Official: North Downtown Discussion

[Linkin5]

The city has royally |expletive| up north downtown.

It could be worse. It could be L Street Marketplace.

Most accurate comment ever posted.

[MadMartin8]

The city has royally |expletive| up north downtown.

It could be worse. It could be L Street Marketplace.

Most accurate comment ever posted.

It needs to be against the rules to mention that place. It's like Mordor, we just don't talk about THOSE lands.

[RNcyanide]

The city has royally |expletive| up north downtown.

It could be worse. It could be L Street Marketplace.

Most accurate comment ever posted.

It needs to be against the rules to mention that place. It's like Mordor, we just don't talk about THOSE lands.

Should the penalty paid for mentioning 'that place' be the same as setting light to the grail-shaped beacon?

[bigredmed]

To be fair, a lot of people use it heavily. Though, that fact does not change the truth of the statement that North Downtown, especially between the river and 16th and the area from 480 to Bemis Park, could be better.

[RNcyanide]

To be fair, a lot of people use it heavily. Though, that fact does not change the truth of the statement that North Downtown, especially between the river and 16th and the area from 480 to Bemis Park, could be better.

I never thought of the area as anything spectacular, but maybe I am missing what everyone is railing against here. What specifically about the place has the City messed up on? The only thing I noticed really is there is no foot nor car traffic into the area, outside of events at TD. What could the city do better here?

[iamjacobm]

I don't put it all on the city, they can't force people to build. The city did mess up royally with the Homewood Suites and Hampton Inn complex. The planning board got this latest one right though.

It just really sucks seeing so much potential wasted.

[RNcyanide]

I don't put it all on the city, they can't force people to build. The city did mess up royally with the Homewood Suites and Hampton Inn complex. The planning board got this latest one right though.

It just really sucks seeing so much potential wasted.

I have noticed that. They both look really out of place there.

[Choleric]

Just look to Lincoln and their speedy development of Canopy St., Marriott/Hilton/Hyatt and other areas of their arena district, for the correct way to handle new development next to a new arena.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

I'm hoping with time and growing popularity for an urban lifestyle, the mistakes will be mended. The foundation for a good neighborhood is there, but its faced with too much competition with other revitalizing neighborhoods. The Old Market, Midtown, Little Italy, Benson, Downtown, Aksarben, and to some degree Dundee are all competing with North Downtown for the new urban dweller and, in my opinion, were able to get off to a better start as none of those were quite as dilapidated or brownfield-y (maybe with the exception of Aksarben).

Hopefully developers will also realize that some of what they're passing off as urban, isn't quite urban, but modified suburbia. Walkability, bikeability and (hopefully in the future) convenient transit are key. Right now, too many developers believe building something up to the street front will suffice without giving much thought to anything else. The row homes at Riverfront Place, while pretty, look entirely out of place surrounded by parking lots and a rail line. The Homewood/Hampton hotels and the building that the Dugout is in made little effort to hide their surface lots - the Saddle Creek Records building didn't do a whole lot better.

[MadMartin8]

Lincoln is building in an already established area and had backing from quite a few businesses in the community...it's an effort to play "catch up" to a lot of cities in the region. It's what has driven their zeal and has proven to offer them some dramatic new buildings...but what will be the lasting draw for them? Husker Basketball? The hope that there will be enough concerts to that turn down the CLink and Sprint Center? It'll be interesting once the cranes go away if there will be the draw...it's an interesting market for sure. Certainly so far they have made the moves, but I wonder if the momentum lasts.


It's amazing how the tone of this discussion would change immediately if Shamrock would begin to push some dirt around in their lots, or even play with some Tonka Trucks, near the CLink. At this point, though, I feel as though I have a greater chance of jumping out of my wheelchair and becoming a marathon runner by next Tuesday.

[RNcyanide]

Lincoln is building in an already established area and had backing from quite a few businesses in the community...it's an effort to play "catch up" to a lot of cities in the region. It's what has driven their zeal and has proven to offer them some dramatic new buildings...but what will be the lasting draw for them? Husker Basketball? The hope that there will be enough concerts to that turn down the CLink and Sprint Center? It'll be interesting once the cranes go away if there will be the draw...it's an interesting market for sure. Certainly so far they have made the moves, but I wonder if the momentum lasts.


It's amazing how the tone of this discussion would change immediately if Shamrock would begin to push some dirt around in their lots, or even play with some Tonka Trucks, near the CLink. At this point, though, I feel as though I have a greater chance of jumping out of my wheelchair and becoming a marathon runner by next Tuesday.

The day we move the Shamrock Marriott into the 'Projects Never Built' section will be a sad day.

[S33]

I don't know a whole lot about what's going on with north downtown, but having been there a few times recently, I can safely say it looks like 132nd and Maple. There is nothing special about north downtown, and if the intent was take create another urban district, well, it doesn't resemble anything urban.

Those hotels pretty much set the status quo for the area, and I'm not holding out much hope for it.

[RNcyanide]

I don't know a whole lot about what's going on with north downtown, but having been there a few times recently, I can safely say it looks like 132nd and Maple. There is nothing special about north downtown, and if the intent was take create another urban district, well, it doesn't resemble anything urban.

Those hotels pretty much set the status quo for the area, and I'm not holding out much hope for it.

It is really unfortunate. I revisited North Downtown mentally and I can see what you guys are talking about... Maybe some hope would be in the form of Creighton doing something on the western fringes of North Downtown or a landmark development once they scrap the Civic. Or a tornado takes out the area and makes the planners or whoever start over.

One other thing I think they could do would to be to destroy the Great Wall of Double Tree sometime in the next decade or two and reconnect 16th with Capitol. With a redeveloped 16th Street, it would be a great connection between downtown and North Downtown. That would give them some time to do something better with the area.

[iamjacobm]

Double Tree actually just finished a $20 million renovation this past winter, we are going to be stuck with a disjointed 16th for a long time.

As for the two hotels on 13th. There is so much wrong with them. First off they wasted what could of been an incredible corner, instead of having shops or bars on all 3 corners opposite of the stadium's main entrance we got two hotels that add nothing to the street level, I think these two should of been put a block or two east so we could get an awesome condo or apartment project at the stadiums front door instead. Second they have those surface lots that will never be developed, the city should of push for shared structured parking. Third they blocked off 13th street to thru traffic, who ever thought that was a good idea has got a screw loose.

[RNcyanide]

Double Tree actually just finished a $20 million renovation this past winter, we are going to be stuck with a disjointed 16th for a long time.

Of course they would...

[HskrFanMike]

First off they wasted what could of been an incredible corner, instead of having shops or bars on all 3 corners opposite of the stadium's main entrance we got two hotels that add nothing to the street level, I think these two should of been put a block or two east so we could get an awesome condo or apartment project at the stadiums front door instead.

So that's what all the kvetching is about??? :roll: :roll:

[iamjacobm]

First off they wasted what could of been an incredible corner, instead of having shops or bars on all 3 corners opposite of the stadium's main entrance we got two hotels that add nothing to the street level, I think these two should of been put a block or two east so we could get an awesome condo or apartment project at the stadiums front door instead.

So that's what all the kvetching is about??? :roll: :roll:

Yep, $500 million in public development could only drive average foux urban development where it is more attractive to build a parking lot than it is to build an actual building. indeed.

[thenewguy]

Just playing the devil's advocate here but if you are basing "urban" on street level retail presence, bars, night life, and plenty of nearby residents, then you can hardly call the 16th st corridor, or several other parts of downtown "urban." though, you would be hard pressed to find anyone that wouldnt call it urban. if it is density or the height of the buildings, then you could also say that many parts of downtown arent urban either.

i will give you the fact that they could have made a better attempt at giving it an urban design feel, but thats the only thing north downtown is lacking that (honestly) much of downtown was lacking too...at least until recent years.

[RNcyanide]

I remember a certain part of downtown KC near the H&R Block Center in the Power and Light District I think would have been neat in North Downtown. Two things I really like that on some blocks, the storefronts actually faced inward and had a large alleyway to for pedestrian traffic, and also there was landscaping and water features with variations in elevation and such. Cordish[?] Did a fantastic job in that area. If only we had brought them in...

[iamjacobm]

When an alley or other city street is no longer needed a business or neighborhood can ask the city to vacate that land and give to the business or neighborhood. Their are several proposals on Tuesday's Agenda where the city is being asked to vacate a road.

City Council passed the the ordinance to vacate California St between 16th and 17th unanimously.

[Coyote]

The reason I thought this would probably pass is that Californis ends on 17th with Morrison Stadium being on the west side of 17th. So I do not see how many people actually use this a a thoroughfare, only if you are lost in NDTO.

[Coyote]

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but looking at who owns land in NDTO, FNB owns many of those lots and really has control about any development in the SW quardrant.

[Garrett]

If only FNB could be nice like Mutual and build something like MTC in North Downtown.

[MadMartin8]

If only FNB could be nice like Mutual and build something like MTC in North Downtown.

That's my dream...but that will never happen. If anything, it'll be another L Street Marketplace with big box stores.

[RNcyanide]

It needs to be against the rules to mention that place. It's like Mordor, we just don't talk about THOSE lands.

[MadMartin8]

I'll gladly take my punishment for the mentioning of the Dark Lands, but I thought it necessary to make the point :(

[RNcyanide]

I'll gladly take my punishment for the mentioning of the Dark Lands, but I thought it necessary to make the point :(

Realistically speaking, even if FNB did try to compete with Mutual with some kind of development, I don't think we'd be in danger of you-know-where pt. II. I actually don't really get why FNB didn't do something like that in the first place. It would have been a nearly ideal location.

[Garrett]

http://www.omaha.com/article/20130614/N ... ly-innings

Interesting read about the factors of North Downtown and the things that need to happen for it to succeed at last.

[Joe_Sovereign]

What is missing from North Downtown is people. There are not enough events, tourists, students, or residents to create any kind of organic demand for development in the area. The increase in downtown residents in the West Market, Midtown, Little Italy, Capitol Street(?), will help the future development of North Downtown. Right now If I was building a new apartment building I would much rather build it three blocks from the Old Market then in North Downtown. If the development of the rest of Downtown/Midtown Omaha continues those empty lots in North Downtown become more and more attractive for developers.

[Dundeemaha]

Right now If I was building a new apartment building I would much rather build it three blocks from the Old Market then in North Downtown. If the development of the rest of Downtown/Midtown Omaha continues those empty lots in North Downtown become more and more attractive for developers.

That's the real problem, unless something drastic like a streetcar gets added to connect North Downtown to Downtown and the Old Market, it's just going to be way more attractive to build around the Old Market until all of the available lots nearby fill up.

Speaking of a streetcar, I don't know why people pretend that the goal is rapid transit. The goal is to connect a struggling non-walkable area with a successful urban area to encourage private investment and growth in the struggling area. Is it because unless you frame it as rapid transit you can't get federal money?

[iamjacobm]

I am glad the OWH went out and wrote this article. I agree with the comment that we have come a long way in 10 years from a run down industrial area to a clean new major economic driver, no disputes with that. And as expected most of the people interviewed were very optimistic about the future. That is where I start seeing it a little different. Yes we have done a ton over the past decade, but the trend lately isn't to invest in the area to build on the successes of that time period. If the goal was to create an arena district and make sure everyone that comes down to the CWS can park within 4 blocks and have a handful of bars and budget hotels then we have hit it out of the park. The thing is the visions and goals that have been pumped for the past 5 years were "another Aksarben Village or MTC" we aren't even close to that right now. If we haven't seen a development bump from the opening of a TDAP, what makes anyone think we will see one when the park is 5 or 10 years old? Who here expects a project announced on The Yard in the next 5 years? What about MECA Lots B and D or the new FNB lot in the next 10? I have a hard time seeing them change for a while, save a streetcar project.

And I will gladly eat crow if things change. I hope they do.

[MadMartin8]

All they need is an apartment that is about or less than 100 units in the space of "The Yard", and maybe another to a lot in the north, and you would see a drastic change in the area. It wouldn't take a huge Apartment boom to make that area take off. The problem is no developer/bank/person with money wants to take that "chance".

[Bob from Omaha]

Check out this post with a story about proposals for North Downtown, Mutual & Aksarben village. There is a posted article from the owh. North Downtown blew up, or sank or festered, Aksarben is doing ok but could have been more, and Mutual actually delivered on the promise....during a massive recession.

In particular, take a look at the renderings of North Downtown. Then take a look at what has happened since. Talk about dropping the ball.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=77118

[riceweb]

Check out this post with a story about proposals for North Downtown, Mutual & Aksarben village. There is a posted article from the owh. North Downtown blew up, or sank or festered, Aksarben is doing ok but could have been more, and Mutual actually delivered on the promise....during a massive recession.

In particular, take a look at the renderings of North Downtown. Then take a look at what has happened since. Talk about dropping the ball.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=77118

Aksarben's actually pretty close to the master plan... there's still some work to be done, but after Gordman's and the Residence Inn are complete later this year, only 2 of the 9 zones will not be completed. Additionally, they've broken ground on the hockey arena, which was not part of the original master plan, and a strip mall independent of the project popped up, home to my caffeine fix, Scooter's.

I think they've done extremely well.

[S33]

Check out this post with a story about proposals for North Downtown, Mutual & Aksarben village. There is a posted article from the owh. North Downtown blew up, or sank or festered, Aksarben is doing ok but could have been more, and Mutual actually delivered on the promise....during a massive recession.

In particular, take a look at the renderings of North Downtown. Then take a look at what has happened since. Talk about dropping the ball.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=77118

MT Crossing was self-financed. All they had to do was pull the trigger. That... is the difference.

[Coyote]

The purpose of this request is to provide consolidation of the vacated right of way with the adjacent property owned by the First National Bank.

I believe this is to provide for a block by two block parking area.

And here you go, City Council voted to Vacate, now turning into Parking:

[MadMartin8]

Yeeeaaaahhhhh it's "The Yard II"!

[TitosBuritoBarn]

Ugh, the southernmost building of that group looked like it would be pretty cool if they'd cleaned it up.

[Coyote]

Ugh, the southernmost building of that group looked like it would be pretty cool if they'd cleaned it up.

That whole area could:

[RNcyanide]

Is it not there anymore?