Missouri River

[Coyote]

More Pumps Near Eppley; Prisoners, Homeless Would Be Evacuated

That from the city at a morning briefing Monday. Assistant Fire Chief Dan Stolinski said work is being done to keep access to Eppley via Abbott Drive and monitoring of the water levels continues there.

Just where would you pump it to? Not back to the river.[/b]

[nebugeater]

More Pumps Near Eppley; Prisoners, Homeless Would Be Evacuated

That from the city at a morning briefing Monday. Assistant Fire Chief Dan Stolinski said work is being done to keep access to Eppley via Abbott Drive and monitoring of the water levels continues there.

Just where would you pump it to? Not back to the river.[/b]

Absolutely back to the river. Almost all of the flood / Storm water pumps set up along the river front pump seepage, ground water, and storm water back over the levee and to the river.

[Coyote]

Absolutely back to the river. Almost all of the flood / Storm water pumps set up along the river front pump seepage, ground water, and storm water back over the levee and to the river.

So then - when we hear of water sewage being seaped back into the river - what does that really mean down stream?

[nebugeater]

Absolutely back to the river. Almost all of the flood / Storm water pumps set up along the river front pump seepage, ground water, and storm water back over the levee and to the river.

So then - when we hear of water sewage being seaped back into the river - what does that really mean down stream?

Nothing good. Have to rely of dilution. Handling waste like 75 - 100 years ago. I dead here from some enviomental expert on KFAB a few mornings ago that the river could handle the ratio going in. Think of the areas down stream that get their water supply from the river. I am sure their are up stream doing or preparing to do the same thing.

[Bryan1117]

I guess I was under the impression (and swore I heard many, many times), that because of the existing snow-pack in the west/northwest of us, that these river levels would be around through the fall months. I also know that some residents from Hamburg north to Pacific Junction/Plattsmouth have been told they are likely not going to be able to return to their homes until after the first of the year.

I am thinking the same thing... there are still FEET of snow in the Northern Rocky Mountains including Montana, and these same areas continue to receive fairly heavy rainfalls. Also the Dakotas the last few days have seen localized bouts of very heavy rain, and it appears the active weather pattern across the Midwest is going to continue.

Figuring all this in, it would appear to me that this flood event will definitely last the summer. I can understand the "peak" levels would not be sustained for more than a week or two, but I haven't personally seen anything from Army COE that states when the flows will be reduced down from the 150,000 CFS at Gavins... apparently the Fort Peck dam in Montana is increasing their flows even more - despite the COE saying that this will not affect the downstream dams.

There is still a lot more to this whole saga I believe, which is not a good thing.

[thenewguy]

they are temporarily reducing flows at Fort Randall

http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/news/lo ... 4bf81.html

YANKTON, S.D. -- Flood water discharges from Fort Randall Dam will be slowed to combat a rising water pool at Gavins Point Dam near Yankton, a move officials say is not expected to affect peak releases from Missouri River reservoirs.

Jody Farhat, chief of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Missouri River Basin Water Management, said releases from the dam west of Wagner, S.D., were held to 137,000 cubic feet per second Friday and will be held to that rate again today.

I can't find where i read it, but they said that the 150,000 cfs would stop by August 1-15th. Said that it wouldn't take long (few weeks) for river levels to see a substantial decrease.

[Stargazer]

Is that supposed to sound quick?? 1 1/2 to 2 months at that rate!

Oh, and things continue to get interesting...

http://omaha.com/article/20110613/NEWS0 ... -tank-farm

The petroleum terminal that supplies the Omaha area with a significant portion of its gasoline shut down on Sunday as a result of flooding.
Bruce Heine, spokesman for Magellan Midstream Partners, said the company suspended the filling of trucks after flooding made conditions unsafe for workers and put the assets there at risk.

[almighty_tuna]

Yesterday morning...

[ThatGuy]

Holy smokes! How far is it from the bottom of the walkway to the water? The kids and I were on the sidewalk below Sunday evening and there was water underneath, but not what I would consider a lot.

[almighty_tuna]

there's plenty of room under the pier, at least 5ft, but I haven't gotten out a ruler or anything. I don't want to jinx anything, but if the water actually makes it to the bottom of the pier, there will bigger problems than just that!

[Stargazer]

Is there water on the landing below Rick's by now then?

[almighty_tuna]

Will find out today. i'm going on a walk this afternoon to film and shoot (my job rocks).

[ThatGuy]

We weren't directly under the bridge because there was probably a foot of water underneath. We were more like 30-40 feet south on the trail. Your picture makes it look like the river went up quite a bit in 16 hours. Not sure if it did or it's just the vantage point. I tried to upload a pic for comparison, but couldn't get it to work. I will be anxious to see what you get this afternoon.

[S33]

I don't suppose anyone has heard whether or not the Platte River bridges on Hwy 75 or Hwy 50 in Louisville will be affected by the flooding?

[Swift]

How is Eppley doing? I'm supposed to fly in tomorrow.

[HuskerDave]

How is Eppley doing? I'm supposed to fly in tomorrow.

So far, so good.

[almighty_tuna]

A little river humor from yesterday...

I'd say it's about up to the base of the Y split on the pier support.

[Stargazer]

My wife and I were up at the Lewis and Clark Monument on Saturday (no surprise, the place was overrun by people checking out the valley below)... noticed at the airport, they were moving a LOT of dirt from an area off the south edge of the runway to the east/southeast portion of the property levee... was behind the trees though, couldn't see exactly where they were dropping it.

[DeWalt]

I hope this works.

A video shot buy a guy landing at Eppley. Looks like he posted it on YouTube on Monday.

[youtube][/youtube]

[S33]

Judging by that video, there is no way in heck that flood water will not be over the runways in a couple week's time.

[RFO]

The northern part of Lot D at Qwest is starting to fill up with water coming up through the storm sewer.

[Stargazer]

I'm with S33... I'm starting to think we're on the verge of a major catastrophe in Council Bluffs and Omaha.

[Omababe]

The northern part of Lot D at Qwest is starting to fill up with water coming up through the storm sewer.

LOL! The revenge of the ghost of Johnny Rosenblatt!

[ThatGuy]

I'm with S33... I'm starting to think we're on the verge of a major catastrophe in Council Bluffs and Omaha.

That makes 3 of us. From what I've seen and read it would actually shock me if the airport doesn't flood.

[DeWalt]

I'm with S33... I'm starting to think we're on the verge of a major catastrophe in Council Bluffs and Omaha.

I'm afraid you're both right. I don't think we have any idea what kind of man-made catastrophe this is going to turn in to.

After being flooded for (what they're saying will be) several months, will I-29 NOT sustain major substrate damage? Would it be surprising if they had to ENTIRELY rebuild vast stretches of it?

[S33]

I'm with S33... I'm starting to think we're on the verge of a major catastrophe in Council Bluffs and Omaha.

I'm afraid you're both right. I don't think we have any idea what kind of man-made catastrophe this is going to turn in to.

After being flooded for (what they're saying will be) several months, will I-29 NOT sustain major substrate damage? Would it be surprising if they had to ENTIRELY rebuild vast stretches of it?

You would think. Imagine how many people this will displace from jobs, too. I know an awful lot of people in western Iowa who commute for work to Omaha daily, and they are praying that I-80 from lake manawa to Omaha stays open... even so, traffic is going to be a |expletive| nightmare through all the detour routs.

Myself, I am counting on hwy 75 bridge to stay open, or I have to move.

[OmahaBen]

I don't think we have any idea what kind of man-made catastrophe this is going to turn in to.

Just curious, but I've seen this oft repeated in newspapers, especially by Hamburg citizens. Without saying the Corps. has managed the river perfectly, just what were they supposed to do?

I understand people want to have someone or something to blame, but with or without those dams, the water would still be coming. We're talking about months of high river levels. Even if the army corps of engineers had opened the gates more fully earlier on, that merely delays things, it doesn't prevent them. You can't drain what isn't there yet. You can free up some reservoir room by letting the water go, but if a wall of water is coming down the line, that wouldn't be enough to stop it. We'd still be hitting the same river levels or worse, just maybe delayed by a brief period of time as the water first fills the reservoirs before continuing on.

I also don't understand how they were supposed to predict Montana getting a year's worth of rain in a week, but that's just me.

[Big E]

I've also been a little curious as to how some of these places that are being flooded by the corps' apparent mess-ups were supposed to have even existed in the first place without man's interference.

Not saying there ain't blame to go around, of course.

[S33]

I think it's a pretty simple concept, really. By lowering the level of the reservoirs earlier, they could have managed this flow instead of dumping 150,000cubic ft per second all in a few weeks time. I mean, isn't that what those dams were designed to do?

Perhaps they didn't have the foresight that this would happen, though.

[Big E]

I think it's a pretty simple concept, really. By lowering the level of the reservoirs earlier, they could have managed this flow instead of dumping 150,000cubic ft per second all in a few weeks time.

Perhaps they didn't have the foresight that this would happen, though.

My point was how many of the places that are being flooded now would even have been able to be developed over the years in the first place?

[S33]

I think it's a pretty simple concept, really. By lowering the level of the reservoirs earlier, they could have managed this flow instead of dumping 150,000cubic ft per second all in a few weeks time.

Perhaps they didn't have the foresight that this would happen, though.

My point was how many of the places that are being flooded now would even have been able to be developed over the years in the first place?

I was more responding to Ben's statement, but yes, you are right. When Lewis and Clark came across the Missouri on their expedition, the Missouri was miles wide. By building levees, dikes, and dams, they were able to manage the water flow and allow these flood-plain communities to sprout up.

However, by narrowing the rivers, they are very susceptible to overflow when the dams are managed incorrectly, or when there is an unmanageable amount of precipitation.

But still, the dams weren't adjusted until we hit crisis mode - or it would seem.

[OmahaBen]

I think it's a pretty simple concept, really. By lowering the level of the reservoirs earlier, they could have managed this flow instead of dumping 150,000cubic ft per second all in a few weeks time. I mean, isn't that what those dams were designed to do?

Perhaps they didn't have the foresight that this would happen, though.

Lewis & Clark Lake, the reservoir behind Gavins Point Dam, has a capacity of 492,000 acre feet, or 21,431,520,000 cubic feet.

At 150,000 cubic feet per second, the dam is sending 12,960,000,000 cubic feet of water downstream every day. Essentially, the entire volume of the lake is being sent downstream every 2 days. At that release level is supposed to last for months.

Say they had completely emptied the lake before this started (which would've caused its own issues), and then let it gradually fill back up while releasing water so that after 2 months, it was at capacity again. That would save all of ~4200 cfs (4200 cfs * 60 sec/min * 60 min/hr * 24 hr/day * 60 days = 21,772,800,000 cubic feet of water). So they'd still be releasing 145,800 cfs from the dam over those 2 months, which is about where the river is right now.

The reservoirs would barely make a dent into this amount of water. it's akin to trying to prevent a burst water main from flooding your basement by draining all the toilets so they can hold the water.

Edit: I apologize if my math's off since I didn't show all my work, but I think my point stands).

[Stargazer]

Hamburg has showed up as a blip on the national news scene... story overall still hardly on the back page.

Once upon a time... the story was worthy of a visit from Edward R. Murrow.

[S33]

Lewis & Clark Lake, the reservoir behind Gavins Point Dam, has a capacity of 492,000 acre feet, or 21,431,520,000 cubic feet.

At 150,000 cubic feet per second, the dam is sending 12,960,000,000 cubic feet of water downstream every day. Essentially, the entire volume of the lake is being sent downstream every 2 days. At that release level is supposed to last for months.

Say they had completely emptied the lake before this started (which would've caused its own issues), and then let it gradually fill back up while releasing water so that after 2 months, it was at capacity again. That would save all of ~4200 cfs (4200 cfs * 60 sec/min * 60 min/hr * 24 hr/day * 60 days = 21,772,800,000 cubic feet of water). So they'd still be releasing 145,800 cfs from the dam over those 2 months, which is about where the river is right now.

The reservoirs would barely make a dent into this amount of water. it's akin to trying to prevent a burst water main from flooding your basement by draining all the toilets so they can hold the water.

Edit: I apologize if my math's off since I didn't show all my work, but I think my point stands).

Well thanks, Bill Nye!

Actually, I do appreciate the analysis, and if that is the case, we were all just destined to be screwed this year. Next question, why cant we just flood the entire state of North Dakota? :)

Edit: I apologize if my math's off since I didn't show all my work, but I think my point stands).

Well then you get a zero on this paper because you must have cheated. Only cheaters never show their work!

[ThatGuy]

I read a great article the other day on the history of Missouri River dams, but can't seem to recall where I read it. I will try to find it and post for anybody that would like to read it. In the mean time, think about this scenario. I can't say it hasn't crossed my mind a few times over the last few weeks. I mean, were those dams designed for this much pressure for an extended amount of time?

http://www.stltoday.com/news/opinion/ar ... 845a4.html

[RFO]

Remember the flooding of the Mississippi River this spring? The Corp. probably wasn't too keen on the idea of increasing the flow of the Missouri into the Mississippi. Had their crystal ball been working they would have known there would be record rainfalls in Montana in May. Oh well, we have to blame somebody.

[S33]

 Oh well, we have to blame somebody.

I'm surprised we haven't blamed Bush yet, or did Katrina exhaust his godly weather powers?

[DeWalt]

Well thanks, Bill Nye!

Actually, I do appreciate the analysis, and if that is the case, we were all just destined to be screwed this year. Next question, why cant we just flood the entire state of North Dakota? :)

Edit: I apologize if my math's off since I didn't show all my work, but I think my point stands).

Well then you get a zero on this paper because you must have cheated. Only cheaters never show their work!

That's a question I've heard floated around a lot lately. Why is it NOT acceptable to flood vast areas where almost nobody lives, yet it IS acceptable to flood hundreds of thousands of prime farm ground (watch the prices of grain skyrocket this fall!), flood entire towns, and displace tens of thousands of people.


Without question, this has been "the perfect storm" insofar as a lot of odd factors have converged all at once. But human error has definitely played a major role.

[DeWalt]

I don't think we have any idea what kind of man-made catastrophe this is going to turn in to.

Just curious, but I've seen this oft repeated in newspapers, especially by Hamburg citizens. Without saying the Corps. has managed the river perfectly, just what were they supposed to do?

I understand people want to have someone or something to blame, but with or without those dams, the water would still be coming. We're talking about months of high river levels. Even if the army corps of engineers had opened the gates more fully earlier on, that merely delays things, it doesn't prevent them. You can't drain what isn't there yet. You can free up some reservoir room by letting the water go, but if a wall of water is coming down the line, that wouldn't be enough to stop it. We'd still be hitting the same river levels or worse, just maybe delayed by a brief period of time as the water first fills the reservoirs before continuing on.

I also don't understand how they were supposed to predict Montana getting a year's worth of rain in a week, but that's just me.

It would have made no sense for them to just lower the level of ONE of the reservoirs. But they should have lowered the level at ALL of them, especially in light of the fact that they KNEW of record snowfalls & rains.

Lower the levels and KEEP THEM OPEN. All this water didn't just show up a couple weeks ago. It has been filling the reservoirs for MONTHS.

It doesn't take a genius to know that, when you START the wet season with all the reservoirs full, you're going to have problems.

[cp jay 07]

So is my flight on the 30th 100% Fuc#ed or just 50% fuc#ed right now?

I thinking of flying into Des Moines now.