4th of July Tea Party

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:33 am

2:00 at Walnut Grove Park on 152nd and Q.

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:40 am

"Okay guys, one more thing. This summer when you're being inundated with all this American bicentennial Fourth Of July brouhaha, don't forget what you're celebrating:

and that's the fact that a bunch of slave-owning, aristocratic, white males didn't want to pay their taxes."

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:00 pm

Big E wrote:"Okay guys, one more thing. This summer when you're being inundated with all this American bicentennial Fourth Of July brouhaha, don't forget what you're celebrating:

and that's the fact that a bunch of slave-owning, aristocratic, white males didn't want to pay their taxes."

I knew I would here that out of you some time today.

justnick · Post by **justnick** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:28 pm

Does any more need to be said?
Is this the Paultard's doing, or have the hijackers decided to hijack again?

Bosco55David · Post by **Bosco55David** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:36 pm

Oh gee, another tea bag party. :roll:

justnick · Post by **justnick** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:40 pm

It makes me wonder if they know they're a national joke.

Post by **Brad** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:12 pm

Here is what I don't get... I do some pretty Dorky stuff, I will drive 2 hours to photography a train.

Comic Book Collectors will wait in line for hours to see a superhero at a comic store.

Astronomers will stay up all night out in a field in the middle or no where to see a star.

D'Shawn will dress up as a woman and run around downtown in heals.

All the things I listed are hobbies and makes an individual happy and entertains them... What draws people to waste their holiday to stand around and |expletive| about taxes?

justnick · Post by **justnick** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:15 pm

Brad wrote:What draws people to waste their holiday to stand around and |expletive| about taxes?

R(backwards LOVE)UTION

Garrett · Post by **Garrett** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:27 pm

Maybe they just wanted to drink some tea, such critics.

:lol: :yes:

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:40 pm

justnick wrote:It makes me wonder if they know they're a national joke.

Only to the people who get their news from MSNBC.

I love it when there are parades for gay rights or pro-abortion, etc. it is a great exercise of our right to protest, but when people oppose the government stealing honest hard earned money to give it away to losers (i.e. our great father of 10 covered this week in the World Herald) it is a "national joke." THIS is the perfect reason why Idiocracy is a great predictor of where we are headed as a nation.

Post by **Brad** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:25 am

joeglow wrote:I love it when there are parades for gay rights or pro-abortion, etc. it is a great exercise of our right to protest, but when people oppose the government stealing honest hard earned money to give it away to losers (i.e. our great father of 10 covered this week in the World Herald) it is a "national joke." THIS is the perfect reason why Idiocracy is a great predictor of where we are headed as a nation.

To each their own, but for the record, I make fun of all protesters, Political, religious, lifestyle, social, if you are too mad that you need to waste a day, let alone a holiday protesting, you need a life, says the guy that drives 100 miles to see a train

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:32 am

joeglow wrote:I love it when there are parades for gay rights or pro-abortion, etc. it is a great exercise of our right to protest, but when people oppose the government stealing honest hard earned money to give it away to losers (i.e. our great father of 10 covered this week in the World Herald) it is a "national joke." THIS is the perfect reason why Idiocracy is a great predictor of where we are headed as a nation.

If it weren't for the fact that the organized fiscal libertarians came crawling out of the woodwork since 1/20/09, AFTER the federal government had quadrupled spending and debt, I'd give the movement an ounce of credit.

As it stands, this is petty partisan BS.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:23 am

Big E wrote:
joeglow wrote:I love it when there are parades for gay rights or pro-abortion, etc. it is a great exercise of our right to protest, but when people oppose the government stealing honest hard earned money to give it away to losers (i.e. our great father of 10 covered this week in the World Herald) it is a "national joke." THIS is the perfect reason why Idiocracy is a great predictor of where we are headed as a nation.
If it weren't for the fact that the organized fiscal libertarians came crawling out of the woodwork since 1/20/09, AFTER the federal government had quadrupled spending and debt, I'd give the movement an ounce of credit.

As it stands, this is petty partisan BS.

Can you honestly NOT see the spending that has taken place in the last 6 months? While I agree that I would have liked to have seen more opposition to some of Bush's spending, the fact that someone cannot understand how there is such an increase with those who are sick of the spending we have seen of late is petty partisan BS.

UNMCStudent · Post by **UNMCStudent** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:08 pm

From the Washington Post

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:26 pm

joeglow wrote:Can you honestly NOT see the spending that has taken place in the last 6 months? While I agree that I would have liked to have seen more opposition to some of Bush's spending, the fact that someone cannot understand how there is such an increase with those who are sick of the spending we have seen of late is petty partisan BS.

First, I agree that the spending is out of control. I do believe that the only way to get the economy rolling again is to, in fact, get money moving - but yes, this is way too much. But this is a different discussion entirely. The spending has been out of control for almost a decade.

My point is that the people at these stupid |expletive| tea parties making the most noise right now are stupid partisan hypocrites. Pure and simple.

They sat quietly when a surplus went to a deficit. They giggled orgasmically when we entered an unnecessary war. They take tax credits on their mortgage interest. They take tax credits on their children. They bought huge SUVs subsidized by idiotic legislation exempting them from fuel economy standards. They didn't say a god damn word the first time three quarters of a trillion dollars was handed to the banking industry.

Where the heck were they when the other side of the aisle was doing this?

justnick · Post by **justnick** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:31 pm

Big E wrote:
joeglow wrote:Can you honestly NOT see the spending that has taken place in the last 6 months? While I agree that I would have liked to have seen more opposition to some of Bush's spending, the fact that someone cannot understand how there is such an increase with those who are sick of the spending we have seen of late is petty partisan BS.
First, I agree that the spending is out of control. I do believe that the only way to get the economy rolling again is to, in fact, get money moving - but yes, this is way too much. But this is a different discussion entirely. The spending has been out of control for almost a decade.

My point is that the people at these stupid |expletive| tea parties making the most noise right now are stupid partisan hypocrites. Pure and simple.

They sat quietly when a surplus went to a deficit. They giggled orgasmically when we entered an unnecessary war. They take tax credits on their mortgage interest. They take tax credits on their children. They bought huge SUVs subsidized by idiotic legislation exempting them from fuel economy standards. They didn't say a god darn word the first time three quarters of a trillion dollars was handed to the banking industry.

Where the heck were they when the other side of the aisle was doing this?

Oh the days when us Queers and Abortionists and Mexicans were the real evil.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:38 pm

Big E wrote:
joeglow wrote:Can you honestly NOT see the spending that has taken place in the last 6 months? While I agree that I would have liked to have seen more opposition to some of Bush's spending, the fact that someone cannot understand how there is such an increase with those who are sick of the spending we have seen of late is petty partisan BS.
First, I agree that the spending is out of control. I do believe that the only way to get the economy rolling again is to, in fact, get money moving - but yes, this is way too much. But this is a different discussion entirely. The spending has been out of control for almost a decade.

My point is that the people at these stupid |expletive| tea parties making the most noise right now are stupid partisan hypocrites. Pure and simple.

They sat quietly when a surplus went to a deficit. They giggled orgasmically when we entered an unnecessary war. They take tax credits on their mortgage interest. They take tax credits on their children. They bought huge SUVs subsidized by idiotic legislation exempting them from fuel economy standards. They didn't say a god darn word the first time three quarters of a trillion dollars was handed to the banking industry.

Where the heck were they when the other side of the aisle was doing this?

I did not go to this one, but at the first one, I ran into a fair number of Democrats. The problem is that many want to portray this movement as just right wing partisans and, sadly, too many people are too quick to simply believe them. Frankly, I would lend more credence to your post if you had attended one yourself and were basing this on first hand experience. As it is, you are basing this on nothing more than how you THINK it is and how MSNBC went out of their way to portray it. heck, there is a youtube clip of a reporter who sought out the nuts and when she inadvertently let an intelligent person on camera, tried to end it as soon as possible.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:40 pm

justnick wrote:
Big E wrote:
joeglow wrote:Can you honestly NOT see the spending that has taken place in the last 6 months? While I agree that I would have liked to have seen more opposition to some of Bush's spending, the fact that someone cannot understand how there is such an increase with those who are sick of the spending we have seen of late is petty partisan BS.
First, I agree that the spending is out of control. I do believe that the only way to get the economy rolling again is to, in fact, get money moving - but yes, this is way too much. But this is a different discussion entirely. The spending has been out of control for almost a decade.

My point is that the people at these stupid |expletive| tea parties making the most noise right now are stupid partisan hypocrites. Pure and simple.

They sat quietly when a surplus went to a deficit. They giggled orgasmically when we entered an unnecessary war. They take tax credits on their mortgage interest. They take tax credits on their children. They bought huge SUVs subsidized by idiotic legislation exempting them from fuel economy standards. They didn't say a god darn word the first time three quarters of a trillion dollars was handed to the banking industry.

Where the heck were they when the other side of the aisle was doing this?
Oh the days when us Queers and Abortionists and Mexicans were the real evil.

Seriously, are you happy with the spending the US government is doing? If so, how do YOU propose making your voice heard? Or, do you support a populace that just sits by quietly and lets the government do whatever they want?

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:49 pm

1) I'm not happy with the level of spending now. I wasn't happy with it for the last decade, either.

I'm commenting on the wackadoos that think irresponsible fiscal policy was invented since the anointment of B. Hussein Obama. Remember, I was the guy wondering why there weren't riots in the street during the first $750M worth of handouts. Where were all of these protesters then?

2) I don't watch MSNBC. Everything I need to know I learn from Jon Stewart.

Honestly, I watch very little televised news any more (I prefer credible sources online). It's all either blatantly partisan or fluff. I don't think I've ever turned MSNBC on in my life.

3) In fairness, I haven't attended one, but I would be willing to bet you any amount you want that the VAST majority of attendees to these rallies voted Bush/Bush/McCain, and they hadn't said a word about federal fiscal responsibility when the rich were getting tax breaks and there was zero regulation on vital commodity markets. Funny how they all went apeshit bonkers right after the inauguration.

And again, I largely agree with the point they're making at the protests. What I'm calling them out on is their raging hypocrisy.

Remember: "Irresponsible spending and social welfare is terrible... unless I'm the one benefitting from it."

4) You make your voice heard by being an educated, informed voter at all levels of government.

5) I'll repeat my main question again:

Where were these people before 1/20/09?

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:18 pm

I'd like to invite people to read the front page of the TEA website and try to tell me this isn't partisan:

http://www.teapartyday.com/

Joe, I don't disagree with you about the overspending. Just please stop trying to get people to believe this isn't partisan shenanigans.

My favorite line is from the "news" section:

If you spent $1 million dollars a day from the day Jesus was born until now, you would only have spent about three quarters of a trillion.

LOL... take a look at what's available in the store and try to tell me it isn't partisan.

justnick · Post by **justnick** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:55 pm

joeglow wrote: Seriously, are you happy with the spending the US government is doing? If so, how do YOU propose making your voice heard? Or, do you support a populace that just sits by quietly and lets the government do whatever they want?

Noone should EVER let the government be to just do what it wants. But there are also such things as priorities. There are so many things in this universe that need to come before greed and money.

1,000 rights a gay couple is denied, leading quite a few to die alone without their husbands and wives, and denying the benefits of said husbands and wives after they die? Whatever, pervs.
Raising taxes for the rich? Oh no! Time to hijack the Paultard's double entendre protests.

If you really wanted to do protests that made people not think you were greedy racists hijacking the Paultard's R(backwards LOVE)UTION you would be spending the money you're using for full page ads in newspapers and Bill O'Reilly's paycheck at homeless shelters and telling reporters that you're helping the real victims of government spending.
Like THAT will ever happen.

LOL... take a look at what's available in the store and try to tell me it isn't partisan.

Hosted by the AFA, I might add.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:29 pm

justnick wrote:1,000 rights a gay couple is denied, leading quite a few to die alone without their husbands and wives, and denying the benefits of said husbands and wives after they die? Whatever, pervs.
Raising taxes for the rich? Oh no! Time to hijack the Paultard's double entendre protests.

-If I had my way, I would play video games, read books, ride my bike, play golf, go to football games, etc. However, I need to provide for myself and my family and, thus, have a job. This means, I am forced to let some company literally have 50-60 hours a week of my life. This is time I will NEVER get back and cannot do what I want with.

I save every penny I can as I cannot wait for the day when I can retire and do what I want. Because of this desire, I make sure I am in a situation where I can shoulder just about any storm. Now, because my president and my government feels we need to give $900,000 to a POS who can't figure out how to use a condom and has 10 kids, I am forced to pay more in taxes and have my current savings eventually de-valued due to the inevitable massive inflation we WILL experience.

Thus, you complain about not having someone sit next to you when they die and I am complaining about the government and Obama literally stealing my life away from me. They are forcing me to spend tens of thousands of more hours of my life working so THEY can dictate what irresponsible losers get to reap the fruits of labor. Thus, it is all a matter of perspective. I simply am not arrogant or ignorant enough to devalue what is important to you.

justnick · Post by **justnick** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:44 pm

joeglow wrote:I simply am not arrogant or ignorant enough to devalue what is important to you.

Well I am ignorant and arrogant enough to say it's just money. And they're are much better things to protest than paying taxes.
I'm expecting you to never drive on a state maintained road, and never use a hospital again.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:49 pm

justnick wrote:
joeglow wrote:I simply am not arrogant or ignorant enough to devalue what is important to you.
Well I am ignorant and arrogant enough to say it's just money. And they're are much better things to protest than paying taxes.
I'm expecting you to never drive on a state maintained road, and never use a hospital again.

Wow, I figured I would actually bold the word "more" as I have heard the same old arguments from people with your perspective and you STILL resort to that tired old argument. You are worried about spending time with someone when you die and when I say I am worried about being able to spend tens of thousands of hours with my wife, your response is "well, its only money." I would say you are simply too lazy to look at ANYTHING outside of your own little perspective and assume the whole world should conform to your views (arrogant as well, I guess).

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:57 pm

Joe:

Would you be willing to add up how much money you've saved on child tax credits and home mortgage deductions? I'd like my share of that money back, too.

Besides, once you make enough money to hit the tax bracket where the government comes to your house in the night and steals all your money, you can probably afford an accountant - who statistics dictate was probably educated in public schools and went to a state college using some form of government aid - who in turn will find the loopholes designed to help people with money keep it all.

And I'll again ask someone to explain to me how the tea parties aren't partisan craziness.

justnick · Post by **justnick** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:01 pm

Big E wrote:And I'll again ask someone to explain to me how the tea parties aren't partisan craziness.

'cause they said so, stoopid.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:08 pm

justnick wrote:
Big E wrote:And I'll again ask someone to explain to me how the tea parties aren't partisan craziness.
'cause they said so, stoopid.

Funny thing is, I was there. Only one of us is basing this on what we THINK it is.

S33 · Post by **S33** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:59 pm

justnick wrote:
joeglow wrote:I simply am not arrogant or ignorant enough to devalue what is important to you.
Well I am ignorant and arrogant enough to say it's just money. And they're are much better things to protest than paying taxes.
I'm expecting you to never drive on a state maintained road, and never use a hospital again.

Dude, unfortunately for you not EVERYTHING is a "gay thing". I'm pretty sure Joe's top priority at this point is to provide for his family and plan for their future.

Further, the tea parties, which I have not attended, aren't just about taxes. Its core focus is government spending. How much, for what, when, how will that affect us, etc. What your government's doing is destroying the dollar. You know, the stuff you spend 50-60 hours a week every week of your life working for. Our government is operating like a 12 year old with a credit card. It is literally impossible to avoid a complete and total economic meltdown on this course. We spend more than we make and have been for a very long time. We are at a record debt...which would be fine...if the |expletive| deficit wasn't already at record levels. Mix that with a world economy who could give a |expletive| less about our manufacturing sector (probably the only way we can clear some of our deficit). Today, our credit card and enablers of this economic |expletive| show have been maxed out. They (China) have exploited our lack of moral conscience and economic bubbles for the explosive growth of their own economy. We were used to fuel China's growth and they are step by step moving away from us. They have knowingly pushed our debt and deficits to get to unrecoverable levels, they can destroy our dollar at the push of a button, and they are stealing our intellectual properties via cyberspace and have been doing so for more than a decade.

To sum everything up, China his surgically began to take down the sole remaining super power on Earth to what could possibly be second world status. Just imagine zero foreign investment.

My whole point? When all this happens, and it's going to unless a commerce fairy visits the white house, you will probably have better things to do than |expletive| about gay marriage. Not saying it's not a valid movement, but when you are homeless and the unemployment rate sits in the high 20's, it won't cross your mind. These tea parties are years late and may be somewhat partisan, but the idea is extremely important and everyone, red or blue, should plan on attending.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:14 pm

Some people forget what destroyed the USSR (and just about every democracy in history) - loose fiscal policy.

S33 · Post by **S33** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:24 pm

joeglow wrote:Some people forget what destroyed the USSR (and just about every democracy in history) - loose fiscal policy.

Don't you also find it humorous how very few people REALLY understand what is going on with our economy and what the consequences of our policies are? People have no idea that Obama, at this point, has only put a band aid on the bleeding but the underlying problem is getting worse. He has fixed nothing and has created ABSOLUTELY nothing that would help the deficit.

His stimulus, and I have read a lot of it, does nothing but revolve more domestic spending. A "sustainable" job isn't going to save the economy. Neither is creating another market bubble (green energy).

justnick · Post by **justnick** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:37 pm

S33 wrote: "Teabaggers" Funny how the most intolerant people protest for tolerance. Funny how you label them "teabaggers" and you know jack |expletive| about them.

I'm not using this thread to discuss gay issues. If you want to talk about economics and why these tea parties could be useful, I'm all yours.

I don't doubt many of the people affiliated with the tea party movement have partisan intentions, but that doesn't mean we throw the whole thing out. The fundamental idea of the tea parties could be the only thing that keeps people like you able to sit behind the computer and bash people with total anonymity.

I'm hardly anonymous.
You can't miss me. Really.

Calling a person who sends a teabag to a senator a teabagger is hardly intolerant, it's an adjective. I can't help it you all hijacked a movement with such versatile naming possibilities.

S33 · Post by **S33** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:43 pm

justnick wrote:
I'm hardly anonymous.
You can't miss me. Really.

Calling a person who sends a teabag to a senator a teabagger is hardly intolerant, it's an adjective. I can't help it you all hijacked a movement with such versatile naming possibilities.

"You all" I'm not involved. What I do is try to inform the blind of what they are missing behind the partisan finger pointing. Just admit, you've got nothing to debate or add to this discussion unless you want to talk gay. I simply mediated a point the Tea Party movement was trying to make that affects us all. People like you choose the bliss of ignorance instead.

I'm sure you think I'm a right wing conservative, but I'm not. I like to sit right in the middle and enjoy the common sense.

S33 · Post by **S33** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:58 pm

Big E wrote: Where were these people before 1/20/09?

What's it even matter? Is that an argument that needs addressed before we can begin to solve any problems?

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:10 pm

justnick wrote:
S33 wrote:
Big E wrote: Where were these people before 1/20/09?
What's it even matter? Is that an argument that needs addressed before we can begin to solve any problems?
It does if you want to prove your movement is anything but a thinly veiled anti-Obama stunt.

Amen.

I'm all for hearing ideas on reducing spending, taxes, the debt and the deficit from anyone with a brain in their head.

What I have ZERO interest in is hearing it from the people (TEA, not joe and S33) that spent the previous eight years goose-stepping to the King of Fiscal Retardery.

(edit: justnick's post disappeared while I was typing this.)

justnick · Post by **justnick** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:15 pm

Big E wrote: (edit: justnick's post disappeared while I was typing this.)

'cause these threads get boring after a while and have to die. Typical Gemini.

S33 · Post by **S33** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:24 pm

Big E wrote:
Amen.

I'm all for hearing ideas on reducing spending, taxes, the debt and the deficit from anyone with a brain in their head.

What I have ZERO interest in is hearing it from the people (TEA, not joe and S33) that spent the previous eight years goose-stepping to the King of Fiscal Retardery.

(edit: justnick's post disappeared while I was typing this.)

First of all, you know nothing about me. I'm a bit young to have been able to spend the last 8 years "goose-stepping" to Bush. I do, however, understand how we got into the mess, what the problem is, and the direction we need to go.

You still have yet to offer anything to this thread other than your pre-school finger pointing.

S33 · Post by **S33** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:26 pm

justnick wrote:
Big E wrote: (edit: justnick's post disappeared while I was typing this.)
'cause these threads get boring after a while and have to die. Typical Gemini.

You're just bored because you realize gay doesn't quite fit this thread...despite your attempt.

justnick · Post by **justnick** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:29 pm

S33 wrote:
justnick wrote:
Big E wrote: (edit: justnick's post disappeared while I was typing this.)
'cause these threads get boring after a while and have to die. Typical Gemini.
You're just bored because you realize gay doesn't quite fit this thread...despite your attempt.

Never tried to make this thread gay. I did, however, use an issue I know to express that there are better things out there to protest.

Notice my idea of protesting government spending by helping the homeless went COMPLETELY ignored.

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:31 pm

S33 wrote:
Big E wrote:
Amen.

I'm all for hearing ideas on reducing spending, taxes, the debt and the deficit from anyone with a brain in their head.

What I have ZERO interest in is hearing it from the people (TEA, not joe and S33) that spent the previous eight years goose-stepping to the King of Fiscal Retardery.

(edit: justnick's post disappeared while I was typing this.)
First of all, you know nothing about me. I'm a bit young to have been able to spend the last 8 years "goose-stepping" to Bush. I do, however, understand how we got into the mess, what the problem is, and the direction we need to go.

Re-read the post. I specifically said I wasn't talking about you or joe. (I can see how that could have been misread, though, so I'm willing to give this one a pass.)

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:33 pm

Big E wrote:Do you think eliminating welfare is going to eliminate stupid people breeding? Do you think people will trade in their food stamps for contraception or abstinence?

Give me an alternative to welfare and I'm all ears. We can't exactly put the bottom rung of society on a big raft and then sink them in the ocean..

-There are a couple different things I would like to see. Specifically, I would love to see more money invested in creating jobs for people to investigate those receiving government aid. This will ensure those getting government aid are making an honest effort. I would like to see the government provide what they do now, free day care, and free education or job training. After x amount of time getting training, the government will help you find a job. After that, much of your benefits WILL be cut (but we will still help out – the biggest being free or reduced daycare costs), provided you maintain reasonable employment. If at any point you show zero desire to work for any of this, we treat it like we would any other abusive situation and remove the kids.

I would then like to see the government support/subsidize Boys Town type settings around the country to help raise many of these kids. While it is not the ideal, it gives the kids a MUCH better shot than they otherwise would have. Throw out the notion that since someone was able to get railed by a few guys and squeeze out a kid, she MUST be the best person to raise you. Much of this could be funded by no longer throwing $900,000 at families like the ones the OWH highlighted. In the long term, the kids will either have a role model at home teaching the value of working for a living or they will be in a Boys Town which has been successful at handling these types of kids. The key is breaking the cycle of poverty and we should see our social costs drop. The problem is that it is a LONG term solution and our politicians only provide what we demand: immediate gratification.

Big E wrote:But again, to my point, you're taking deductions. And again it seems there's the attitude of state and federal funding are great things so long as I gets mine. .

-I am taking less than the average person (as it is the minimum). Thus, for your logic to hold water, I would support doing away with it and have a resulting decrease in our tax rates. This would benefit me MUCH more than others.

Big E wrote:As far as I'm concerned, deductions based on the number of dependents one has is just another form of welfare, whether it is a spouse, child or whatever.

And again, how much money have you saved over the course of your tax-paying life on child and housing deductions? There's no reason for these options to exist other than politicians buying votes.

-Agreed!

Big E wrote:"Loophole" was a poor choice of words on my part. My point was that when one is in a financial position to be able to afford an accountant and/or financial advisor, a whole world of options opens up that the average Joe isn't going to know about, or have the time or resources to discover. And this system is so unbelievably stacked it makes my head spin.

Simple example: as a business owner, my vehicle and gas is paid for by the company pre-tax. Now let's say the TCO/yr on the vehicle is $5000 (I don't know what it is off the top of my head, to be honest). Do you suppose the guy making $35K/yr would like his taxable income reduced by $5000? I bet he would, but he can't, because he has to buy his car and gas after taxes. .

-That is hardly a loophole or favor. If that person is driving anywhere, work-related, other directly to or from work, they DO get to write it off on their taxes. And if you are including personal usage of the car in your example, you are violating tax law.

All that said, I do agree our tax code is way too complicated and there DO exist loopholes (just nowhere near the number many would like you to believe). As soon as I retire, I will whole-heartedly support simplify it.

Big E wrote:
Where were these people before 1/20/09?

If we want to be completely honest, they were pretty vocal at the very end of Bush’s term when he passed stimulus part 1. But, as we pointed out (and the graphics prove) Obama has taken it to a whole new level. I guarantee if you took 100 people and provided them with NOTHING other than the spending levels (i.e. they had no idea the political climate), you would see a DRASTIC increase in those upset and concerned with the current levels of spending. While I am sure some of it is partisan, that does not counter the actual movement.

Example: Soros is a VERY left wing person and he funds mediamatters (in addition to many other groups). While they have an agenda, does it make the information the provide any less accurate. While you most likely are correct on the groups bankrolling much of this, the message and the majority of those screaming are what counts.