Crossroads Mall Discussion

TitosBuritoBarn · Post by **TitosBuritoBarn** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:28 am

I'm having a hard time rationalizing why Crossroads is doing so poorly. To me it seems like Crossroads is just too close to Westroads, but they have been able to survive for this long...

Southroads and MOTB seemed to have died/are dying because they are outdated from a design and aesthetic standpoint. MOTB looks like it hasn't been updated since it opened in the mid-eighties. Crossroads, on the other hand, imo, is pretty decent looking on the inside.

But Westroads isn't very exciting on the inside either and is much older than MOTB and Southroads. Although it is very large AND in a wealthy neighborhood.

It seems to come down to a combination of how big the mall is, how new the mall is, and/or how wealthy the immediate population is. If you have two out of those three your mall will succeed. Anything less than that and it won't.

Post by **Brad** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:39 am

TitosBuritoBarn wrote:It seems to come down to a combination of how big the mall is, how new the mall is, and/or how wealthy the immediate population is. If you have two out of those three your mall will succeed. Anything less than that and it won't.

As mentioned before, Crossroads need to attract something different. Applestore, Crate and Barrel, Restoration Hardware, Macy's, Nordstroms, etc. If they have a different variety than Westroads, proximity will not make a difference.

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:10 am

In my opinion, Crossroads is failing because it was mistakenly marketed toward lower-income people, therefore it gained that perception eventually by the public. The neighborhoods in the area vary greatly in income level, from very wealthy Fair Acres, and upper-middle class Memorial Park/Dundee to the east, to the middle and somewhat lower income levels to the north of Crossroads. Enough people from all walks of life pass through the area every day to make it a viable location.

It will be hard to overcome the current perception of the place now, unless they do a MAJOR remodel job or wipe the site clean and build something totally new like Village Pointe with other office and high-density residential mixed in. Ultimately I'd like to see a good New Urbanist development go in there, but doubt the money is out there to make it happen anytime soon.

I think the West Dodge overpass and Village Pointe fatally wounded Crossroads, along with Simon's poorly targeted marketing, although Target and Sears seem to still be doing OK. It would be a shame to throw away the newer stuff like Target. Some of the existing structures are still worth too much to wipe the site clean I would think.

Stargazer · Post by **Stargazer** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:10 am

There's certainly a large wealthy demographic which lives immediately east of 72nd... apparently they are driving right past Crossroads to Westroads.

2Adam29 · Post by **2Adam29** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:22 am

Target is doing excellently, personally, I think it has everything to do with management. Being an employee at Target (however, my opinions in no way reflect the views or opinions of Target corporation) I hear all sorts of stories from other patrons of the mall who absolutely hate the manager. His name is "Bob" although I haven't heard a last name. Anyway, he doesn't seem to know how to conduct business, and pulls in all kinds of crazy things.

For example, Bob hired a carnival to come to Crossroads this year, as he had done the year previous. However, he kept the carnival running hours after the mall had closed. Sales didn't increase, but crime sure did. He also has been reported to Simon malls by a tenant for conspiracy to embezzle money from a certain department store. He threatened to put up signage on a tenant's property without their consent. He waited months and months before repairing critical damage to parking surfaces. Yet he still has his job. Really, all you need is someone half-way competent in there and you'll get the mall back up and running. It's prime real-estate, it just needs a fresh start with a smart manager.

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:31 pm

Stargazer wrote:There's certainly a large wealthy demographic which lives immediately east of 72nd... apparently they are driving right past Crossroads to Westroads.

If they want any decent shopping they have to.

My guess is they're just as likely to drive right past downtown Omaha on their way to Mall of America (Mpls) or the Plaza (KC).

Stargazer · Post by **Stargazer** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:34 pm

decent shopping

So how about putting some decent shopping at 72nd and Dodge then... Simon has simply dropped the ball.

MrPoloShirt · Post by **MrPoloShirt** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:32 am

Omaha cannot support more than two large malls.

Even Westroads and Oakview are getting squeezed.

Bulldoze Crossroads and build a dense park of offices and maybe a few condo buildings.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:11 pm

MrPoloShirt wrote:Omaha cannot support more than two large malls.

Even Westroads and Oakview are getting squeezed.

Bulldoze Crossroads and build a dense park of offices and maybe a few condo buildings.

Omaha has Village Point, South Pointe, Westroads, Crossroads and Oak View.

Additionally, Lincoln has 2 malls. You really think Omaha cannot support any more than Lincoln can?

OmahaJaysCU · Post by **OmahaJaysCU** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:21 am

MrPoloShirt wrote:Omaha cannot support more than two large malls.

Even Westroads and Oakview are getting squeezed.

Bulldoze Crossroads and build a dense park of offices and maybe a few condo buildings.

Where are your facts for this? That is such a dumb statement to simply just say that Omaha can only support two malls.

TechnicalDisaster · Post by **TechnicalDisaster** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:05 am

joeglow wrote:
MrPoloShirt wrote:Omaha cannot support more than two large malls.

Even Westroads and Oakview are getting squeezed.

Bulldoze Crossroads and build a dense park of offices and maybe a few condo buildings.
Omaha has Village Point, South Pointe, Westroads, Crossroads and Oak View.

Additionally, Lincoln has 2 malls. You really think Omaha cannot support any more than Lincoln can?

South Pointe? Where is South Pointe Mall? Never heard of it.

You're missing Shadow Lake from the list, is that what you meant?

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:06 am

bradley414 wrote:
joeglow wrote:
MrPoloShirt wrote:Omaha cannot support more than two large malls.

Even Westroads and Oakview are getting squeezed.

Bulldoze Crossroads and build a dense park of offices and maybe a few condo buildings.
Omaha has Village Point, South Pointe, Westroads, Crossroads and Oak View.

Additionally, Lincoln has 2 malls. You really think Omaha cannot support any more than Lincoln can?
South Pointe? Where is South Pointe Mall? Never heard of it.

You're missing Shadow Lake from the list, is that what you meant?

I don't know what I was thinking. Shadow Lake is what I meant.

MrPoloShirt · Post by **MrPoloShirt** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:09 am

joeglow wrote:
Omaha has Village Point, South Pointe, Westroads, Crossroads and Oak View.

Additionally, Lincoln has 2 malls. You really think Omaha cannot support any more than Lincoln can?

Village Pointe is not a proper mall, it's a strip mall.

MrPoloShirt · Post by **MrPoloShirt** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:10 am

OmahaJaysCU wrote:
MrPoloShirt wrote:Omaha cannot support more than two large malls.

Even Westroads and Oakview are getting squeezed.

Bulldoze Crossroads and build a dense park of offices and maybe a few condo buildings.
Where are your facts for this? That is such a dumb statement to simply just say that Omaha can only support two malls.

My fact are located inside these malls, GO THERE, they're empty, I've never seen more empty bays at Oakview or Westroads in my life.

Bosco55David · Post by **Bosco55David** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:17 am

MrPoloShirt wrote:
OmahaJaysCU wrote:
MrPoloShirt wrote:Omaha cannot support more than two large malls.

Even Westroads and Oakview are getting squeezed.

Bulldoze Crossroads and build a dense park of offices and maybe a few condo buildings.
Where are your facts for this? That is such a dumb statement to simply just say that Omaha can only support two malls.
My fact are located inside these malls, GO THERE, they're empty, I've never seen more empty bays at Oakview or Westroads in my life.

I think that probably has alot more to do with the economy than the number of malls in the area. The same thing is happening here in Florida.

Garrett · Post by **Garrett** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:33 am

But they still have an occupancy over 90 % (oakview 92.5 and Westroads 95 %)

OmahaJaysCU · Post by **OmahaJaysCU** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:23 pm

MrPoloShirt wrote:
OmahaJaysCU wrote:
MrPoloShirt wrote:Omaha cannot support more than two large malls.

Even Westroads and Oakview are getting squeezed.

Bulldoze Crossroads and build a dense park of offices and maybe a few condo buildings.
Where are your facts for this? That is such a dumb statement to simply just say that Omaha can only support two malls.
My fact are located inside these malls, GO THERE, they're empty, I've never seen more empty bays at Oakview or Westroads in my life.

That is based on emotion, I don't see a lot of people, or I saw a few empty bays. YAWN

Omahain3D · Post by **Omahain3D** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:00 pm

Here are some renderings I made on Google Sketchup just for fun.

An overview of the remodeled mall looking to the northeast. The original Sears can be seen along with a new 2 story Barnes and Noble in the same location.

The new Nordstrom in the location of the former Target, along with an Apple Store in the location of the former Old Navy. In the background new, skinnier, more modern white teflon tents can be seen along with several more skylights.

Looking to the north. Dodge street can be seen at the bottom of the rendering. A new Macy's anchor along with AMC theater are visible along Dodge Street.

A view of the new skylights and membrane tents over the food court. A new second story Kohl's would replace the vacant Dillard's.

Looking to the east at the former Dillard's entrance is a new glass pyramid structure serving as the main entrance to the mall. A new Walgreens with an exterior entrance is also visible.

Looking west along 72nd Street another overview of Crossroads can be seen, with Nordstrom and Kohl's connecting to the existing parking structure through skywalks.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:15 pm

That's all very interesting, showing a lot of coveted and appropriate tenants for that location. However, it follows the same, old, standard suburban mall format that is really outdated and is not as relevant today.

I'd love to see a more new urbanist concept; mixed use shops, retail, and residences oriented toward pedestrian-friendly, complete streets with multi-level parking either tucked behind or under ground.

Garrett · Post by **Garrett** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:28 pm

Was wondering when I could get close up on that Ryan, for those of you who don't know, He is the one who made most of the 3D buildings of Omaha in google earth.

Omahain3D · Post by **Omahain3D** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:03 pm

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:That's all very interesting, showing a lot of coveted and appropriate tenants for that location. However, it follows the same, old, standard suburban mall format that is really outdated and is not as relevant today.

I'd love to see a more new urbanist concept; mixed use shops, retail, and residences oriented toward pedestrian-friendly, complete streets with multi-level parking either tucked behind or under ground.

I can totally agree with that. The idea of the same old mall format is rather boring. But to be honest, I hate the Omaha by Design concept. I dont like the idea of incorporating Crossroads around the middle of Dodge Street.

This model will be available on the 3D Warehouse soon.

MrPoloShirt · Post by **MrPoloShirt** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:38 pm

ROFL, Nordstrom and Macy's at Crossroads! I cannot stop laughing.

People are NOT going to malls anymore, they're too scared to shop and when they do shop they shop online. Go to Oakview, look at how many empty bays there are, it's scary, I've never seen anything like it.

Bosco55David · Post by **Bosco55David** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:23 pm

MrPoloShirt wrote:ROFL, Nordstrom and Macy's at Crossroads! I cannot stop laughing.

People are NOT going to malls anymore, they're too scared to shop and when they do shop they shop online. Go to Oakview, look at how many empty bays there are, it's scary, I've never seen anything like it.

Sorry to say but you're wrong here.

Bosco55David · Post by **Bosco55David** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:09 am

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:That's all very interesting, showing a lot of coveted and appropriate tenants for that location. However, it follows the same, old, standard suburban mall format that is really outdated and is not as relevant today.

I'd love to see a more new urbanist concept; mixed use shops, retail, and residences oriented toward pedestrian-friendly, complete streets with multi-level parking either tucked behind or under ground.

That's nice and all, but I don't think it's a realistic goal for Crossroads.

2Adam29 · Post by **2Adam29** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:07 am

nice try with the Nordstroms, but you aren't pushing out Target that easy. the Crossroads location is their busiest store in Omaha.

Bosco55David · Post by **Bosco55David** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:00 am

2Adam29 wrote:nice try with the Nordstroms, but you aren't pushing out Target that easy. the Crossroads location is their busiest store in Omaha.

Good point. That Target isn't even 2 years old, is it?

Harpoon · Post by **Harpoon** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:11 am

They should really look to do what the folks down in Boca Raton, Florida did with Mizner Park. Mizner Park is located on the site of a former mall that was turned into a place that people actually want to visit. Keep the parking garage and bulldoze the rest, along with the Best Buy site and the rest of the junk located around there.

Here is a quote dealing with Mizner Park, it sounds a bit familiar to the current situation at Crossroads...

“By the mid-1980s, the mall was on its way out,” says Jo Ann Root, marketing director for Mizner Park. “You would walk into the Boca Mall and it would smell musty. There would be a lot of vacancy. There was no longer any reason for people to be shopping at the Boca Mall.”

Bosco55David · Post by **Bosco55David** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:15 am

Harpoon wrote:They should really look to do what the folks down in Boca Raton, Florida did with Mizner Park. Mizner Park is located on the site of a former mall that was turned into a place that people actually want to visit. Keep the parking garage and bulldoze the rest, along with the Best Buy site and the rest of the junk located around there.

Here is a quote dealing with Mizner Park, it sounds a bit familiar to the current situation at Crossroads...

“By the mid-1980s, the mall was on its way out,” says Jo Ann Root, marketing director for Mizner Park. “You would walk into the Boca Mall and it would smell musty. There would be a lot of vacancy. There was no longer any reason for people to be shopping at the Boca Mall.”

Again, it's a nice thought, but I don't think it's realistic. You've already got Aksarben Village close by, Midtown Crossing just a little over 3 miles to the east, downtown...etc.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:57 pm

Bosco55David wrote:Again, it's a nice thought, but I don't think it's realistic. You've already got Aksarben Village close by, Midtown Crossing just a little over 3 miles to the east, downtown...etc.

-This is the key point. I think we all want to see Crossroads become something great due to its location and history. However, they dicked around so long with their failing model that they may have very likely missed the opportunity to do something. It is to the point that anything they can do would most likely lead to over-saturation.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:19 pm

Bosco55David wrote:
StreetsOfOmaha wrote:That's all very interesting, showing a lot of coveted and appropriate tenants for that location. However, it follows the same, old, standard suburban mall format that is really outdated and is not as relevant today.

I'd love to see a more new urbanist concept; mixed use shops, retail, and residences oriented toward pedestrian-friendly, complete streets with multi-level parking either tucked behind or under ground.
That's nice and all, but I don't think it's a realistic goal for Crossroads.

Is that so? Are you an urban planner, economist, or a sociologist? What makes you say it's not a realistic goal? I think when it comes to sustainable development and quality of life, there's no such thing as "market saturation."

mrdwhsr · Post by **mrdwhsr** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:43 pm

Twenty-five years ago I would have said Crossroads was the center of metro Omaha. After moving farther west it seems like a long drive and a pain in the @$$ left turn from Dodge when Oak View is less than 3 miles, Village Point about 1 mile, not to mention Maple Street. NFM is about the only draw at 72nd & Dodge. Anything at the Crossroads can be found at other malls.

I would hate to see Crossroads go the way of Southroads or 42nd & Center, but it seems shoppers leave the older malls for the newer centers (like Shadow Ridge), just as they left downtown for the Crossroads fifty years ago. My money would be on Streets' New Urbanism with mixed use and a real transit center. I thought Crossroads shot themselves in the foot when the kicked MAT out.

I still hate shopping at malls, I'm pretty much an Internet shopper, except groceries, lumber, hardware, and power tools.

"Crossroads is doing fine," Jim Suttle.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:08 pm

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:
Bosco55David wrote:
StreetsOfOmaha wrote:That's all very interesting, showing a lot of coveted and appropriate tenants for that location. However, it follows the same, old, standard suburban mall format that is really outdated and is not as relevant today.

I'd love to see a more new urbanist concept; mixed use shops, retail, and residences oriented toward pedestrian-friendly, complete streets with multi-level parking either tucked behind or under ground.
That's nice and all, but I don't think it's a realistic goal for Crossroads.
Is that so? Are you an urban planner, economist, or a sociologist? What makes you say it's not a realistic goal? I think when it comes to sustainable development and quality of life, there's no such thing as "market saturation."

You mention "sustainable" and then say there is no such thing as "market saturation." Those seem to be 2 contradictory statements.

TechnicalDisaster · Post by **TechnicalDisaster** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:09 pm

Just $.02, but I think the problems with Crossroads was stagnant management. I don't believe it has anything to do with safety or sprawl.

I can't imagine any other area in Omaha that has more retail than the shopping areas around 72nd & Dodge with NFM, Lowes, Bestbuy, Target, Kohls, Sears, etc. It's down the street from a major university and up the street from professional business district. It doesn't make any sense that other retailers can be built, grow, expand, upgrade, etc, on that block but the major mall can fail. I believe that new management and a facelift would be enough to return the mall to all of its past glory.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:36 pm

joeglow wrote:
StreetsOfOmaha wrote:
Bosco55David wrote:
StreetsOfOmaha wrote:That's all very interesting, showing a lot of coveted and appropriate tenants for that location. However, it follows the same, old, standard suburban mall format that is really outdated and is not as relevant today.

I'd love to see a more new urbanist concept; mixed use shops, retail, and residences oriented toward pedestrian-friendly, complete streets with multi-level parking either tucked behind or under ground.
That's nice and all, but I don't think it's a realistic goal for Crossroads.
Is that so? Are you an urban planner, economist, or a sociologist? What makes you say it's not a realistic goal? I think when it comes to sustainable development and quality of life, there's no such thing as "market saturation."
You mention "sustainable" and then say there is no such thing as "market saturation." Those seem to be 2 contradictory statements.

Only if you don't understand the statement and don't get the metaphor. In other words, there can never be too much emphasis on sustainability and quality of life.

Bosco55David · Post by **Bosco55David** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:46 pm

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:Is that so? Are you an urban planner, economist, or a sociologist? What makes you say it's not a realistic goal? I think when it comes to sustainable development and quality of life, there's no such thing as "market saturation."

Nope. I'm a guy with a little interest in the city of Omaha...just like you.

But since we're on the topic, what makes you think it is realistic. 80 Dodge is dead. WST is dead or on life support, depending on who you listen to. We already have Arksarben and MTC finishing up. What makes you think that there is a realistic shot of implementing another one of these developments, especially in this economic climate?

I think Crossroads long term future is being a revitalized indoor mall in it's same basic layout. I don't see anyone spending the money to acquire the property, tear down the existing mall and construct a new development. I doubt even someone like Mutual of Omaha or First National would take that on.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:46 pm

Bosco55David wrote:Nope. I'm a guy with a little interest in the city of Omaha...just like you.

Well, for now at least... Although I do work at a major Downtown residential development and am looking into grad schools for Urban Planning and Design.

Bosco55David wrote:But since we're on the topic, what makes you think it is realistic. 80 Dodge is dead. WST is dead or on life support, depending on who you listen to. We already have Arksarben and MTC finishing up.

What I'm talking about goes beyond any one, individual project. I'm talking about values that should cut to the core of how we build our city. As I mentioned before, when it comes to sustainability and quality of life, there's no such thing as market saturation.

Bosco55David · Post by **Bosco55David** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:44 pm

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:when it comes to sustainability and quality of life, there's no such thing as market saturation.

Then lets build a whole bunch of these things and put that theory to the test.

MrPoloShirt · Post by **MrPoloShirt** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:51 pm

StreetsOfOmaha wrote: Is that so? Are you an urban planner, economist, or a sociologist? What makes you say it's not a realistic goal? I think when it comes to sustainable development and quality of life, there's no such thing as "market saturation."

You live in a fantasy world. People do not want these sort of developments, at least not enough to support a large amount of these sort of developments.

bbinks · Post by **bbinks** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:50 am

2Adam29 wrote:nice try with the Nordstroms, but you aren't pushing out Target that easy. the Crossroads location is their busiest store in Omaha.

132nd & Maple is the busiest as far as a Super. The Crossroads is the busiest for just a Target.

bbinks · Post by **bbinks** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:54 am

2Adam29 wrote:nice try with the Nordstroms, but you aren't pushing out Target that easy. the Crossroads location is their busiest store in Omaha.

132nd & Maple is the busiest as far as a Super. The Crossroads is the busiest for just a Target.