ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Trains, Planes, and Automobiles (and Streetcars!).

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Athomsfere
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by Athomsfere »

ita wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:07 am
For sure, increasing park and rides to cater to suburbanites is definitely a focus of Scenario C. I would very much rather see funds go to increasing frequency on existing routes and increasing bus service where bus service can be efficient and effective, ie. urban Omaha.

Oahu is (still) building the light rail. I think it might open (partially) this year or next, but the route is 20 miles, Ewa Beach to Waikiki. I don't think it does squat for traffic, but at least there is a level of density (much more intense than Omaha, check out the area around one of my high schools, Moanalua High) that could justify the project. It has just been so expensive, mismanaged, and late, that it's been a black eye for rail projects. I know your a proponent for light rail in Omaha into the burbs, but from Osberg and folks from MAPA, they've looked into it and we just do not have the density in West Omaha to justify the possible cost of light rail.
I think the light rail could be good for Oahu, but Hawaii is a strange place for guessing IMO. It's the only place I have gone to in the last 10 years and wanted to rent a car (Also rented on in SF because I was there for a wedding in Half Moon Bay). I was hiking, kayaking and surfing around Hawaii, so a vehicle was needed on Oahu and the other islands to reach those nice remote places...

And yes, I'm a huge proponent of rail. What I think a lot of people miss is you don't need that density first. Take the way Japan does it: Put rail where you want density and let the infill come. It can work. More importantly, it can slow or prevent sprawl.

Do I think it's right for Omaha today? Only in the core. Ideally to me, I'd scrap the street car and replace it with grade separated light rail. Run it from Epply to Florence, to Downtown, to MTC, UNMC and Aksarben.

Run a streetcar in Lincoln.

Give it 5 - 10 years, and then start looking at expanding the LR and running a commuter line between the two cities.


Other fun places to look at: Matsuyama and Kanazawa Japan. Both are close to Omaha's size. And that's city, not MSA. Matsuyama has a lower average density, and runs trams (One line).

Kanazawa just has busses, and a lower density. Sadly, both are currently shrinking (Like most cities in Japan), but it's a good example of two cities that are relatively isolated geographically that I think places like Omaha should be trying to emulate. Specifically Matsuyama. One great thing too, is that even though the suburbs have trains to Matsuyama, most people in the region still have cars (unlike Tokyo, Osaka) and will commute via train, but drive to Matsuyama for bigger shopping items. Which to me was the perfect world as a suburbanite. I could walk / bike from a house in say Toon (I still don't like how this is romanized) to the train, and take a train to Matsuyama, and the tram to whatever destination.

And I've been in similar small cities in Europe with sort of the same story.


In short, I think we give "Omaha isn't dense enough" or "Omaha isn't big enough" far too much credit as a reason to not do it.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

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Busguy2010
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

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Heard there was a pretty bad crash about an hour ago involving an ORBT bus at 72nd & Dodge. I don't have details. New bus probably totaled.

Edit: Might have been just the stop. I will be driving by in about two hours. Guy waiting at the stop injured.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

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Busguy2010 wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 8:46 pm Heard there was a pretty bad crash about an hour ago involving an ORBT bus at 72nd & Dodge. I don't have details. New bus probably totaled.

Edit: Might have been just the stop. I will be driving by in about two hours. Guy waiting at the stop injured.
It was the bus stop.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by Busguy2010 »

I drove by a little bit ago. Westbound station look normal, was too far away to tell, but it looked like a screen on the eastbound station wasnt working, so I'd assume the eastbound station.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by Athomsfere »

Brad wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 10:59 pm
Busguy2010 wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 8:46 pm Heard there was a pretty bad crash about an hour ago involving an ORBT bus at 72nd & Dodge. I don't have details. New bus probably totaled.

Edit: Might have been just the stop. I will be driving by in about two hours. Guy waiting at the stop injured.
It was the bus stop.
So this actually makes me want to ask, and hopefully one of our resident city planners can give some thoughts too but:

Between the terrible library at 72nd plan, Vision Zero, and some of the various other goals and changes in Omaha now.

I can't help but think one of the best things we could do at 72nd and Dodge, and then down Dodge all the way to at least MTC is add continuous sidewalks, on all 4 sides of every controlled intersection. Drop the curb cuts, and raise those continuous sidewalks enough to create a minor speed bump.

I believe the lanes are already ~10 feet, so I don't think we can narrow them further. Which is disappointing because the sidewalks for much of this stretch is terribly narrow, and have infrastructure sprinkled throughout in the way of hydrants and light posts. I don't think you could consider much of the sidewalks around Dundee on Dodge ADA compliant for example.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by buildomaha »

Athomsfere wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:37 am
Brad wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 10:59 pm
Busguy2010 wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 8:46 pm Heard there was a pretty bad crash about an hour ago involving an ORBT bus at 72nd & Dodge. I don't have details. New bus probably totaled.

Edit: Might have been just the stop. I will be driving by in about two hours. Guy waiting at the stop injured.
It was the bus stop.
So this actually makes me want to ask, and hopefully one of our resident city planners can give some thoughts too but:

Between the terrible library at 72nd plan, Vision Zero, and some of the various other goals and changes in Omaha now.

I can't help but think one of the best things we could do at 72nd and Dodge, and then down Dodge all the way to at least MTC is add continuous sidewalks, on all 4 sides of every controlled intersection. Drop the curb cuts, and raise those continuous sidewalks enough to create a minor speed bump.

I believe the lanes are already ~10 feet, so I don't think we can narrow them further. Which is disappointing because the sidewalks for much of this stretch is terribly narrow, and have infrastructure sprinkled throughout in the way of hydrants and light posts. I don't think you could consider much of the sidewalks around Dundee on Dodge ADA compliant for example.
I’m all for it. If you need to get downtown from west Omaha there is already overbuilt interstate getting you there. Dodge can be for ‘local’ use and transit and it would benefit businesses and residents alike.
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Busguy2010
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by Busguy2010 »

Make the center lane a turn lane, permanently.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by Athomsfere »

Busguy2010 wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:38 pm Make the center lane a turn lane, permanently.
I'd be against this. It adds far too many conflict points and the ADTs I think are way too high. I'd rather see a greenway added , or a grade separated lane for transit.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

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Athomsfere wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 7:46 am
Busguy2010 wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:38 pm Make the center lane a turn lane, permanently.
I'd be against this. It adds far too many conflict points and the ADTs I think are way too high. I'd rather see a greenway added , or a grade separated lane for transit.
Lets be somewhat realistic about it. They're not going to take a lane away from Dodge for anything, really. Heck, there was even talk of making it 4 lanes with a turn lane. Yes, even the part east of 69th.

Reasons why they the should make the center lane a turn lane is: not many people use it because they're chicken or don't know how to use it, people want to turn left and its a bit of a b1tch to not have that ability on one of the city's busiest streets, or people don't understand that you can't turn left on Dodge but do it anyway (that's a whole other discussion itself).

I'll agree about the sidewalks. They suck. They're narrow and there's no buffer. But to widen the sidewalks, it would require giving up a lane of Dodge, and why that's not gonna happen is a) that would take a lane away from Dodge, b) that would make Dodge two lanes in each direction, which is not good because, c) that introduces the even more unsafe no-turn-lane-left-turn, and d) Omaha is prehistoric about traffic (it took them this long to even decide to make Farnam two way all day).
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by Athomsfere »

Busguy2010 wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:58 am
Athomsfere wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 7:46 am
Busguy2010 wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:38 pm Make the center lane a turn lane, permanently.
I'd be against this. It adds far too many conflict points and the ADTs I think are way too high. I'd rather see a greenway added , or a grade separated lane for transit.
Lets be somewhat realistic about it. They're not going to take a lane away from Dodge for anything, really. Heck, there was even talk of making it 4 lanes with a turn lane. Yes, even the part east of 69th.

Reasons why they the should make the center lane a turn lane is: not many people use it because they're chicken or don't know how to use it, people want to turn left and its a bit of a b1tch to not have that ability on one of the city's busiest streets, or people don't understand that you can't turn left on Dodge but do it anyway (that's a whole other discussion itself).

I'll agree about the sidewalks. They suck. They're narrow and there's no buffer. But to widen the sidewalks, it would require giving up a lane of Dodge, and why that's not gonna happen is a) that would take a lane away from Dodge, b) that would make Dodge two lanes in each direction, which is not good because, c) that introduces the even more unsafe no-turn-lane-left-turn, and d) Omaha is prehistoric about traffic (it took them this long to even decide to make Farnam two way all day).
I know it's not realistic, but those would be the best options.

4 lanes? Each direction? How? East of Memorial there isn't the space. Does Omaha want to be the next "Big Dig" disaster city?


I see that swing lane in use all the time. And I'm also of the opinion left turns should just be abolished expect in the countryside... But then again, I live down here. Whatever drunkards have so far been in charge of Dodge should be arrested. That expressway especially was a gross misappropriation of tax dollars.
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Busguy2010
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

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Athomsfere wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:12 am 4 lanes? Each direction? How? East of Memorial there isn't the space. Does Omaha want to be the next "Big Dig" disaster city?
Yep, 4 lanes in each direction. I too was perplexed, even astounded they even considered it. They would have had to tear down a LOT of buildings and houses to do it. There were (maybe still are) official city documents depicting the 4 lane option, and there was also an idea of putting in a West Dodge Expressway style interchange at Saddle Creek Road (think of 204th & West Dodge). I saw it here and I Joined in 2011, so it had to have been around that time.
Athomsfere wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:12 am I see that swing lane in use all the time. And I'm also of the opinion left turns should just be abolished expect in the countryside... But then again, I live down here. Whatever drunkards have so far been in charge of Dodge should be arrested. That expressway especially was a gross misappropriation of tax dollars.
I see it used all the time too. And I use it often as well, but I say the vast majority don't. Like, there's been more than a few times I've blown by a group of 50 plus cars backed up in the other two lanes. People just don't know they can use it, or they're scared to, which is somewhat understandable because I've been driving eastbound in the morning in the middle lane, and had someone coming the other direction in the middle lane. I never use the middle lane in the morning anymore.

And come to think of it, why switch it at all? There's not even half the traffic in the morning as there is any other time of day or day of week.

So to amend my suggestion, why not make Dodge 3 lanes westbound and two eastbound all the time? That would clear up a lot of confusion. OR take the center lane out of the equation and make it a turn lane that people can use.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

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Busguy2010 wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:36 am
And come to think of it, why switch it at all? There's not even half the traffic in the morning as there is any other time of day or day of week.

So to amend my suggestion, why not make Dodge 3 lanes westbound and two eastbound all the time? That would clear up a lot of confusion. OR take the center lane out of the equation and make it a turn lane that people can use.
Agree with some of this. Going through the 2021 ADTs it looks like East West bound are neck and neck, some intersections East bound has more traffic, and some west. I don't think you could make the argument that westbound should get the lane. I'd say if anything, eastbound should get it: Going into the good part of Omaha, you get the benefits... lol

I'd also still argue, if we are going to get rid of a lane, it's better to use it for something actually good for the city, like a greenway. Not that a lot of the suburbanites wouldn't hate the greenway, but it might do a ton to get the ADTs down enough in the core to be a great place to start.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by BRoss »

The talk about making Dodge 8 lanes is long dead. It showed taking out the south half of the street and since then there's been a lot of new developments.
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Busguy2010
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

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Athomsfere wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:46 pm Agree with some of this. Going through the 2021 ADTs it looks like East West bound are neck and neck, some intersections East bound has more traffic, and some west. I don't think you could make the argument that westbound should get the lane. I'd say if anything, eastbound should get it: Going into the good part of Omaha, you get the benefits... lol
That's all day though. I think Dodge is three lanes eastbound from 7-9am on weekdays, and that's it. So I'm saying the eastbound traffic in the mornings doesn't warrant the switch. I've had a lot more issues in westbound traffic at any time on any day, or eastbound traffic around 5 or 6 pm than I've ever had in eastbound traffic between 7 and 9am. So that's why I think they should either go away with the switch and make it 3 west and 2 east all the time, or make it a turn lane.

And making the center lane a turn lane wouldn't be getting rid of a lane, it would be repurposing. I think a lot of the reason people don't use the center lane and the other two get backed up is because a lot of people are wanting to go north or south from Dodge, but in order to do so, they have to take a right. So curb lane would get backed up if that's the case.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

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Athomsfere wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:46 pm I don't think you could make the argument that westbound should get the lane.
Sure you can. It’s quite easy - “It’s currently that way most of the time now anyways”.

There.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by Athomsfere »

NEDodger wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 4:34 pm
Athomsfere wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:46 pm I don't think you could make the argument that westbound should get the lane.
Sure you can. It’s quite easy - “It’s currently that way most of the time now anyways”.

There.
I was thinking about that last night... And if eastbound and westbound are the same ADTs (roughly) with current system and westbound getting the extra lanes most of the time, that would seem to suggest there is an unmet demand to get east...
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by stadsborgare »

I notice a mural has been added to the newest ORBT station at 8th Street.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by jjjjhskr »

I took ORBT from downtown (15th and Dodge) to the AT&T store at 78th and Dodge on Tuesday around 130pm. I would have expected it to be a slow time of day but there were 24 riders besides me that got on at various stops along the way. Seemed very good. One the way back downtown there were 13 riders.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by Louie »

Do we know if ORBT will run on the streetcar route when that's in place? Or start at the endpoints of the route/s?
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

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Louie wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:48 am Do we know if ORBT will run on the streetcar route when that's in place? Or start at the endpoints of the route/s?
They will be separate. As of now, the only section they would share could be from 8th & Douglas to 10th & Farnam, and even that part is subject to change.

There was an early plan to have both ORBT and the streetcar share transit lanes on Farnam/ Harney, but obviously with ORBT now in place on Dodge/Douglas, that won't happen. And thankfully, because the streetcar would have totally messed up ORBT'S purpose of rapid transit.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by Athomsfere »

It's been a busy week, but something that's been bothering me for a few days now: ORBT wasn't running on Thanksgiving.

How are we supposed to take our transit seriously if no one could get to or from work, or to family's get-togethers, or downtown for the lighting ceremony, because we just randomly stop running the ORBT?

I hope this was an off year, and not the norm.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

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Athomsfere wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:30 am It's been a busy week, but something that's been bothering me for a few days now: ORBT wasn't running on Thanksgiving.

How are we supposed to take our transit seriously if no one could get to or from work, or to family's get-togethers, or downtown for the lighting ceremony, because we just randomly stop running the ORBT?

I hope this was an off year, and not the norm.
Metro has never operated on major holidays : https://www.ometro.com/closings-observa ... %2C%202022
I think it's fair.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by almighty_tuna »

At some point, METRO will need to make the leap to 365 service, even if it's a reduced capacity.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

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almighty_tuna wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:25 am At some point, METRO will need to make the leap to 365 service, even if it's a reduced capacity.
This exactly. Investing in the ORBT and the streetcar, it really should be running every day. Offer the drivers some nice bonus pay, because this needs to be working on holidays too.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by Busguy2010 »

I bet if ever, it would be Sunday schedules. Some routes dont run at all on Sundays. Offer them triple time and don't force those who dont want to work. I feel bad for people who dont get holidays off.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

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Busguy2010 wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:37 pm I feel bad for people who dont get holidays off.
I do too, but I also know there are a lot of people who would much rather the x2.5 holiday pay rather than have those holidays off.

All that said, Less frequency almost certainly is fine, but the busses should be running.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

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Right, so IMO it would have to be a much reduced service, so as not to require people who don't want to work. There's some holidays I couldn't care less about working on, so I'll be the guy volunteering to work on New Year's Day, Christmas day, Memorial day, Labor day. But I NEED Christmas eve, Thanksgiving, and Independence day off. So yeah, it could work, I just want the drivers to have options.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

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Metro’s ORBT hits millionth ride, officials say ridership steadily increasing




Metro Transit and ORBT are planning special events to celebrate the bus routes’ milestone one-millionth ride. This Saturday, all fares on ORBT and all Metro routes will be waived, and special surprises will be placed on all ORBT buses throughout the day. Metro is also hosting an event at the Gene Leahy Mall from non to 3 p.m. Saturday to thank riders for utilizing the service. By nightfall, Metro officials say there will be a surprise highlight alone the ORBT corridor near the 11th street promenade. As Metro celebrates the milestone, CEO Lauren Cencic says ridership on the route has been steadily increasing since it opened in November 2020.

“What ridership growth on ORBT really shows is that high-quality transit service really makes a difference,” she says about the route. ORBT opened at the height of the pandemic, and as more and more people return to public transportation of all kinds, Cencic says ORBT is hitting other milestones, too. “Earlier this year in January, we had the highest ridership on dodge street that metro’s ever had, even before ORBT, before COVID, really seeing ridership grow throughout the ORBT corridor, it’s great.” Metro says in January of this year, the average ridership on ORBT was 8,933, and in February it jumped to 9,685.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by skinzfan23 »

Terrible screenshot but from the citycam you can see the comparison between the regular bus and ORBT:


Image
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

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Nice grab!
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

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skinzfan23 wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 6:38 pm Terrible screenshot but from the citycam you can see the comparison between the regular bus and ORBT:


Image
I can't believe they just crash head on like that
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by Garrett »

Why does ORBT, the largest bus, not simply eat the smaller one?
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by Louie »

Garrett wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:22 pm Why does ORBT, the largest bus, not simply eat the smaller one?

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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

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Garrett wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:22 pm Why does ORBT, the largest bus, not simply eat the smaller one?
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by PotatoeEatsFish »

There’s a stop a half mile away from me, I might take it to Westroads some day. Does anyone know how much is it and how to pay? I’ve never taken a bus before. Also some rich tourist asked me how to get to Westroads and I said we had a rapid transit bus and he scoffed at me. But I’m sure he’d happily take the streetcar someday, people are so stupid it’s pretty much the same thing.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by ProgKingHughesker »

PotatoeEatsFish wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 10:54 pm There’s a stop a half mile away from me, I might take it to Westroads some day. Does anyone know how much is it and how to pay? I’ve never taken a bus before. Also some rich tourist asked me how to get to Westroads and I said we had a rapid transit bus and he scoffed at me. But I’m sure he’d happily take the streetcar someday, people are so stupid it’s pretty much the same thing.
$1.25, $1.50 if you want to transfer (90 minutes on weekdays, 2 hours on weekends)
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by Louie »

ProgKingHughesker wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 11:47 pm
PotatoeEatsFish wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 10:54 pm There’s a stop a half mile away from me, I might take it to Westroads some day. Does anyone know how much is it and how to pay? I’ve never taken a bus before. Also some rich tourist asked me how to get to Westroads and I said we had a rapid transit bus and he scoffed at me. But I’m sure he’d happily take the streetcar someday, people are so stupid it’s pretty much the same thing.
$1.25, $1.50 if you want to transfer (90 minutes on weekdays, 2 hours on weekends)
You'll need to get the app, though. They don't take cash on the ORBT.
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by ita »

Louie wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2023 10:18 am
ProgKingHughesker wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 11:47 pm
PotatoeEatsFish wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 10:54 pm There’s a stop a half mile away from me, I might take it to Westroads some day. Does anyone know how much is it and how to pay? I’ve never taken a bus before. Also some rich tourist asked me how to get to Westroads and I said we had a rapid transit bus and he scoffed at me. But I’m sure he’d happily take the streetcar someday, people are so stupid it’s pretty much the same thing.
$1.25, $1.50 if you want to transfer (90 minutes on weekdays, 2 hours on weekends)
You'll need to get the app, though. They don't take cash on the ORBT.
Yes download umo. Pretty easy to use
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Re: ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

Post by halgy »

ita wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:05 am
Louie wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2023 10:18 am
ProgKingHughesker wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 11:47 pm
PotatoeEatsFish wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 10:54 pm There’s a stop a half mile away from me, I might take it to Westroads some day. Does anyone know how much is it and how to pay? I’ve never taken a bus before. Also some rich tourist asked me how to get to Westroads and I said we had a rapid transit bus and he scoffed at me. But I’m sure he’d happily take the streetcar someday, people are so stupid it’s pretty much the same thing.
$1.25, $1.50 if you want to transfer (90 minutes on weekdays, 2 hours on weekends)
You'll need to get the app, though. They don't take cash on the ORBT.
Yes download umo. Pretty easy to use
There are also ticket machines at most of the stations for one-off trips. I haven't used one (I use the app), but I assume they take cards/cash. And you can also get a reusable touch card if you want to ride regularly without a phone.

My car has been in the shop, so I've been using the ORBT a bunch the past couple weeks and have no real complains. Everything was clean and running on time (more or less). I live downtown near a station, so it is a pretty easy way to get over to Blackstone (though walking along Dodge west of midtown isn't great).

FWIW, I also used a few of the normal buses in that time. My only complaints are that they stop running busses too early and reduce the frequency too much towards the end of the day (no new complaints there). The 15-20 minute frequency during the day was fine, but the 1/hour frequency after 7/8 meant getting back from evening activities much less convenient. At least the weather was nice, and the UMO app made tracking everything easy enough.