Cabela's/Amusement Park

SolitaryMan · Post by **SolitaryMan** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:12 am

With the death of LB 500 in the Unicam, it seems that these projects are effectively dead. I know in the OWH yesterday Cabela's said they were still interested in a Sarpy Co. location, but with the death of incentives from the tax payers, and the apparent interest from Iowa local government to pick up where Nebraska left off, I don't see how these are going to happen. Special thanks to Sen. Ernie Chambers for this one.

scraper · Post by **scraper** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:34 am

I agree, thanks Ernie for actually standing up to a big business who thinks they need tax incentives to build a building in an area where they will make money. I for one, appreciate my tax dollars not lining the pockets of rich individuals.

projectman · Post by **projectman** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:27 am

In their home state no less. Lets burden home owners with more taxes because Cabellas is special and they don't have to pay their fair share.

projectman · Post by **projectman** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:40 am

I wonder if Cabella's got tax breaks to build their flagship store in Sidney?

Greg S · Post by **Greg S** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:03 am

I'm assuming they got some sort of tax break when they expanded their headquarters, but no idea on the store.

I don't think the amusement park was going to happen either way. Iowa did everything for him and he could not keep up his end. Plus did we really want want that is constantly struggling to come up with the funds. I'd rather wait and get something done right by a more stable outfit.

I had mixed emotions on the Cabela's deal. I saw where Scheel's was not pleased because they made a sizeable investment in their store and did not get tax breaks. Granted they are not as big of an attraction to outsiders but they are the largest anchor store at Village Pointe, and compete with Cabela's on many items.

I would like to see Cabela's build in the North Downtown area. I also want to see something go through on this bill that would help get the stadium built. I heard they may try another bill next section that would not have the retail component.

Greg

SolitaryMan · Post by **SolitaryMan** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:34 am

Lining the pockets of rich corporations? Please....providing tax incentives to companies like Cabela's or this amusement park is a GOOD THING! If they build, they create new jobs, which generates revenue for the state in the form of income taxes. If they build, they create revenue for the county and municipalities around it in the form of sales taxes. If they build they generate new infrastructure in the area which leads to further development by other "rich corporations" in the area creating even more revenue in the form of sales and income taxes. Incentives are a good thing for this reason, and Sarpy Co. as well as the State stands to loose a lot by not passing LB 500.

scraper · Post by **scraper** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:48 am

Yeah, we get lots of $7.00/hr cashier jobs - those are sure worth giving tax incentives!

I agree that incentives are good when the business model does not work without them and the business is something that would improve the area. However, you can't tell me that Cabela's would not make money on the Sarpy store even if they paid for the store with their own money.

This is simply the rich trying to get richer on taxpayers' money.

nebraska dreamin' · Post by **nebraska dreamin'** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:01 am

The problem is that other states and cities are offering these types of incentives. We can complain about corporate welfare, but at some point Nebraska has to try to stay competive in the business environment. I don't know if LB 500 was exactly what NE needs but you have to look at what the competition (other states) is offering.

nebraska dreamin' · Post by **nebraska dreamin'** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:01 am

The problem is that other states and cities are offering these types of incentives. We can complain about corporate welfare, but at some point Nebraska has to try to stay competive in the business environment. I don't know if LB 500 was exactly what NE needs but you have to look at what the competition (other states) is offering.

projectman · Post by **projectman** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:34 pm

I think LB 775 was great for Nebraska in 1987. Definitely good for the state. Some form of that needs to be revised and marketed. But now retail establishments want tax breaks. Give me a break. Every retail established on earth will want freebees. When are the taxpayers going to get a break.

There has to be a line in the sand that says we are going to give this away for these types of businesses that invest this much, create this many jobs at $50,000(or what ever). These minimum wage jobs, while necessary, aren't worth the millions the state gives back in taxes. Especially in a state with only 1.8 million people.

DMRyan · Post by **DMRyan** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:55 pm

I agree projectman.

Have a minimum salary range for jobs created to receive benefits. Instead of giving money over to companies, how about tax credits for so many jobs created?

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:00 pm

There was a stipulation on percentage of jobs over the state median in LB500, I believe, but I don't remember the exact numbers. Of course, the state median is somewhere south of $9.50/hr. Great. I'd love to spend my tax dollars to create jobs that don't contribute to the tax base.

You need the nickels going out the door to come back disguised as dimes, not pennies.

-Big E

OmahaDevelopmentMan · Post by **OmahaDevelopmentMan** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:55 pm

projectman I couldn't agree more. I think the argument of Cabela's creating jobs is lame. I mean a new Hy Vee (using only bc I work there) opens a good 200-250 jobs are created. Most of which are getting paid equal or a little less than a Cabela's clerk. We aren't out trying to get the state to give us tax breaks becaue we will create tax revenues and jobs. I hope next session a similar bill is proposed, but this time, without RETAIL.

SolitaryMan · Post by **SolitaryMan** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:03 pm

I don't know about you, but I've never traveled more than ten minutes to get to the grocery store. On the other hand, people travel hundreds of miles to go to a Cabela's, and at the very least, if they're passing through Nebraska, as millions of people do every year, they stop and spend money because they've heard of it. The same can't be said for the new Hy-Vee at 51st and Center. You can not, under any circumstances compare Cabela's to a grocery store. This sort of place is a tourist destination - it put Sydney, Nebraska on the map and would do wonders for a place like Sarpy Co.

The same goes for an amusement park. Sure, it's another mid-wage employer. However, it will draw more business than any other mid-wage employer in the State. Comparing LB 500 to LB 775 is like comparing apples and oranges.

OmahaDevelopmentMan · Post by **OmahaDevelopmentMan** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:08 pm

Sorry, I must not have been clear with what I'm saying. All I'm sayin is that Cabela's was unfair in using the angle of creating jobs. There are plenty of businesses that create jobs. It was a lame angle in my opinion, and thats what I was getting at.

GoWest · Post by **GoWest** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:22 pm

I’ll go ahead and compare Cabela’s and Hy-Vee. The difference is that Cabela’s hasn’t expanded as much yet. They are going to be popping up all over the place in the next 10 years. Look at the way they are expanding now. And with Bass Pro Shops these will be old news before you know it. Every state around us except Wyoming has one and Nebraska already has two. Maybe it’s because I have no need for anything in a Cabela’s but I’m not impressed and don’t care if we ever get one. I’m not a fan of corporate welfare. Especially for 300 cashier jobs.

projectman · Post by **projectman** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:16 pm

Thanks guys.

Explain to me why someone would want to travel to Nebraska to visit Cabella's. I'm sure they would rather go to Arizona and visit their new store. Yes - people will stop at Cabella's while traveling through but please don't tell me Cabella's will be a tourist destination. If this state is that hard up for tourist dollars we are in trouble.

If you don't want to compare Cabella's to HyVee then how about Scheels, Dick Sporting Goods, Gaylan's, Nebraska Sporting Goods, Canfields, DeCostas, Hauff, Guns Unlimited, Midwest Sporting Goods, Sports Authority and the list goes on. If we give Cabella's a break we better give all of the other Outdoor/Sporting Goods retailers the same break.

I'm all for tax breaks for the appropriate industry/corporation but lets not rape ourselves.

Finn · Post by **Finn** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:23 pm

Projectman, I think you just put a period at the end of this one.

eomaha · Post by **eomaha** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:36 pm

I may be wrong... but I think it is driving Cabela's nuts that Bass Pro Shops is building a store in the largest market of their home state. I think tax breaks or not... Cabela's is building in the metro.

Post by **nebugeater** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:23 am

projectman wrote:Thanks guys.

. If this state is that hard up for tourist dollars we are in trouble.

If you don't want to compare Cabella's to HyVee then how about Scheels, Dick Sporting Goods, Gaylan's, Nebraska Sporting Goods, Canfields, DeCostas, Hauff, Guns Unlimited, Midwest Sporting Goods, Sports Authority and the list goes on.

Note of clirifcation, Gaylan's no longer exists as they were taken over by Dick Sporting Goods and the Gaylan's name no longer exists.

Should have been the other way around.

HskrFanMike · Post by **HskrFanMike** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:45 pm

Candidate for governor Dave Nabity (you know, the 3rd guy in the race who isn't either the current governor or former football coach) is calling for a special session of the legislature to vote on LB 500.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=46&u_sid=1441503

Still not sure I agree with LB 500 for Cabelas - mostly because the only traffic it will draw is from the Omaha metro area, for the most part. Kansas City has Cabelas. Minneapolis has Cabelas. Denver has the Sidney location. So there really isn't a tourist draw for a Cabelas here.

Blog: http://huskermike.blogspot.com

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:56 pm

Well, I hope they pass LB 500 for the sake of the amusment park since I don't really care for Cabella's. That doesn't mean I wouldn't mind having one here, though.

I don't understand your reasoning for there "not being a tourist draw" for it here.

HskrFanMike · Post by **HskrFanMike** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:19 pm

Where will the tourists that are drawn to an Omaha Cabelas come from?

I-80 cross-country tourists? Already have the Sidney and Kearney locations.
Kansas City or Minneapolis? Already have Cabelas.
Des Moines? Travel to Omaha instead of KC or Minneapolis? Unlikely.
Sioux City? Is that the market we're after?

OmahaDevelopmentMan · Post by **OmahaDevelopmentMan** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:15 pm

HskrFanMike wrote:Where will the tourists that are drawn to an Omaha Cabelas come from?

I-80 cross-country tourists? Already have the Sidney and Kearney locations.
Kansas City or Minneapolis? Already have Cabelas.
Des Moines? Travel to Omaha instead of KC or Minneapolis? Unlikely.
Sioux City? Is that the market we're after?

]

The Sidney and Kearney locations are nothing compared to what they are building now. Kearney flat out stinks and Sidney is only half as big as the new stores. Besides, heading west on 80 what location is there to draw from? I'm still undiscided on how I feel about this though. I'm more of a fan of it because of the amusement park and the stadium.

eomaha · Post by **eomaha** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:17 pm

HskrFan,

1. A Sarpy county location would draw considerably more people off of I-80 than the Sidney (Kearney isn't a superstore) location.

2. We're forgetting the largest group of prospective patrons to be captured... the metro Omahans we are losing to the KC store (it's the casino problem all over again... just now it's sales tax dollars being lost, instead of gambling revenue).

3. Des Moines residents traveling to Omaha instead of KC? With each attraction 'feather' we add to our cap... the chances for that happening continues to grow. In case you hadn't noticed, we're already getting plenty of Polk County visitors without the Cabelas.

4. As Aaron suggested, this is about more than just Cabelas. It's about a proposed amusement park and downtown baseball stadium as well.

GoWest · Post by **GoWest** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:56 pm

I disagree that this will be a tourist draw because of all the reasons that have been mentioned before. This will be a huge cash generator for them though. On the move by Nabity, he is simply playing politics, nothing else.

eomaha · Post by **eomaha** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:04 pm

I disagree that this will be a tourist draw

Once again, we're focusing far too much on Cabela's. Although just the sales taxes retained (in the state) should be enough to get the attention of most. And this isn't a Scheel's cannibalization issue... there are rednecks out there (sorry, not my kind of store

) that will shop no where but Cabela's. Although Cabela's may find that Bass Pro Shops siphons off a piece of their customer base... and because of that, I still think ultimately Cabela's will build in the metro regardless of incentives offered... just to counter Bass Pro Shops presence.

GoWest · Post by **GoWest** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:11 pm

I think they will build here either way too. So why give them money to do it. I also think the amusement park will become a reality without this bill as well. I think this much was evident from what Cabelas and the amusement park developer said in their interviews with the media when commenting on the bills. I think the baseball park downtown would be hurt the most by this not going through because it had the farthest to go.

eomaha · Post by **eomaha** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:18 pm

I think Steve Minard needs all the financial support he can get. If an amusement park is built WITHOUT LB500... it's not going to be Minard's.

OmahaDevelopmentMan · Post by **OmahaDevelopmentMan** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:36 pm

jhuston wrote:I think Steve Minard needs all the financial support he can get. If an amusement park is built WITHOUT LB500... it's not going to be Minard's.

Which is why we need a bill similar to this, minus the retail to pass. If LB500 didn't say RETAIL in it, it would have been passed with little trouble. I bet the royals and minard will team up next session backing a similar bill.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:55 pm

So the heck what if Cabela's jsut brings money to the Omaha metro? The rest of the state wil get there's eventually. Just the city of Omaha pays for half of everything in this state, so the rest of the state should be bending backwards to help us. All we are to the rest of the state is a baby's daddy. They don't like us but they love our money.

HskrFanMike · Post by **HskrFanMike** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:12 pm

Don't get me wrong, I hope all of these plans get built.

But I don't see any justification to providing any tax incentives to these businesses. The Royals will bring absolutely no money from outside of Omaha. The amusement park will bring virtually no money from outside of Omaha. And Cabela's will bring almost no money from outside of Omaha.

If we give these guys special tax breaks, then everybody who wants to build something is going to demand a tax break.

Now, if you want to build something special that will truly bring tourist from around the country here, then that's something different. I don't know what that is, but it has to be something that isn't within 500 miles of Omaha. If KC or Minneapolis already have it, fuggedaboutit.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:22 pm

That's the |expletive| stupidest thing I've ever heard. You think Des Moines will close Advetureland just because every city around them ( except us. KC, Mpls, Chicago) has one? No. would Des Moines close Jordan Creek because Mall of America is drawing people to it? No. Should KC give up the Royals and Chiefs because STL has the Rams and Cards? No.

Everyone wants their piece of the pie. I'm not for the Royals stadium, but when a stupid hunting store is the #1 TOURIST actraction in Pennsylvania (Just think of what there is to do in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia alone) than they probably should be given want they want here. And one of the biggest gripes that people who are down on the are say is there's nothing to do. Don't you think an amusement park would change that image? Oh I don't know maybe a few more people might stick around Omaha and 1 guy from Sioux City can come with the 5 or 10 people from KC and Des Moines.

Also we don't have to say yes to every developer looking for a hand out. If one doesn't like it than we'll just go to the next guy in line.

OmahaDevelopmentMan · Post by **OmahaDevelopmentMan** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:25 pm

HskrFanMike wrote:Don't get me wrong, I hope all of these plans get built.

But I don't see any justification to providing any tax incentives to these businesses. The Royals will bring absolutely no money from outside of Omaha. The amusement park will bring virtually no money from outside of Omaha. And Cabela's will bring almost no money from outside of Omaha.

If we give these guys special tax breaks, then everybody who wants to build something is going to demand a tax break.

Are you kidding me!?!? How will an amusement park not draw from outside Omaha? Do you drive to Des Moines to go to Adventureland or Kansas city to go to Worlds of Fun? Why would they not do the same thing to our park. Granted they have their own, but millions of people gi around the country going to different amusement parks. Plus there is also the drivers just driving down I 80 who would make a stop on the way to Denver or something. Seriousely, I understand about the Royals, but come on, its amusement parks are major attractions. IT will draw people from outside Omaha. Why would they want to build one if it didn't?

Minneapolis Boy · Post by **Minneapolis Boy** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:31 pm

Gee, we shouldn't have built the QWest since areana already existed in KC, St. Paul and Minneapolis. They'll come to an amusement park - if it's decent!

HskrFanMike · Post by **HskrFanMike** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:55 am

I didn't say "tear these things down".

I said "don't give them extra-special tax incentives unless they are truly extra special".

The Qwest Center arena was built for Omaha. The Qwest Center Convention Center was built for the region. At that time, KC didn't have much of a convention center, and neither did Des Moines. So it made sense at that time to do it, and it's done well.

As for this specific amusement park, considering the problems this developer has had getting this project going over the years in various locations (Papa's Park, etc.), I really doubt it will be anything "special". Would it be an addition to the Omaha area? Almost definitely. Is it worth throwing a bunch of tax incentives his way? Definitely not.

loyalomahan · Post by **loyalomahan** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:00 am

I'm confused why people (okay person) don't recognize the value in simply keeping our own people (and yes, that includes a large region... you know Eppley isn't drawing more people than many larger metros because we're serving Omahans alone) in Omaha... supporting Omaha attractions. Yes, there are tax revenues to be realized in what has been historically LOST to other states by our own people. Built it for -us-. That said, it is silly to think these attractions/venues are not drawing SOME people from parts elsewhere.

icejammer · Post by **icejammer** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:33 am

I don't think the question is whether there's value in keeping people in the region, it's as to whether tax dollars should be utilized for that purpose. I think opponents of the bill have a legitimate beef with the provisions benefitting retail. "Destination" retail or not, Cabela's can certainly make a go of it around here without tax benefits. I can certainly understand the passion and desire for having an amusement park and a new ballpark, but has anyone (and I'm talking an outside, impartial group) done an analysis as to whether the tax foregone is offset by the benefits from having these types of attractions?

eomaha · Post by **eomaha** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:58 am

Sales taxes, revenue to a Nebraska based business, salaries to Nebraska residents, new revenue to Nebraska businesses from these newly employed Nebraska residents, revenue to other Nebraska attractions/businesses from (yes, there will be a few) visitors, etc, etc... why is it so hard to see the benefits of a few economic incentives. And for once and for all... this is about more than Cabela's.

HskrFanMike · Post by **HskrFanMike** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:48 am

...there are existing incentive programs that should be available to any business looking to expand.

But let's not confuse the issue by reappropriating "tourism" funds for projects that won't generate much tourism.