Energy/gas solution idea 1, commuters and the electric car.

[GetUrban]

Efficiency-wise, it makes little sense to haul around a 4000-6000 lb vehicle just to get your butt from point A to point B. Vehicles need to weigh no more than 800 lbs max..

Lol - the Volt's battery pack weighs over half that alone, and I'm pretty sure that is less than the weight of the Tesla battery pack (990lbs).

OK, 800lbs was way too low. But the point is, compared to what we're hauling around most of the time (just ourselves) vehicles are way too heavy. How about 1500 lbs as a goal? ...maybe with smaller vehicle size, better battery technology and super-light high-strength materials such as carbon fiber it could be possible.

[joeglow]

...Interesting article about electric vs internal combustion and overall emissions.



http://www.electroauto.com/info/pollmyth.shtml

Interesting read. On the surface, however, I would consider a random college professor as less biased than the Electric Vehicle Association of Greater Washington, D.C.

I think you have to dig a little deeper, and show more contrary evidence from your own unbiased sources, before you can assume the article is worthless based solely on the writer. I don't know if the article is 100% truthful either....just throwing it out there for discussion.

Fair enough. How about I don't put as much stock in a 15 year old article, using 18 year old cars for analysis?

[S33]

OK, 800lbs was way too low. But the point is, compared to what we're hauling around most of the time (just ourselves) vehicles are way too heavy. How about 1500 lbs as a goal? ...maybe with smaller vehicle size, better battery technology and super-light high-strength materials such as carbon fiber it could be possible.

I would look at the Mini's as a good example. At one intersection, I saw an older Chrysler, not sure what model, but it got into a head-on collision with a little red and black mini, and the mini absolutely destroyed the Chrysler. If you can make them light, make them strong, because other vehicles on the road will absolutely crush the light/cheap cars. But yes, I agree. More vehicle than you need is just as wasteful as sitting at home in Arizona leaving your water faucet running.

[GetUrban]

OK, 800lbs was way too low. But the point is, compared to what we're hauling around most of the time (just ourselves) vehicles are way too heavy. How about 1500 lbs as a goal? ...maybe with smaller vehicle size, better battery technology and super-light high-strength materials such as carbon fiber it could be possible.

I would look at the Mini's as a good example. At one intersection, I saw an older Chrysler, not sure what model, but it got into a head-on collision with a little red and black mini, and the mini absolutely destroyed the Chrysler. If you can make them light, make them strong, because other vehicles on the road will absolutely crush the light/cheap cars. But yes, I agree. More vehicle than you need is just as wasteful as sitting at home in Arizona leaving your water faucet running.

Yeah, MINIs are designed very well for crash protection. But they are surprisingly heavy for their size...approx 2500 lbs. My wife drives a 2006 Cooper S. The mpg isn't that great either,,,about 24 mpg city, 32 mpg hwy. She has a heavy foot too.

[GetUrban]

...Interesting article about electric vs internal combustion and overall emissions.



http://www.electroauto.com/info/pollmyth.shtml

Interesting read. On the surface, however, I would consider a random college professor as less biased than the Electric Vehicle Association of Greater Washington, D.C.

I think you have to dig a little deeper, and show more contrary evidence from your own unbiased sources, before you can assume the article is worthless based solely on the writer. I don't know if the article is 100% truthful either....just throwing it out there for discussion.

Fair enough. How about I don't put as much stock in a 15 year old article, using 18 year old cars for analysis?

Ok, I'll give you that. Engine technology/efficiency, for both ICE and EV have definitely improved since 1995. It would be interesting to see the same study done today. I saw a report recently that said the average age of cars on the road today is around 10-years. Smokestack emissions and power plant technology have likely improved also, but probably at a slower rate.

[Big E]

FWIW:

http://www.omaha.com/article/20120512/N ... first-leaf

Roger and Nicole Paulman on Friday became the owners of an “ocean blue,” all-electric Nissan Leaf, the first sold and delivered in Nebraska. To finally get the keys to their environmentally friendly Leaf was a welcome end to a plodding, two-year process that involved a waiting list to get the new, $38,000 sedan.

The new Nissan Leaf can go up to 100 miles on a single battery charge, which can take between eight to 18 hours, depending on the electrical set-up at the owner's home.

Time it takes to charge:

» 110-voltage home: 16 to 18 hours for a depleted battery (estimated)
» 220-voltage home: Eight hours
» Quick-charge station: 26 minutes (80 percent charge)

Once the price comes down on electric vehicles - which isn't too far off - they will be an absolute no-brainer for 90% of drivers. It only costs a couple bucks worth of "fuel" to go 200 miles, the "fuel" isn't imported from the Middle East, and emissions are controlled at the factory. The metals in the batteries are even valuable enough that recycling will be a non-issue: you wouldn't dream of NOT cashing in.

[S33]

I don't suppose anyone knows where we could get some credible, factual information on the difference in emissions between a battery powered car and a fuel powered car. Technically, big e's car runs from burning coal, but how would that compare with a fuel burning vehicle?

I'm not bagging on his car, its a cool |expletive| car, but is it truly more environmentally friendly?

[Big E]

but is it truly more environmentally friendly?

It's not even close, assuming the emissions are controlled adequately at the factory level and there's little loss during distribution. Neither of those are issues in the US.

Some links:

I know it's the Sierra Club, and light on statistics, but it's a good catch-all:

http://www.sierraclub.org/electric-vehicles/myths.aspx

A study linked to in the above article:

http://www.sherryboschert.com/Downloads/Emissions.pdf

...both the overwhelming preponderance of the data and the conclusions of the best-designed studies show that
plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) and electric vehicles (EVs) produce fewer greenhouse gas emissions and pollutants than conventional cars, hybrids, or hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles.

A recent article focusing on China's use of electric vehicles (from the same people that brought you this week's cover story of a MILF breast feeding her 3 year old). It's pointing out the problem there is the usage of EVs is so high, the power plants are polluting more than the ICE cars were. It's a valid point, but not an issue here do to our environmental controls at the factory level:

http://healthland.time.com/2012/02/14/w ... -in-china/

An article debunking the study referred to in the above article:

http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/16/new ... t-so-fast/

And if you REALLY want to deal with some internet forum nitpickery, look around this place:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/forum.php

More:

http://www.evadc.org/pwrplnt.pdf

http://energy.typepad.com/the-energy-bl ... -cars.html

[Jason4225]

I would love to own an electric car or even a hybrid like the Volt. My commute is 17 miles each way if I drive (currently I park and ride my bike the last 10 miles) so I could theoretically commute round trip without ever using gasoline. The main problem for myself is that is comes down to cost. My current vehicle cost approximately $14000 and is only a few months from being paid off. I average about 29mpg with my current vehicle and it is much more exciting to drive than a hybrid or electric vehicle. A new Volt costs $31500 including the $7500 tax credit. Even if I never bought gas, it would take years to recoup the cost of the vehicle. I agree that we need vehicles like the Volt, Prius, and Leaf to help reduce our dependence on foreign oil but without a decreased entry cost and a better infrastructure to support electric vehilces it is not feasible for many people right now.

[jessep28]

I would love to own an electric car or even a hybrid like the Volt. My commute is 17 miles each way if I drive (currently I park and ride my bike the last 10 miles) so I could theoretically commute round trip without ever using gasoline. The main problem for myself is that is comes down to cost. My current vehicle cost approximately $14000 and is only a few months from being paid off. I average about 29mpg with my current vehicle and it is much more exciting to drive than a hybrid or electric vehicle. A new Volt costs $31500 including the $7500 tax credit. Even if I never bought gas, it would take years to recoup the cost of the vehicle. I agree that we need vehicles like the Volt, Prius, and Leaf to help reduce our dependence on foreign oil but without a decreased entry cost and a better infrastructure to support electric vehilces it is not feasible for many people right now.

The thing with the Volt is that GM isn't willing to take a loss on the initial models until they start saving money through economies of scale and other efficiencies. That's what Toyota did with the Prius and they've obviously had success with that car.

I'd love to own an electric car too for driving around town, but the price has to drop before I would buy one.

[Big E]

Again, I'm not making any TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) claims here. At least not right now.

Of course, personal computers were expensive toys in the 80s, as were cell phones in the 90s.

I'm confident it will come around.

[Brad]

I heard on the radio this morning that if Americans were "Normal Weight" and not "Obese", as a country we would save $4 BILLION a year in gas.

“Growing obesity rates increase fuel consumption,” said engineer Sheldon Jacobson of the University of Illinois. How much? An additional 938 million gallons of gasoline each year due to overweight and obesity in the United States, or 0.8 percent, he calculated. That's $4 billion extra.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47211549/ns ... 7FI4eh5HKg

[Big E]

Depending on whose numbers you use to calculate gallons of gas in a barrel of oil, that's somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-25 million barrels of oil annually, or slightly more than one full day's national consumption in the US.

[Brad]

slightly more than one full day's national consumption in the US.

That doesn't sound nearly as impressive...