DTO: DETAINED DT FOR BEING A POSSIBLE TERRORIST. SERIUOSLY!

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 6:28 pm

I was home the other day visiting my brother for his birtheday and since I haven't been home in awhile I wanted to go DT and get some pictures. I went into OPPD to pay a bill and with my camera in hand walked east toward the court house taking pictures. I had taken aobut 20 pictures of differant building by then and then walked across the street to the south side of the court house. As I was getting ready to take another picture I heard someone yelling at me. I turned around and there was a Douglas County Sherrif standing there. He asked me what I was doing taking pictures of the Courthouse. I actually hadn't taken any of the court house but did have pictures of other buildings around it.

He asked me for I.D. which I don't carry with me because I don't drive. After he found out I had no ID he confiscated my camera and began looking at the pictures I had taken. He got on his radio and said he had " a situation outside". He began questioning me further about why I was so interested in taking pictures of buildings. I told him I was here from out of town and wanted to get some pictures while I was here. Apparently it's a crime (if you have brown skin) to take lots of pictures of tall buildings and a courthouse. Pretty soon 3 other uniformed officers and 2 street clothed ones were circling around me asking me questions about the pictures and why I was in town and when I would be leaving town. I asked them if this was some sort of terrorsit thing and they said it was. They began passing my camera around and one guy said that I had taken a pretty close picture of the Mayor's office. Ofter that as more officers were gathering around more officers who were getting off work came out to "help".

Up until Monday I did have a warrant out for me but thank God I got it taken care of. They took down my Omaha address, my Nebraska City address, my work address, and my picture and said they were entering it into some national terrorist database and were going to put my picture on file with the city of Omaha and Douglas County as being a suspicious person. The whole thing took about half an hour and all for taking pictures of buildings DT.

DMRyan, I might be making that jump from red stater to blue quicker than you think.

omahaopinions.com · Post by **omahaopinions.com** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:07 pm

Did they let you keep any of your pictures?

TechnicalDisaster · Post by **TechnicalDisaster** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:11 pm

After hearing your story I am totally outraged, but not surprised. This kind of thing has been going on all over the country. Just go over to the Dpreview.com forums and hear LOTS of similar stories. This is the first time I have heard of it in Omaha. It was completely unlawfull of the officers to confiscate your camera and you should lodge a complaint. It is also not "suspicious" to take pictures of public buildings.

Finn · Post by **Finn** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:25 pm

Wow, that is amazing. Hey, if the officers need any help, tell them to visit eomaha.com and we can provide them with some of your "suspicious" posts!

almighty_tuna · Post by **almighty_tuna** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:47 pm

When I was in DC about 1.5yrs ago I had a few hours to be a tourist and shoot some video & stills. I was standing across the "driveway" from the fountain in front of the capitol building w/a large dv cam and tripod taking some footage. A capitol guard came up and politely told me no tripods allowed. I asked him where I could film from and he pointed across the street, maybe 20yds away. Compare to the response in DC to Omaha, cripes, I'd think that DC would be more photo-friend about it. With the exception perhaps that the DC/Capitol authorities are used to dealing with these types of situations and are polite and professional.

I agree with Bradley, a complaint is definitely in order here. Make a stink about it. The sad part is that publicly any statement would be to the tune of "sorry for any inconvenience", but privately those officers would likely be lauded for being "alert".

My other major hobby, besides photography, is ham radio. I've gotten several wary glances during some of my activities. Once had an officer check what I was doing while I was working a satellite and had a couple odd antennas pointed about. Surprisingly though, not too much trouble from it. Perhaps for a kick I should head downtown with all my antennas on my car and start taking pictures with my camera. White boy on a photo-jihad.

TechnicalDisaster · Post by **TechnicalDisaster** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:09 pm

I meant to post this earlier, but I couldn't find the link. Here is the Photographers bill of rights. It was published last July. I keep a copy of it with all of my photo gear.
http://www.filemagazine.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

Anyone who takes pictures in public places should read and understand it, and keep a copy of it with them at all times.

BTW, the police violated the following laws:
1. They have to arrest you for committing a crime before they can confiscate your film.
2. To confiscate your film without arresting you, they HAVE to have a court order.
3. You are under no obligation to explain why you are taking pictures.
4. I feel they used undue duress to get you to comply to laws that don't exist. Follow up with a lawyer--you may be entilted to compensation.

The officers acted completely in-appropriately in your situation. I would have NEVER handed my camera to them, but I know my rights, and carry them with me at all times.

If you remember the names of the officers, I have some contacts over at Channel 7 news that will probably want to hear your story, with your permission of course.

projectman · Post by **projectman** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:48 pm

Ok How fast were you driving your Buick?

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:20 pm

I can't drive, remember?

I was walking by. I have thought about taking some sort of legal action but I don't know which would be the best way to go about it or if anything would even come of it. When I got home and read the paper on the front of the Midlands sectoin there was an article about security being stepped up at the court house.

omahahawk · Post by **omahahawk** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:21 pm

Dude, were you starting to feel like it could turn into a Rodney King moment?

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:25 pm

Yeah because I would have whooped some |expletive|.

No it wasn't like that. I was scared because I started to remember how loose the Partiot Act was when it came to things like this. I had never heard of it happening before but I already have had run ins with the law with driving stuff and I didn't know if that would go against me at all.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:31 pm

Maybe I could stop walking around like this too.

almighty_tuna · Post by **almighty_tuna** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:33 pm

I think your cross necklace may be a giveaway there, sheik. ;)

omahahawk · Post by **omahahawk** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:42 pm

DTO Luv wrote:Maybe I could stop walking around like this too.

Luv Fiction

guy4omaha · Post by **guy4omaha** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:58 pm

I shouldn't even enter into this... but I can't help myself. I am sorry, DTO, that you were hassled. I don't deny that if I were in your shoes this would have been traumatic for me.

However, (here it goes):

I am glad that our police officers decided to check you out. Could they or should they have handled any of the details differently. But to the police who have been asked to be extra vigilant, your picture taking has to be regarded as potential casing until found out to be different.

I would have to think that if you had had proper ID on you this would have helped some.

In the past, some of the real terrorists walked around doing what you were doing, but with different motives of course. Being asked what we are doing is a small price, in my book, to pay for the deterrent and apprehension effect of the real terrorists.

I don't view the officers and people violating my rights. Rather I see them and all of us cooperating with them as working together to protect our rights from being blown up, dismembered, etc.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:21 am

I understand why it happened but I don't think that I look enough like a Muslim (that's who the terrorists are) to warrant what happened to me. Nto to start a racial think but I don't think this would have happened to Jeff or someone else taking pictures. Even when I gave them the info they asked to verify who I was they didn't follow up on it. My mom was down the street at work and they said they would call her to comfirm that what I was telling them was true.

But honestly though who the heck is going to try and blow up someplace in Omaha? I could understand around Offut, but there are much more cities in line ahead of us on a terrosists list.

icejammer · Post by **icejammer** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:35 am

DTO Luv wrote:But honestly though who the heck is going to try and blow up someplace in Omaha?

Uhhh, supposedly Timothy McVeigh was casing out the federal building in Omaha before deciding on Oklahoma City. Don't consider it beyond the realm of possibility.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:47 am

I remember that, but what international terrorist would do it.

omahahawk · Post by **omahahawk** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:58 am

Back when I was still working at the airlines there was this guy we worked with that was given the 3rd degree by the airport police for taking photos of airplanes from the perimeter access road. He was pretty much a WASP and this was several years before 911.

GoWest · Post by **GoWest** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:02 am

DTO Luv wrote: I don't think that I look enough like a Muslim (that's who the terrorists are)

I don't rember McVeigh being a Muslim. Terrorists come in all races and religions.

Post by **Brad** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:08 am

Where did you get a camera that looks like a gun?

haha

guy4omaha · Post by **guy4omaha** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:10 am

DTO Luv wrote:

But honestly though who the heck is going to try and blow up someplace in Omaha? I could understand around Offut, but there are much more cities in line ahead of us on a terrosists list.

My guess is that the terrorists will strike us wherever they can find a weakness. Plus, if they could strike here in the middle of America, then they could prove that nowhere is safe.

As far as looking Muslim, the terrorists reportedly have plain old WASP types in their sights for recruiting members with some White Anglo Saxon Protestant types already in their ranks.

Again, though, I don't mean to diminish what you went through. I have been mistakenly identified as Iranian, Jewish and Mexican over the years so that bigots could target me. But, I think that if anyone of any race had been taking pictures around the courthouse, they would have been treated similarly to you. At least I hope you weren't singled out.

The courthouse is particularly sensitive. They have camera surveillance all around the inside and the outside of the building and nearby. Also, back to your incident, did this happen to you after the courthouse incident in Atlanta?

Regarding this whole issue of the Patriot Act, infringement of rights, etc., we are a nation at war. If they strike us again, it will have terrible consequences on our economy. The terrorists probably view that as the best way to bring us down. It is a delicate balance we are trying to maintain.

omahahawk · Post by **omahahawk** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:28 am

That is true about the security being vigalent (sp) down there. I was hasled by a security guy there just for being the only person in the area and I'm a WASP myself. Guess I just looked kind of suspicious walking around by myself in the middle of the courtyard. I was actually wearing a suit and tie as well getting ready to go to a job interview. I was just killing some time because I got there way early and that was enough to set them off.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:33 am

Yeah Guy this was after the Atlanta ordeal. It was St. Patricks Day.

OmahaDevelopmentMan · Post by **OmahaDevelopmentMan** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:15 am

Terrorists main goal is obviousely to cause terror right? If they blew up some building in Omaha or Des Moines or KC, most of us would be terrified right. So would the country. See if they hit us where we don't expect it, they are acomplishing their job. So really its not so much about wanting specific things to blow up, it can be more scaring the |expletive| out of people so they don't even feel safe in their offices in a moderately sized city in the midwest.

But DTO, that must have been quite the experience, that will be fun to some day tell the grandkids.

jjjjhskr · Post by **jjjjhskr** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:40 am

DTO - At least you have supporters here who would vouch for you if needed, collect bail money, or at least send a cake with a file in it to saw through the bars at the jail.

Hopefully they were just being overzealous and it wasn't a race thing - that would be pretty bad. I doubt you looked very threatening.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 4:09 am

I don't think I look very threatening either but it's not the first time I've been stopped by the law for how I look.

guy4omaha · Post by **guy4omaha** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 4:43 am

DTO Luv wrote:I don't think I look very threatening either but it's not the first time I've been stopped by the law for how I look.

Well from that photo, it probably is the turbin and gun thing. Maybe is you get rid of the towel turbin they will leave you alone.

TechnicalDisaster · Post by **TechnicalDisaster** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:43 pm

I shouldn't even enter into this... but I can't help myself. I am sorry, DTO, that you were hassled. I don't deny that if I were in your shoes this would have been traumatic for me.

However, (here it goes):

I am glad that our police officers decided to check you out. Could they or should they have handled any of the details differently. But to the police who have been asked to be extra vigilant, your picture taking has to be regarded as potential casing until found out to be different.

I would have to think that if you had had proper ID on you this would have helped some.

In the past, some of the real terrorists walked around doing what you were doing, but with different motives of course. Being asked what we are doing is a small price, in my book, to pay for the deterrent and apprehension effect of the real terrorists.

I don't view the officers and people violating my rights. Rather I see them and all of us cooperating with them as working together to protect our rights from being blown up, dismembered, etc.

Man, I have to take issue with some of your arguments.
#1) Standing out in the open, plainly taking pictures of an historical landmark is not considered casing.
#2)The officer has a right to ask questions, and a right to ask for ID. He did not have a right to look at DTO's pictures. It was illegal search and seizure.
#3) Why did the Officer need "back-up?" Why did officers feel the need to surround DTO, and then threaten him? (by taking his picture and placing in a government watch list)
#4) The officer mentioned that this was a "situation." WHY? The officer was in charge of security outside, so questioning people who are suspicious should have been his normal duty. DTO was declared suspicious because of the color of his skin, plain and simple.
#5) (My Favorite) You mention: "I don't view the officers and people violating my rights. Rather I see them and all of us cooperating with them as working together to protect our rights from being blown up, dismembered, etc." Are you kidding? First it is hassling people for doing nothing wrong, then your wife gets felt up by male security at the airport because women can hide bombs in their bras. Are women suppose to just smile and say "I'm happy this stranger is fondling me, I feel safer now." Give me a freakin break.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:56 am

bradley414 wrote: #3) Why did the Officer need "back-up?" Why did officers feel the need to surround DTO, and then threaten him? (by taking his picture and placing in a government watch list)

I'm used to having officers call back up for me. I don't blame them because 10 times out of 11 I could take the officer, and they probably know it too. I've never just dealt with one officer. Two is usally the minimum.

I talked with some of my family today and everyone is worried about me being on some sort of list. That's scary. Just because I took some pictures now the govt can lock me up for unspecified amounts of time (thank you Patriot Act). My grandma was telling me stories about people who have been on lists recently who did nothing wrong but have had their lives ruined by the govt. I think I will talk with someone when I get back to Omaha on Monday. I'm not sure what I will do but check and see what I can do.

almighty_tuna · Post by **almighty_tuna** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:12 am

HAHA I'm watching Kentucky VS Cincinatti and there's some poor kid who's name is Jihad Muhammed. DTO has it easy...lol....

All DTO has to do to is never fly anywhere one-way or neglect to bring baggage!

Its not that bad being on a federal list if you don't plan to leave the country or fly.

Jon · Post by **Jon** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:36 am

I'm also angered by your story. But you have to know that if you do decide to pursue this, that picture you posted above will come up. It may already be too late, but I'd get out to photobucket and dump that picture, along with any others like it.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:51 am

I showed that pic to my family and they all just about shat themselves. I try to see the humor in things but apperently not everyone does.

I don't know if being on any sort of list would jsut prevent me from being able to fly or not. I really don't know what could come of it so that's why I'm putting off doing anything until I talk with someone who would know better.

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:43 am

DTO Luv:

No doubt..Your constitutional rights were violated in a big way..Further, law enforcement would have to charge you with a crime to confiscate the film in your camera (if this is indeed what they did)..

This incident is just further proof of the direction this RED country is going as it relates to chipping away at our constitutional freedoms..

First the Patriot Act..And now this (and a zillion in between)..

Disgraceful

..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

flyOMA · Post by **flyOMA** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:56 am

Try being just a photographer in general...At least in PUBLIC places. People either report you for being a potential terrorist or they flip out because they think you are taking pictures of them. One of my hobbies (prior to 9/11) was aviation photography, try THAT now.

I have been carrying around a "Photographer's Bill of Rights" for years now, it has NEVER worked. It seems evident to me that all someone has to say now is "national security" or "because of 9/11" and all of your still-in-tact civil rights are nullified. Even though you know you are doing nothing wrong, it is difficult to to justify subjecting yourself to those kind of situations, depite how much you enjoy doing it.

I feel for ya man...

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:02 am

Oh wow!..

Welcome to eomaha's forum flyOMA and WELL-STATED

..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:31 am

If they want to search me fine. I can understand that. But what upsets me off is that now I'm on some list and unless I do something about it I'll stay on it. I'm sure it wouldn't take that much for them to look up that I'm not a foreigner, I don't have any out of the country contacts ( I barely have out of state

) and that one of my hobbies is taking pictures. This whole thing blows. I say we have a big photo op at the court house.

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:52 am

The KEY thing is DTO Luv..DON'T let the authorities scare you away from what you obviously have a love and a talent for..Photgraphy of URBAN Omaha..

Keep on snapping those pics

..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:57 am

I'm not going to be scared away but the whole idea of being under suspision for taking pictures is insane. Think how many people take pics of the White House now or the National Capital. Anyone can pretty much get a picture if they want it bad enough. I think what happened to me was a chance for them to test out this new fear tactic. How often does a brown skinned, bearded person come down the street with a camera full of building pics? I'm guessing not very often.

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:59 am

Yep..It's retarted..

But that's the way of the RED..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

guy4omaha · Post by **guy4omaha** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:57 pm

bradley414 wrote:
Man, I have to take issue with some of your arguments.
#1) Standing out in the open, plainly taking pictures of an historical landmark is not considered casing.
#2)The officer has a right to ask questions, and a right to ask for ID. He did not have a right to look at DTO's pictures. It was illegal search and seizure.
#3) Why did the Officer need "back-up?" Why did officers feel the need to surround DTO, and then threaten him? (by taking his picture and placing in a government watch list)
#4) The officer mentioned that this was a "situation." WHY? The officer was in charge of security outside, so questioning people who are suspicious should have been his normal duty. DTO was declared suspicious because of the color of his skin, plain and simple.
#5) (My Favorite) You mention: "I don't view the officers and people violating my rights. Rather I see them and all of us cooperating with them as working together to protect our rights from being blown up, dismembered, etc." Are you kidding? First it is hassling people for doing nothing wrong, then your wife gets felt up by male security at the airport because women can hide bombs in their bras. Are women suppose to just smile and say "I'm happy this stranger is fondling me, I feel safer now." Give me a freakin break.

I feel your passion in your stance and arguments. I feel just as passionate the other way. Even your point #5 does not really phase me. I don't view these searches as fondling. When I am on a plane with my children, I prefer every measure for their safety be taken. If someone is inconvenienced or embarrassed vs tens or hundred of people dying, so be it.

Regarding your point #4, it just is not that plain and simple to me. I truly believe that if I was taking a picture at the courthouse, I would have received the same treatment. If I was the officer in question I would have responded the same way. And if the person I am questioning, does not have ID or provides conflicting information on place of residence, my concern is heightened.

I don't mean to offend you with my views. Actually I was a little surprised that the flames weren't a little more hot and heavy in response to my statement. I was preparing for the worst. My political views are pretty much in the minority here on this forum. Obviously, Brad, we are far apart on this issue. I don't expect that I am any more capable of changing your opinion on this than you are of changing mine. We're just fortunate to be part of the discourse.