DT night pic

the1wags · Post by **the1wags** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:17 pm

Hi everybody, just joined on here but have read here for a few months. I've lived here for just under a year and really like it here. Anyways I took this picture Nov 11th and thought I'd share it with you.

DMRyan · Post by **DMRyan** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:18 pm

A familiar angle for photos, but I like the reflection on the water. This photo really shows the need for an enhanced lighting scheme on the Central Park Plaza.

Coyote · Post by **Coyote** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:25 pm

Exactly! The lighting scheme needs top level observance.

OmahaDevelopmentMan · Post by **OmahaDevelopmentMan** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:39 pm

A familiar angle for photos, but I like the reflection on the water. This photo really shows the need for an enhanced lighting scheme on the Central Park Plaza.

Shouldn't we find someone to use the buildings first? Aren't they currently vacant?

DMRyan · Post by **DMRyan** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:47 pm

They're not entirely vacant are they? That's still Class A office space so it's only a matter of time before another tenant jumps back in.

OmahaDevelopmentMan · Post by **OmahaDevelopmentMan** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:00 pm

Well, First National did have a ton of space in one of the towers until FNC was built. Con Agra also was a major tenant but they consoldated to their campus(only took maybe 20 years lol). So I think currently they are still quite a bit vacant, maybe not all vacant.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:37 pm

I thought they were all vacant. It wouldn't bother me if they got rid off Central Park Plaza though. It is stupid to have a building with that much ofice space split into 2 buildings. Before FNC and UP opened it was the largest building(s) office space-wise in DT. If they would have built them on top of each other and had a 424' building intsead of 2 212' buildings I would want to keep it. If we got rid of them it would also open up the 16th. St side for more high rise residences and restaurants.

Finn · Post by **Finn** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:56 am

Come on! Get rid of those towers?

When they were built in the 1980's they were considered the best new hi-rises in the Midwest (according to one architectural magazine). Those towers are different/aesthetically attractive and have a long-remaining useful lives. It amazes me how so many on this forum are so obsessed with height and what we could have had if we stacked buildings, blah blah blah.

Good planning, functionality, financing and marketability are important in a downtown, not just having a bunch of towers that look like every other American city for an ego boost. It is nice to have some modern towers but not a canyon of towers that destroys pedestrian scale and activity. That is one of the charms of Washington DC and not everyone out here is complaining that little Baltimore has more hi-rises. We can't just build tall buildings, you have to have an understanding of commercial real estate to understand why Omaha does not have a skyline like Minneapolis. Omaha's downtown has made great strides in the past several years but there is a market to think about.

Downtown has a large vacancy rate so let's wait until we fill some office space before whining about the height of our skyline.

Whew, I need a break after that!

projectman · Post by **projectman** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:29 pm

I like the twin towers even though they're only 15 stories. I like the V shape they form together and I like the way the sun reflects off of them in the morning.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:55 am

It's not even as much about height as it is they are useless, ugly, and in the way. Here's a more in-depth look of why they should go IMO.

1. Like you said Finn, they were built in the 1980's. I'm sure they thought the Zorinsky building looked good in the '50's with the Jetson-esque turquoise panels. (Jeff. You should get a barf Emoticon like the one in KC.) They don't match anyof the old or new structures. Since they are in a very visible spot they will only stand out more as time goes on.

2. Since they take up an entire block, their vacancy adds to the dismal atmosphere of 16th St. (I actually don't think it's that bad) Parkfair hasn't been open since forever. Walgreens is gone. The buildings are empty. Since the powers that be are wanting to turn 16th into a success the area would be better served by residences than office space. Even if the residence towers were the same height as CPP they would be a more enlivening affect on the area with 24hr residences and shops instead of a 9-5 office building.

3. I do want to see more buildings (Preferably tall) in DT. Right now we do have an abundance of office space. And one way to cut down on that vacany rate is to get rid of what we're not using. I understand it is important to have readily available office space DT but we might have to much to offer right now. We have had our corporate HQ rennaisance DT and the completion of FNC and UP ended it. The future of DT construction right now will be residences. CPP happens to be a very integral part of an area that people want to see succeed (16th St.) and I believe it is a reason why the area is failing. It hasn't had any one that has wanted to take up a major portion of the buildings even though it is probably the best vacant/mostly vancant building we have.

4. I know stacking the buildings up makes me seem desperate for a new tall building DT, but the buildings for me symbolize Omaha's infamous approach to growth with 2 steps forward, 1 step back approach to everything and adding to our old infuriority complex about Omaha not being a real big city. (UP's headquarters height reduction, the Marriot hotel, under building the Qwest Center, and poor traffic planning out west to name a few big coulda shoulda wouldas)

Finn · Post by **Finn** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:40 am

They are not useless, ugly or in the way. There are office towers in downtown, that is where they are supposed to be!

1. They were built in the 80's and have a long economic life ahead. They are renovating the Zorinsky, not demolishing it as it still has an economic life. The towers are BRICK and attractive. They don't match? Tell me which downtown hi-rises fit this Garanimal scheme.

2. More residences are coming to the area and ParkFair may be an asset again at some point. This is downtown - the central business district - mixing development is good and residences are needed but not at the expense of a perfectly good office building. Besides, no developer is going to come in and put up a residential development of this scale.

3. We have a high vacancy rate but Pacific Life coming to town, UP bringing in more jobs from St. Louis, etc. will help fill some of that void. High vacancy rates are a reality across the country due to the economy. The corporate build-up that occurred also contributed, but this will also bring in more activity as will the residential boom. It is necessary to have fluidity in the market with some available space and growth over the next few years will help to correct this. It is the market functioning and correcting itself, but you can't start knocking down buildings when they have a large vacancy rate. That is why owners still keep these buildings and try to lease what they can to ride out the cycle.

4. Yes, you do seem desperate for skyscrapers. Why does Omaha have to be a real big city, it is a real city. It is a city that is going through tremendous growth and it is doing so with vision and the proper steps. These things take time and are based on assumptions and the future - unknowns. The Qwest Center was not underbuilt. Convention centers/arenas are notorious losers of money. Yet, cities develop them to help spur the economy and bring people to town. The Qwest has outperformed all estimates to this point. It won't necessarily stay in the black into the future. It was wise to build the Qwest as they did because it is better to be conservative in development. If they would have spent millions more and the Qwest failed to meet the expectations, the taxpayers would have been foaming at the mouth. The Marriott was not a better hotel than the Hilton, just taller (and the renderings looked exactly like a few Marriotts in the DC area - nothing unique for Omaha). The Hilton is a great hotel and better fits the Qwest Center and that part of downtown. UP also approached their headquarters correctly. It is just a blessing that they continue to grow. But I'm sure they are wary of gas prices, Burlington Northern growth and the trucking market.

Real estate/development is a difficult business and most in the business are more cautious after the crash in the late 90's. There is still a lot of sub-leased space in the market and still corrections to go through in many markets - like Omaha. However, it is not prudent to knock down a building that has 50+ years of an economic life remaining in the heart of the central business district. As Omaha continues to grow and attract more business, this space will be utilized. It would be sad if it was removed and new/expanding businesses had to look elsewhere for office space.[/img]

eomaha · Post by **eomaha** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:46 am

Thank you.

j4nu · Post by **j4nu** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:18 am

Nice reply Finn. I too find these building to be a fine addition to the skyline and I always liked the backdroup they provided for the mall.

As for park fair, I am sure someone will find a way to breath new life into them. I think Walgreens leaving is a little short sighted on their part. If I am counting right, there will be 300 plus new residences moving into 16th street in the near future. That is at least 300 - 600 more people that will need many day to day necessities that Walgreens provides.

KansasCityCraka · Post by **KansasCityCraka** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 9:35 pm

There is a lot more color at the moment in Omaha that KC right now i don't know what is going on in KC we use to have a wonderful light show it seemed every night but now we have only the Bartle Hall Pylons light up. It's weird.

almighty_tuna · Post by **almighty_tuna** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 9:54 pm

I was in KC for most of this weekend and saw a wonderful view of DT KC at sunset. It was on 635 just north of where you cross the river, in the flats where there's no development. The sun was reflecting beautifully on the buildings. Its sure worth a shot if you feel brave enough to stop on the freeway!