Official: North Downtown Discussion

[iamjacobm]

http://www.chicagolandrealestateforum.c ... y-council/

It will include an eight-story Hyatt Hotel with 137 rooms; an anchor pharmacy, home-improvement or grocery store; 135 apartment units; 145,200 square feet of retail space and close to 400 underground parking spaces.

Exactly what North Downtown needs.

[Brad]

North downtown is building character

http://www.omaha.com/article/20110124/M ... -character

More than 30 new businesses have popped up in Omaha's north downtown since the Qwest Center Omaha signaled the area's growth potential.

There's room for dozens more, and there's the rub:

It's a 60-square-block area with some big-footprint features — a new baseball stadium, the Qwest Center, some industrial buildings — and lots of open space in between. That makes development of the area different from other pieces of Omaha's growth.

[iamjacobm]

I saw that article. Hopefully momentum really gets going after this years CWS. I think developers will be jumping on projects after seeing the possibilities of the area.

[Seth]

I also read the article today. It is good to hear the excitement about future development there. Hopefully new project continue to be built there. I really think it needs more before it reaches a sort of "critical mass" in terms of attracting business and becoming a destination. Hopefully the early tenants in the area can hold on until it reaches this level.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

I've been going to Blue Line Coffee a lot lately. For what's been built in North Downtown so far, there certainly seems to be a lot of activity. Blue Line sees a lot more traffic than I expected. What's surprised me the most though is how active the railroad that meanders through the area is. I thought it was mostly abandoned but I've seen many small trains cross the intersection of 14th and Cuming.

[iamjacobm]

Neighborhood grocer/convince store would be a really nice addition for the area. Walking around today and there was no where to just grab a snack.

[Coyote]

DMK Investments wants to put a fenced in outdoor eating area on the NW corner of 14th and Cuming.

[Brad]

DMK Investments wants to put a fenced in outdoor eating area on the NW corner of 14th and Cuming.

Isn't that "the yard"?

[Coyote]

Is 1404 north or south of Cuming? DMK is leasing this from the City of Omaha.

[Brad]

Oh yeah, probably the pad site for the future restaurant at the hotel.

[riceweb]

Per my favorite anti-sprawl blog, The Rise And Sprawl, out of Winnipeg, MB:

Apartment building on Graham Avenue (where Hull’s Christian Bookstore is), 1968. Note the tiny commercial spaces at either end. This is an excellent example of the kinds of small residential buildings that can occupy the countless parking lots in this neighorhood today (the large, government-owned lots must be subdivided and sold to developers). At only three stories, builders could avoid the high cost of steel frame construction and elevators. Downtown doesn’t need one big SHED, it needs many small apartment buildings.

It'd be great to see more of this type of urban development. I was encouraged to see the Little King in the Old Market news, and hopefully this model can continue into North Downtown.

Sorry, image include failed... just click through to see the image

[iamjacobm]

^^

Yep. Right now there still isn't much residential in the area compared to the amount of retail and entertainment. North Downtown will be a long process though with maybe a building a year. Unless there is some big time developer looking into the area(which I doubt) we will probably see 1 new project a year. The biggest thing that it has going for it is the unified goal for the area. It will help to build towards the goals for the neighborhood in the coming years.

[OmahaChef]

Just as an FYI....Barleys Bar & Grill, which was located in the restaurant space of the TipTop Building, closed the last weekend of July. We packed up all of our stuff, and moved it to the Barleys location in the historic 100 block of Council Bluffs, which is the home of the original Barleys. My understanding at present, is that the kitchen will be walled off and become part of the Brandeis catering operation in the former Inplay's Forte Banquet & Conference Center. The part of Barleys fronting 16th Street will be turned into apartments, each with a private door, exiting out onto 16th Street. The former bar and party room spaces, which are located inside the atrium area, will become small office spaces.

There just was not enough business to support the place, and the CWS bust was the proverbial nail in the coffin. Plus, a restaurant and bar located deep inside a five story building, with no visibility at street level, is a poor location. So watch for new renovations at the TipTop Building.

[iamjacobm]

^^ Not surprising. Nice to see the area re-purposed instead of just sitting empty waiting for another bar to come in and most likely close. The apartments will be a welcome addition.

[OmahaChef]

I agree. It is a poor space for any retail oriented operation.

[Bobcat]

What MECA has done with their properties surrounding the Century Link Center is an embarrassment for the City of Omaha. Most persons that perform so poorly at their job are held accountable, but certainly not so for this “controlling authority”.

The decisions that MECA, and to some extent Mayor Fahey and Suttle with the Hilton decision and expansion, have made regarding the Pinnacle / Swanson site and the TD Ameritrade Park will ensure the sea of pavement in North Downtown for decades to come.

Go back a few years to when then mayor Hal Daub proposed the full service Marriot Hotel. After Mayor Fahey was elected, Daub took a seat on the MECA board. Marriot, the preferred brand of Daub and MECA officials, was scrapped by Fahey for an undersized and underwhelming Hilton. When Suttle went for the expansion of the Hilton, this was clearly the time for MECA to work with the city on, not only the size of the expansion, but the quality and possible re-flagging of the brand to satisfy MECA’s contention that there aren’t enough rooms connected at the quality they want. This would have easily satisfied all of MECA’s criteria in the RFQ issued for the Pinnacle / Swanson site and been a fantastic partnership using public financing to achieve MECA’s goal of a certain number of rooms connected to the arena at the quality they are seeking.

A second instance of MECA’s (and to some extent the city’s) poor mismanagement of the surrounding land is not having the Royals as a tenant in TD Ameritrade Park. This was a beautiful opportunity at 60 more nights a year of activity in North Downtown that would have benefited every party involved particularly the Royals with increased attendance and MECA (!!) with thousands of more visitors to their properties annually. The increased visitation would drive demand for more services and entertainment in North Downtown and make development of the MECA parking lots, including the Pinnacle site, much more ripe for dense, urban development. Developing two new stadiums in Omaha at one time made absolutely no sense

Lastly, the submittals for the Pinnacle / Swanson site, while admirable, are just a shadow of what the potential is for that site and it is really disappointing that not one proposal went out on a limb and included the lots in between the Hilton and TD Ameritrade Park. Sure, the market may not be ready for some infill (retail anyone??), but that is primarily due to the mismanagement explained above. I would have like to see 11th street reintroduced through the Pinnacle / Swanson site creating much more valuable land for any developer with the creation of four hard corners and maximizing the potential and viability of the site. Think about this, one of the busiest tourist intersections in the state is located on 11th and Howard. This is master planning 101 and a shocking failure by MECA and the developers to not incorporate such a feature on the site.

Rather than a hotel on that site, TD Ameritrade should be building their headquarters on it instead of out west (another chance for public, private cooperation). After all they did sign a sponsorship deal for the new ballpark. Such a development would go a long way in creating an amazing corridor for 10th street that could include a development every bit as good as KC’s P&L District which would include the major stakeholders in Omaha creating a futuristic retail area (think Berkshire portfolio companies like M&M’s Time Square store) that would welcome CWS (college world series HOF ?) and Berkshire Visitors alike and in turn create a robust convention center demand for MECA.

For now, I’ll keep visiting The Mat before Creighton games and hope that I never get a job where accountability doesn’t matter and my full potential could never be reached.

[iamjacobm]

A lot of your comments could start with "in an ideal world."

Go back a few years to when then mayor Hal Daub proposed the full service Marriot Hotel. After Mayor Fahey was elected, Daub took a seat on the MECA board. Marriot, the preferred brand of Daub and MECA officials, was scrapped by Fahey for an undersized and underwhelming Hilton. When Suttle went for the expansion of the Hilton, this was clearly the time for MECA to work with the city on, not only the size of the expansion, but the quality and possible re-flagging of the brand to satisfy MECA’s contention that there aren’t enough rooms connected at the quality they want. This would have easily satisfied all of MECA’s criteria in the RFQ issued for the Pinnacle / Swanson site and been a fantastic partnership using public financing to achieve MECA’s goal of a certain number of rooms connected to the arena at the quality they are seeking.

Yes picking the Hilton over the Marriot was basically a dick measuring contest that cost the city another high rise, but to complain about the physical size of the hotel is misplaced. The hotel is now 600 rooms by a wide margin the largest in Nebraska and Iowa. Remember the city still owns this one so we as tax payers paid for the expansion not a private developer like the proposed hotel on the P/S site. Instead we are looking at 950 hotel rooms directly across the street, but us as tax payers are only on the hook for 600 of the rooms. Seems like a wise move to get a developer in the game instead of the city paying for everything.

A second instance of MECA’s (and to some extent the city’s) poor mismanagement of the surrounding land is not having the Royals as a tenant in TD Ameritrade Park. This was a beautiful opportunity at 60 more nights a year of activity in North Downtown that would have benefited every party involved particularly the Royals with increased attendance and MECA (!!) with thousands of more visitors to their properties annually. The increased visitation would drive demand for more services and entertainment in North Downtown and make development of the MECA parking lots, including the Pinnacle site, much more ripe for dense, urban development. Developing two new stadiums in Omaha at one time made absolutely no sense.

I would of been nice, but there was really no way to make it happen. MECA couldn't meet the needs of the NCAA and the Royals/Storm Chasers in the same DT ball park. Sure it would of been great for the area, but the Royals wanted their own place to make their own rules and they own stadium. Sarpy Country jumped at the opportunity, I don't blame MECA for choosing the CWS over AAA baseball any of us would have done the same.

Lastly, the submittals for the Pinnacle / Swanson site, while admirable, are just a shadow of what the potential is for that site and it is really disappointing that not one proposal went out on a limb and included the lots in between the Hilton and TD Ameritrade Park. Sure, the market may not be ready for some infill (retail anyone??), but that is primarily due to the mismanagement explained above. I would have like to see 11th street reintroduced through the Pinnacle / Swanson site creating much more valuable land for any developer with the creation of four hard corners and maximizing the potential and viability of the site. Think about this, one of the busiest tourist intersections in the state is located on 11th and Howard. This is master planning 101 and a shocking failure by MECA and the developers to not incorporate such a feature on the site.

They didn't go out on a limb because the RFP didn't include that land, it would of been foolish to create a plan for land that isn't available. Be patient that lot will get developed eventually, one step at a time though. This P/S development will create the demand for other lots to be developed. Also while 11th and Howard is a key intersection 11th isn't a through street so master planning 101 actually dictates to create vibrant corners where people actually use the corner. 10th and Capitol is a much more logical location for this development to be located since that is the "entrance" to North Downtown.

Rather than a hotel on that site, TD Ameritrade should be building their headquarters on it instead of out west (another chance for public, private cooperation). After all they did sign a sponsorship deal for the new ballpark. Such a development would go a long way in creating an amazing corridor for 10th street that could include a development every bit as good as KC’s P&L District which would include the major stakeholders in Omaha creating a futuristic retail area (think Berkshire portfolio companies like M&M’s Time Square store) that would welcome CWS (college world series HOF ?) and Berkshire Visitors alike and in turn create a robust convention center demand for MECA.

TD didn't want to build downtown. Would I have preferred it? Yes, but downtown isn't right for every company just like a downtown loft isn't right for every family. So what id TD put their name on the stadium. Do you proposed that CenturyLink move their HQ to Omaha because they have the naming rights?


I totally agree with your ideas, but your accusations of no accountability are a bit misguided in my opinion. Downtown Omaha is a process, not a single act.[/quote]

[riceweb]

Well said, iamjacobm. I don't know that it's fair to be hypercritical of the MECA. In fact--and I might be in the minority here--but I feel that MECA has done an amazing job thus far and the city is well on its way to completing a from-scratch, mixed-use neighborhood that houses the city's largest entertainment events. They have done so in spite of hundreds of millions of dollars of investment at nearby UNO/Aksarben Village and Midtown Crossing. There's only so much development that can happen in a town our size without oversaturating the market, and I'm pleased with the pace of North Downtown.

[Coyote]

With the prospect of the Omaha Brewery and apartments, and the Zestos/Mattress with Apt's in North DT, what more needs to be added to this area to be more vital? There was talk of a museum, but from what I read, people want more living facilities. What would make north DT more vibrant?

[justnick]

I think one of the main things and the most obvious that everyone always talks about is that there's no grocery stores, or even a gas station, in north downtown. I walk everywhere, but even though I love North Downtown, I think that would be a major drawback when I eventually get done with this heck called school and start apartment searching.

[iamjacobm]

With the prospect of the Omaha Brewery and apartments, and the Zestos/Mattress with Apt's in North DT, what more needs to be added to this area to be more vital? There was talk of a museum, but from what I read, people want more living facilities. What would make north DT more vibrant?

Brewery, apartments, possible museum are all good additions and would be really cool they aren't going to push the area to its full potential.

To me without a decent sized employer investing in the area it will continue to grow at a decent pace, but wont ever reach it's potential. The future of North Downtown wont be much to write home about when sports bars, budget hotels, and hat stores are the area's biggest employers. Until the neighborhood becomes a viable location for a career in Omaha it will simply continue to be a destination that people only go to when an event is happening in the area.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

You're acting as if North Downtown is sooooo far away from Downtown and isolated in some way. It is SURROUNDED by major employers:

Creighton University
Union Pacific
Physicians Mutual
First National Bank
ConAgra
and many others...

For a NDT resident, the commute to any one of these employers would be a breezy and short walk, bike ride, or bus ride.

Sure, a big employer choosing to build in NDT would be excellent, but it's not going to make/break the neighborhood.

What it really needs, as has been mentioned, is more residential, and, along with it will come the types of retail that support an active, walkable neighborhood---banks, pharmacies, a hardware store, etc. and of course more cafes, restaurants, and bars.

[iamjacobm]

I am not talking about an employer for the few dozen renting in the area. I am talking about an employer to get people in the area during the 9-5 hours during the week, North Downtown has next to 0 activity during weekday. A decent sized(I want to emphasize decent sized I am not expecting some Fortune 1000 relocation) employer would help the activity for 40 hours a week.

North Downtown is seriously dead during the week.

[StreetsOfOmaha]

I don't get what the employer would do for the street life situation... Employees would just be inside all day except for the lunch hour. What kind of employer do you have in mind?

It's mainly the residents, and to a lesser extent the workers, that will bring vibrancy to the neighborhood.

[iamjacobm]

I don't get what the employer would do for the street life situation... Employees would just be inside all day except for the lunch hour. What kind of employer do you have in mind?

It's mainly the residents, and to a lesser extent the workers, that will bring vibrancy to the neighborhood.

To me it doesn't really matter what type of jobs.

I don't think you realize just how empty North Downtown is during the day. It is a virtual ghost town. There isn't foot traffic, bike traffic or car traffic. There is no one there. It is almost erie to walk around that area of the city and not see a single other person other than the guy that helps you at Blue Line and the person you are walking with.

There aren't cars going by no people walking by no bikes going by no ones on the balcony of their apartment. It's just empty.

I am not trying to discredit the residential component of all this. But Coyote's question was what more needs to be done. More of the same would be good for North Downtown, but in my eyes some more jobs would be that something more that would push it from an entertainment/residential neighborhood to a truly mixed use dynamic area unlike any other currently in the city.

If continued at the current type of development it is going to be a less dense, less historic Old Market. It wouldn't be bad, but it would be more of the same for Omaha instead of something a little different.

[nebport5]

In essence it's about creating more daily foot traffic. A F'ing gas station is the last thing I'd want to see in NDT. More retail would be nice to play off UO and AA. Of course that's a hard proposition without a bigger anchor.

In the meantime... a breakfast cafe(with late night hours), or a bakery(maybe something like Jones cupcakes). A small bookstore, like a small version of 1/2 Price Books could work.


In an ideal world a small neighborhood Whole Foods would be perfect. Even another bar or two would be ok as long as their conceptually different from anything in the area (esp. NO MORE sports bars).


Without a doubt more future business needs to play off Creighton and the surrounding residents rather than pandering to a crowd that's only here for two weeks out of the year.

[Big E]

Whole Foods

/...gasm

[byrdrules]

I don't think you realize just how empty North Downtown is during the day. It is a virtual ghost town. There isn't foot traffic, bike traffic or car traffic. There is no one there. It is almost erie to walk around that area of the city and not see a single other person other than the guy that helps you at Blue Line and the person you are walking with.

There aren't cars going by no people walking by no bikes going by no ones on the balcony of their apartment. It's just empty.

I spent quite some time directly across from FNB and UP, and I noticed the same thing there. During the lunch hour people were milling about, but other than that there was no street presence to be seen other than the folks on 16th street waiting for the bus. I'm not saying that a sizable employer wouldn't inject some life into the area, but I definitely wouldn't consider that to the the de facto roadblock keeping north downtown from being the new old market either.

[iamjacobm]

I don't know why I just thought about this, but why didn't the make 13th a thru street north of Cuming?

[StreetsOfOmaha]

Was just at the Mastercraft Building today and was wondering the same thing. There is good pedestrian access, though.

[Kyle Broflovski]

Downtown/North Downtown is probably the most awkward place ever. It gets even more awkward with the addition of another run of the mill sports bar in the motif of some kind of historical name, building, etc.

Seriously? Who the heck goes to "North Downtown" other than say a few weeks during the summer? Everynight, I walk to my car at the top of at the parking garage and cast my eyes upon the wasteland that is North Downtown. Not a soul moving, a car passing, nothing. Nothing because it's a "made-for" entertainment district that relies on one event a year that lasts a week and a half at most and/or what ever major concert is coming to town this month.

Kudos for saving the UP R&D shop, and Zesto's is neat building on a unique plot of land, but the modernist architecture and predictable run of the mill building materials that lines the new Capitol St and 13th st districts is blasphemy and will not stand the test of time.


Everyone, make sure to line up balls deep for a hour to get a beer at the Blatt Beer House. Who was the genius who thought it was a good idea to open a restaurant on the busiest day of the year? Retards.

[GetUrban]

Downtown/North Downtown is probably the most awkward place ever. It gets even more awkward with the addition of another run of the mill sports bar in the motif of some kind of historical name, building, etc.

Seriously? Who the heck goes to "North Downtown" other than say a few weeks during the summer? Everynight, I walk to my car at the top of at the parking garage and cast my eyes upon the wasteland that is North Downtown. Not a soul moving, a car passing, nothing. Nothing because it's a "made-for" entertainment district that relies on one event a year that lasts a week and a half at most and/or what ever major concert is coming to town this month.

Kudos for saving the UP R&D shop, and Zesto's is neat building on a unique plot of land, but the modernist architecture and predictable run of the mill building materials that lines the new Capitol St and 13th st districts is blasphemy and will not stand the test of time.


Everyone, make sure to line up balls deep for a hour to get a beer at the Blatt Beer House. Who was the genius who thought it was a good idea to open a restaurant on the busiest day of the year? Retards.

It is a work in progress. No doubt it would be better with a full-time tenant (baseball team) in the new stadium, but I'm more optimistic than you and Debbie. It will keep getting better.

[jessep28]

Maybe one of these stores would be a good fit for the area??

[Kyle Broflovski]

Maybe one of these stores would be a good fit for the area??

That reminds me of the two-weeks-a-year seasonal tenant on 10th and Capitol hawking CWS swag! ^^^

Probably. But I'm sure you'll be able to buy the same up-priced beers and appetizers/bar food and any one of the joints within 5minutes walking distance of eachother....Goodnights/Blatt/Mattress Factory/Union/Capitol Lounge/DJ's/Farrell's/[insert cloned idea restaurant here]


Troll, troll, troll your boat as I gently walk your streets......

[iamjacobm]

God forbid a neighborhood not be completely built up and thriving in a decades time. It isn't perfect, it wont ever be perfect, but it is far from a wasteland.

Just this past Tuesday the Slowdown celebrated their 5th birthday with a CD release party for a Saddle Creek release getting tons of nation praise.

Multiple apartment projects, half dozen small business and two major national retailers. Mastercraft building nearly fully leased, new large brewery u/c.

I have my complaints and they will get more on my nerves if 2020 rolls around and the area looks about the same, but for a first 10 years we are doing pretty damn well.

[BRoss]

Everynight, I walk to my car at the top of at the parking garage and cast my eyes upon the wasteland that is North Downtown.

Maybe you should get some perspective on how far it's really come (click to see bigger image):


This photo is from when they were building the First National tower. You wanna talk about wasteland?

[FrontlineOmaha]

Thanks for that picture OSI! Thats an awesome perspective on how far this area has come. No, its not perfect yet, but people have to understand that these things take time. Its not going to be a swamp one day and a bustling destination the next.

As the city continues to fill in between the stadium and downtown, this will prove to be a great area with draws during special events and some destination restaurants and shops that cant be found anywhere else in the city.

...also for the record, the view of downtown from the second floor patio is amazing. You know how part of the fun of going to events at TDAP is sitting in the north side of the stadium looking back at the skyline...now you dont have to buy tickets, you can simply grab a beer, head up to the open air patio and enjoy the view. They also have 4 seats from Rosenblatt on the patio facing the stadium for those looking for a sentimental connection to the old stadium. They really did a great job on their beer selection (they worked with one of the owners of Krug Park to nail down their tap and bottle list!). There is literally something for everyone...unless you are a bud light snob ). They will be offering a limited menu during the CWS, and after talking about their full menu, I am waiting in anticipation for another unique offering in Omaha.

...If you couldn't tell, I am excited about having a destination restaurant with a great beer selection, right down by several of Omaha's major attractions.

[Greg S]

Lids sign is up. I am extremely happy with how this project ended up!

Edit: And Blatt will open with a limited menu Monday.

Where is Lids at?

Greg

[iamjacobm]

Lids sign is up. I am extremely happy with how this project ended up!

Edit: And Blatt will open with a limited menu Monday.

Where is Lids at?

Greg

Directly on the corner and the far norther side of the building.

[koberaptor]

Everynight, I walk to my car at the top of at the parking garage and cast my eyes upon the wasteland that is North Downtown.

Maybe you should get some perspective on how far it's really come (click to see bigger image):


This photo is from when they were building the First National tower. You wanna talk about wasteland?

Does anyone have a photo of that same exact spot except taken today or in the past few months? (has to have td ameritrade park)