Crossroads Mall Discussion

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:15 pm

MrPoloShirt wrote:
StreetsOfOmaha wrote: Is that so? Are you an urban planner, economist, or a sociologist? What makes you say it's not a realistic goal? I think when it comes to sustainable development and quality of life, there's no such thing as "market saturation."
You live in a fantasy world. People do not want these sort of developments, at least not enough to support a large amount of these sort of developments.

I think you're mistaking what people WANT with what they NEED. You may be right that Omaha can only support so many Village Pointe or Shadow Lake type developments at this time. But that IS what they want.

I totally agree with Streets that a true New Urbanist type development is what people really want in this day and age. They may not all know it until they experience it, but I'm sure that would be the best use for the Crossroads property in the long run. The old neighborhood mall model is dead. People expect more. You either have to build a MEGA Mall, like Mall of America, as a destination itself or weave retail in with the urban fabric as a mixed used development.

2Adam29 · Post by **2Adam29** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:16 pm

bbinks wrote:
2Adam29 wrote:nice try with the Nordstroms, but you aren't pushing out Target that easy. the Crossroads location is their busiest store in Omaha.

132nd & Maple is the busiest as far as a Super. The Crossroads is the busiest for just a Target.

I work at Target, (but do not represent them in any way) and I've heard time and time again that we are the busiest store in the district. Not just out of regular stores, but all Target stores.

Post by **Brad** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:22 pm

2Adam29 wrote:I work at Target, (but do not represent them in any way) and I've heard time and time again that we are the busiest store in the district. Not just out of regular stores, but all Target stores.

Really? I heard sales dropped from the Saddle Creek location?

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:07 pm

GetUrban wrote:I totally agree with Streets that a true New Urbanist type development is what people really want in this day and age. They may not all know it until they experience it, but I'm sure that would be the best use for the Crossroads property in the long run. The old neighborhood mall model is dead. People expect more. You either have to build a MEGA Mall, like Mall of America, as a destination itself or weave retail in with the urban fabric as a mixed used development.

-WOW! Think pretty highly of your personal views, do you? I assure you most people I know definitely do NOT want that. And, of the 3 people I know who live in urban areas in much larger cities, ALL of them are planning on starting families and want to move away from the Shangra La you are describing.

SabrinaFaire · Post by **SabrinaFaire** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:21 am

FWIW (prob not much) I personally don't like malls and I really hate those faux main street shoppes like Village Pointe and Shadow Lake. There's no where to park and I can't find anything. It's too contrived. Plus I assume that the rent there is exorbitant and that I can't afford to shop there anyway.

cdub · Post by **cdub** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:17 am

I'm not sure we will get the total redevelopment at Crossroads that it needs but I am fairly sure that it will not simply get redone as an indoor mall. Better management is not all that place needs. If it gets redone properly, it will also not be a shadow lake or Village Point. Those places, while nice in their own way, lack the main key for sustainable redevelopment, a true mix of uses.

Oh, and interesting that people are getting called out for not being planners, developers etc... Everyone on here has got an opinion and I doubt that if you disagreed you'd care if they were.

I'm still hoping for a natural disaster to take the whole area out so we can start over (when nobody is there, of course!)

TitosBuritoBarn · Post by **TitosBuritoBarn** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:18 pm

I believe that Omaha could support a Nordstroms, a Macy's, and the like, but I don't believe a mall like crossroads could be turned into a luxury retail center. It's too large to be a luxury mall for a market the size of Omaha's. Crossroads should be turned into a mixed use neighborhood; a place similar to Aksarben Village with a couple of large office buildings/commercial centers fronting the 72nd and Dodge intersection.

S33 · Post by **S33** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:34 pm

TitosBuritoBarn wrote:I believe that Omaha could support a Nordstroms, a Macy's, and the like, but I don't believe a mall like crossroads could be turned into a luxury retail center. It's too large to be a luxury mall for a market the size of Omaha's. Crossroads should be turned into a mixed use neighborhood; a place similar to Aksarben Village with a couple of large office buildings/commercial centers fronting the 72nd and Dodge intersection.

Macy's I would agree. Not sure about Nordstroms.

How about retro fitting the entire food court (tent) area and surrounding bays into a KC Live/P&L district type setup with mixed use around it? It's a bit far fetched, but I just can't imagine thriving retail in that building ever again...with the exception of Target.

Bosco55David · Post by **Bosco55David** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:04 pm

TitosBuritoBarn wrote:I believe that Omaha could support a Nordstroms, a Macy's, and the like, but I don't believe a mall like crossroads could be turned into a luxury retail center. It's too large to be a luxury mall for a market the size of Omaha's. Crossroads should be turned into a mixed use neighborhood; a place similar to Aksarben Village with a couple of large office buildings/commercial centers fronting the 72nd and Dodge intersection.

Why do you think it's too large? I see Macy's in malls smaller and larger than Westroads.

TitosBuritoBarn · Post by **TitosBuritoBarn** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:37 pm

Bosco55David wrote:
TitosBuritoBarn wrote:I believe that Omaha could support a Nordstroms, a Macy's, and the like, but I don't believe a mall like crossroads could be turned into a luxury retail center. It's too large to be a luxury mall for a market the size of Omaha's. Crossroads should be turned into a mixed use neighborhood; a place similar to Aksarben Village with a couple of large office buildings/commercial centers fronting the 72nd and Dodge intersection.
Why do you think it's too large? I see Macy's in malls smaller and larger than Westroads.

I should have clarified. I meant I don't believe the Omaha market could support the addition of enough upscale stores like Macy's, Nordstrom's, additional Apple Stores, whatever to fill a space the size of Crossroads at this time. I believe the market would allow for a few upscale stores to be tacked on to existing malls/shopping centers, but not enough to fill the entirety of a remodeled crossroads.

Although I believe something similar to a KC Live as S33 mentioned would probably do well, I'm afraid it would detract from entertainment options downtown too much. I personally would rather see that downtown.

Bosco55David · Post by **Bosco55David** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:04 pm

TitosBuritoBarn wrote:I should have clarified. I meant I don't believe the Omaha market could support the addition of enough upscale stores like Macy's, Nordstrom's, additional Apple Stores, whatever to fill a space the size of Crossroads at this time. I believe the market would allow for a few upscale stores to be tacked on to existing malls/shopping centers, but not enough to fill the entirety of a remodeled crossroads.

I think Omaha could probably handle one or the other, and possibly both. There isn't a Macy's in the Omaha area and they'd probably be able to survive off the "newness factor" (yes, I made that up) and name alone for quite some time. Nordstrom's doesn't have quite the name recognition as Macy's but I think alot of people in Omaha would flock to that store too.

It would be nice to have those stores at Crossroads and Von Maur out at Westroads. :yes:

Midtown Gal · Post by **Midtown Gal** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:13 am

I went to my first neighborhood association meeting last week (I live in the Country Club neighborhood), where Pete Festersen spoke about a handful of city issues. One of the issues brought up by the association members was what's going on with Crossroads. They said that that's the only shopping area near them and Target is nice to have, but just doesn't cut it on its own. They said whether it's a traditional mall or some sort of urban development with a shopping aspect, something needs to go there. From what I gathered, they weren't very picky, just that it doesn't need to sit vacant any longer. Of course, Mr. Festersen said that there are no new plans to announce right now, but I'm hoping something gets done soon.

I think the area could support something really nice there, though. There's a lot of money in the surrounding neighborhoods that would spend a good chunk of their disposable income there, IMO. Don't get it twisted, though. I'm still in my 20s, so I'm not making any real money yet. I'm a Target-gal all day long.

But think about it...Dundee, Fairacres, Country Club, and maybe even parts of Aksarben?

Garrett · Post by **Garrett** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:11 pm

Midtown Gal wrote: I think the area could support something really nice there, though. There's a lot of money in the surrounding neighborhoods that would spend a good chunk of their disposable income there, IMO. Don't get it twisted, though. I'm still in my 20s, so I'm not making any real money yet. I'm a Target-gal all day long. But think about it...Dundee, Fairacres, Country Club, and maybe even parts of Aksarben?

By Target-gal do you mean Target Lady?

Midtown Gal · Post by **Midtown Gal** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:50 am

Nice

I've seen that skit on SNL and I'm not sure how I feel about it. But by "Target-gal" I meant something more along the lines of, "I can't afford to buy new bed sheets at Dillards, so I buy them at Target." More like that.

nativeomahan · Post by **nativeomahan** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:55 am

No major retailer is expanding in this economy. They are all barely hanging on. Maybe in another 2-3 years....

The Crossroads district has a wealth of potential. Actually, it amazes me that given the area's traffic count, central location, and positive demographics, how the mall management have managed to screw things up as royally as they have.

My suggestion: wave a magic wand, turn the entire south parking lot into a mixed use center with condos/apartments a la Aksarben Village, and add entertainment like a multi screen cinema and bars/restaurants right at the very corner of 72nd and Dodge. Lots of neon and glitz. Think mini Times Square or Piccadilly Circus. Have a wrap around ticker tape running the latest news and sports scores 30 feet above street level. Add some vibe! People would want to return to this natural city center if you only give them a reason.

Anyone have such a magic wand?

Let's step into another world...

S33 · Post by **S33** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:20 am

nativeomahan wrote:No major retailer is expanding in this economy. They are all barely hanging on. Maybe in another 2-3 years....

Except for that magical Wal-Mart of course! :)

Post by **Brad** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:35 am

S33 wrote:
nativeomahan wrote:No major retailer is expanding in this economy. They are all barely hanging on. Maybe in another 2-3 years....

Except for that magical Wal-Mart of course! :)

Even they have cut back.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:52 am

I LOVE your vision, Bill.

nativeomahan · Post by **nativeomahan** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:14 pm

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:I LOVE your vision, Bill.

I wish I had the $$$ to put it into action. In time I hope Crossroads will re-become the entertainment/shopping mecca it used to be.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:07 pm

nativeomahan wrote:
StreetsOfOmaha wrote:I LOVE your vision, Bill.
I wish I had the $$$ to put it into action. In time I hope Crossroads will re-become the entertainment/shopping mecca it used to be.

Yes, but only second to Downtown/Midtown. :)

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:24 pm

Just for a memory refresher, here is the vision for Crossroads and the 72nd and Dodge corridor as proposed by OmahaByDesign (which apparently doesn't do anything anymore...)

Could you imagine this!!!

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:50 pm

OmahaChef wrote:...and that is why the best they can do at the moment is attract stores like Omaha Fake Gem and Bead Emporium.

Buy local.

nativeomahan · Post by **nativeomahan** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:29 pm

Last time I checked (today), NFM and Lowes are doing just fine in this neighborhood. I would suspect that if you drew a circle with a radius 2 miles long around 72nd and Dodge Streets you would find an average household income approaching or exceeding the mean for all of Omaha. You would include Warren Buffett and all of his neighbors in that grouping.

Post by **Brad** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:24 pm

Footlocker is closing 117 stores... How much you want to bet Crossroads is one of them?

nebport5 · Post by **nebport5** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:42 am

Will this ever be a viable mall again? I can't imagine it as absolutely nothing has been done to this mall (save Target) to compete with growth and development of other shopping centers. At what point does Simon take this feeble horse out to pasture? We all know location isn't the issue. What a terrible waste of prime land. How about bulldozing the thing and putting in an park? Perhaps a land swap with the city?

Bosco55David · Post by **Bosco55David** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:37 am

nebport5 wrote:Will this ever be a viable mall again?

Possibly. I think it's best bet would be to attract some stores exclusive to the Omaha market, such as a Macy's or Bloomingdale's.

I can't imagine it as absolutely nothing has been done to this mall (save Target) to compete with growth and development of other shopping centers. At what point does Simon take this feeble horse out to pasture?

Don't count on Simon putting any money into this property unless absolutely essential. They've already got it up for sale and I know there is pretty solid speculation that new management might solve alot of problems.

We all know location isn't the issue. What a terrible waste of prime land. How about bulldozing the thing and putting in an park?

Probably not an option, especially in this financial climate. Sears and I believe Target both own the land their stores are located on. While you could probably convince Sears to move, the chances of Target leaving their uber successful store fall somewhere between "slim to none" and "when h-e-l-l freezes over".

OmahaChef · Post by **OmahaChef** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:44 pm

A couple of months ago I read an article that was one of those ever-so-popular Top 10's. Like Top 10 Places to Raise a Cat, or Top Ten Cities For Over The Top Xmas Decorations. It was the 10 most likely malls to close nationwide, and yep, Crossroads was in it. Recognized nationally!

I don't know about the "uber successful" Target either. Any time I am there, they have no more than 3-4 checkout stands open. And having gone with a friend who drives to the Target in CB twice now, I have come to realize the Target at Crossroads just doesn't have the full selection of merchandise other Targets have. And I am not taking food into account in that personal assessment.

2Adam29 · Post by **2Adam29** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:54 am

OmahaChef wrote:A couple of months ago I read an article that was one of those ever-so-popular Top 10's. Like Top 10 Places to Raise a Cat, or Top Ten Cities For Over The Top Xmas Decorations. It was the 10 most likely malls to close nationwide, and yep, Crossroads was in it. Recognized nationally!

I don't know about the "uber successful" Target either. Any time I am there, they have no more than 3-4 checkout stands open. And having gone with a friend who drives to the Target in CB twice now, I have come to realize the Target at Crossroads just doesn't have the full selection of merchandise other Targets have. And I am not taking food into account in that personal assessment.

just to let you know, Target at Crossroads is doing just fine. I'm an employee there, (but do not represent Target Corp.) and we have plenty of business. Our selection is the same as it has been since 2006. Or selection is not as large as a Super Target but not as small as a regular sized Target, as our store and the North location were both built as prototypes of a scaled-down Super-Target.

TitosBuritoBarn · Post by **TitosBuritoBarn** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:18 am

2Adam29 wrote:
OmahaChef wrote:A couple of months ago I read an article that was one of those ever-so-popular Top 10's. Like Top 10 Places to Raise a Cat, or Top Ten Cities For Over The Top Xmas Decorations. It was the 10 most likely malls to close nationwide, and yep, Crossroads was in it. Recognized nationally!

I don't know about the "uber successful" Target either. Any time I am there, they have no more than 3-4 checkout stands open. And having gone with a friend who drives to the Target in CB twice now, I have come to realize the Target at Crossroads just doesn't have the full selection of merchandise other Targets have. And I am not taking food into account in that personal assessment.
just to let you know, Target at Crossroads is doing just fine. I'm an employee there, (but do not represent Target Corp.) and we have plenty of business. Our selection is the same as it has been since 2006. Or selection is not as large as a Super Target but not as small as a regular sized Target, as our store and the North location were both built as prototypes of a scaled-down Super-Target.

Also, the CB store is part of a new Target concept where an expanded amount of groceries are sold (I used to work for Target and read about it on a flier in the break room). Not all regular Targets got the expanded grocery section, just the ones built after 2008 I think. The CB store opened March of 2009.

Omababe · Post by **Omababe** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:21 pm

OmahaChef wrote:A couple of months ago I read an article that was one of those ever-so-popular Top 10's. Like Top 10 Places to Raise a Cat, or Top Ten Cities For Over The Top Xmas Decorations. It was the 10 most likely malls to close nationwide, and yep, Crossroads was in it. Recognized nationally!

Oh, you mean this one:

http://www.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowc ... malls.html

This came out some time ago.

I don't know about the "uber successful" Target either. Any time I am there, they have no more than 3-4 checkout stands open. And having gone with a friend who drives to the Target in CB twice now, I have come to realize the Target at Crossroads just doesn't have the full selection of merchandise other Targets have. And I am not taking food into account in that personal assessment.

Every time I remember being in the 72nd St. Target' (pronounced with a very pretentious faux accent aigu)

it was busy and thriving.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:46 am

The sad thing is that we are even having a discussion of how successful a TARGET store is at the mall. The only malls I have seen with Target's are either in upset ant little towns or ghetto's. Successful or not, this SUCKS having a Target there. This place should be long gone and turned into something much better by now. Instead, we will be stuck with this POS eyesore at one of our top intersections for well over a decade.

Omababe · Post by **Omababe** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:23 am

joeglow wrote:This place should be long gone and turned into something much better by now. Instead, we will be stuck with this POS eyesore at one of our top intersections for well over a decade.

Personally, I can't see anything at all wrong with Target'. It's not Bloomingdales by any means, but certainly has more class than Wally World.

It's much better than a second boarded-up anchor shop in that mall!

Now if they would get their act together as the economy recovers and coax something like Filene's Basement or Sax Off Fifth into that old Dillard's space, the mall could very well become successful again. Upscale? Most definitely not, but commercially viable.

2Adam29 · Post by **2Adam29** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:17 am

personally, I want the Best Buy to move into the Dillard's spot, and then they can tear down the current Best Buy, with the ridiculously large parking lot, and put something useful there, or add some much needed green-space.

Bosco55David · Post by **Bosco55David** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:34 am

I agree with Omababe and 2Adam29. Personally, I'm holding out home that Macy's follows through on their places to move to Omaha by taking over the old Dillard store, although I realize that is a long shot since they probably aren't going to move in to a struggling mall, especially when it would be the first/only store in the area.

When all is said and done though, I just want the place active again. I'm not too picky.

nebport5 · Post by **nebport5** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:55 am

Bosco55David wrote:I agree with Omababe and 2Adam29. Personally, I'm holding out home that Macy's follows through on their places to move to Omaha by taking over the old Dillard store, although I realize that is a long shot since they probably aren't going to move in to a struggling mall, especially when it would be the first/only store in the area.

It's more than a long shot. Nothing worth a shat is going to move in without a complete overhaul of the mall. There's a better chance or a new mall being built somewhere else. In the meantime, maybe hope for Dick's to close or Penny's to relocate at Westroads, then maybe a Macy's or Nordstrom might come in.

Bosco55David · Post by **Bosco55David** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:11 pm

nebport5 wrote:
Bosco55David wrote:I agree with Omababe and 2Adam29. Personally, I'm holding out home that Macy's follows through on their places to move to Omaha by taking over the old Dillard store, although I realize that is a long shot since they probably aren't going to move in to a struggling mall, especially when it would be the first/only store in the area.

It's more than a long shot. Nothing worth a shat is going to move in without a complete overhaul of the mall. There's a better chance or a new mall being built somewhere else. In the meantime, maybe hope for Dick's to close or Peny's to relocate at Westroads, then maybe a Macy's or Nordstrom might come in.

I worked for Macy's a couple years ago, and believe me, they have their eye on Omaha.

OmahaBen · Post by **OmahaBen** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:46 pm

Bosco55David wrote:
nebport5 wrote:
Bosco55David wrote:I agree with Omababe and 2Adam29. Personally, I'm holding out home that Macy's follows through on their places to move to Omaha by taking over the old Dillard store, although I realize that is a long shot since they probably aren't going to move in to a struggling mall, especially when it would be the first/only store in the area.

It's more than a long shot. Nothing worth a shat is going to move in without a complete overhaul of the mall. There's a better chance or a new mall being built somewhere else. In the meantime, maybe hope for Dick's to close or Peny's to relocate at Westroads, then maybe a Macy's or Nordstrom might come in.
I worked for Macy's a couple years ago, and believe me, they have their eye on Omaha.

He wasn't saying they didn't have their eye on Omaha. He was saying they won't move into an empty Crossroads. On that point, I think he's spot on.

bbinks · Post by **bbinks** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:13 pm

2Adam29 wrote:personally, I want the Best Buy to move into the Dillard's spot, and then they can tear down the current Best Buy, with the ridiculously large parking lot, and put something useful there, or add some much needed green-space.

I don't see Best Buy being the one to fill the void. Best buy remodeled within the last several years. Plus, not knowing how much time is on their lease, they may be locked into that place for awhile, unless they move and pay out the lease on an empty place. The old Dillard's was not very visible from the Dodge side, unless you knew it was there, you may not have seen it.

No matter what goes into the mall, the mall still needs to get the people into the place. People are apt to not shop where the do not feel safe. The problems have gone down alot, but the perception is still there for many people.

Bosco55David · Post by **Bosco55David** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:33 pm

OmahaBen wrote:On that point, I think he's spot on.

Well that's good, since no one is saying otherwise.

bbinks wrote:I don't see Best Buy being the one to fill the void. Best buy remodeled within the last several years. Plus, not knowing how much time is on their lease, they may be locked into that place for awhile, unless they move and pay out the lease on an empty place. The old Dillard's was not very visible from the Dodge side, unless you knew it was there, you may not have seen it.

No matter what goes into the mall, the mall still needs to get the people into the place. People are apt to not shop where the do not feel safe. The problems have gone down alot, but the perception is still there for many people.

Now that you mention it, I don't think I've ever seen a Best Buy as a mall anchor.

RegisResident · Post by **RegisResident** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:49 am

I wish that someone would reinvigorate Crossroads... back in Albany we had a mall that reminds of Crossroads- it is called Colonie Center and it had a lot of vacancies and mostly outlet/clearance name-brand stores. Some how over the past 6-8 years the owners of the mall were able to reinvigorate the mall and now it is almost fully occupied and it has a number of stores that none of the other malls in the area have including an LL Bean, Cheesecake Factory, P.F. Changs, a Cinema plex (similar to RAVE), Macy's (there is also a Macy's at Crossgates), etc. One thing that I definitely noticed is that instead of forcing the new stores to only have an inside entrance, a lot of the new stores have both inside and outside entrances, and the outside entrances resemble the brand of the store. With the new look and new stores this previously vacant mall is now a very popular shopping destination.

Just thought I would share