Shopping Mall What ifs

[mrsticka]

Sometimes I wonder what if certain malls had been built differently or a bit larger, but not much. Obviously, these are unrealistic expectations, but it never hurts to imagine.

Crossroads Mall:



Oak View Mall:



Gateway Mall in Lincoln:

[nebugeater]

Just a reminder that Gatway mall in Lincoln started out as primarily an outdoor mall and was inclosed

[mrsticka]

Yup, it didn't become enclosed until 1995 when they added JCPenney's to it.

[Linkin5]

Yup, it didn't become enclosed until 1995 when they added JCPenney's to it.

I could be wrong but I am like 90% sure I remember it being an enclosed mall well before that.

[mrsticka]

Yup, it didn't become enclosed until 1995 when they added JCPenney's to it.

I could be wrong but I am like 90% sure I remember it being an enclosed mall well before that.

Well, part of it was. That east corridor that led to Sears was always enclosed when it was originally built.

[Linkin5]

Ah gotcha didn’t know that. Was the old food court at Gateway that was replaced in about 2004 originally put in about 1995?

[mrsticka]

Ah gotcha didn’t know that. Was the old food court at Gateway that was replaced in about 2004 originally put in about 1995?

I believe so. It wasn't very big. Only 4 or 5 places to go. Arby's was one of them.

[mrsticka]

By the way, in case anyone's wondering what the gray spots are for, the light gray ones are supposed to be the other little shops and stores. The dark gray ones on the second floors are supposed to be the gaps in the middle of the floors with those little walkways to go from one side to the other. Most malls have them.

[Greg S]

Ah gotcha didn’t know that. Was the old food court at Gateway that was replaced in about 2004 originally put in about 1995?

I believe so. It wasn't very big. Only 4 or 5 places to go. Arby's was one of them.

Gateway was so odd in the 80's. I worked at Brandeis my first year at UNL in 86 (worked for Brandeis in Omaha, then Brandeis/Younkers during summer and winter breaks until I graduated, both Crossroads and Westroads). I remember some sort of food court then. I had to walk outside from Brandeis to get there. If memory serves, it had a Taco Inn. JCPenny's was at the mall but across the parking lot.

Greg

[mrsticka]

When I was making that directory for Oak View Mall, I had trouble with the food court. It looks smaller than the actual one, which was not my intention. It was not easy to make.

[Greg S]

I think the biggest miss in shopping malls was Oak View. When they added Sears and JCPenny's (It initially opened with Younkers and Dillards only as the anchors), they didn't add new wings. When Crossroads added Dillard's they built a wing for it. When Westroads added Von Maur, they added a wing. I think this solidified Oak View behind Westroads in the pecking order of malls in town. If they had added wings with more stores they might have become the top mall in town. They also really would have benefited from a new anchor. Crossroads for a time had the only Dillard's and it drew tons of people there. Westroads once they got Von Maur, was unique (and still is) with them in town.

Greg

[nebport5]

I think the biggest miss in shopping malls was Oak View. When they added Sears and JCPenny's (It initially opened with Younkers and Dillards only as the anchors), they didn't add new wings. When Crossroads added Dillard's they built a wing for it. When Westroads added Von Maur, they added a wing. I think this solidified Oak View behind Westroads in the pecking order of malls in town. If they had added wings with more stores they might have become the top mall in town. They also really would have benefited from a new anchor. Crossroads for a time had the only Dillard's and it drew tons of people there. Westroads once they got Von Maur, was unique (and still is) with them in town.

Greg

I hear your point but the Von Maur wing hasn't exactly had the most exciting tenants outside of Von Maur. Oak View, much like V.P., has always been a mess to get in and out of which for a city that likes to park by the front door...so much easier to go to Westroads. I don't think there ever was, but imagine valet parking for people headed to Penny's and Sears . Perhaps Oak View would have been wise to create an adjacent parking structure or two. Still, it's obvious V.P. sucked a good chunk of vitality out of Oak View. There's also something to be said for what the market has been able to support and Oak View also lagged for "destination" tenants.

[mrsticka]

When Crossroads added Dillard's and that new 2-level north-south wing, they should've also extended the second floor above the original ground level of the original east-west wing between Sears and Younker's.

[mrsticka]

What if there was a Northroads Mall at 72nd and I-680? How would it look? This probably isn't the greatest design in the world, but at least I tried.

[NEDodger]

It would have closed 25 years ago.

[bigredmed1]

It would have closed 25 years ago.

If it lasted that long.
..

[GetUrban]

What if there was a Northroads Mall at 72nd and I-680? How would it look? This probably isn't the greatest design in the world, but at least I tried.

There is a brand new Amazon fulfillment Center at 72nd a State Street that has been sitting there unused for the last 1-1/2 years. Growth in the north central part of Omaha has been super slow for a long time. A Northwestroads might have worked out by the I-680 / Blair High Road area, since growth has been stronger way out in that direction.

[mrsticka]

Well, it never hurts to ask. But I do have one question. How come all the malls around the Omaha area are (or were) called "Roads" anyway? With the notable exception of Oak View, of course. I mean, there's WestROADS. There were CrossROADS and SouthROADS, both of which are now gone. But why the "Roads" suffix? Was that just something Omaha liked to do?

[mrsticka]

Since I made that custom directory of Crossroads Mall if they actually built the second floor above the original east-west wing, I was curious to know what the exterior might have looked like if they actually had.

The top is the original and the bottom is the edit to make it look like the second floor extends above the original east-west wing. I know it probably doesn't look right and it's not perfect. It wasn't meant to be. I readded the Dillard's sign. And yes, I'm aware there was never a Macy's there.

This is obviously never going to happen since Crossroads has been demolished, but I just wanted to see what it might have looked like if they had done this back in the 80's when they extended it.

[mrsticka]

Okay, I've made more detailed, somewhat better looking custom made directories of Crossroads and Oak View.

Crossroads Mall with the second floor extending above the original east-west wing:


Oak View Mall with the south wing splitting into 2 sections leading to Sears and Macy's:


Oak View with a more simplistic version of the south wing leading to Sears:


Yeah, I also added a basement level to Oak View with an arcade room. I'll admit I may have gotten a little carried away with these things, but I just had to make them, get it out of my system.

I will say this: Making Oak View's food court and trying to align it evenly was not an easy task.

And about all those restaurants/vendors that I have listed in the food court both past and (hypothetical) present, they're not all right. I don't know what all was in them for real. But for sure, some of them I have listed were at one point or another.

[guy4omaha]

Well, it never hurts to ask. But I do have one question. How come all the malls around the Omaha area are (or were) called "Roads" anyway? With the notable exception of Oak View, of course. I mean, there's WestROADS. There were CrossROADS and SouthROADS, both of which are now gone. But why the "Roads" suffix? Was that just something Omaha liked to do?

My vague recollection is that Brandeis was behind building both the Crossroads and Southroads. They liked the "roads" name concept apparently. I want to say they were behind the initial development of Westroads too. But I trust my memory less on that one.

[Bob from Omaha]

Well, it never hurts to ask. But I do have one question. How come all the malls around the Omaha area are (or were) called "Roads" anyway? With the notable exception of Oak View, of course. I mean, there's WestROADS. There were CrossROADS and SouthROADS, both of which are now gone. But why the "Roads" suffix? Was that just something Omaha liked to do?

My vague recollection is that Brandeis was behind building both the Crossroads and Southroads. They liked the "roads" name concept apparently. I want to say they were behind the initial development of Westroads too. But I trust my memory less on that one.

Brandeis built both Crossroads and Southroads. There was a plan for a Northroads too.

[mrsticka]

I still think 72nd and I-680 would've been the perfect location for Northroads.

On another note, if anyone wants to make their own custom directories of malls in Omaha or Lincoln like Westroads, Crossroads, Oak View or Gateway, go right ahead.

[mrsticka]

All right, since I made a custom exterior of what Crossroads Mall - er, the FORMER Crossroads Mall - might've looked like had the second floor also gone above the original east-west wing, I figured I'd try making one with Oak View Mall. I wonder what it might've looked like had it been slightly bigger with a couple more wings.

On the left is the original with only 2 wings leading to Dillard's and the former Younker's and the JCPenney's and former Sears both right by the food court. In the middle is my concept of what Oak View might look like with JCPenney's and Sears having their own wings that lead to them. Looks like a 4-way cross, doesn't it? And the one on the right has the south wing splitting into 2 sections with one leading to Sears and the other to Macy's.

Yes, my editing here is obviously very lousy. The parking lots are all messed up I know. But it's not like I didn't try to fix them. It was just too difficult to do. I apologize for that.

So what do you think? Which one do you like?

[mrsticka]

Here's a more simplistic version of a hypothetical Northroads Mall. The one I made months ago just looked a little too unusual. Hopefully, this will be better.



In case you're wondering what those white rectangles to the south are, they're supposed to be restaurants, hotels, gas stations, office buildings, etc. That sort of thing.

I also edited Bennington Road/McKinley Street to make it look like a 4-lane divided road in the area.

And this is a custom made directory of Northroads:

[Busguy2010]

It's kinda fun to think about that. Knowing what we know about ConAgra and their potential campus on the NW corner of that intersection back in 1980, with that and a mall, that area could have bustling for a while... However, with the way malls went, and ConAgra having left, hard to imagine it wouldn't be a wasteland in 2023. We now just have countryside, but I think that's fine. Better than a shell of a mall and a vacant business park.

[mrsticka]

It's kinda fun to think about that. Knowing what we know about ConAgra and their potential campus on the NW corner of that intersection back in 1980, with that and a mall, that area could have bustling for a while... However, with the way malls went, and ConAgra having left, hard to imagine it wouldn't be a wasteland in 2023. We now just have countryside, but I think that's fine. Better than a shell of a mall and a vacant business park.

It seems like Omaha's growing so rapidly in every direction, except the north.

[Louie]

It's kinda fun to think about that. Knowing what we know about ConAgra and their potential campus on the NW corner of that intersection back in 1980, with that and a mall, that area could have bustling for a while... However, with the way malls went, and ConAgra having left, hard to imagine it wouldn't be a wasteland in 2023. We now just have countryside, but I think that's fine. Better than a shell of a mall and a vacant business park.

It seems like Omaha's growing so rapidly in every direction, except the north.

I think the hills slowed that down and then the infrastructure was so far behind that people wanting to move to the suburbs were already convinced they wanted to go west or south.

[mrsticka]

It can't be THAT hilly.

[Busguy2010]

It really is, comparatively. You look at a topographic map of Omaha and you can see its quite a bit hillier at least between 72nd and HWY 75, if not all the way between 133 and 75. That's why the development is sparse the way it is.

[mrsticka]

Did you at least like my mall concept and the directory for it?

[mrsticka]

Okay, I've finally made custom directories of Westroads. Nothing real big or radical, just a few changes here and there. I've tried to make a directory for Westroads for quite a while now, but it's REALLY hard.

First, here's how Westroads looked around 1995 when Von Maur got added:



If that's not totally accurate, which I'm sure it's not, I apologize. But Younker's was on the north end of the mall until 2003 or so then it moved into the old Montgomery Ward.

Now here's a custom made directory of Westroads where Younker's has a small little wing leading to it instead of being right by the main corridor:



And here's another custom directory of Westroads where the main east-west corridors are further apart from each other and the second floors are mezzanine-like with large gaps down the middle and have little walkways to cross from one section to the other. In other words, like most malls:



Take note that the AMC movie theater is now on both floors. The original AMC theater had 8 theaters, so on the lower level are 8 more. So all-in-all, it's an AMC 16.

And finally, here's the basement. Nothing different here:


Now you're probably wondering why I didn't remove the Montgomery Ward logo in my custom directories, right? I probably should have, but I was too lazy to do so. I know I'm probably getting carried away with all this, but I just wanted to see what Westroads might look like. By the way, if anyone wants to make their own custom directories of any malls, go right ahead.

[empires228]

Anyone remember the name of the tiny mall downtown and what year it opened?

[Cermak]

Anyone remember the name of the tiny mall downtown and what year it opened?

Park Fair mall. Must of opened in 1983 or 84.

[mrsticka]

Here's a hypothetical scenario: It's 1994-95 and plans for a mall in northwest Lincoln are made. Yes, there are houses in that area now. But there weren't back then. It was still technically the boonies. So what if in 1994-95 a mall had gone in on 1st Street and Purple Heart Highway where I-180 ends?

This is what I came up with. Maybe I should've added a 5th anchor?



Full sized image:

[GenX]

Here's a hypothetical scenario: It's 1994-95 and plans for a mall in northwest Lincoln are made. Yes, there are houses in that area now. But there weren't back then. It was still technically the boonies. So what if in 1994-95 a mall had gone in on 1st Street and Purple Heart Highway where I-180 ends?

This is what I came up with. Maybe I should've added a 5th anchor?



Full sized image:

It’s still the boonies

[mrsticka]

Here's a hypothetical scenario: It's 1994-95 and plans for a mall in northwest Lincoln are made. Yes, there are houses in that area now. But there weren't back then. It was still technically the boonies. So what if in 1994-95 a mall had gone in on 1st Street and Purple Heart Highway where I-180 ends?

This is what I came up with. Maybe I should've added a 5th anchor?



Full sized image:

It’s still the boonies

Not anymore.

[GenX]

Here's a hypothetical scenario: It's 1994-95 and plans for a mall in northwest Lincoln are made. Yes, there are houses in that area now. But there weren't back then. It was still technically the boonies. So what if in 1994-95 a mall had gone in on 1st Street and Purple Heart Highway where I-180 ends?

This is what I came up with. Maybe I should've added a 5th anchor?



Full sized image:

It’s still the boonies

Not anymore.

Still the boonies.

[mrsticka]

Here's a hypothetical scenario: It's 1994-95 and plans for a mall in northwest Lincoln are made. Yes, there are houses in that area now. But there weren't back then. It was still technically the boonies. So what if in 1994-95 a mall had gone in on 1st Street and Purple Heart Highway where I-180 ends?

This is what I came up with. Maybe I should've added a 5th anchor?



Full sized image:

It’s still the boonies

Not anymore.

Still the boonies.

It WAS the boonies. But not anymore.

[mrsticka]

Okay, I came back to Earth regarding Gateway Mall with this custom directory. Sort of. I mean I don't have the western portion going diagonally. I did however have all the little shops and inline stores on the west end of the western corridor straightened out and run parallel to the stores on the east end. And I moved Younkers away from Dillard's because main anchor stores are typically apart from each other.

More importantly, there's a lower level! Something I wish Gateway had. In addition to escalators going down to it are stairs and an elevator.

Also, by the southwest entrance on the upper level is the food court with 11 restaurant vendors/bays. I tried to make a hypothetical past and present directory of it.

Gateway Custom Directory:


Food Court Past and Present:


I bet if Gateway had been built into this in the early-to-mid 90's, then I'll bet lots of people would've flocked to it. Especially teens on the weekend.