Omaha Electric Car Discussion

[bbinks]

What's the average fee to charge an EV at one of these stations?

[Mr.Nuke]

What's the average fee to charge an EV at one of these stations?

Sorry for missing this one before. It is complicated. Nebraska doesn't allow non-utilities to bill by the unit so it ends up being a per minute charge, but in this part of the country it ends up being ~$0.33 per kWH (it has gone up over the past year or so). My last 3 supercharges are all around $10 each, filling less than half of the battery. Keep in mind again though, that unless you are road tripping or in an apartment/condo situation without charging, most people that have Teslas are charging at home for the OPPD residential rate which is significantly cheaper.

[TransitOriented]

Yeah, it's WAY cheaper to charge at home.

[djc311]

Yeah, it's WAY cheaper to charge at home.

On topic but off location - are the chargers they installed at the south end of the Super Target on 180th & Center basically the same thing?

Forgive my ignorance as we don't own an electric car; but don't they have to sit there for quite awhile in order to build up a fairly significant charge? If this is the case, what are you suppose to do with yourself while your car charges? Read a book, play on your phone? Also, are they convenient if they install them at the end of a parking lot somewhere?

Regardless of how quickly these work I was shocked to see so many of them get installed in one place.

I'm pro-electric car, but honestly I'm not pro-Tesla. I find it extremely inconvenient to own a car where the nearest service facility is across the river when I live on the west end of town. But, this is simply my own opinion and again I support those who choose to make the investment.

[almighty_tuna]

I'm pro-electric car, but honestly I'm not pro-Tesla. I find it extremely inconvenient to own a car where the nearest service facility is across the river when I live on the west end of town.

You can thank our esteemed lawmakers for that inconvenience.

[Busguy2010]

I'm not really pro electric car, but not necessarily against them. I just have to think philosophically, in 2050 when almost all cars will be electric, will there be enough electricity to go around? I'm very skeptical, because first, we already have prescribed blackouts, so you may not be able to charge your car sometimes, second I don't know if there's really going to be any positive impact on the CO2 levels. The electricity has to come from somewhere and I highly doubt there is enough renewable energy to achieve the goal of reducing CO2 to a point of reducing climate change. I think electric vehicles are mostly a moot point. A nice try I'll call em. So I say just enjoy your life, don't worry about changing the world, as the world as we know it now will pretty much be over by the end of the century. I already think it's gradually heading that way.

[djc311]

I'm not really pro electric car, but not necessarily against them. I just have to think philosophically, in 2050 when almost all cars will be electric, will there be enough electricity to go around? I'm very skeptical, because first, we already have prescribed blackouts, so you may not be able to charge your car sometimes, second I don't know if there's really going to be any positive impact on the CO2 levels. The electricity has to come from somewhere and I highly doubt there is enough renewable energy to achieve the goal of reducing CO2 to a point of reducing climate change. I think electric vehicles are mostly a moot point. A nice try I'll call em. So I say just enjoy your life, don't worry about changing the world, as the world as we know it now will pretty much be over by the end of the century. I already think it's gradually heading that way.

Well that's depressing!

[Louie]

I'm not really pro electric car, but not necessarily against them. I just have to think philosophically, in 2050 when almost all cars will be electric, will there be enough electricity to go around? I'm very skeptical, because first, we already have prescribed blackouts, so you may not be able to charge your car sometimes, second I don't know if there's really going to be any positive impact on the CO2 levels. The electricity has to come from somewhere and I highly doubt there is enough renewable energy to achieve the goal of reducing CO2 to a point of reducing climate change. I think electric vehicles are mostly a moot point. A nice try I'll call em. So I say just enjoy your life, don't worry about changing the world, as the world as we know it now will pretty much be over by the end of the century. I already think it's gradually heading that way.

Well that's depressing!

I wish I could disagree with him, but at the glacial rate that we are moving to make changes to the way we consume energy it's hard to see a different outlook.

[Busguy2010]

I'm not really pro electric car, but not necessarily against them. I just have to think philosophically, in 2050 when almost all cars will be electric, will there be enough electricity to go around? I'm very skeptical, because first, we already have prescribed blackouts, so you may not be able to charge your car sometimes, second I don't know if there's really going to be any positive impact on the CO2 levels. The electricity has to come from somewhere and I highly doubt there is enough renewable energy to achieve the goal of reducing CO2 to a point of reducing climate change. I think electric vehicles are mostly a moot point. A nice try I'll call em. So I say just enjoy your life, don't worry about changing the world, as the world as we know it now will pretty much be over by the end of the century. I already think it's gradually heading that way.

Well that's depressing!

I wish I could disagree with him, but at the glacial rate that we are moving to make changes to the way we consume energy it's hard to see a different outlook.

Oh I know. I don't know what the future will look like, but I bet the way we've lived since 1950ish (progressively advancing technology) won't be it. Maybe we'll go back to 1800s. Steam engines, horses, little electricity. It couldn't be that bad, just completely different.

[nativeomahan]

Electric cars are much more common in other nations versus here in the U.S. I have read where 25% of new passenger vehicles sold in China in 2022 were EVs. The goal in China is to have 90% of all new vehicles sold in that country be EVs by 2030.
An acquaintance of mine is living in China presently, and recently attended a new car expo. He related that a comfortably well equipped new electric car he tried out sells for the equivalent of $17,000 US dollars. If new EVs in this country could approach that price point my guess is they would be selling out everywhere they are sold.
And China apparently has no worries about running low on enough electricity to fuel those tens of millions of EVs in the years to come.

[TransitOriented]

I just have to think philosophically, in 2050 when almost all cars will be electric, will there be enough electricity to go around?

Yes, they don't use that much electricity.

[Busguy2010]

I just have to think philosophically, in 2050 when almost all cars will be electric, will there be enough electricity to go around?

Yes, they don't use that much electricity.

Well, I'm talking if everybody is charging at home. It might be fine now with like <10% of people driving electric cars. But what happens if everybody is charging? As I said, we've already had prescribed blackouts, so there's obviously a breaking point. What is that point, I don't know. But I'm genuinely concerned they will put stress on the grid to a point you have to think will I go home to a warm house in the winter?. Will my pipes burst? Will my house be scorching hot in summer, or will all my frozen foods go bad if the power goes out for an extended time?

I'm really not versed on EV's, so I'm open to any informative commentary. I was probably the first person I'm my neighborhood to get a battery powered mower. One 80v battery takes probably an hour or a bit more to charge from zero. It gets the job done for sure, but it's a mower. I have a hard time seeing how it translates to a car? Any conversation and input is appreciated.

[Ben]

Yeah, it's WAY cheaper to charge at home.

On topic but off location - are the chargers they installed at the south end of the Super Target on 180th & Center basically the same thing?

Forgive my ignorance as we don't own an electric car; but don't they have to sit there for quite awhile in order to build up a fairly significant charge? If this is the case, what are you suppose to do with yourself while your car charges? Read a book, play on your phone? Also, are they convenient if they install them at the end of a parking lot somewhere?

I think the stores lease out the parking lot space to Telsa for this very reason - the intent is for the user to shop at the store while their car is charging.

And Yes, while it does take a long time for a car to go from 0-100% charge, the most applicable use case for a public charger is 20-80%, which at most higher voltage stations takes 30min-1hr, I believe.

[TransitOriented]

I just have to think philosophically, in 2050 when almost all cars will be electric, will there be enough electricity to go around?

Yes, they don't use that much electricity.

I'm really not versed on EV's, so I'm open to any informative commentary. I was probably the first person I'm my neighborhood to get a battery powered mower. One 80v battery takes probably an hour or a bit more to charge from zero. It gets the job done for sure, but it's a mower. I have a hard time seeing how it translates to a car? Any conversation and input is appreciated.

Super cliffs: Peak demand versus non-peak. OPPD will likely charge more during peak and encourage people to dry their clothes, do their dishes and charge their devices during non-peak.

[Athomsfere]

I'm not really pro electric car, but not necessarily against them. I just have to think philosophically, in 2050 when almost all cars will be electric, will there be enough electricity to go around? I'm very skeptical, because first, we already have prescribed blackouts, so you may not be able to charge your car sometimes, second I don't know if there's really going to be any positive impact on the CO2 levels. The electricity has to come from somewhere and I highly doubt there is enough renewable energy to achieve the goal of reducing CO2 to a point of reducing climate change. I think electric vehicles are mostly a moot point. A nice try I'll call em. So I say just enjoy your life, don't worry about changing the world, as the world as we know it now will pretty much be over by the end of the century. I already think it's gradually heading that way.

I'm anti-electric car. At least as a solution to most things. Hydrogen cells are much more appealing for the uses of vehicles I'm more interested in: Long haul without rail.

But, with my bias out of the way, there are a lot of ideas on the horizon that offset many of those concerns.

Fusion might truly be on the 20 year timeline for the first time in history. Mechanical batteries and things like green hydrogen as chemical batteries.

We really just need to get rid of cars as much as possible. Seas of highway and parking are planet killers too.

[jsheets]

And Yes, while it does take a long time for a car to go from 0-100% charge, the most applicable use case for a public charger is 20-80%, which at most higher voltage stations takes 30min-1hr, I believe.

Exactly, yeah! Usually more like 15-20 mins for a DC fast/super charger like the Tesla one's. Usually around $10-15. There's also the Level 2 chargers that are the multiple hour ones that people often think about, but those are basically like the speed of charging in your garage at home. Not for road trips but for daily driving. Though you'll see them at Aksarben and random other places.

The one area Level 2's make a ton of sense I think is at Hotels. Last trip to KC the hotel had a free Level 2 charger. Plugged it in overnight and basically had a free trip home. You're about to see a ton more hotels with chargers soon, at least at Hilton brand: https://stories.hilton.com/releases/hil ... 000-hotels

[Louie]

I'm not really pro electric car, but not necessarily against them. I just have to think philosophically, in 2050 when almost all cars will be electric, will there be enough electricity to go around? I'm very skeptical, because first, we already have prescribed blackouts, so you may not be able to charge your car sometimes, second I don't know if there's really going to be any positive impact on the CO2 levels. The electricity has to come from somewhere and I highly doubt there is enough renewable energy to achieve the goal of reducing CO2 to a point of reducing climate change. I think electric vehicles are mostly a moot point. A nice try I'll call em. So I say just enjoy your life, don't worry about changing the world, as the world as we know it now will pretty much be over by the end of the century. I already think it's gradually heading that way.

I'm anti-electric car. At least as a solution to most things. Hydrogen cells are much more appealing for the uses of vehicles I'm more interested in: Long haul without rail.

But, with my bias out of the way, there are a lot of ideas on the horizon that offset many of those concerns.

Fusion might truly be on the 20 year timeline for the first time in history. Mechanical batteries and things like green hydrogen as chemical batteries.

We really just need to get rid of cars as much as possible. Seas of highway and parking are planet killers too.

Right, electric cars don't solve all the problems that cars cause. Along with the massive freeways and seas of parking they also increase infrastructure costs via road wear as they are typically much heavier vehicles that gas or even diesel.

[Renovator2559]

I'm not really pro electric car, but not necessarily against them. I just have to think philosophically, in 2050 when almost all cars will be electric, will there be enough electricity to go around? I'm very skeptical, because first, we already have prescribed blackouts, so you may not be able to charge your car sometimes, second I don't know if there's really going to be any positive impact on the CO2 levels. The electricity has to come from somewhere and I highly doubt there is enough renewable energy to achieve the goal of reducing CO2 to a point of reducing climate change. I think electric vehicles are mostly a moot point. A nice try I'll call em. So I say just enjoy your life, don't worry about changing the world, as the world as we know it now will pretty much be over by the end of the century. I already think it's gradually heading that way.

I'm anti-electric car. At least as a solution to most things. Hydrogen cells are much more appealing for the uses of vehicles I'm more interested in: Long haul without rail.

But, with my bias out of the way, there are a lot of ideas on the horizon that offset many of those concerns.

Fusion might truly be on the 20 year timeline for the first time in history. Mechanical batteries and things like green hydrogen as chemical batteries.

We really just need to get rid of cars as much as possible. Seas of highway and parking are planet killers too.

Right, electric cars don't solve all the problems that cars cause. Along with the massive freeways and seas of parking they also increase infrastructure costs via road wear as they are typically much heavier vehicles that gas or even diesel.

Valid points, which I agree, I am glad people raised these points about electric cars. The only point I disagree is the doom and gloom, the public consciousness is shifting in which people are realizing what works and what doesn't. Innovation is on the horizon.

For sure Hydrogen (most abundent element in the universe) fuel cell is the way to go, once we figure out how to extract and store effectively (not to far in the future). Hydrogen could be used in all forms of terrestrial transportation and possibly air too. Fusion technology is promising too.

That's why I drive on long distances to WO and out of the metro and generally bike, walk, take the bus; when in the urban core. Obviously this doesn't work for everyone.

A good solution is to incorporate all modes of transportation when designing neighborhoods, so that people can adapt their travel choices according to what is most practical and not only being able to clog the streets.

[GreenOZ]

I had a Chevy Bolt a few years ago and got rid of that [expletitive] thing. I always had range anxiety and many times I had to drive without AC or heating or else the battery would drain much faster. The battery juice during winter was terrible and was stranded 2 times. I had to call a person to bring their diesel generator to charge just enough for me to drive home. No more electric for me.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

I had a Chevy Bolt a few years ago and got rid of that [expletitive] thing. I always had range anxiety and many times I had to drive without AC or heating or else the battery would drain much faster. The battery juice during winter was terrible and was stranded 2 times. I had to call a person to bring their diesel generator to charge just enough for me to drive home. No more electric for me.

What do you have now?

[GreenOZ]

I had a Chevy Bolt a few years ago and got rid of that [expletitive] thing. I always had range anxiety and many times I had to drive without AC or heating or else the battery would drain much faster. The battery juice during winter was terrible and was stranded 2 times. I had to call a person to bring their diesel generator to charge just enough for me to drive home. No more electric for me.

What do you have now?

A Prius, reliable and I can go a long time from going to a gas station! No range anxiety!

[Garrett]

Sidebar, but even electric cars powered by sustainable resources don't fully solve the ways that cars contribute to pollution. Tires and brakes let off a substantial amount of pollution all on their own.

https://theweek.com/feature/briefing/10 ... ate-change

[Louie]

Sidebar, but even electric cars powered by sustainable resources don't fully solve the ways that cars contribute to pollution. Tires and brakes let off a substantial amount of pollution all on their own.

https://theweek.com/feature/briefing/10 ... ate-change

The only real, real solution is public transportation.

[TransitOriented]

I had a Chevy Bolt a few years ago and got rid of that [expletitive] thing. I always had range anxiety and many times I had to drive without AC or heating or else the battery would drain much faster. The battery juice during winter was terrible and was stranded 2 times. I had to call a person to bring their diesel generator to charge just enough for me to drive home. No more electric for me.

Older tech, and that vehicle is no longer produced*.

[Brad]

Sidebar, but even electric cars powered by sustainable resources don't fully solve the ways that cars contribute to pollution. Tires and brakes let off a substantial amount of pollution all on their own.

https://theweek.com/feature/briefing/10 ... ate-change

The only real, real solution is public transportation.

That's kind of an unfair blanket statement. It sucks cars have become so polarized thanks to modern politics. Most public transit still has tries, and all wheeled vehicles (Planes, Trains, Buses, and Cars) have brakes (And Yes, I know, some use regenerative braking for part of their brakes). We can't act like everyone hopping on a bus or train is the perfect solution. Will it help in the urban environment, yes. Will it work in rural agricultural areas, absolutely not. We need to stop acting like cars and trucks are the only problem and if they all go away we would live in this perfect world with blue oceans, clean air, and giant glaciers all over the mountaintops. We need to think bigger and realize it will take thousands and thousands of small solutions that all added together can make a big difference. If we sit around and wait for the perfect solution on anything in life, we will never get anywhere. Is solar power perfect? No. Does it help offset peak demand on a hot summer day, yes. How about focusing on the needless |expletive| we all throw away? Why does a new appliance only last 7 years when the fridge in Grandma's basement has been keeping that beer cold for 40 years now. We do we need wireless keyboards which burn through AA batteries for desktop computers, when the keyboard never leads the desk. Why did LED Lightbulbs go from lasting "Forever" to barely making it 3 years now. Why did old buildings last for 100+ years and new buildings only last 20. Why do some fast food restaurants wrap your burger in paper, put it inside a box, and then put the box in a sack? Why does Chick Fil A give you a drink carrier for dine in orders and when you try to give it back, they throw it in the trash? There are so many ways we could reduce energy consumption and pollution without focusing only on cars.

[Athomsfere]

The only real, real solution is public transportation.

That's kind of an unfair blanket statement. It sucks cars have become so polarized thanks to modern politics. Most public transit still has tries, and all wheeled vehicles (Planes, Trains, Buses, and Cars) have brakes (And Yes, I know, some use regenerative braking for part of their brakes). We can't act like everyone hopping on a bus or train is the perfect solution. Will it help in the urban environment, yes. Will it work in rural agricultural areas, absolutely not.

If I didn't know you better, I'd say that was a bad faith argument.

As Louie, and anyone coming from that position generally knows there will be exceptions. Rural areas, people with certain disabilities, personal choice.

But, mass transit is the only real choice for making a huge impact. 200 people on a train in a city, or across states takes somewhere between 166 and 177 cars off the road for a trip. Eliminates that much parking, etc..

On the pessimistic number, assuming every person in Omaha goes somewhere once a day, if even just like 1/3 of those were on transit that's like ~176k trips not using the single least efficient and planet destroying method of transit.

Louie, I'm 99% sure is talking about that. Not willy nilly saying "no one can ever drive anywhere because transit".

[Louie]

The only real, real solution is public transportation.

That's kind of an unfair blanket statement. It sucks cars have become so polarized thanks to modern politics. Most public transit still has tries, and all wheeled vehicles (Planes, Trains, Buses, and Cars) have brakes (And Yes, I know, some use regenerative braking for part of their brakes). We can't act like everyone hopping on a bus or train is the perfect solution. Will it help in the urban environment, yes. Will it work in rural agricultural areas, absolutely not.

If I didn't know you better, I'd say that was a bad faith argument.

As Louie, and anyone coming from that position generally knows there will be exceptions. Rural areas, people with certain disabilities, personal choice.

But, mass transit is the only real choice for making a huge impact. 200 people on a train in a city, or across states takes somewhere between 166 and 177 cars off the road for a trip. Eliminates that much parking, etc..

On the pessimistic number, assuming every person in Omaha goes somewhere once a day, if even just like 1/3 of those were on transit that's like ~176k trips not using the single least efficient and planet destroying method of transit.

Louie, I'm 99% sure is talking about that. Not willy nilly saying "no one can ever drive anywhere because transit".

Correct, this applies to urban environs, not rural ones. There will always be a need for personal vehicles outside of the city. But that's a truly small percentage of all traffic. Most personal vehicle traffic miles take place in settings that mass transit could help with.

[ricko]

Great discussion. Regardless of the direction we’re headed, alternative energy wise, fossil fuels are not the future, and that’s a good thing. To respond to some of the comments above regarding the glitches during the transition to green technologies, there will always be fits and starts. Where I live, ev’s have really taken off just in the last few years; they’re everywhere. I was asking a neighbor (Tesla owner) how much he pays for a charge——$12 average, which is about 3 times less than I pay for a fill up, considering the differences in miles driven per fill-up. They just need to make ev’s affordable and reliable for the average driver. Long term solutions involve the way we build our neighborhoods/communities to cut down on road traffic, although I don’t think I have to convince anyone here on that issue. In the short term, simple things like being aware of how we can cut down on energy/fuel use by driving fuel efficient vehicles and buying energy saving appliances goes a long way toward reducing our bills. This has also helped utility companies reduce the need to increase production capacities, although that may be offset by increased use of ev’s.

[halgy]

I bought a Bolt EUV last January and love it. I wish I could have waited another year or two in order to get better battery tech, but that decision was made for me by the Jeep that rear-ended my old Fusion and totaled it.

Since I can charge at work, it costs me nothing to drive day-to-day unless I'm driving further than Lincoln (which I very rarely do). Even if I did charge at home, it would be about $7 a week. If I drove to KC or further on a regular basis, the Bolt wouldn't be ideal. But for 99% of my current needs, it is great.

I agree that mass and active transit are much better, but due to where I work I'm stuck car commuting for the foreseeable future. Still, EVs can be powered by clean power, even if the grid isn't there yet (though wind is more economical than fossil fuels, so it is only a matter of time). Even barring that, having one big power plant is more efficient and cleaner than thousands of ICEs, and moving the pollution generation from inside the cities to a centralized power plant helps with urban air quality.

EVs definitely aren't a silver bullet, but they're part of a solution. We can only see how it pans out. Until then, I like driving my little electric car. All else aside, having lots of instant torque and acceleration makes it a lot of fun.

[Stan]

I bought a Bolt EUV last January and love it. I wish I could have waited another year or two in order to get better battery tech, but that decision was made for me by the Jeep that rear-ended my old Fusion and totaled it.

Since I can charge at work, it costs me nothing to drive day-to-day unless I'm driving further than Lincoln (which I very rarely do). Even if I did charge at home, it would be about $7 a week. If I drove to KC or further on a regular basis, the Bolt wouldn't be ideal. But for 99% of my current needs, it is great.

I agree that mass and active transit are much better, but due to where I work I'm stuck car commuting for the foreseeable future. Still, EVs can be powered by clean power, even if the grid isn't there yet (though wind is more economical than fossil fuels, so it is only a matter of time). Even barring that, having one big power plant is more efficient and cleaner than thousands of ICEs, and moving the pollution generation from inside the cities to a centralized power plant helps with urban air quality.

EVs definitely aren't a silver bullet, but they're part of a solution. We can only see how it pans out. Until then, I like driving my little electric car. All else aside, having lots of instant torque and acceleration makes it a lot of fun.

I can't wait until EVs are more affordable and the used market expands with reliable choices. I'd love to have an EV, but I don't really spend into the 30k range for cars, not to mention 40k+ for where most of the good ones are found. I grew up around ICE cars with two generations of mechanics so I have an absolute love for the classics and looked forward to the big auto shows each year as they put out their new models and concepts. An EV just makes sense for future advancement because cars have kind of plateaued like cell phones. The electrical grid will continue to advance and we'll see more level 3 chargers become available as more EVs are released. The source of electricity has been changing much faster recently too. Working at Kiewit, I saw their energy business transition to much more renewables in the past 10 years because that's where the money(except wind) is.

[djc311]

Two things from my perspective - my brother in law owns the hybrid electric-ish Jeep Wrangler. Probably cost him $60k plus. He's had it about 2 years and honest to "whoever your faith is in" it's been in the dealership shop more than he's been able to drive it. Something to do with having two different oil coolers or something along those lines. Basically, it doesn't work in the cold. To me, that's a pointless vehicle, especially in Nebraska. I can confirm out of 24 months' ownership he's had access to drive it for about 6 months. They've had it so long in fact that the dealer (or maybe Jeep/Stelantis) made 5-6 of the monthly payments as a courtesy. Unless you're driving a Bugatti they should be able to provide better service and support for an American-ish vehicle in America. Don't build and sell the car if you can't fix the damn thing in a reasonable amount of time. And I don't think anyone can argue (pro electric or pro gas) that having a car for 24 months but only actually "having" it for 25% of that timeframe is reasonable.

Now, does that mean all electric or semi-electric vehicles are subject to the same problems? No. And, I'm well aware of the fact that gas-powered vehicles have recalls, breakdowns, etc. But the adaptation to electric has not been smooth for most... far from it, in fact. Honestly, I have no desire to own an electric vehicle in the near future. If I did get one, it would probably be the Mach E from Ford or some other manufacturer that at least has a decent network of dealers and service centers to take care of them.

Tesla, regardless of the reason (ie, govt, etc) cannot support their cars on a large scale. If someone can argue otherwise while living in the Omaha metro I would appreciate an explanation. My understanding is they have somewhere in Council Bluffs and maybe they still have the mobile service option. Either way, I wouldn't buy one just for that reason alone. It's like buying a Lamborghini as a daily driver (OK, perhaps that's a bit extreme), but honestly where are you taking one of those in Omaha if it needs service?

I've also heard that Tesla's battery replacement is about 1/2 the cost of the car new, maybe even more. How often should those require replacement??? Maybe not even once in a 10 year window, but if that's the cycle if you buy one used for $20k (probably on the low side) and spend $20k on batteries isn't that counterproductive? And are you really benefitting from doing so?

If a car manufacturer could offer a new electric vehicle that was street legal for $10k that you could use for short commutes I imagine the adaptation would be significantly higher. My personal opinion is I wouldn't spend $60k + on a electric vehicle (and the sad thing is a $60k electric vehicle is probably not a great vehicle for the price).

[Athomsfere]

If a car manufacturer could offer a new electric vehicle that was street legal for $10k that you could use for short commutes I imagine the adaptation would be significantly higher.

eBikes!

Another gripe that I have with electric is their sheer weight. That jeep whatever-ma-junker weights how much? And is going through tires faster, and destroying the roads something like 2.24 times faster: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/bevs ... gas%20cars.

People pretending they care about protecting anything but won't actually sacrifice one ounce of their ego to get something practical...

[ricko]

Two things from my perspective - my brother in law owns the hybrid electric-ish Jeep Wrangler. Probably cost him $60k plus. He's had it about 2 years and honest to "whoever your faith is in" it's been in the dealership shop more than he's been able to drive it. Something to do with having two different oil coolers or something along those lines. Basically, it doesn't work in the cold. To me, that's a pointless vehicle, especially in Nebraska. I can confirm out of 24 months' ownership he's had access to drive it for about 6 months. They've had it so long in fact that the dealer (or maybe Jeep/Stelantis) made 5-6 of the monthly payments as a courtesy. Unless you're driving a Bugatti they should be able to provide better service and support for an American-ish vehicle in America. Don't build and sell the car if you can't fix the damn thing in a reasonable amount of time. And I don't think anyone can argue (pro electric or pro gas) that having a car for 24 months but only actually "having" it for 25% of that timeframe is reasonable.

Now, does that mean all electric or semi-electric vehicles are subject to the same problems? No. And, I'm well aware of the fact that gas-powered vehicles have recalls, breakdowns, etc. But the adaptation to electric has not been smooth for most... far from it, in fact. Honestly, I have no desire to own an electric vehicle in the near future. If I did get one, it would probably be the Mach E from Ford or some other manufacturer that at least has a decent network of dealers and service centers to take care of them.

Tesla, regardless of the reason (ie, govt, etc) cannot support their cars on a large scale. If someone can argue otherwise while living in the Omaha metro I would appreciate an explanation. My understanding is they have somewhere in Council Bluffs and maybe they still have the mobile service option. Either way, I wouldn't buy one just for that reason alone. It's like buying a Lamborghini as a daily driver (OK, perhaps that's a bit extreme), but honestly where are you taking one of those in Omaha if it needs service?

I've also heard that Tesla's battery replacement is about 1/2 the cost of the car new, maybe even more. How often should those require replacement??? Maybe not even once in a 10 year window, but if that's the cycle if you buy one used for $20k (probably on the low side) and spend $20k on batteries isn't that counterproductive? And are you really benefitting from doing so?

If a car manufacturer could offer a new electric vehicle that was street legal for $10k that you could use for short commutes I imagine the adaptation would be significantly higher. My personal opinion is I wouldn't spend $60k + on a electric vehicle (and the sad thing is a $60k electric vehicle is probably not a great vehicle for the price).

Sorry to hear about your brother in law’s experience. Funny you should mention the Jeep Wrangler. I’m a big fan of Consumer Reports magazine. Their September Car/Truck/SUV issue gave the Wrangler one of its lowest ratings. I mean, shockingly low. I’ve known this about Jeeps in general for years now, and tried (unsuccessfully) to warn a friend who purchased one last year. Didn’t do any good. I guess the lure of looking like a badass on the road trumped everything else. I hope he has a good mechanic.

[TransitOriented]

I've also heard that Tesla's battery replacement is about 1/2 the cost of the car new, maybe even more. How often should those require replacement???

Never, you don't replace them.

[Louie]

I've also heard that Tesla's battery replacement is about 1/2 the cost of the car new, maybe even more. How often should those require replacement???

Never, you don't replace them.

Never, as in you should just buy a new car?

[TransitOriented]

I've also heard that Tesla's battery replacement is about 1/2 the cost of the car new, maybe even more. How often should those require replacement???

Never, you don't replace them.

Never, as in you should just buy a new car?

Never as in the battery should never need to be replaced. They hold a charge and last for hundreds of thousands of miles.

https://electrek.co/2023/04/25/tesla-up ... gradation/
https://electrek.co/2023/08/29/tesla-ba ... ing-study/
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-battery ... illion-km/

If you're a person that drives a car north of 300k miles, then it might be something you should consider.

[halgy]

Two things from my perspective - my brother in law owns the hybrid electric-ish Jeep Wrangler. Probably cost him $60k plus. He's had it about 2 years and honest to "whoever your faith is in" it's been in the dealership shop more than he's been able to drive it. Something to do with having two different oil coolers or something along those lines. Basically, it doesn't work in the cold. To me, that's a pointless vehicle, especially in Nebraska.

...

Sorry to hear about your brother in law’s experience. Funny you should mention the Jeep Wrangler. I’m a big fan of Consumer Reports magazine. Their September Car/Truck/SUV issue gave the Wrangler one of its lowest ratings. I mean, shockingly low. I’ve known this about Jeeps in general for years now, and tried (unsuccessfully) to warn a friend who purchased one last year. Didn’t do any good. I guess the lure of looking like a badass on the road trumped everything else. I hope he has a good mechanic.

Yeah, I think this is largely a Jeep problem, not a hybrid problem. Anecdotally, mother had a couple of different Jeeps (pure ICE, no hybrid), and both were in the shop several times. For one of them, the computer went bad so it wouldn't start, and the dealership's response was basically "yep, sometimes Jeeps be like that". She ended up trading both of them off...for new Jeeps. I don't understand why they're so popular.

That said, one reason I went with a full EV instead of a hybrid was to eliminate the complexity of having an ICE. Yes the battery will degrade over time, but overall there are far fewer things to go wrong. Other than replacing tires and normal brake system stuff, there's basically no scheduled maintenance for my Bolt.

[Louie]

I've also heard that Tesla's battery replacement is about 1/2 the cost of the car new, maybe even more. How often should those require replacement???

Never, you don't replace them.

Never, as in you should just buy a new car?

Never as in the battery should never need to be replaced. They hold a charge and last for hundreds of thousands of miles.

https://electrek.co/2023/04/25/tesla-up ... gradation/
https://electrek.co/2023/08/29/tesla-ba ... ing-study/
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-battery ... illion-km/

If you're a person that drives a car north of 300k miles, then it might be something you should consider.

Most of that is based on mileage used, not the time passing. I'm curious how much the battery degrades with just time. Ideally, someone could buy an EV and have it for a much longer time if they don't drive it often. Case in point, I drive about 6-8k a year at max. So I should theoretically be able to ride an EV out for decades. In my perfect world my next car will be my last, spending money on cars is such a bad investment, so I'm trying to weigh options.

[Doctor Fate]

Two things from my perspective - my brother in law owns the hybrid electric-ish Jeep Wrangler. Probably cost him $60k plus. He's had it about 2 years and honest to "whoever your faith is in" it's been in the dealership shop more than he's been able to drive it. Something to do with having two different oil coolers or something along those lines. Basically, it doesn't work in the cold. To me, that's a pointless vehicle, especially in Nebraska.

...

Sorry to hear about your brother in law’s experience. Funny you should mention the Jeep Wrangler. I’m a big fan of Consumer Reports magazine. Their September Car/Truck/SUV issue gave the Wrangler one of its lowest ratings. I mean, shockingly low. I’ve known this about Jeeps in general for years now, and tried (unsuccessfully) to warn a friend who purchased one last year. Didn’t do any good. I guess the lure of looking like a badass on the road trumped everything else. I hope he has a good mechanic.

Yeah, I think this is largely a Jeep problem, not a hybrid problem. Anecdotally, mother had a couple of different Jeeps (pure ICE, no hybrid), and both were in the shop several times. For one of them, the computer went bad so it wouldn't start, and the dealership's response was basically "yep, sometimes Jeeps be like that". She ended up trading both of them off...for new Jeeps. I don't understand why they're so popular.

That said, one reason I went with a full EV instead of a hybrid was to eliminate the complexity of having an ICE. Yes the battery will degrade over time, but overall there are far fewer things to go wrong. Other than replacing tires and normal brake system stuff, there's basically no scheduled maintenance for my Bolt.

I have a friend who had a Jeep Trackhawk, the performance variant of the Grand Cherokee. His McLaren 570s was more reliable and so was his wife's G-Wagen. Unfortunately for them, that's 3 cars that get less than 15 mpg and were driving like 2,000 miles a month between the 3, so they were spending well over a grand in gas a month. They switched to a Tesla Model X Plaid and an Audi e-Tron, which they've had for a year now, and have had 0 issues. Their electric bill is also only about $150 more a month and the maintenance is significantly lower.

[almighty_tuna]

Yeah, I think this is largely a Jeep problem, not a hybrid problem. Anecdotally, mother had a couple of different Jeeps (pure ICE, no hybrid), and both were in the shop several times. For one of them, the computer went bad so it wouldn't start, and the dealership's response was basically "yep, sometimes Jeeps be like that". She ended up trading both of them off...for new Jeeps. I don't understand why they're so popular.

Not to veer too far off topic, but I love my 2014 Jeep. The only thing we've had to take it to the shop for is clutch replacement. That said, I don't have many options on it - it's a manual transmission, manual windows, manual locks, no rear wiper, no factory touchscreen radio, manual "freedom tops" instead of electric rollback roof, etc. Plus, we're pretty handy and do basic maintenance like brakes/rotor replacement, shock replacement and deeper projects like front axles, linkage, timing belts, etc on our cars, so that does help.