Missouri River

Omaha_Gabe · Post by **Omaha_Gabe** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:12 pm

Coyote wrote:
TLGJames wrote:Anyone know the best route to KC next week with the closures?
Best travel routes out of Omaha

On Saturday, I took the route they listed on the site and you can tack on about another hour or more to your commute. Traffic was so slow!!!!

riceweb · Post by **riceweb** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:30 pm

I know it's a different river system, but my hometown of Minot, ND is getting a record crest 7 feet above the city's devastating 1969 flood due to recent rains.

I fear the magnitude of this year's flood problems may be underestimated here in Omaha/Council Bluffs.

Post by **Brad** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:38 pm

Flash Flood warning until 2am!

nativeomahan · Post by **nativeomahan** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:09 pm

Uffda wrote:Cant remember is this got posted here

The Mighty Missouri River defies the Army

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/news/opi ... 03286.html

This is freaking scary. As I listen to the pouring rain tonight.

nativeomahan · Post by **nativeomahan** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:11 pm

The Weather Channel has been reporting live from the east end of the Kerrey bridge this evening...until the lightning got too bad. They reported whitecaps on the river!

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:33 pm

Someone call Ernie Chambers!

ricko · Post by **ricko** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:05 am

For what it's worth.

I was talking to a client from Iowa tonight (work related stuff). His dad works for some Iowa agency responsible for evacuating people from Hamburg, Iowa. The 'dad' told my client that they were expecting the levies to fail on both sides of the river because they were not designed to sustain flood level waters for several weeks, and that "Omaha airport" would eventually be under 10 feet of water. I asked him if this was supposed to be a 'worst case scenario', and he said "no", this is what they're expecting.

cdub · Post by **cdub** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:07 am

Who is 'they'? Everyone recognizes the possibility but its not like the corp is 'expecting' this. There is no grand conspiracy here even though that makes it less fun to talk about.

Post by **Brad** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:51 am

Pleas Talk about the Missouri River Flooding... Enough of the Jokes!

DeWalt · Post by **DeWalt** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:20 am

Brad wrote:Pleas Talk about the Missouri River Flooding... Enough of the Jokes!

Frankly, I think we're in a lot of trouble - and we're just now seeing the tip of the iceberg.

Read this morning in the paper that they're expecting the river to rise another 3' - 5'. I've also heard (though I don't know how reliable this is) that Gavins Point Dam has actually moved. It's shifting. If that's true, a collapse is very possible. And if that happens, well...

Post by **Brad** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:24 am

DeWalt wrote:Read this morning in the paper that they're expecting the river to rise another 3' - 5'. I've also heard (though I don't know how reliable this is) that Gavins Point Dam has actually moved. It's shifting. If that's true, a collapse is very possible. And if that happens, well...

3 to 5 Feet? Have a link to that story?

Where did you hear about the dam moving?

Melissa · Post by **Melissa** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:24 am

Another thing to keep in mind is that it is still snowing up in the mountains in Montana. When the 400% above average snow cover starts to melt, it's going to get messy.

DeWalt · Post by **DeWalt** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:35 am

Brad wrote:
DeWalt wrote:Read this morning in the paper that they're expecting the river to rise another 3' - 5'. I've also heard (though I don't know how reliable this is) that Gavins Point Dam has actually moved. It's shifting. If that's true, a collapse is very possible. And if that happens, well...
3 to 5 Feet? Have a link to that story?

Where did you hear about the dam moving?

http://www.kptm.com/story/14742706/miss ... ected=true

The "dam shifting" thing came up in conversation when I was hunkered down in a convenience store, waiting out last night's storm, up north of Fremont. That's why I'm questioning its reliability.

That said, I do think we're headed for flooding of epic proportions. None of these levees were made to handle MONTHS of massive flooding. A couple days to a couple weeks, maybe. Months? No.

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:38 am

I really is hard to get a grasp on the situation with all the hearsay flying around.

HuskerDave · Post by **HuskerDave** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:38 am

DeWalt wrote:
Brad wrote:
DeWalt wrote:Read this morning in the paper that they're expecting the river to rise another 3' - 5'. I've also heard (though I don't know how reliable this is) that Gavins Point Dam has actually moved. It's shifting. If that's true, a collapse is very possible. And if that happens, well...
3 to 5 Feet? Have a link to that story?

Where did you hear about the dam moving?
http://www.kptm.com/story/14742706/miss ... ected=true

The "dam shifting" thing came up in conversation when I was hunkered down in a convenience store, waiting out last night's storm, up north of Fremont. That's why I'm questioning its reliability.

That said, I do think we're headed for flooding of epic proportions. None of these levees were made to handle MONTHS of massive flooding. A couple days to a couple weeks, maybe. Months? No.

I hate to question the story right out of the box, but if they don't know it's the Army Corps, not "core" of Engineers, it's hard to take the rest of the article seriously. I also note that it's an updated story from May. It's possible the 4-6 foot increase was based on the expectation and levels then existing.

Linkin5 · Post by **Linkin5** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:42 am

DeWalt wrote:
Brad wrote:
DeWalt wrote:Read this morning in the paper that they're expecting the river to rise another 3' - 5'. I've also heard (though I don't know how reliable this is) that Gavins Point Dam has actually moved. It's shifting. If that's true, a collapse is very possible. And if that happens, well...
3 to 5 Feet? Have a link to that story?

Where did you hear about the dam moving?
http://www.kptm.com/story/14742706/miss ... ected=true

The "dam shifting" thing came up in conversation when I was hunkered down in a convenience store, waiting out last night's storm, up north of Fremont. That's why I'm questioning its reliability.

That said, I do think we're headed for flooding of epic proportions. None of these levees were made to handle MONTHS of massive flooding. A couple days to a couple weeks, maybe. Months? No.

Dewalt, that article is from May with a river depth at the time of 28 ft, do you have any new articles that say its going to go up another 3 to 5 feet from its current depth of 33 feet?

Post by **Brad** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:42 am

DeWalt wrote: http://www.kptm.com/story/14742706/miss ... ected=true

EDIT... Just saw Linkin's post post...

DeWalt wrote:The "dam shifting" thing came up in conversation when I was hunkered down in a convenience store, waiting out last night's storm, up north of Fremont. That's why I'm questioning its reliability.

That said, I do think we're headed for flooding of epic proportions. None of these levees were made to handle MONTHS of massive flooding. A couple days to a couple weeks, maybe. Months? No.

I have a REALLY REALLY hard time believing the dam is shifting. Most dams have emergency spillways. I am guessing those would be opened if the dame was moving.

This flood seems to be spilling more rumors than water at this point.

I think we are already at epic flood levels. I don't think we will see this again in our lifetime.

DeWalt · Post by **DeWalt** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:44 am

iamjacobm wrote:

I really is hard to get a grasp on the situation with all the hearsay flying around.

Plenty of hearsay, yes.

But here is a simple fact: DIRT levees - when saturated for a long enough period of time - WILL collapse.

We've seen it happen by Hamburg, and it is happening by Brulo.

The majority of all the levees along the river are dirt.

DeWalt · Post by **DeWalt** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:46 am

Linkin5 wrote:
DeWalt wrote:
Brad wrote:
DeWalt wrote:Read this morning in the paper that they're expecting the river to rise another 3' - 5'. I've also heard (though I don't know how reliable this is) that Gavins Point Dam has actually moved. It's shifting. If that's true, a collapse is very possible. And if that happens, well...
3 to 5 Feet? Have a link to that story?

Where did you hear about the dam moving?
http://www.kptm.com/story/14742706/miss ... ected=true

The "dam shifting" thing came up in conversation when I was hunkered down in a convenience store, waiting out last night's storm, up north of Fremont. That's why I'm questioning its reliability.

That said, I do think we're headed for flooding of epic proportions. None of these levees were made to handle MONTHS of massive flooding. A couple days to a couple weeks, maybe. Months? No.
Dewalt, that article is from May with a river depth at the time of 28 ft, do you have any new articles that say its going to go up another 3 to 5 feet from its current depth of 33 feet?

This article is actually a repost. It is on the KPTM website today.

I apologize for not seeing that it was a repost of a mid-May article.

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:52 am

No I agree that there is a very real possibility of collapse, but I guess my thoughts on it are the river is at 33.89 feet. The corp are saying it should crest at 34 feet with normal rainfall and 36 is if this heavy rain year keeps up. So even if it gets to 35 there are 7 feet of levee above the crest. Now obviously it is possible that it breaks b/c it is earthen. Most shots of the levees breaking I have seen had the water were a few feet from the top, and the top is obviously the weakest part of the levee.

I am not betting either way, but my gut says they will hold this summer. I will be the first to say I was wrong if they don't though.

DeWalt · Post by **DeWalt** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:00 am

iamjacobm wrote:No I agree that there is a very real possibility of collapse, but I guess my thoughts on it are the river is at 33.89 feet. The corp are saying it should crest at 34 feet with normal rainfall and 36 is if this heavy rain year keeps up. So even if it gets to 35 there are 7 feet of levee above the crest. Now obviously it is possible that it breaks b/c it is earthen. Most shots of the levees breaking I have seen had the water were a few feet from the top, and the top is obviously the weakest part of the levee.

I am not betting either way, but my gut says they will hold this summer. I will be the first to say I was wrong if they don't though.

You won't have to admit you're wrong, if they collapse.

What levees are you referring to, saying there are 7 additional feet of levee about the 35 foot crest?

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:02 am

Anyone have a topographical of the downtown area if case "worst case" hits?

ie, how high does this thing have to get to flood more than some riverfront parking lots and maybe ConAgra's fountain?

More importantly, how long before there's water on the 4th floor at 15th and Jones?

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:03 am

The Omaha levees are at 42 feet I believe.

DeWalt · Post by **DeWalt** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:04 am

Big E wrote:Anyone have a topographical of the downtown area in case "worst case" hits?

ie, how high does this thing have to get to flood more than some riverfront parking lots and maybe ConAgra's fountain?

More importantly, how long before there's water on the 4th floor at 15th and Jones?

About 2:00 PM this afternoon...

Post by **Brad** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:04 am

There was one a week ago, not sure where it went. Downtown was fine. The problems were east of 10th or North of Cuming. The only south of Dodge problem was down by the old power plant.

DeWalt · Post by **DeWalt** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:05 am

iamjacobm wrote:The Omaha levees are at 42 feet I believe.

Gotcha. Thanks.

There are levees elsewhere that have nowhere near 7 feet left.

Also, the width of the river ends up being constricted, coming through Omaha. Gotta wonder what kind of pressure that builds.

Post by **Brad** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:06 am

Big E wrote:Anyone have a topographical of the downtown area if case "worst case" hits?

ie, how high does this thing have to get to flood more than some riverfront parking lots and maybe ConAgra's fountain?

More importantly, how long before there's water on the 4th floor at 15th and Jones?

The City/County also has 2' contours on the GIS site under the layers:
http://www.dcgis.org/dogis/

Linkin5 · Post by **Linkin5** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:07 am

iamjacobm wrote:The Omaha levees are at 42 feet I believe.

Do you know what the levee is at Playland Park in CB? I have a feeling that thing is gonna bust.

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:12 am

Linkin5 wrote:
iamjacobm wrote:The Omaha levees are at 42 feet I believe.
Do you know what the levee is at Playland Park in CB? I have a feeling that thing is gonna bust.

I want to say 40 feet, but I can't remember for sure.

gkudrna · Post by **gkudrna** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:42 am

Read this morning in the paper that they're expecting the river to rise another 3' - 5'. I've also heard (though I don't know how reliable this is) that Gavins Point Dam has actually moved. It's shifting. If that's true, a collapse is very possible. And if that happens, well...

My parents live about 10 miles northwest of the dam. I was up there over the weekend and we went to the dam to see what the flow looked like. I have been over that dam hundreds of times and other than a whole lot of water coming through the spillways, nothing else seems out of the ordinary.

There have been tons of rumors floating around even in Yankton. One is that they were closing the road over the dam because the dam was shaking. In fact, they have been refurbishing the cranes on top of the dam and the road has been closed Monday - Friday until 5:00pm since before this flooding started and it is open on weekends. It seems, people (just like the media) would love to see a catastrophic failure of the dam. I don't put much weight to any of the rumors floating around.

The dam, unlike levees, was built to hold back a large amount of water. When I viewed the lake it did not seem all that much higher than I have seen it during past springs. In fact, the level of the lake has dropped since they began opening the spillways to the level it is at now. The next dam up, Fort Randal, has been holding at a lower CFS output and they plan to release more from that dam soon since the Lewis and Clark Reservoir has gone down a little.

One of the engineers at the dam goes to my parents church. He said that they do not think the dam is open to the full 150,000 cfs as of saturday. They think they still have a little more before they reach that. He also said that each gate on the spillways is open to about 8 feet.

Below the dam, the river is running high and the corp is working to maintain the banks. There is minimal flooding just below the lake, but the water has begun to back up into Lake Yankton which is a smaller lake just below the dam.

The Dam has turned into a huge tourist attraction up there and there are a lot of cars in the parking lot and along the road following the river. Just walking up to the dam you get dizzy because the water is moving so fast from the spillways. You get soaked just from the over spray and if you are not careful, you will get drenched by rouge waves hitting the wall below the parking lot, as my daughter found out. She was drenched.

So, to make a long story short, In my opinion the dam is fine and will remain so through this event.

HuskerDave · Post by **HuskerDave** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:49 am

Great post, GK. Thanks.

cdub · Post by **cdub** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:53 am

Brad wrote:
DeWalt wrote: http://www.kptm.com/story/14742706/miss ... ected=true
EDIT... Just saw Linkin's post post...

DeWalt wrote:The "dam shifting" thing came up in conversation when I was hunkered down in a convenience store, waiting out last night's storm, up north of Fremont. That's why I'm questioning its reliability.

That said, I do think we're headed for flooding of epic proportions. None of these levees were made to handle MONTHS of massive flooding. A couple days to a couple weeks, maybe. Months? No.
I have a REALLY REALLY hard time believing the dam is shifting. Most dams have emergency spillways. I am guessing those would be opened if the dame was moving.

This flood seems to be spilling more rumors than water at this point.

I think we are already at epic flood levels. I don't think we will see this again in our lifetime.

I listen to my NOAA weather radio a lot these days and they keep saying, "moderate flooding is occurring, and moderate flooding is forecast." I wonder what it takes to get past moderate.

HuskerDave · Post by **HuskerDave** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:07 pm

Has anyone gotten new pictures of the Lewis and Clark Landing area in the past few days? With the water level continuing to rise, it would be interesting to compare those to earlier pictures.

HuskerDave · Post by **HuskerDave** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:08 pm

cdub wrote:
I listen to my NOAA weather radio a lot these days and they keep saying, "moderate flooding is occurring, and moderate flooding is forecast." I wonder what it takes to get past moderate.

According to the National Weather Service, 40 feet, which is just .2 ft less than our historic high set in 1952.

HuskerDave · Post by **HuskerDave** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:09 pm

It's probably worth posting this again.

http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrogra ... ,1,1,1,1,1"

cdub · Post by **cdub** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:12 pm

HuskerDave wrote:
cdub wrote:
I listen to my NOAA weather radio a lot these days and they keep saying, "moderate flooding is occurring, and moderate flooding is forecast." I wonder what it takes to get past moderate.
According to the National Weather Service, 40 feet, which is just .2 ft less than our historic high set in 1952.

Maybe they are masters of the understated. Its moderate until its a record!

HuskerDave · Post by **HuskerDave** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:15 pm

cdub wrote:
HuskerDave wrote:
cdub wrote:
I listen to my NOAA weather radio a lot these days and they keep saying, "moderate flooding is occurring, and moderate flooding is forecast." I wonder what it takes to get past moderate.
According to the National Weather Service, 40 feet, which is just .2 ft less than our historic high set in 1952.
Maybe they are masters of the understated. Its moderate until its a record!

No kidding... I believe our actual flood wall level is right at 40 feet (I realize someone said 42 above). For what it's worth, the river is up a full foot in the past 24 hours, at 34.49 feet.

Oh, and it's been raining heavily across South Dakota for more than 24 hours; and parts of the Rockies got an extra 4 inches of snow yesterday.

Post by **nebugeater** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:41 pm

Levee is at 40 in Omaha.... or at least that is what we have based everything off of at work.

here is some text and a link to the web site that seems to back this up.

FLOOD IMPACTS
40 At this level the water nears the top of the federal levee.
36 Water reaches bottom of flood wall just north of Interstate 480. Bike path and low lying roads are also affected just east of Riverfront Drive north of pedestrian bridge.
32 I-680 West between the Mormon bridge and I-29 begins to flood. Also, I-29 between Crescent and Council Bluffs begins to flood.
29 Most parks and boat accesses near the river begin to flood.
28 Significant lowland flooding occurs in NP Dodge Park, Heartland of America Park, Playland Park, Fontenelle Forest and Haworth Park.
27 NP Dodge Park, Heartland of America Park, Playland Park, Fontenelle Forest begin to flood.
25 Haworth Park, located in Bellevue, begins to flood.

http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrogra ... ,1,1,1,1,1"

DeWalt · Post by **DeWalt** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:13 pm

HuskerDave wrote:No kidding... I believe our actual flood wall level is right at 40 feet (I realize someone said 42 above). For what it's worth, the river is up a full foot in the past 24 hours, at 34.49 feet.

Oh, and it's been raining heavily across South Dakota for more than 24 hours; and parts of the Rockies got an extra 4 inches of snow yesterday.

I was through the Fremont area yesterday. They've been pounded with heavy storms 2 nights in a row - probably 5"-6" of rain total. Creeks are all a flood stage, as is the Elkhorn River. It's all headed for the Mighty Mo, and quickly.

HuskerDave · Post by **HuskerDave** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:16 pm

I believe there is an ancient curse "May you live in interesting times."

a 500-year flood certainly qualifies. I hope it doesn't get any more interesting.