morning and the afternoon. Maybe Metro could try to force it by running it all day and until the end of the night, but I still really think it would be an empty bus 99% of the time.