Omaha Alternatives Analysis

[BRoss]

http://omahaalternativesanalysis.com/

Open House Meeting
Wednesday May 30th
Thompson Alumni Center
6705 Dodge Street
5-7 pm

The Central Omaha Transit Alternatives Analysis is a partnership with Metro and the City of Omaha to develop and evaluate potential transit alternatives in the corridor between Downtown Omaha, Midtown Omaha, the University of Nebraska Medical Center (UNMC), the University of Nebraska at Omaha (UNO), and the Crossroads and Aksarben Village areas. This study will analyze the mobility needs in the area, and identify and compare the costs, benefits, and impacts of various transit alternatives. At the end of the study, locally preferred transit alternatives will be recommended for future evaluation.

[iamjacobm]

Thanks!

[bigredmed]

Would love to see this effort extend to real midtown (Burke HS area).

[almighty_tuna]

Would love to see this effort extend to real midtown (Burke HS area).

Midtown ≠ Middle of town

Burke is the burbs. Nothing remotely urban about that place. But that's getting dangerously off-topic into the urban/suburban horse beatings.

[bigredmed]

Would love to see this effort extend to real midtown (Burke HS area).

Midtown ≠ Middle of town

Burke is the burbs. Nothing remotely urban about that place. But that's getting dangerously off-topic into the urban/suburban horse beatings.

The points I was trying to make are:

1. There is a huge area of central Omaha with basically no mass transit service.
2. It would be nice to cover the whole city with basic service, before we expand the services for a few neighborhoods. Even Childrens Hospital is out of the area in question.

[GetUrban]

The Old Mill area is arguably dense enough to be considered a semi-urban node in the metro area, although the layout does not really lend itself to collecting people for mass transit, and it lacks many of the components of mixed-use development, such as residential space and walk-ability. It was designed for automobile access mostly, but the TD Ameritrade development is on the right track. Hopefully the area will continue to be developed into more of a pedestrian-friendly area instead of a no man's land.

[S33]

And midtown Manhattan may as well be tenth street. Point is, if u you want to mitigate suburban sprawl, these transportation plan better include larger swaths of the city, or we've accomplished Jack |expletive|.

[S33]

The Old Mill area is arguably dense enough to be considered a semi-urban node in the metro area, although the layout does not really lend itself to collecting people for mass transit, and it lacks many of the components of mixed-use development, such as residential space and walk-ability. It was designed for automobile access mostly, but the TD Ameritrade development is on the right track. Hopefully the area will continue to be developed into more of a pedestrian-friendly area instead of a no man's land.

how does the td development put the area " on the right track" for mixed use or transportation alternatives? Unless I'm missing something, its just another office building occupying tens of acres of land with a thousand parking spaces.

[nebport5]

And midtown Manhattan may as well be tenth street. Point is, if u you want to mitigate suburban sprawl, these transportation plan better include larger swaths of the city, or we've accomplished Jack |expletive|.

Ideally, Yes. However, trying to get the majority of this city's citizens to invest in their own community is d a m n near impossible. Therefore, in the meantime, a smaller area that demonstrates successfully would be easier to advocate for expansion later than funding a whole city wide system now.

[GetUrban]

And midtown Manhattan may as well be tenth street. Point is, if u you want to mitigate suburban sprawl, these transportation plan better include larger swaths of the city, or we've accomplished Jack |expletive|.

The city's latest master plan encourages infill development in older parts of the city to entice people to locate there instead of sprawling suburbs far from the core. Improving public transit in areas closer to the old urban core first enhances the goal of infill development. Makes sense to me, Jack.

[GetUrban]

The Old Mill area is arguably dense enough to be considered a semi-urban node in the metro area, although the layout does not really lend itself to collecting people for mass transit, and it lacks many of the components of mixed-use development, such as residential space and walk-ability. It was designed for automobile access mostly, but the TD Ameritrade development is on the right track. Hopefully the area will continue to be developed into more of a pedestrian-friendly area instead of a no man's land.

how does the td development put the area " on the right track" for mixed use or transportation alternatives? Unless I'm missing something, its just another office building occupying tens of acres of land with a thousand parking spaces.

TD is a higher density development than what we've seen at Old Mill in the past. Higher density = more mass transit friendly with a more concentrated destination.

Edit: I should add that there are also plans to connect TD to Old Mill areas west across the creek. That will give a pedestrian / bike friendly alternative, so you can take your bike and hop on the bus near TD, if they put a Metro stop there.

I don't have a problem with Old Mill becoming more like a traditional downtown core, although it has a long way to go. I admit I haven't studied TD closely, but doesn't it have a parking garage instead of all surface parking? Obviously, I wish they would have located downtown.

[iamjacobm]

And midtown Manhattan may as well be tenth street. Point is, if u you want to mitigate suburban sprawl, these transportation plan better include larger swaths of the city, or we've accomplished Jack |expletive|.

This is a pretty large study area though. Downtown to Crossroads to Aksarben Village isn't some neighborhood trolly line, that is a massive transportation infrastructure.

[Seth]

Although it's yet another study in a city that is very successful at transportations studies but less successful at implementing them, I think this one is promising. It's focusing on an area where improved mass transit can both be successful as well as provide a catalyst for more transit-friendly development. That's ultimately what's necessary to provide economically-feasible transit options. Most of the suburban single-family subdivisions simply don't have the density or street structure to allow economical mass transit.

[Seth]

BTW, the Oregon Iron Works streetcar in the new Metro livery looks fantastic.

[S33]

The Old Mill area is arguably dense enough to be considered a semi-urban node in the metro area, although the layout does not really lend itself to collecting people for mass transit, and it lacks many of the components of mixed-use development, such as residential space and walk-ability. It was designed for automobile access mostly, but the TD Ameritrade development is on the right track. Hopefully the area will continue to be developed into more of a pedestrian-friendly area instead of a no man's land.

how does the td development put the area " on the right track" for mixed use or transportation alternatives? Unless I'm missing something, its just another office building occupying tens of acres of land with a thousand parking spaces.

TD is a higher density development than what we've seen at Old Mill in the past. Higher density = more mass transit friendly with a more concentrated destination.

Edit: I should add that there are also plans to connect TD to Old Mill areas west across the creek. That will give a pedestrian / bike friendly alternative, so you can take your bike and hop on the bus near TD, if they put a Metro stop there.

I don't have a problem with Old Mill becoming more like a traditional downtown core, although it has a long way to go. I admit I haven't studied TD closely, but doesn't it have a parking garage instead of all surface parking? Obviously, I wish they would have located downtown.

I really don't care one way or another, I just do not see how (the rendering pictured below) does anything to help that neighborhood in terms of "mixed-use/density". And yes, there is plenty of surface parking, from what I can see.

To me, it's just another office building randomly scattered throughout Omaha. (West Telemarketing, Mockingbird Drive Area, First National/Coventry/Phoenix buildings along dodge)

Edit: And correct me if I'm wrong, they didn't necessarily add any density at all, the jobs were already local to that area, they simply did some demo and built a taller building (with a ridiculously huge footprint).

[nebugeater]

The Old Mill area is arguably dense enough to be considered a semi-urban node in the metro area, although the layout does not really lend itself to collecting people for mass transit, and it lacks many of the components of mixed-use development, such as residential space and walk-ability. It was designed for automobile access mostly, but the TD Ameritrade development is on the right track. Hopefully the area will continue to be developed into more of a pedestrian-friendly area instead of a no man's land.

how does the td development put the area " on the right track" for mixed use or transportation alternatives? Unless I'm missing something, its just another office building occupying tens of acres of land with a thousand parking spaces.

TD is a higher density development than what we've seen at Old Mill in the past. Higher density = more mass transit friendly with a more concentrated destination.

Edit: I should add that there are also plans to connect TD to Old Mill areas west across the creek. That will give a pedestrian / bike friendly alternative, so you can take your bike and hop on the bus near TD, if they put a Metro stop there.

I don't have a problem with Old Mill becoming more like a traditional downtown core, although it has a long way to go. I admit I haven't studied TD closely, but doesn't it have a parking garage instead of all surface parking? Obviously, I wish they would have located downtown.

I really don't care one way or another, I just do not see how (the rendering pictured below) does anything to help that neighborhood in terms of "mixed-use/density". And yes, there is plenty of surface parking, from what I can see.

To me, it's just another office building randomly scattered throughout Omaha. (West Telemarketing, Mockingbird Drive Area, First National/Coventry/Phoenix buildings along dodge)

Edit: And correct me if I'm wrong, they didn't necessarily add any density at all, the jobs were already local to that area, they simply did some demo and built a taller building (with a ridiculously huge footprint).

Most but not all of the jobs that are going into the new building are from the location in the Old Southroads mall if I am not mistaken so they are in fact adding to the area.

[OmahaJaysCU]

Besides the fact that what was there before were a just few small (and crappy I might add) 15,000 foot buildings...

[bigredmed]

Without making the center of the city connect to the eastern half's bus system, you encourage car use given that cars become the default means of transportation. If the city could build a series of express buses that would interlock with loop neighborhood buses (reliably), then a guy could ride the loop to the junction of the loop to the express bus, and then ride the express bus to the destination directly, or via a subsequent loop.

For example, a loop could be built to start at 120th and Blondo that would go east to 108th and Blondo then down 108 to the Old Mill area, then east to 114th, south to Pacific, then west to 120th, and back to Blondo. It could connect to a Pacific street based or Dodge street based express route at 120th. This would connect to the rest of the routes via the Westroads.

This bus route could service the offices in Old Mill north, south, and west, and the Miracle Hills offices/businesses, the apartment complexes at 114th, 120th, and along Blondo. It could provide walkable service to most of the area south of Burke, north of Beveridge, and the houses between 114th and I-680.

In other words, a lot of taxpayers see some benefit for the cost of a couple of buses.

Assuming the times worked out, on days when we am in one place, My wife and I could easily ride such a bus to work from my area of the city using such a loop system. So could lots of other people in my area.

Other areas of the city could then be plotted out and attached to the loop/express system as needed.

Currently, the bus system pretty much ends at 90th street for full service and extends to Oakview for a single express bus. I think we need to focus on a city wide sustainable system rather than a cadillac plan for one part of the city.

[Busguy2010]

Without making the center of the city connect to the eastern half's bus system, you encourage car use given that cars become the default means of transportation. If the city could build a series of express buses that would interlock with loop neighborhood buses (reliably), then a guy could ride the loop to the junction of the loop to the express bus, and then ride the express bus to the destination directly, or via a subsequent loop.

For example, a loop could be built to start at 120th and Blondo that would go east to 108th and Blondo then down 108 to the Old Mill area, then east to 114th, south to Pacific, then west to 120th, and back to Blondo. It could connect to a Pacific street based or Dodge street based express route at 120th. This would connect to the rest of the routes via the Westroads.

This bus route could service the offices in Old Mill north, south, and west, and the Miracle Hills offices/businesses, the apartment complexes at 114th, 120th, and along Blondo. It could provide walkable service to most of the area south of Burke, north of Beveridge, and the houses between 114th and I-680.

In other words, a lot of taxpayers see some benefit for the cost of a couple of buses.

Assuming the times worked out, on days when we am in one place, My wife and I could easily ride such a bus to work from my area of the city using such a loop system. So could lots of other people in my area.

Other areas of the city could then be plotted out and attached to the loop/express system as needed.

Currently, the bus system pretty much ends at 90th street for full service and extends to Oakview for a single express bus. I think we need to focus on a city wide sustainable system rather than a cadillac plan for one part of the city.

Actually, there's a route that serves almost all of what you just described. Its the 22 and it serves All of Old Mill, Miracle Hills, North Park and the Blondo Street corridor. It starts and ends at Westroads Transit Center. Now, there currently is an express bus that could be used to do what you speak of, except it only runs a few times during the weekday rush periods. I actually thought of a way to extend that express route to serve farther west and to the airport, and also expand the service hours and frequency. This would only require six buses which Metro could get by reducing service on route 2, 16 and the current 92 (since this express bus would cover the areas that these buses already do). I made a schedule and a google map of the route that I also posted to the Omaha Alternative Analysis.

This bus would run every 30 minutes all day except evenings/nights where it runs every 1 1/2 hours. The bus only stops at the time points on the schedule to keep it a fast moving route. The biggest perk would be the ability for west Omaha to use this bus to get directly to popular areas of downtown like the Old Market and Centurylink Center, as well as the Airport and the bus runs late enough for people to stay downtown till the bars close.

http://goo.gl/maps/QVF5 (Map)
http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachme ... -paint.jpg (Schedule)[/img]

[bigredmed]

Without making the center of the city connect to the eastern half's bus system, you encourage car use given that cars become the default means of transportation. If the city could build a series of express buses that would interlock with loop neighborhood buses (reliably), then a guy could ride the loop to the junction of the loop to the express bus, and then ride the express bus to the destination directly, or via a subsequent loop.

For example, a loop could be built to start at 120th and Blondo that would go east to 108th and Blondo then down 108 to the Old Mill area, then east to 114th, south to Pacific, then west to 120th, and back to Blondo. It could connect to a Pacific street based or Dodge street based express route at 120th. This would connect to the rest of the routes via the Westroads.

This bus route could service the offices in Old Mill north, south, and west, and the Miracle Hills offices/businesses, the apartment complexes at 114th, 120th, and along Blondo. It could provide walkable service to most of the area south of Burke, north of Beveridge, and the houses between 114th and I-680.

In other words, a lot of taxpayers see some benefit for the cost of a couple of buses.

Assuming the times worked out, on days when we am in one place, My wife and I could easily ride such a bus to work from my area of the city using such a loop system. So could lots of other people in my area.

Other areas of the city could then be plotted out and attached to the loop/express system as needed.

Currently, the bus system pretty much ends at 90th street for full service and extends to Oakview for a single express bus. I think we need to focus on a city wide sustainable system rather than a cadillac plan for one part of the city.

Actually, there's a route that serves almost all of what you just described. Its the 22 and it serves All of Old Mill, Miracle Hills, North Park and the Blondo Street corridor. It starts and ends at Westroads Transit Center. Now, there currently is an express bus that could be used to do what you speak of, except it only runs a few times during the weekday rush periods. I actually thought of a way to extend that express route to serve farther west and to the airport, and also expand the service hours and frequency. This would only require six buses which Metro could get by reducing service on route 2, 16 and the current 92 (since this express bus would cover the areas that these buses already do). I made a schedule and a google map of the route that I also posted to the Omaha Alternative Analysis.

This bus would run every 30 minutes all day except evenings/nights where it runs every 1 1/2 hours. The bus only stops at the time points on the schedule to keep it a fast moving route. The biggest perk would be the ability for west Omaha to use this bus to get directly to popular areas of downtown like the Old Market and Centurylink Center, as well as the Airport and the bus runs late enough for people to stay downtown till the bars close.

http://goo.gl/maps/QVF5 (Map)
http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachme ... -paint.jpg (Schedule)[/img]

You would need to expand this route south to Pacific and west to 120th and Pacific in order to get the residential areas and apartments along the area to be walkable to the bus stops. I would consider a 6 block walk about the limit I would be willing to put up with and then only in good weather and if the bus system could get me to work in a total elapsed time of 1 hour. I figure 1 hour is three times longer than it takes me to go from my drive way to my desk at UNMC and 4 times longer than it takes me to get to Childrens. I think that a 4 fold margin in favor of the bus is being more than fair.

As this route currently exists, it hits 118th and Miracle Hills road at its furthest west. That is over a mile north of Leavenworth and assuming I could get the bus, and then get to a Dodge street express bus, and then get to UNMC, I would be very late for work, pitted out from the walk, and would then have the same time pressure to go home.

If people want the buses to be used, you need to make it practical to use them.

[Busguy2010]

That's one of the pitfalls of living in the suburbs. In the area you're talking about, there will never be a "convenient" way to get to most places by bus simply because of the low-density layout. If we get the Elkhorn to Airport route that would serve as the backbone of the system, that would open up the opportunity for route expansion along 132nd, 144th, 168th and 204th, as the route stops in the very center of all of those corridors. More riders would accumulate and then that would open the opportunity for more localized bus routes that connect to the Express Bus stops. Something that might satisfy you would be an Oakview to Westroads route that uses 132nd, Pacific Street and Regency Parkway. This route would then connect to the Airport Express route and you would be in the UNMC area in approximately 35 minutes (not including the walk) by transfering from the Pacific route to the Airport Express. Another route I've made up involves removing the circulator status from route 22 and having it extend to the Millard area from the 120th and Miracle Hills stop via 120th Street, L Street Marketplace and Millard Ave. It would still serve Old Mill and Westroads to connect to the Express Bus. That's another route you might be interested in since it would ride right on 120th and takes you to many major shopping/errand running areas in either direction. As it stands right now, the quickest way for you to get from 120th and Leavenworth to UNMC would be to get on the 22 at 114th and Davenport, transfer to the 2 at Westroads and get off the 2 at Midtown TC. That would take about 55 minutes not including the walk. That's a 20 minute difference between what's in place now and what could be in place after the Airport Express is implemented, so you can see all of the good things that would progressively happen after things are initiated with the Airport Express. Increased service area and shortened travel time sounds like a win to me and the catalyst for all that change is only small negotiation away with the Airport Express. That may even mean in the future there will be a Pacific Street express bus that would take you directly to UNMC in less than 30 minutes!

Edit: I submit all of my ideas to Metro so they know what they could be doing to answer the wants and needs of Omaha in the transportation aspect. Now it's up to them to implement these ideas. Of course in some cases these new routes won't happen without increased funds so it's also up to the tax payers to be willing to accept any increase in transit tax if we really want better ways to get around on the bus.

[mrdwhsr]

I don't think I am at all interested in an increased transit tax if I will have to wait anywhere from 30 minutes to one hour for the next bus.

[cdub]

You cant make the bus for everyone. Metro has proven that. The way to improve transit is to build a 'cadillac' for areas with the density and demographics to use it. You dont need to abandon everything else but trying to be all things to all people is part (along with not enough cash) of what has made Metro pretty mediocre all this time. People can then have a choice, great service or only the bare bones. Right now the choice is bare bones or mediocre.

[S33]

lol. The old saying "You can have two of the three, but never all three - quality, service, and price".

I never thought it would translate into the public sector, as governments usually just spend whatever they want.

[bigredmed]

You cant make the bus for everyone. Metro has proven that. The way to improve transit is to build a 'cadillac' for areas with the density and demographics to use it. You dont need to abandon everything else but trying to be all things to all people is part (along with not enough cash) of what has made Metro pretty mediocre all this time. People can then have a choice, great service or only the bare bones. Right now the choice is bare bones or mediocre.

That would be fiine, but the 90% of the population that will have no reason to ever use the "cadillac plan" will be stuck paying for it. Not fair. If you want to change how people move in the city, you need to do a system that allows people to walk 6-9 blocks max to get a bus, then ride a circulator to an express stop and then shoot downtown to the next circulator.

Going buck wild on some small part of the city just makes everyone else that much more likely to either get mad at the system or check out of the process. Neither are good results.

[Brad]

FYI, The CWS Circulator is Free to First National customers that show their FNB Check Card.

Thank you for being a valued customer of First National Bank. Whether you're headed to the big college baseball championship or simply enjoying the festivities downtown, First National Bank wants to make your experience more enjoyable by allowing you to ride the Metro Stadium Circulator for FREE. Just show the bus driver any First National Bank debit or credit card between June 14th and June 25/26, and your ride is on us.

The Stadium Circulator is a 10-minute bus loop that runs everyday during the baseball championship games. It connects downtown parking garages with the Old Market and TD Ameritrade Park.

[mrdwhsr]

You cant make the bus for everyone. Metro has proven that. The way to improve transit is to build a 'cadillac' for areas with the density and demographics to use it. You dont need to abandon everything else but trying to be all things to all people is part (along with not enough cash) of what has made Metro pretty mediocre all this time. People can then have a choice, great service or only the bare bones. Right now the choice is bare bones or mediocre.

That would be fiine, but the 90% of the population that will have no reason to ever use the "cadillac plan" will be stuck paying for it. Not fair. If you want to change how people move in the city, you need to do a system that allows people to walk 6-9 blocks max to get a bus, then ride a circulator to an express stop and then shoot downtown to the next circulator.

Going buck wild on some small part of the city just makes everyone else that much more likely to either get mad at the system or check out of the process. Neither are good results.

We might be underestimating the portion of the 90% who will have no reason to use the "cadillac" but will support it hoping enough other people use it that their own auto-based commute is easier. On the other hand many of the 90% might not be capable of such a complex calculation.

[Busguy2010]

I know that right now "the taxpayers" wouldn't allow a city-wide "Cadillac" (assuming light-rail) system and if we made a city-wide "Ford" (assuming enhanced bus or Bus Rapid Transit) system, nobody would use it. I think the best bet is to build a more attractive "Cadillac" now with a limited service area with plans to expand, rather than make a "Ford" system that's essentially no different than what we have now.

[almighty_tuna]

Meh, I don't use the "Cadillac" of elevated expressways (West Dodge) but I'm still paying for it. |expletive| happens. Build some usable rail.

[thenewguy]

Meh, I don't use the "Cadillac" of elevated expressways (West Dodge) but I'm still paying for it. |expletive| happens. Build some usable rail.

exactly. testify.

[thenewguy]

Which one of you nerds is gonna be on channel 6 at 10 with some cockamamey subway plan? ;)

[Linkin5]

Which one of you nerds is gonna be on channel 6 at 10 with some cockamamey subway plan? ;)

I didn't get to catch that, what was that about?

[Brad]

Which one of you nerds is gonna be on channel 6 at 10 with some cockamamey subway plan? ;)

I didn't get to catch that, what was that about?

Some kid (who was a big nerd or at least wowt made him out to be a big nerd) made a mass transit map... Kind of like that 100+ maps that are on this forum.

[Linkin5]

Which one of you nerds is gonna be on channel 6 at 10 with some cockamamey subway plan? ;)

I didn't get to catch that, what was that about?

Some kid (who was a big nerd or at least wowt made him out to be a big nerd) made a mass transit map... Kind of like that 100+ maps that are on this forum.

Wow, slow news day apparently. They should start having segments about proposed projects from Minard.

[BRoss]

I can't seem to find the story online. I'm curious to see what he came up with.

[Brad]

I can't seem to find the story online. I'm curious to see what he came up with.

A red line, A yellow line, A green line, and a blue line...

I don't remember the exact details but bascially three were east west and one was north south.

Aparently its been shared 500 times on Facebook.

[iamjacobm]

Bigger question is why is some random guy's drawings news? Why not send a reporter to find real progress on the report or send some one for a Crossroads or A/V update or any of the hundred other things that would actually be news.

[Brad]

Bigger question is why is some random guy's drawings news? Why not send a reported to find real progress on the report of send some one for a Crossroads or A/V update or any of the hundred other things that would actually be news.

Wowt... If its on Facebook, it is real news!

[Linkin5]

Bigger question is why is some random guy's drawings news? Why not send a reporter to find real progress on the report or send some one for a Crossroads or A/V update or any of the hundred other things that would actually be news.

Or do a story about the multitude of people that have made maps and websites for Omaha light rail.

[BRoss]

I can't seem to find the story online. I'm curious to see what he came up with.

A red line, A yellow line, A green line, and a blue line...

I don't remember the exact details but bascially three were east west and one was north south.

Aparently its been shared 500 times on Facebook.

Is this it? (click for a bigger view):