Omaha Electric Car Discussion

[Athomsfere]

I've also heard that Tesla's battery replacement is about 1/2 the cost of the car new, maybe even more. How often should those require replacement???

Never, you don't replace them.

Never, as in you should just buy a new car?

Never as in the battery should never need to be replaced. They hold a charge and last for hundreds of thousands of miles.

https://electrek.co/2023/04/25/tesla-up ... gradation/
https://electrek.co/2023/08/29/tesla-ba ... ing-study/
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-battery ... illion-km/

If you're a person that drives a car north of 300k miles, then it might be something you should consider.

Most of that is based on mileage used, not the time passing. I'm curious how much the battery degrades with just time. Ideally, someone could buy an EV and have it for a much longer time if they don't drive it often. Case in point, I drive about 6-8k a year at max. So I should theoretically be able to ride an EV out for decades. In my perfect world my next car will be my last, spending money on cars is such a bad investment, so I'm trying to weigh options.

Fast charging is also a big deal. If you can "trickle charge" the batteries should last much longer than if you generally fast charge.

[Athomsfere]

Yeah, I think this is largely a Jeep problem, not a hybrid problem. Anecdotally, mother had a couple of different Jeeps (pure ICE, no hybrid), and both were in the shop several times. For one of them, the computer went bad so it wouldn't start, and the dealership's response was basically "yep, sometimes Jeeps be like that". She ended up trading both of them off...for new Jeeps. I don't understand why they're so popular.

Not to veer too far off topic, but I love my 2014 Jeep. The only thing we've had to take it to the shop for is clutch replacement. That said, I don't have many options on it - it's a manual transmission, manual windows, manual locks, no rear wiper, no factory touchscreen radio, manual "freedom tops" instead of electric rollback roof, etc. Plus, we're pretty handy and do basic maintenance like brakes/rotor replacement, shock replacement and deeper projects like front axles, linkage, timing belts, etc on our cars, so that does help.

Jeeps are some of the least reliable things on the road, but Jeep owners are also some of the most loyal. Like "Yeah, it has problems. But gosh dangit they are MY problems and I love it".

Rotary cars like the RX7 and RX8 have a similar weird love. "Yeah, I need to do all these crazy things so the seals will last more than 30k miles and I need to do another a rebuild."

[TransitOriented]

I should theoretically be able to ride an EV out for decades. In my perfect world my next car will be my last, spending money on cars is such a bad investment, so I'm trying to weigh options.

Everybody has different wants, needs and expectations. If you're expectation is to be driving a 2025 electric car in the year 2050, I would 100% not recommend buying an electric car now. The "standards" have been changing a lot.

[legato9]

Yeah, I think this is largely a Jeep problem, not a hybrid problem. Anecdotally, mother had a couple of different Jeeps (pure ICE, no hybrid), and both were in the shop several times. For one of them, the computer went bad so it wouldn't start, and the dealership's response was basically "yep, sometimes Jeeps be like that". She ended up trading both of them off...for new Jeeps. I don't understand why they're so popular.

Not to veer too far off topic, but I love my 2014 Jeep. The only thing we've had to take it to the shop for is clutch replacement. That said, I don't have many options on it - it's a manual transmission, manual windows, manual locks, no rear wiper, no factory touchscreen radio, manual "freedom tops" instead of electric rollback roof, etc. Plus, we're pretty handy and do basic maintenance like brakes/rotor replacement, shock replacement and deeper projects like front axles, linkage, timing belts, etc on our cars, so that does help.

Jeeps are some of the least reliable things on the road, but Jeep owners are also some of the most loyal. Like "Yeah, it has problems. But gosh dangit they are MY problems and I love it".

Rotary cars like the RX7 and RX8 have a similar weird love. "Yeah, I need to do all these crazy things so the seals will last more than 30k miles and I need to do another a rebuild."

I always heard that about Jeeps, but I wanted one anyway. I was worried, so I bought an insane extended bumper-to-bumper warranty.

I’ve driven the h3ll out of my Jeep, and it has been possibly the single most reliable vehicle I’ve ever had. It’s been nothing but regular oil changes. I mean literally not one single issue.

The freaking tires have even lasted forever. It’s weird.

[djc311]

Yeah, I think this is largely a Jeep problem, not a hybrid problem. Anecdotally, mother had a couple of different Jeeps (pure ICE, no hybrid), and both were in the shop several times. For one of them, the computer went bad so it wouldn't start, and the dealership's response was basically "yep, sometimes Jeeps be like that". She ended up trading both of them off...for new Jeeps. I don't understand why they're so popular.

Not to veer too far off topic, but I love my 2014 Jeep. The only thing we've had to take it to the shop for is clutch replacement. That said, I don't have many options on it - it's a manual transmission, manual windows, manual locks, no rear wiper, no factory touchscreen radio, manual "freedom tops" instead of electric rollback roof, etc. Plus, we're pretty handy and do basic maintenance like brakes/rotor replacement, shock replacement and deeper projects like front axles, linkage, timing belts, etc on our cars, so that does help.

Jeeps are some of the least reliable things on the road, but Jeep owners are also some of the most loyal. Like "Yeah, it has problems. But gosh dangit they are MY problems and I love it".

Rotary cars like the RX7 and RX8 have a similar weird love. "Yeah, I need to do all these crazy things so the seals will last more than 30k miles and I need to do another a rebuild."

I always heard that about Jeeps, but I wanted one anyway. I was worried, so I bought an insane extended bumper-to-bumper warranty.

I’ve driven the h3ll out of my Jeep, and it has been possibly the single most reliable vehicle I’ve ever had. It’s been nothing but regular oil changes. I mean literally not one single issue.

The freaking tires have even lasted forever. It’s weird.

Sir, you may want to consider purchasing a lottery ticket.

[Trips1]

My background: 3 EVs owned, 120k+ miles driven, 3 trips over 3k miles.
Reservations for the Tesla Cybertruck, Ford Lighting and Chevy Silverado EV.

Debunking
The Grid: EVs can be great for the grid. A Ford Lighting can power a house for days and act as a peaker plant. 7 cars use as much electricity as 1 house and they can be charged off peak. You can drive 3 miles for energy it takes to make toast.
Anti-Tesla: Tesla makes the top 4 American cars (Gas and Battery).
Hydrogen: I don't see how extracting, transporting and needs filling stations is more efficient than electricity.
EVs are Heavier: A Jeep Wrangler weighs between 4,012 and 5,265 pounds. 92% of Tesla's sold weigh between 3,862 and 4,250 pounds. Their heaviest Model X Plaid weighs 5,390 pounds (.2% of their sales)
Chevy Bolt: A OK car but designed city travel and 50% of it is made from LG.
EVs are expensive: Today you can buy a New Tesla Model 3 for $36,020 less $7,500 potential tax credit ($28,520). Car and Driver say the average new car price in July was $48,334.
Level 3 Charging: Not all Level 3 chargers are made the same. Most non-Tesla chargers are unreliable or slow with a speed of 50kW. Tesla is reliable and 5x faster with a max speed of 250kW. This is a real concern and why most manufacturers will be using Tesla next year.
Tesla Service: In the Midwest we have great service. 90% of jobs can be done in your driveway or at your work. Tesla replaced a side window at my work before I could get outside to meet them. If you need to bring it in, they will give you a loaner in Omaha. If outside they will drop off a loaner and flatbed your car to a service center. Nebraska needs to change this law.
Battery Replacement Costs: A battery should last 400,000+ miles. You will see a 10% drop after the first couple years, but a gas vehicle has the same. Most of the time you do not need to replace the whole battery ($12,000) and can have the bad cells/modules replaced ($2,500 - $4,000).

I will add that current EVs are not good for towing more than 150 miles. A non-Tesla is not a good option if you do trips over 250 miles on a regular basis.

[Athomsfere]

My background: 3 EVs owned, 120k+ miles driven, 3 trips over 3k miles.
Reservations for the Tesla Cybertruck, Ford Lighting and Chevy Silverado EV.

Debunking

EVs are Heavier: A Jeep Wrangler weighs between 4,012 and 5,265 pounds. 92% of Tesla's sold weigh between 3,862 and 4,250 pounds. Their heaviest Model X Plaid weighs 5,390 pounds (.2% of their sales)

Like for like, EVs are heavier. The batteries add the weight. The V8 from a corvette is a little under 500 pounds. Most EV batteries start around 1000 and go up. The Hummer EV is like 3000.

Also, that 5265 pounds appears to be the EV version of the Wrangler.

These appear to be all the ICE models and at least closer to the correct weights:
https://www.napsales.com/how-much-does- ... 0%20pounds

2021 Jeep Wrangler Sport – 3,970 pounds
2021 Jeep Wrangler Willys Sport – 3,970 pounds
2021 Jeep Wrangler Sport S – 3,970 pounds
2021 Jeep Wrangler Islander – 3,970 pounds
2021 Jeep Wrangler Willys – 3,970 pounds
2021 Jeep Wrangler Freedom – 3,970 pounds
2021 Jeep Wrangler 80th Anniversary – 3,955 pounds
2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Altitude – 4,167 pounds
2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara – 4,263 pounds
2021 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon – 4,160 pounds
2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara Altitude – 4,263 pounds
2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited High Altitude – 4,263 pounds

So I'd say the Plaid weighs more than all the Wrangler on ICE

[Trips1]

Overall the weights are about the same. 95%+ of Tesla's sold weight between 3,662 and 4,416 pounds. The same can be said for Wranglers that weigh 3,948 to 4,406 pounds (Ice Only). The Rubicon 392 weighs 5,098 pounds but they are not selling many of those.

The Hummer EV is a poor excuse for an EV. If that was the only EV available I would recommend buying a gas vehicle. Almost everything that is great about EV's, it does the opposite.

[Athomsfere]

Overall the weights are about the same. 95%+ of Tesla's sold weight between 3,662 and 4,416 pounds. The same can be said for Wranglers that weigh 3,948 to 4,406 pounds (Ice Only). The Rubicon 392 weighs 5,098 pounds but they are not selling many of those.

The Hummer EV is a poor excuse for an EV. If that was the only EV available I would recommend buying a gas vehicle. Almost everything that is great about EV's, it does the opposite.

Again, like for like. It's more like a +20%.

I really hope we do something to keep EVs from taking over the ways cars did.

[GreenOZ]

I bought a Bolt EUV last January and love it. I wish I could have waited another year or two in order to get better battery tech, but that decision was made for me by the Jeep that rear-ended my old Fusion and totaled it.

Since I can charge at work, it costs me nothing to drive day-to-day unless I'm driving further than Lincoln (which I very rarely do). Even if I did charge at home, it would be about $7 a week. If I drove to KC or further on a regular basis, the Bolt wouldn't be ideal. But for 99% of my current needs, it is great.

I agree that mass and active transit are much better, but due to where I work I'm stuck car commuting for the foreseeable future. Still, EVs can be powered by clean power, even if the grid isn't there yet (though wind is more economical than fossil fuels, so it is only a matter of time). Even barring that, having one big power plant is more efficient and cleaner than thousands of ICEs, and moving the pollution generation from inside the cities to a centralized power plant helps with urban air quality.

EVs definitely aren't a silver bullet, but they're part of a solution. We can only see how it pans out. Until then, I like driving my little electric car. All else aside, having lots of instant torque and acceleration makes it a lot of fun.

I used to admire electric cars and even bought a Chevy Bolt. I had problems with it and was stranded in winter because range varies depending on outside temp. I even needed help from a truck with a diesel generator attached for power rescue.

I used to believe the BS on clean energy and its good for the environment until I realized electric is only a tactic to buy more and have pollution released elsewhere.

[Busguy2010]

I used to believe the BS on clean energy and its good for the environment until I realized electric is only a tactic to buy more and have pollution released elsewhere.

I'm pretty much in that boat. Most people just think directly in such that "I'm not burning gas", personally. I never owned an EV and probably never will, if I can help it. In a perfect world, we would be able to charge these cars with renewable energy at the owner level, but we'll probably never be able to reach net zero, because we can't just materialize natural resources out of thin air. It would take every single property on earth to have a wind turbine and solar panels covering the roof to "make a difference", but to your point, even the act of producing those renewable energy resources take their own energy and natural resources. We're in a bind, really. So I just say do what makes your life easier and more enjoyable. As the late great George Carlin said "The planet is fine! The people are f***ed."

[Linkin5]

Just gonna leave this here, not interested in debating.

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/elect ... icle-myths

[Athomsfere]

Just gonna leave this here, not interested in debating.

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/elect ... icle-myths

I don't think anyone here was saying those things?

Regardless: EVs are a net gain for "green". Just not nearly enough to make them preferable over bikes and transit as much as possible. That's my angle.

Also, 100% an opinion: But I hate Tesla's. Not for any reason people would expect, but from a usage stand point. It is just the worst UX ever with a Fischer Price car interior, dolled up with a little Apple minimalism, and screen glued to the dash. And don't get me started on the door handles...

[Renovator2559]

I used to believe the BS on clean energy and its good for the environment until I realized electric is only a tactic to buy more and have pollution released elsewhere.

I'm pretty much in that boat. Most people just think directly in such that "I'm not burning gas", personally. I never owned an EV and probably never will, if I can help it. In a perfect world, we would be able to charge these cars with renewable energy at the owner level, but we'll probably never be able to reach net zero, because we can't just materialize natural resources out of thin air. It would take every single property on earth to have a wind turbine and solar panels covering the roof to "make a difference", but to your point, even the act of producing those renewable energy resources take their own energy and natural resources. We're in a bind, really. So I just say do what makes your life easier and more enjoyable. As the late great George Carlin said "The planet is fine! The people are f***ed."

Don't mind all those scientists that are censored and their funding shutdown because they do not believe the "consensus". Clean air, water and the environment are often ignored in favor of curbing "carbon emissions".

Just gonna leave this here, not interested in debating.

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/elect ... icle-myths

With all the lobbists, special interests and the "revolving doors", the EPA is compromised, who in their right mind takes serious what they say. The EPA like the FDA need to be cleaned up, from their revolving door of freshly minted coroprate executives



Kaplan has performed thorough investigation on the EPA and they have determined that there is a lot of industry influence.

https://ethics.harvard.edu/sheila-kapla ... uption-epa

Even the hill wrote an article how the glaring problems with dirty electric vehicles are being ignored.

https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-envi ... -vehicles/

EPA hides the risks of pesticides in order to protect corporate interests.

https://usrtk.org/pesticides/epa-expose ... interests/

https://usrtk.org/pesticides/epa-expose ... interests/

In order for the trust of the EPA to be restored in the publics view. There has to be a reform to sever the ties of industry lobbying and influencing the policies that are supposed to protect the environment.

[Linkin5]

Just gonna leave this here, not interested in debating.

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/elect ... icle-myths

I don't think anyone here was saying those things

There was someone that literally posted “I used to believe the BS on clean energy and its good for the environment until I realized electric is only a tactic to buy more and have pollution released elsewhere.”

[TitosBuritoBarn]

I used to admire electric cars and even bought a Chevy Bolt. I had problems with it and was stranded in winter because range varies depending on outside temp. I even needed help from a truck with a diesel generator attached for power rescue.

I used to believe the BS on clean energy and its good for the environment until I realized electric is only a tactic to buy more and have pollution released elsewhere.

Rome wasn't built in a day. The idea is that all things should eventually shift to clean energy, not that we just switch our cars over to electricity made by coal and batteries from environmentally intensive mining and that will save the planet. As solar and wind energy becomes cheaper, they should become the primary source of energy. It's quite lazy of whoever made that meme to suggest that no one should switch to electric cars because the current dump trucks that haul the battery material run on a lot of fuel, as if electric dump trucks are just an impossibility that science cannot figure out. Even if we don't switch mining dump trucks to electricity, how many of them can there possibly be? Ford sells over half a million F-series pickups every year. I cannot imagine that remotely close to half a million of these dump trucks have ever been built.

Furthermore... "the only way a truck hauling 500,000 pounds of earth would contain enough minerals for just a single car battery is if the ore’s lithium content was 0.1%. The ores from the hard-rock mine Tesla uses contain about 2.1% lithium, according to the mine."

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ing-and-t/

[Doctor Fate]

Quantum computing will allow for massive leaps forward in battery efficiency, power, and life.

[Renovator2559]

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ing-and-t/

I found this discussion on how Politifact is funded and owned by the Poynter Institute. Which owns centralized fact check networks. Even the CIA and major corporations fund them. Its just something to take note of.

https://www.quora.com/Who-owns-PolitiFa ... e=question

As for solutions to cleaner air and low pollution, gas or electric cars at the current time are not the answer, as both create pollution in different forms. Sure cars have their purpose but we shouldn't be relying on them as a crutch, since they both generate sprawl and cause encroachment/destruction of natural habitats in excess.

Quantum computing will allow for massive leaps forward in battery efficiency, power, and life.

This will be exciting however these technologies will unleash their full potential if applied in elaborate public transportation networks and if power technologies like nuclear, hydro and even fission are incorporated, (as the current "green energy" is expensive and not mature consistent enough), electric cars then can supplant petrol cars but only if most of the shortcomings are addressed.

[Busguy2010]

I clearly don't have much skin in the conversation, but I did find it pretty impressive that we can have things like garbage trucks and buses be fully electric. I never did a lot of research on them, but I know mack makes an electric version of FCC's trucks and they use them in NYC, I believe. Now that's a good vehicle and a very practical application of electric, as the frequent stopping would activate the braking-charging system (I don't even know what that's called) but maybe it's like dynamic braking on a train?

[TransitOriented]

I used to admire electric cars and even bought a Chevy Bolt. I had problems with it and was stranded in winter because range varies depending on outside temp. I even needed help from a truck with a diesel generator attached for power rescue.

I used to believe the BS on clean energy and its good for the environment until I realized electric is only a tactic to buy more and have pollution released elsewhere.

I'm so glad that gasoline freely flows up from underground in peaceful countries.

[GreenOZ]

I'm so glad that gasoline freely flows up from underground in peaceful countries.

Its kind off scary how we have become dependent on some countries that are not known to be friendly for oil, while the US reduces its oil production.

Electric cars are not a proper solution either.

The previous president understood the situation well and that's why we were energy independent, good times!

[Garrett]

I'm so glad that gasoline freely flows up from underground in peaceful countries.

Its kind off scary how we have become dependent on some countries that are not known to be friendly for oil, while the US reduces its oil production.

Electric cars are not a proper solution either.

The previous president understood the situation well and that's why we were energy independent, good times!

And we still are. :-)

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/america- ... 20814.html

[ricko]

I'm so glad that gasoline freely flows up from underground in peaceful countries.

Its kind off scary how we have become dependent on some countries that are not known to be friendly for oil, while the US reduces its oil production.

Electric cars are not a proper solution either.

The previous president understood the situation well and that's why we were energy independent, good times!

Um, the US is now a net exporter of oil. I’d venture to guess that the reason for our reduction of oil production, if what you say is true, may have something to do with the popularity of EV’s and hybrids. Just connecting the dots.

[Stan]

I'm so glad that gasoline freely flows up from underground in peaceful countries.

Its kind off scary how we have become dependent on some countries that are not known to be friendly for oil, while the US reduces its oil production.

Electric cars are not a proper solution either.

The previous president understood the situation well and that's why we were energy independent, good times!

And we still are. :-)

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/america- ... 20814.html

Since it started trending downward in 07, does that mean - "Good Job, Bush!"? Is that the previous president the other poster was talking about?

[Renovator2559]

I'm so glad that gasoline freely flows up from underground in peaceful countries.

Its kind off scary how we have become dependent on some countries that are not known to be friendly for oil, while the US reduces its oil production.

Electric cars are not a proper solution either.

The previous president understood the situation well and that's why we were energy independent, good times!

And we still are. :-)

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/america- ... 20814.html

This is the same detached from reality yahoo writer that claimed that inflation was "transitory" while attempting to downplay inflation; just another tactic to cover for the "wonderful" things done by this administration and a pattern of glossing over and downplaying real problems.

https://dailycaller.com/2023/07/17/deca ... n-experts/

https://oversight.house.gov/release/com ... nce%201984.


Selling off the emergency oil reserves and depleting to a 40 year low and depleting so as to give the illusion of surplus energy production does not indicate that we are in an energy surplus.

Um, the US is now a net exporter of oil. I’d venture to guess that the reason for our reduction of oil production, if what you say is true, may have something to do with the popularity of EV’s and hybrids. Just connecting the dots.

Pure EVs are showing to be unreliable, and not selling well, however what is selling well are hybrids and hybrids are proving to be as reliable as gasoline only cars.
https://money.com/why-americans-not-buy ... tric-cars/


While its a shame how we subsidize and "hide" the costs of car centric infrastructure, the subsidization of EVs on top of the subsidized car centric infrastructure; is unsustainable.



"A new report by Texas Public Policy Foundation, has exposed electric vehicles as wasteful money pits, living up to the adage: If it seems too good to be true, it is.

EV proponents often claim they’re cheaper to own than conventional gas- or diesel-powered vehicles, but that’s simply not true after accounting for the billions of dollars in costs government subsidies and mandates quietly conceal.

Tesla Cybertruck gets less than 80% of advertised range in YouTuber’s test
The stark reality is the average EV costs at least $53,000 more over 10 years than conventional vehicles, effectively doubling the price of the average new car.

But $22 billion in government handouts to EV owners and manufacturers absorb the extra expense at every stage of the vehicle’s life, from raw-material sourcing to battery charging.

Examining the numbers behind recharging makes this very clear.

While EV advocates claim charging costs are equivalent to $1.21-per-gallon gasoline, the real amount is an order of magnitude more.

Including the charging equipment, subsidies from governments and utilities and other frequently excluded expenses, the true cost of charging an EV is equivalent to $17.33-per-gallon gasoline — but the EV owner pays less than 7% of that"

https://nypost.com/2023/11/07/opinion/t ... -billions/

[Stargazer]

Hello? 3/4 TRILLION in subsidies to a long established US oil industry

https://www.reuters.com/business/enviro ... 023-11-23/

Which also hit a new record in production this past year, despite your best efforts to suggest the current administration has somehow undermined it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/20 ... w-records/

.. and record profits to boot with bonus dividends passed on to shareholders.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... alenergies

Get out of here with your paltry $22 billion EV subsidies whining .. which oh by the way, actually benefits me, the individual taxpayer for a change.. instead of big oil.

Your post, apparently literally cut/paste from the Council Bluffs Tesla thread (and who knows from where else) and dumped here yet again.. is bunk. Perhaps the admins could address these spam posts.

[Busguy2010]

So, what's the best EV I can buy tomorrow?

[Renovator2559]

Get out of here with your paltry $22 billion EV subsidies whining .. which oh by the way, actually benefits me, the individual taxpayer for a change.. instead of big oil.

Your post, apparently literally cut/paste from the Council Bluffs Tesla thread (and who knows from where else) and dumped here yet again.. is bunk. Perhaps the admins could address these spam posts.

Have we not learned how to carry out a proper conversation, instead of calling for acts of censorship or shutting down the other person making another point which does not agree with you?

That 3/4 trillion you quote is not what the US subsidizes, in 2022 it was $760 billion. While I did mention that the car industry is also subsidized, the EV takes it a step further with spreading the costs across every part of the EV car's cycle including pushing the costs to utility companies, which then affects tax payers.

The subsidization of EVs like the oil companies, both end up benefiting corporations and hurting the American public in the long term.
None of this corporate welfare is good, regardless if its EV or oil companies.

The subsidization of big auto and big oil, is what has lead us to create sprawling cities, filled with strip mall and parking lot galore. In Europe, they have averted turning into a sea of strip malls because they have been more transparent with the real cost of car ownership by presenting the consumer with the actual cost.

So far as of now, hybrids appear to be the more promising direction. Toyota a company, known for creating cars that last and actually work; has been making reliable hybrids for decades now and they have scrapped plans on going electric, because they don't see the value in going electric for perceived benefits.

[Louie]

3/4 of a trillion is ~$760 billion, what are you on about man

[Stan]

So, what's the best EV I can buy tomorrow?

If money isn't the problem, I'd buy a Rivian. In my pay scale, I'd go for a Hyundai 5 or 6. I feel like the Ford Mach-E and Lightning could also be solid options in between those two ranges.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

We subsidize electric cars to encourage people to buy them. If more people buy them, it offsets the cost of R&D, which is more expensive than than using existing technology, and having greater mass production typically lowers the price of replacement parts. Eventually the subsidies are not necessary as the tech and electric car becomes more mainstream. The benefits of having wide use of electric cars is obviously for cleaner, healthier air.

We subsidize the oil industry because we have an addiction to oil and can't let them raise their prices for fear that it cripples our economy.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

So, what's the best EV I can buy tomorrow?

If money isn't the problem, I'd buy a Rivian. In my pay scale, I'd go for a Hyundai 5 or 6. I feel like the Ford Mach-E and Lightning could also be solid options in between those two ranges.

If money were no object for me, I'd go Lucid Air or one of the Audi etrons. For my payscale I'd agree with the Mach-E, Hyundai Ioniq 5 or 6, and throw in the VW ID3 and upcoming Fiat 500 (the latter one because we already have an ICE 500, which we enjoy, and mostly use it for city driving).

[NEDodger]

3/4 of a trillion is ~$760 billion, what are you on about man

Clearly you haven’t seen Robert Young do math.

[Doctor Fate]

3/4 of a trillion is ~$760 billion, what are you on about man

Clearly you haven’t seen Robert Young do math.

lol "Dr" Robert Young was court ordered to pay not 1/10 of a billion, but ~$100 million after his client's cancer was not cured but progressed to Stage 4.

[Trips1]

So, what's the best EV I can buy tomorrow?

If money isn't the problem, I'd buy a Rivian. In my pay scale, I'd go for a Hyundai 5 or 6. I feel like the Ford Mach-E and Lightning could also be solid options in between those two ranges.

If money were no object for me, I'd go Lucid Air or one of the Audi etrons. For my payscale I'd agree with the Mach-E, Hyundai Ioniq 5 or 6, and throw in the VW ID3 and upcoming Fiat 500 (the latter one because we already have an ICE 500, which we enjoy, and mostly use it for city driving).

My recommendations as of today:
Tesla Model Y for small families
Tesla Model 3 Performance for individuals
Rivian R1T for a luxury truck
Rivian RIS for a large family
Vinfast VF8 for leasing outside Nebraska ($0 down, $250/month for 36 months)

*I would recommend the Ford Mach-E when they can access the Tesla Supercharger Network (should be in the next 6 months)
**I would stay away from Lucid and Fisker as I do not see them surviving.

[Renovator2559]

3/4 of a trillion is ~$760 billion, what are you on about man

Ok, you got me there; I overlooked the use of a fraction.
Why not just use the number ~$760 B?, instead of having an excuse of throwing the trillion number

We subsidize electric cars to encourage people to buy them. If more people buy them, it offsets the cost of R&D, which is more expensive than than using existing technology, and having greater mass production typically lowers the price of replacement parts. Eventually the subsidies are not necessary as the tech and electric car becomes more mainstream. The benefits of having wide use of electric cars is obviously for cleaner, healthier air.

We subsidize the oil industry because we have an addiction to oil and can't let them raise their prices for fear that it cripples our economy.

Where are a majority of the lithium and rare minerals to produce batteries mined from? China. I bet most of those lithium manufacturing plants and are not using "clean" energy in China. Maybe people like the illusion of clean energy because the pollution occurs in a different side of the planet.
Also, electric cars are dependent on a fossil fuel powered electric grid, with inconsistent, unreliable solar and wind energy (many grave yards of wind turbine blades of unrecyclable material exist). Also China loves our dependence in their lithium battery production and China made wind turbines, meanwhile they keep opening coal power plants left and right and further stretch their commitments to clean energy.

Transferring pollution to a different side of the planet, is not a solution to a clean environmen. Benefitting China as they use cheap polluting fossil fuels while the west is bankrupting itself is not a solution either.

Ford is cutting production of the Ford F150 lightning, because the demand is not there and in fact Ford is ramping up production in its gas powered vehicles.
https://electrek.co/2024/01/19/ford-cut ... and-fades/

Currently the most viable solution at the moment are hybrid cars and the largest car manufacturer Toyota agrees. So is hydrogen fuel cell, until the technology matures.

If money were no object for me, I'd go Lucid Air or one of the Audi etrons. For my payscale I'd agree with the Mach-E, Hyundai Ioniq 5 or 6, and throw in the VW ID3 and upcoming Fiat 500 (the latter one because we already have an ICE 500, which we enjoy, and mostly use it for city driving).

The majority do not want disposable cars like these, that will break down often and or warrant repeated maintenance repairs. Some people value their time more, that they do not want to be in the dealer's repair shop often and serve as yet another stream of revenue for the manufacturer, perpetuating the cycle of planned obsolescence.

[CBJason]

Rivian RIS for a large family

The SUV is a beautiful vehicle...I wish I had money for one!

[TitosBuritoBarn]

We subsidize electric cars to encourage people to buy them. If more people buy them, it offsets the cost of R&D, which is more expensive than than using existing technology, and having greater mass production typically lowers the price of replacement parts. Eventually the subsidies are not necessary as the tech and electric car becomes more mainstream. The benefits of having wide use of electric cars is obviously for cleaner, healthier air.

We subsidize the oil industry because we have an addiction to oil and can't let them raise their prices for fear that it cripples our economy.

Where are a majority of the lithium and rare minerals to produce batteries mined from? China. I bet most of those lithium manufacturing plants and are not using "clean" energy in China. Maybe people like the illusion of clean energy because the pollution occurs in a different side of the planet.
Also, electric cars are dependent on a fossil fuel powered electric grid, with inconsistent, unreliable solar and wind energy (many grave yards of wind turbine blades of unrecyclable material exist). Also China loves our dependence in their lithium battery production and China made wind turbines, meanwhile they keep opening coal power plants left and right and further stretch their commitments to clean energy.

Transferring pollution to a different side of the planet, is not a solution to a clean environmen. Benefitting China as they use cheap polluting fossil fuels while the west is bankrupting itself is not a solution either.

Ford is cutting production of the Ford F150 lightning, because the demand is not there and in fact Ford is ramping up production in its gas powered vehicles.
https://electrek.co/2024/01/19/ford-cut ... and-fades/

Currently the most viable solution at the moment are hybrid cars and the largest car manufacturer Toyota agrees. So is hydrogen fuel cell, until the technology matures.

I agree the more immediate solution is hybrid vehicles. We should ramping those up while working out the bugs on electric cars. And I'm sure it is quite environmentally unfriendly to mine for lithium ion. And that China is going to do what China is going to do with air pollution. And I'm sure the wind turbine blades will be hard to repurpose. I get that. But there are trade-offs are there not? Is not mining for lithium ion (China is not the only nation with such deposits) and continuing with fossil fuel dependence better overall when transportation is the leading cause of greenhouse gases? And what's unreliable about green energy? Every place gets sun, every place gets wind. It's not odd to you for someone to claim that all green energy is "unreliable" while non-clean energy is not? Is that based on Texas's failures with wind turbines? They didn't think to winterize them so of course they failed when a bad winter storm hit. It's them being cheap and the fossil fuel companies, of which there are many in Texas, trying to blame green energy in general for that failure. Otherwise I'm not sure where you're under the impression they are unreliable and who's becoming bankrupt over it?

Also, cutting production on one electric car is not an indicator of the electric automobile industry. The base Lightning costs $20k more than the base gas powered F-150. There's nothing really of note differentiating the Lightning from the gas-powered F-150 that will create enough demand to pay $20,000 more for a similar product. It's overpriced. Elon Musk realized that to get people into electric cars, they have to be more appealing from a design or cultural standpoint than a gas powered car. Electric cars are not cheap given the state of the technology and ability to acquire materials, so to get people to buy them, they need to be that much more desirable. That's where their success lies. Rivian and Lucid have followed this philosophy. Ford did not when it made the Lightning.

If money were no object for me, I'd go Lucid Air or one of the Audi etrons. For my payscale I'd agree with the Mach-E, Hyundai Ioniq 5 or 6, and throw in the VW ID3 and upcoming Fiat 500 (the latter one because we already have an ICE 500, which we enjoy, and mostly use it for city driving).

The majority do not want disposable cars like these, that will break down often and or warrant repeated maintenance repairs. Some people value their time more, that they do not want to be in the dealer's repair shop often and serve as yet another stream of revenue for the manufacturer, perpetuating the cycle of planned obsolescence.

I listed nine cars built by five different international automakers with price points ranging from mid-low to six figures. What you said sounds like a canned response that a Toyota dealer would say to get you to buy a Rav4. It's also false.

[halgy]

So, what's the best EV I can buy tomorrow?

If money isn't the problem, I'd buy a Rivian. In my pay scale, I'd go for a Hyundai 5 or 6. I feel like the Ford Mach-E and Lightning could also be solid options in between those two ranges.

If money were no object for me, I'd go Lucid Air or one of the Audi etrons. For my payscale I'd agree with the Mach-E, Hyundai Ioniq 5 or 6, and throw in the VW ID3 and upcoming Fiat 500 (the latter one because we already have an ICE 500, which we enjoy, and mostly use it for city driving).

My recommendations as of today:
Tesla Model Y for small families
Tesla Model 3 Performance for individuals
Rivian R1T for a luxury truck
Rivian RIS for a large family
Vinfast VF8 for leasing outside Nebraska ($0 down, $250/month for 36 months)

*I would recommend the Ford Mach-E when they can access the Tesla Supercharger Network (should be in the next 6 months)
**I would stay away from Lucid and Fisker as I do not see them surviving.

I bought a Chevy Bolt EUV a year ago, which is definitely not the best EV but was (relatively) cheap. It meets my needs, but also made it clear to me that EVs aren't for everyone just yet. Specifically, if you frequently drive further than Lincoln, you either want 280+ mile range, access to the Tesla chargers, or both. I shied away from Tesla because I dislike Musk and because a lot of Tesla owners are insufferable, but IMO they are the best cars for people who want the most convenient experience. Maybe that will change once Tesla opens up their chargers, but I have a bad feeling that it is going to be a fiasco.

[Trips1]

So I did my taxes and my 2023 vehicle costs on my Tesla were not surprising.

Miles Driven: 18,347
Charging Costs: $674
Maintenance: $22 (Washer Fluid)
Cost Per mile: $.037

If I would have had a Toyota Camry (29MPG) I would have needed 633 gallons of gas at ~$3.25 = $2,057

Rough savings: $1,383.25

If you think a towing Cybertruck gets bad mileage, check out the Ford F150 EcoBoost. It gets 24MPG on the Highway. When Towing 7,000 lbs it gets around 7.2 MPG or 30% of the rated range.