Missouri River

Stargazer · Post by **Stargazer** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:11 pm

Is anyone else wondering if the corps of engineers couldn't have anticipated the need to empty the upstream dams earlier in the year?? Did someone totally |expletive| up??

Coyote · Post by **Coyote** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:44 pm

Flood preparations shift as schedule for Garrison Dam releases changes again

Bismarck Tribune wrote:The Army Corps of Engineers has slowed the pace of its increasing river releases from Garrison Dam. Todd Lindquist, operations manager at Garrison Dam, said that the corps will eventually release 150,000 cubic feet per second but is trying to provide time for communities along the river to prepare for the rising flood. Its schedule on Wednesday was to reach 120,000 cfs by Sunday, a target it had earlier expected to meet by today.

Just how many dams are we looking at along the Missouri?

skinzfan23 · Post by **skinzfan23** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:11 pm

Coyote wrote:

Just how many dams are we looking at along the Missouri?

There are 15 dams on the Missouri River and 4 in South Dakota alone.

Coyote · Post by **Coyote** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:19 pm

I didn't know there were this many - but many are in Montana:

Toston (MT) 56 feet
Canyon Ferry (MT) 25 feet Canyon Ferry Lake
Hauser (MT) 80 feet Hauser Lake
Holter (MT) 124 feet Holter Lake
Black Eagle (MT) 13 feet
Rainbow (MT) 29 feet
Cochrane (MT) 59 feet
Ryan (MT) 61 feet
Morony (MT) 59 feet
Fort Peck (MT) 250 feet Fort Peck Lake
Garrison (ND) 210 feet Lake Sakakawea
Oahe (SD) 245 feet Lake Oahe
Big Bend (SD) 95 feet Lake Sharpe
Fort Randall (SD) 165 feet Lake Francis Case
Gavins Point (SD/NE) I74 feet Lewis and Clark Lake

DeWalt · Post by **DeWalt** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:49 am

So... Is anybody making an educated predictions about how high the river is going to get, as it comes through Omaha?

Post by **Brad** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:54 am

DeWalt wrote:So... Is anybody making an educated predictions about how high the river is going to get, as it comes through Omaha?

Yes, see Ben's link 5 posts above yours.

Omababe · Post by **Omababe** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:07 am

I know that "stage" means the height of the river water, and that "flood stage" in Omaha is 29 feet.

What is that 29 feet measured from? Is it the bottom of the river or what?

TIA.

Post by **Brad** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:18 am

Omababe wrote:What is that 29 feet measured from? Is it the bottom of the river or what?

is the level of the water surface above an established zero level at a given location. The zero level can be arbitrary, but is usually close to the bottom of the stream or river.

DeWalt · Post by **DeWalt** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:18 am

thenewguy wrote:
Ben wrote:here is a link to the Army Corps of Engineers map I was referencing http://www.nwo.usace.army.mil/html/op-e ... age_03.jpg This shows the expected flooding once they ramp the gavins point release up to full bore (150,000 fps). There will be some major flooding around the area, including the 2+ feet that I was referring to at RFP. This is expected to be 100 yr+ flooding....

Another major concern, and I'm surprised the OWH hasn't done a piece on this yet, is Eppley. If you look at the map that shows the airfield, they're expected to get some major flooding as well, even with the levees and pumps they have in place. It may be a struggle to keep the place open....

Only time will tell... Within 2 weeks they should have the release going full force.
Do they have a map that is more centered on council bluffs? I tried finding one but can't. I just wanna see if I'm gonna be under 0' of water...or 6'.

Looks like a pretty good chunk of Co Bluffs will probably be under water.

http://www.nwo.usace.army.mil/html/op-e ... age_04.jpg

DeWalt · Post by **DeWalt** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:20 am

Brad wrote:
DeWalt wrote:So... Is anybody making an educated predictions about how high the river is going to get, as it comes through Omaha?
Yes, see Ben's link 5 posts above yours.

Dang. Looks like Carter Lake & Co Bluffs are going to be suffering!

Omababe · Post by **Omababe** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:23 am

Brad wrote:
Omababe wrote:What is that 29 feet measured from? Is it the bottom of the river or what?

is the level of the water surface above an established zero level at a given location. The zero level can be arbitrary, but is usually close to the bottom of the stream or river.

Thank you. That is kind of what I figured but nobody here knew off hand.

Post by **Brad** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:36 am

DeWalt wrote:Dang. Looks like Carter Lake & Co Bluffs are going to be suffering!

The cross hatched area on the Council Bluffs Map means that it is protected by a levee. I am guessing the colors represent what will happen if the Levee fails. I think if Council Bluffs were getting ready to flood, we would see a lot more TV coverage than we are seeing now.

DeWalt · Post by **DeWalt** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:41 am

Brad wrote:
DeWalt wrote:Dang. Looks like Carter Lake & Co Bluffs are going to be suffering!
The cross hatched area on the Council Bluffs Map means that it is protected by a levee. I am guessing the colors represent what will happen if the Levee fails. I think if Council Bluffs were getting ready to flood, we would see a lot more TV coverage than we are seeing now.

Ahhh... I thought I heard, on the news, that they were evacuating the Lake Manawa area homes. Maybe that was just a "prepare to evacuate" thing.

cdub · Post by **cdub** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:45 am

I thought that map wasn't very good either. It will either flood or won't, both shouldn't be shown on the same map.

OmahaBen · Post by **OmahaBen** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:46 am

cdub wrote:I thought that map wasn't very good either. It will either flood or won't, both shouldn't be shown on the same map.

It shows the various flood plains, then marks out the areas protected by levies.

It's not that confusing.

Stargazer · Post by **Stargazer** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:40 pm

My understanding is that the river crest time will be over some -2- weeks... these levees are going to be under some serious pressure... I'd say it's good to know both what is 'protected'... and what stands to be under water absent that protection.

S33 · Post by **S33** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:09 pm

Stargazer wrote:My understanding is that the river crest time will be over some -2- weeks... these levees are going to be under some serious pressure... I'd say it's good to know both what is 'protected'... and what stands to be under water absent that protection.

Kinda what I was thinking. Both sides of the metro could be royally |expletive| if these levees don't hold. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities to think the CWS may not happen.

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:18 pm

S33 wrote:
Stargazer wrote:My understanding is that the river crest time will be over some -2- weeks... these levees are going to be under some serious pressure... I'd say it's good to know both what is 'protected'... and what stands to be under water absent that protection.
Kinda what I was thinking. Both sides of the metro could be royally |expletive| if these levees don't hold. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities to think the CWS may not happen.

Do you think many officials have been under stating the situation then? The levees are at 42 feet and so far they have only come out and said it would crest at about 34-36 feet. I mean if the levees fail then all bets are off, but there are more examples of levees doing their job than there are of them breaking. Maybe I am overconfident, but it seems like it will be pretty much business as usual for Omaha.

HuskerDave · Post by **HuskerDave** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:18 pm

The latest I read on the OWH is that we're 1 foot over "flood stage," which doesn't mean a lot; but water levels are expected to increase another 5 to 6 feet. I'm pretty sure that means we kiss the Anchor Inn goodbye, and there will be a lot of other areas underwater. Downtown Omaha should be OK, but I'd be worried if I lived on the Council Bluffs side of the area. The OWH says the levee at Eppley is already holding back water above the ground level. A breach there could close the airport for a lengthy cleanup.

Maybe this will wind up being no big deal; but I can't help but think that the upstream releases will put us within one big rainfall of pushing the defenses to their limits.

Post by **Brad** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:21 pm

The anchor inn built a levee around the building with two lines Jersey Barriers set three feet apart and filled in the middle with a plastic liner and dirt.

S33 · Post by **S33** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:29 pm

iamjacobm wrote: Do you think many officials have been under stating the situation then? The levees are at 42 feet and so far they have only come out and said it would crest at about 34-36 feet. I mean if the levees fail then all bets are off, but there are more examples of levees doing their job than there are of them breaking. Maybe I am overconfident, but it seems like it will be pretty much business as usual for Omaha.

I know about as much on this subject as I know about botany, but after New Orleans, I think we can all be sure that levees built decades ago aren't to be trusted. There's only so much dirt that can hold back that much water.

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:36 pm

S33 wrote:
iamjacobm wrote: Do you think many officials have been under stating the situation then? The levees are at 42 feet and so far they have only come out and said it would crest at about 34-36 feet. I mean if the levees fail then all bets are off, but there are more examples of levees doing their job than there are of them breaking. Maybe I am overconfident, but it seems like it will be pretty much business as usual for Omaha.
I know about as much on this subject as I know about botany, but after New Orleans, I think we can all be sure that levees built decades ago aren't to be trusted. There's only so much dirt that can hold back that much water.

I am in the same boat as you I just know what they have told us. They are saying the levees are structurally sound and have checked them everyday, but it is never a given. Maybe I am just seeing it has glass half full. I do think the most vulnerable part of the city seems to be Eppley and that would trow a wrench in a lot of plans if that floods.

Stargazer · Post by **Stargazer** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:02 pm

Oh yeah... and there are no levees surrounding Fort Calhoun... and the Corps' 'inundation' map shows them under at least 4 feet of water... there could be a major national story brewing here... yet the national media doesn't seem to be picking up on it yet. I have a friend who's an engineer up there and seems to be REAL nervous right now... and they just recently went through an exercise checking their preparedness for a 500 year flood in the aftermath of the tsunami.

Post by **Brad** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:23 pm

Stargazer wrote:Oh yeah... and there are no levees surrounding Fort Calhoun... and the Corps' 'inundation' map shows them under at least 4 feet of water... there could be a major national story brewing here... yet the national media doesn't seem to be picking up on it yet. I have a friend who's an engineer up there and seems to be REAL nervous right now... and they just recently went through an exercise checking their preparedness for a 500 year flood in the aftermath of the tsunami.

FYI, the Reactor is shut down right now for refueling. Its been down for several weeks now. Not sure how that effects things?

Stargazer · Post by **Stargazer** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:31 pm

It's a good thing.

HuskerDave · Post by **HuskerDave** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:34 pm

Brad wrote:
Stargazer wrote:Oh yeah... and there are no levees surrounding Fort Calhoun... and the Corps' 'inundation' map shows them under at least 4 feet of water... there could be a major national story brewing here... yet the national media doesn't seem to be picking up on it yet. I have a friend who's an engineer up there and seems to be REAL nervous right now... and they just recently went through an exercise checking their preparedness for a 500 year flood in the aftermath of the tsunami.
FYI, the Reactor is shut down right now for refueling. Its been down for several weeks now. Not sure how that effects things?

I suspect there are still spent fuel rods on site that need to be kept cool. Nuclear facilities are intentionally built near bodies of water to have that source of cool water for that purpose. That's why the loss of electric power to the pumps was such a big deal in Japan.

The timing of the preparedness exercises at Ft. Calhoun couldn't have been more timely. I strongly believe that the folks up there have everything in hand.

Post by **Brad** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:23 pm

Someone just said on that Radio that they are still skiing in Aspen! That's still a lot of water to work its way down here!

Coyote · Post by **Coyote** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:27 pm

There are several places still open with a lot of snow pack.

Post by **nebugeater** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:45 pm

iamjacobm wrote:
S33 wrote:
iamjacobm wrote: Do you think many officials have been under stating the situation then? The levees are at 42 feet and so far they have only come out and said it would crest at about 34-36 feet. I mean if the levees fail then all bets are off, but there are more examples of levees doing their job than there are of them breaking. Maybe I am overconfident, but it seems like it will be pretty much business as usual for Omaha.
I know about as much on this subject as I know about botany, but after New Orleans, I think we can all be sure that levees built decades ago aren't to be trusted. There's only so much dirt that can hold back that much water.
I am in the same boat as you I just know what they have told us. They are saying the levees are structurally sound and have checked them everyday, but it is never a given. Maybe I am just seeing it has glass half full. I do think the most vulnerable part of the city seems to be Eppley and that would trow a wrench in a lot of plans if that floods.

I think the most vulnerable part of the City is the waste treatment plant. The levee ends near there and if that is taken out the whole metro will feel the effect. Airport are is a close #2

Stargazer · Post by **Stargazer** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:30 pm

HuskerDave... I know one of the engineers that work up there (kind of ironic... another astronomy buff... who's responsible for powering our light pollution)... he's the smartest guy I know. I too... have full confidence that Fort Calhoun is in good hands.

Coyote · Post by **Coyote** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:38 pm

It May Be Too Late To Get Flood Insurance
30-Day Waiting Period Disappointing For Worried Homeowners

KETV wrote:A typical homeowner’s policy does not cover flooding. A separate policy must be purchased through the government’s flood insurance program. "Not all insurance companies carry it, so you have to check with your insurance agent to find out,” McBride said. Chances are it’s too late because there’s a 30-day waiting period.

Insurance agents also received a letter from FEMA on May 17 stating that “we do not insure a loss directly or indirectly caused by a flood that is already in progress.”

Post by **Brad** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:50 am

Per a report on the Omaha/Council Bluffs railfan group, the Amtrak Train Bypassed Omaha this morning. It got to Ashland then headed south down and around Omaha.

nebugeater told me that they had to remove some track yesterday in south Omaha to build a levee, however that is not the only option for Amtrak to get out of Omaha. They could have gone across the bridge in Omaha on the UP, then back on to the BNSF and south to Pacific Junction.

My guess is that once the big flood gets here, Amtrak #5 and #6 are going to shut down completely. The BNSF is already closed in South Omaha, and it will be closed in Pacific Junction when the water gets here. The UP will probably be closed between Missouri Valley and Council Bluffs. I heard the Amtrak will not Use the Canadian National out of Council Bluffs. The only other Option would be the IAIS out of Council Bluffs, but I am guessing that line is going to be really busy with detours and that is not a fast line to begin with.

Nothing official, but Omaha may be without Amtrak Service this summer.

Omababe · Post by **Omababe** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:56 am

Brad wrote:Nothing official, but Omaha may be without Amtrak Service this summer.

I was always under the impression that Omaha has been without passenger rail service since the 1970s or so ...

Post by **Brad** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:03 am

Omababe wrote:
Brad wrote:Nothing official, but Omaha may be without Amtrak Service this summer.
I was always under the impression that Omaha has been without passenger rail service since the 1970s or so ...

We have been without good passenger service since then...

The Denver bound Amtrak gets in to Omaha Just before Midnight and the Chicago bound Amtrak gets in to Omaha around 6am.

DeWalt · Post by **DeWalt** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:38 am

Brad wrote:
Omababe wrote:
Brad wrote:Nothing official, but Omaha may be without Amtrak Service this summer.
I was always under the impression that Omaha has been without passenger rail service since the 1970s or so ...
We have been without good passenger service since then...

The Denver bound Amtrak gets in to Omaha Just before Midnight and the Chicago bound Amtrak gets in to Omaha around 6am.

I rode Amtrak to Denver & back about a year ago. Left here at about 11:00 PM and got to Denver about 7:00 AM. Perfectly fine experience, except that next time I'll take a bed pillow & light blanket.

benj4253 · Post by **benj4253** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:06 am

The Council Bluffs Public Library, which houses the photo archives of the Daily Nonpariel, has posted dozens of pictures of the flood of 1952 to their Flickr page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cbpl/

The photos are mostly of Council Bluffs, but there are several of Omaha as well. Here is a good one of Omaha

Also, if you click into the “Floods and Fires” set, there are pictures of the 1881 flood.

Garrett · Post by **Garrett** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:43 pm

Well I'm up in North Eastern Nebraska today near Norfolk and all it is right now is the news channels trying to get people ready for the flood. Dakota Dunes is being evacuated and waters seem to be rising quickly.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:51 pm

My family in Percival, Iowa (about 40 minutes south on I-29) have emptied their home with no plans to return after the floods come. For a small town like that I would expect it to destroy what little is left there.

Allan_Love_Jr · Post by **Allan_Love_Jr** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:48 pm

1046 AM CDT FRI JUN 3 2011

FORECAST INFORMATION FOR
MISSOURI RIVER AT GAVINS POINT DAM.
* AT 12AM FRIDAY THE STAGE WAS 1206 FEET.
* FLOOD STAGE IS 1210 FEET.
* CURRENT INFLOW IS AROUND 83000 CFS.
* CURRENT RELEASES ARE AROUND 83700 CFS.
* FORECAST RELEASES ARE FOR 120000 CFS BY JUNE 6...INCREASING TO
NEAR 150000 CFS BY JUNE 15.

Post by **nebugeater** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:04 pm

A couple of shots from June 3 around the River

Storm water outflow north of the South Omaha bridge. This is usually dry other than during a storm event.

Missouri River Flooding Near Omaha by nebugeater, on Flickr

North on I 29 a ways before the Cresant exit

Missouri River Flooding Near Omaha by nebugeater, on Flickr

Coming over the bridge into downtown Omaha

Missouri River Flooding Near Omaha by nebugeater, on Flickr