Iowa Interstate Signage Biased and Inaccurate

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 4:16 pm

Having traveled to both Des Moines and Kansas City in the past two weeks, I have a few gripes about signage along interstates 80 and 29.

There's something really wrong with the world when all you see heading west on I-80 are signs for Council Bluffs, and all you see heading north on I-29 are signs for St. Joseph and Council Bluffs. That's not the way interstate signage works!!! When you're in a city and you see sings at interstate junctions, the signs tell you whatever the next LARGEST METRO is if you go that particular direction on that particular interstate. Just like we see signs in Omaha that say "East I-80 Des Moines" or "South I-29 Kansas City", OMAHA NEEDS TO BE ON THE SIGNS IN THOSE RESPECTIVE CITIES FOR I-80 WEST AND I-29 NORTH.

As I drove in those cities, there's not a single GD sign saying that Omaha is the next major city or metro on the interstates. Des Moines is all over signs in Omaha and Kansas city for I-80 and I-35! I'm not saying that Des Moines is not an important destination. IT IS! I'm saying that Omaha is almost TWICE THE SIZE of Des Moines, and it sure as heck should be treated equally to any other major city when it comes to interstate signage.

It's bad enough that Omaha doesn't adorn the interstate signs in these two cities, but what's worse is that you don't even see ANY signs for Omaha until you are within about 20 miles!!!!!!!! No body wants to know how close to Council Bluffs they are. CB is a part of the OMAHA AREA!!!!

Conclusion:

Des Moines should have signs saying "West I-80 Omaha" and Kansas City should have signs saying "North I-29 Omaha" and there should be Omaha signs the whole distance in between the cities!

DMRyan · Post by **DMRyan** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:42 pm

I would agree that in principle, Omaha should be listed on the signs. However, both Omaha and Council Bluffs are listed as "control cities" on the interstate system. Control cities are required to be listed on the Interstate signs and the closest control city on I-29 from KC and I-80 from Des Moines is Council Bluffs. This holds especially true on I-29 since it doesn't cross the Nebraska state line.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:04 pm

Thanks, Ryan. I knew there had to be some "glich" that would explain it

.

NO WAY should Council Bluffs be a "control city" along with Omaha, Des Moines, and KC.

I've definitely thought this all out many times. Your mind wanders while you drive

. To me it's logical that I-29 should list Omaha as one of it's destinations because it passes through the Omaha "metro area", and indeed, people use I-29 to get to Omaha.

Regardless, the argument DEFINITELY stands for I-80.

edsas · Post by **edsas** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:17 pm

How are cities designated "control" cities, Ryan? I noticed what Aaron is talking about when I lived in Nebraska. I thought the useage of Council Bluffs for reference was odd, especially considering Denver and Chyenne (cities so much further away) have signs indicating the direction to Omaha.

If it makes you feel better, Aaron, all the signs for interstates heading north of Los Angeles reference Sacramento instead of San Francisco. You don't get the first SF mileage sign until you're about 100 miles north of LA. Not as big a snub as CB vs. Omaha, but I'm sure it irks more than a few bay area residents.

Minneapolis Boy · Post by **Minneapolis Boy** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:17 pm

Yeah, Streets, I hear ya! All the years of driving back and forth from Minneapolis, the same thing has bothered me. In Des Moines, the only time you see Omaha on a sign is when you're just about to the 80 split off of 35. It says Council Bluffs, then Omaha appears underneath. I have always thought Omaha got short-changed regarding signage.

BTW, it's good to be living back in Omaha now!

omahaopinions.com · Post by **omahaopinions.com** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:31 am

I've always noticed CB on the signs but it didn't really seem to bother me but always made me wonder why. I could see the point why Omaha is not listed while traveling on I-29 because technically that route never crosses into Omaha. Regarding I-80 traveling from Des Moines though, the only time I see a reference is at the junction of I80/I35 like Minneapolis Boy mentioned.

DMRyan · Post by **DMRyan** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:40 am

...previously posted in the wrong thread.

From the American Association of State and Highway Transportation Officials (AASHTO):

The List of Control Cities for Use in Guide Signs on Interstate Highways lists cities which have been determined by each state to be major destinations and population centers located on or near the Interstate Highway System. Although the control cities are listed sequentially along specific interstate routes, it may be desirable to select ‘control city’ destinations whose location may be more readily recognized by the interstate traveler than to the city which may be listed next in the sequential order. To provide continuity and consistency, the ‘control city’ should remain the same on all successive signs throughout the length of the route until that destination is reached. Continuity in signing for ‘control cities’ should be maintained as a route continues into another state.

^
Now that's what I call good government reading!

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:30 pm

Thanks for that, Ryan.

But it basically proves my point!

"...destinations and population centers located on or near the Interstate Highway System."

Exactly!

No way should CB be a control city!

And as far as north I-29, even though the above quote proves it should say "Omaha", I would be happy with an "Omaha Area" sign, since it doesn't actually pass through Omaha city limits.

Anyway, thanks for all your comments, guys. That's one of the things I love about the forum. If I've got something on my mind related to Omaha, I know I can come on here, and people understand where I'm coming from. Thanks.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 5:30 pm

I guess I could run to KC with a can a spray paint and write Omaha istead of St. Loe or CB.

I thought it was cool on the way to Wisconsin in DM where the I-80 signs say west to Chicago, north to Minneapolis, and south to KC, but on the way back home it says to CB instead of Omaha. When I came back from South Dakota I don't remember if the signs said Omah or not.

Ingersoll1978 · Post by **Ingersoll1978** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:45 pm

Those signs heading west used to say Davenport, KC, and Minneapolis. They did change it to reflect Chicago. It's funny here (Chicago) how some of the signs say simply "Iowa" as the control city.

TitosBuritoBarn · Post by **TitosBuritoBarn** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:09 pm

If it makes you feel any better, at the westbound I-80/I-680 split in Iowa, they list "North Omaha" above "Sioux City" on the 680 sign. Also, on eastbound I-80 near 13th street, there's a sign that lists "Iowa" as the control city.

I agree that it would make more sense to list Omaha than Council Bluffs on mileage signs and directional signs and stuff for eastbound I-80. Council Bluffs being listed on I-29 signs I can understand as it never passes through Omaha, but not I-80. Omaha is listed on a couple of I-80 signs in Des Moines, but always under Council Bluffs as if Council Bluffs was an important tourist destination.

West Des Moines is of comparible size to Council Bluffs and they don't list West Des Moines as a control city on any sign until you're within like 10 miles of the Des Moines area.

Perhaps its a conspiracy of the Iowans. "Oh yea, we don't really know how much farther of a drive it is to Omaha, its rather irrelevant anyway you know, but here is beautiful Council Bluffs! Fine big-box shopping, fine gas stations, and don't forget to stop at the boats!"

BTW: Speaking of gas stations, the window washing water at the BP near the Mall of the Bluffs smells like puke. The water in all of their little water buckets does...I checked.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:40 pm

That's gross man

But you're catching on to my point about the signage....there seems to be no logic or reason to it.

And, the fact that I-29 doesn't actually pass through Omaha isn't a good enough explaination for me, either. It passes through "THE METRO", and within a mile or so of DOWNTOWN OMAHA!

It just seems ridiculous. And this is the synic in me, but I really wouldn't be surpised if it was some kind of conspiracy. I'd take that explaination over sheer ignorance on the part of these state's highway authorities.

Traveler · Post by **Traveler** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:52 am

I had a friend drive in from Nashville and he made the same comment that he never saw any signs for Omaha until he was almost there. That's always been a thing with me, too.

DMRyan · Post by **DMRyan** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:03 am

Write your congressman.

OmahaHome · Post by **OmahaHome** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 7:18 am

I could have sworen I have seen Omaha signs in Chicago and in Des Moines...am I wrong?

Chicago-
Des Moines
Omaha
Denver

Des Moines-
Council Bluffs
Omaha

Ingersoll1978 · Post by **Ingersoll1978** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:05 pm

I know on I-80 in Chicago they say Des Moines or Iowa. On I-88, they say Iowa. I've never seen an Omaha sign over here. In Des Moines, the west mixmaster (where I-35, I-235, and I-80 convene) says Council Bluffs/Omaha.

OmahaHome · Post by **OmahaHome** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:37 pm

Maybe I was wong...I went to Loyola my fresh year and I thought I saw Omaha and Denver too.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:41 pm

I think this might actually be something to take up with the Omaha Chamber of Commerce. You'd think they would have the power to pull strings and get things changed, especially since it DIRECTLY affects them.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:21 pm

Hey Aaron. When I go to Dubuque this December I'll take red spray paint and right on all the west-bound I-80 signs "Omaha. Yes we've always been here. You should be too." Will that make you feel better.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:32 pm

No

.

nebport5 · Post by **nebport5** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:43 am

I driven through Iowa many many times. I've especially noticed the CB no Omaha sinage. This bothers me ever time I drive that strech. It's kind of like driving through Wisconsin with signs for St. Paul all over the place and the finally putting a Minneapolis sign once you cross the border.

Perhaps Ryan is right, maybe we should write our congressmen.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:50 pm

REVIVAL

Since icejammer brought this thread back to my attention, I thought I would post a few photos showing either the lack of OMAHA on interstate signage in Iowa, particularly in the Des Moines area, as well as the unnecessary inclusion of Council Bluffs on large interstate directional signs (as opposed to mileage signs along the interstate).

Chicago, Minneapolis, Kansas City, Omaha and... Council Bluffs? What is it doing on this sign? It is part of the Omaha area and not necessary on a directional sign like this which shows destination cities in the given directions.

Exclusion of Omaha/unnecessary inclusion of Council Bluffs

I couldn't find any good imagery showing examples from North I-29, but the same thing is true.

My other big beef, is that the junction of wb I-80 with I-29 in Council Bluffs does not show signage for DOWNTOWN OMAHA, via nb I-29 to I-480. This is the most LOGICAL way to get to Downtown from wb I-80, and all it says is "North I-29 Sioux City". The first signs for DOWNTOWN OMAHA from wb I-80 aren't until the I-480 junction, and then you're BACKTRACKING.

Omaha has definitely suffered by the fact that another state's DOT has control over navigational signs in it's metro, and right near it's downtown no less, as opposed to Des Moines, which sits right in the middle of its state and is the CAPITAL of that state, giving it pretty much free reign to design navigational signage as it sees fit.

I wish the city of Omaha worked and collaborated more closely with IDOT to ensure efficient, accurate, and logical interstate signage in that state, as it pertains to the Omaha area.

Post by **Brad** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:58 pm

Streets, it has been moved.

On the topic of signage, I drove to Minneapolis and back this weekend and did not even notice the signage. May be its because I am use to it, but I never really paid any attention to it. I did notice on the update signs along 80and 680 it did alternate mileage between CB one one sign and Omaha on the next.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:59 pm

Right, and they say "OMAHA Neb." ;)

Thanks for the prompt location change!

Post by **Brad** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:05 pm

I think the ones in Colorado add the "Neb" too.

the1wags · Post by **the1wags** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:56 pm

Yeah it's Iowa's conspiracy to belittle and humiliate Omaha. (end sarcasm) Not to be a jerk, but who cares? Do out of state visitors snicker and say "Wow, Omaha must really suck, Iowa doesn't even put them on these road signs!!!" In the big scheme of things, it matters zilch.

That said, I agree that the signage in CB could be improved as it relates to DT Omaha.

BTW, the pics are not working.

Stargazer · Post by **Stargazer** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:05 pm

Brad may have noticed however, the nicely alternating signs between Minneapolis and St Paul on the way up 35.

Post by **Brad** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:09 pm

Stargazer wrote:Brad may have noticed however, the nicely alternating signs between Minneapolis and St Paul on the way up 35.

Yes I did. I really don't think the signage is that big of a deal. Even less so with so many people having GPS these days. We had two GPS units on our trip and relied on them more than any signage.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:22 pm

the1wags wrote:Not to be a jerk, but who cares?

Well... ME, obviously.

No I don't think that's what people are thinking. To the contrary, I think the main issue is that they're not even thinking about Omaha; out of sight, out of mind.

To me, I just think it's important to public perception to see your city on the signage in OTHER major cities. It reinforces, in an extremely subconscious fashion, the notion that that city is a DESTINATION.

And, as I've pointed out, the treatment of Omaha on Iowa's interstate signage seems premeditated.

I completely agree, though, that perhaps what's most important is improving signage on the Iowa side of the Metro as it relates to Downtown destinations.

Candleshoe · Post by **Candleshoe** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:50 pm

For what it's worth... Omaha is a control city for I-76 in Colorado.

Go figure. It's a bonus?

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:12 pm

A perfect example! And from that location, you have Grand Island AND Lincoln before you get to Omaha, but Omaha is the next "destination" city which gives directional orientation.

Bob from Omaha · Post by **Bob from Omaha** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:48 pm

And in spite of the fact that it doesn't say Omaha, Omaha still continues to grow.

For what it's worth, does anyone simply get in their car and say "I don't need a map or a GPS or even a plan. The signs will tell me where Omaha is."

Yes, it would be nice to have Omaha on a few signs, but the world seems to spin on its axis anyway.

the1wags · Post by **the1wags** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:58 pm

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:A perfect example! And from that location, you have Grand Island AND Lincoln before you get to Omaha, but Omaha is the next "destination" city which gives directional orientation.

Poop example. Lincoln and Grand Island aren't at the crossroads of 2 interstates, unlike Council Bluffs. This isn't some big conspiracy by Iowa to |expletive| on Omaha. If you want to be angry with someone, go back in time and gripe to the powers that be from this shitty state that let I29 get built up the west side of Iowa instead of the east side of Nebraska.

thenewguy · Post by **thenewguy** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:14 pm

yeah, i was thinking that myself. What's with all the hatin' on council bluffs, streets?

Post by **Brad** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:11 pm

Not that it matters, but geographically the interstate would not work in Nebraska like it works in Iowa...

I think this is one of the most pointless arguments we have ever had on eomahaforums.

UNOstudent · Post by **UNOstudent** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:32 pm

I remember a few months ago driving to Iowa City and noticed an error in the signs. I don't remember the exact details but about 30 miles east of Council Bluffs, 32 east of Omaha, there is a sign that says Des Moines is 86 miles away. A few miles east is another sign that said Des Moines is 88 miles away. Again, I don't remember the exact numbers and location but you get the point.

Ingersoll1978 · Post by **Ingersoll1978** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:25 am

I really doubt it's some conspiracy by the IDOT to slight Omaha. If that was the case, they wouldn't list it at all. The state determines control cities for signage. Council Bluffs is obviously a major city in Iowa (as it's in the top 10...and the second largest city in Western Iowa). In addition, I'm sure our constituents in SW Iowa would be quite upset if they were removed. It's the same way in other states...as in Minnesota when your traveling south from Minneapolis on I-35, the control city is listed as Albert Lea (Des Moines is listed when you reach 90 right outside of Albert Lea).

thenewguy · Post by **thenewguy** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:08 am

good point.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:09 pm

To me it all just seems inconsistent.

Ingersoll, in your example, Albert Lee is not a SUBURB of Des Moines.

The way Iowa's interstate signage reads is tantamount to having signs in Omaha and ALL along east-bound I-80 toward Des Moines that read "Urbandale" or "West Des Moines" (which isn't a good example since it has "Des Moines" in the name), and that only mention Des Moines (which is a MAJOR CITY, like Omaha) once you get within about 15 or 20 miles. Or having signage in Des Moines for Joliet, IL (in stead of Chicago), Bloomington, MN (in stead of Minneapolis), or Liberty, MO (in stead of Kansas City).

NO major city would have one of its SUBURBS/smaller metro cities listed as a control city on signage in a city that is over 100 miles away. Yeah, I-80 and I-29 intersect on the Iowa side of the metro, but it's at the HEART of the metro REGION of OMAHA.

It just seems absurd and premeditated, and I can't believe no one has challenged it yet.

Many of you seem to be missing my point. I'm not saying people couldn't find Omaha without the signage. That's ridiculous. I'm making the case that having your city as a control city on interstate signage in other major cities serves as a strong, subliminal advertisement, showing that your city is also a destination.

Ingersoll1978 · Post by **Ingersoll1978** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:21 pm

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:To me it all just seems inconsistent.

Ingersoll, in your example, Albert Lee is not a SUBURB of Des Moines.

The way Iowa's interstate signage reads is tantamount to having signs in Omaha and ALL along east-bound I-80 toward Des Moines that read "Urbandale" or "West Des Moines" (which isn't a good example since it has "Des Moines" in the name), and that only mention Des Moines (which is a MAJOR CITY, like Omaha) once you get within about 15 or 20 miles. Or having signage in Des Moines for Joliet, IL (in stead of Chicago), Bloomington, MN (in stead of Minneapolis), or Liberty, MO (in stead of Kansas City).

NO major city would have one of its SUBURBS/smaller metro cities listed as a control city on signage in a city that is over 100 miles away. Yeah, I-80 and I-29 intersect on the Iowa side of the metro, but it's at the HEART of the metro REGION of OMAHA.

It just seems absurd and premeditated, and I can't believe no one has challenged it yet.

Council Bluffs isn't a "suburb" of Omaha. The City of Council Bluffs has been one of Iowa's largest cities since 1860. It is one of two primary cities within the Omaha-COUNCIL BLUFFS metro area, which Council Bluffs was settled well before the City of Omaha. Council Bluffs is obviously a very distinct entity within the Omaha-Council Bluffs metro. You could easily flip the coin and say Omaha is a very large suburb of Council Bluffs, considering it wouldn't have even developed without the push of Council Bluffs business leaders (and some other influential Iowans). To minimize Council Bluffs' place in history to a "suburb" is ridiculous. Suburbs in today's sense didn't form until the 20th century.

Many of you seem to be missing my point. I'm not saying people couldn't find Omaha without the signage. That's ridiculous. I'm making the case that having your city as a control city on interstate signage in other major cities serves as a strong, subliminal advertisement, showing that your city is also a destination.

Maybe it's not a destination then? LOL Don't worry...we see the Omaha CVB ads all the time ...and would assume most of us know how to get there...considering it's across the river from Council Bluffs.