Capitol District (NWC 10th & Capitol)

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:15 pm

Well if we go by the Mayor's comment everything is in Phase 1 except for the office portion.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:59 am

If that is correct the two tallest structures "will" rise first.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:48 pm

RNcyanide · Post by **RNcyanide** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:51 pm

Is that sign new? Is that the action we were supposed to see this week?

MadMartin8 · Post by **MadMartin8** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:08 pm

RNcyanide wrote:Is that sign new? Is that the action we were supposed to see this week?

Look back on page...I think 21. That sign has been there since forever.

RNcyanide · Post by **RNcyanide** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:38 pm

Seeing it on my computer instead of my phone made me recognize it.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:33 am

Guys, I'm mocking the remianing believers...

RNcyanide · Post by **RNcyanide** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:36 pm

Why?

I still have my doubts, but overall, I think it's going to happen. We've already pointed out all the mistakes made here, but, so long as the bottom doesn't drop out on the economy again and Townsend doesn't become an investor, everything should go swimmingly.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:26 pm

GetUrban wrote:Heard from a party directly involved...It's getting very close...you might see some action yet this week.

...hope he's right!

This is why I've been busy on this thread.. Oh and just drove by again today still nothing. Anyone else care to take a wager?

And I take no pleasure in this.

MSizlack · Post by **MSizlack** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:44 pm

I believe it's going to happen, even after all the problems they have had. But from what very little I've heard recently about it, it's been scaled down from the original proposal.

RNcyanide · Post by **RNcyanide** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:50 pm

MSizlack wrote:I believe it's going to happen, even after all the problems they have had. But from what very little I've heard recently about it, it's been scaled down from the original proposal.

Didn't we establish that they were going to hold off on the office portion?

MSizlack · Post by **MSizlack** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:19 pm

By scaled back I mean size and height, not building in phases. I heard 250 rooms hotel, 150-200 apartments, and 100k of office retail.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:24 pm

Now that's entirely believable. Let us never contract in grand with Shamrock again.

RNcyanide · Post by **RNcyanide** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:32 pm

MSizlack wrote:By scaled back I mean size and height, not building in phases. I heard 250 rooms hotel, 150-200 apartments, and 100k of office retail.

Oh goddammit.

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:26 pm

MTO wrote:
GetUrban wrote:Heard from a party directly involved...It's getting very close...you might see some action yet this week.

...hope he's right!
This is why I've been busy on this thread.. Oh and just drove by again today still nothing. Anyone else care to take a wager?

And I take no pleasure in this.

Glad I qualified it with the word "might." Still frustrating though. Maybe the expected rain on Friday kept them from mobilizing...doubtful on that though.

I haven't heard anything about it being scaled-back, but I did hear from another source they have been unable to get any bids from some trades. That could be another hold-up.

mr. omaha · Post by **mr. omaha** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:58 pm

This project has become Townsend Part Deux. At this point, I'm convinced that Omaha has a better chance of seeing this hotel come to fruition:

image.jpg

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:09 pm

I did remember your preface.

At this point if scaling down gets this thing done than scale it down. Whatever it takes. The city could still benefit from even a project halfed in scale, beats two and one half blocks of nothing. Also the beer-garden thing that Lincoln has and we don't is also part of this complex. JUST GET IT DONE!

mcarch · Post by **mcarch** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:22 pm

"Just get it done" if need be by "scaling down" is why Omaha has nothing but low-rise miss-match. There needs to be leadership. The thing either needs to be done as it was approved/designed or NOTHING. If you build nothing, you have a better chance of getting something better than if you build on the site something average that falls under 5 years later of "well we could have had this if that wasn't built."

RNcyanide · Post by **RNcyanide** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:49 pm

mcarch wrote:"Just get it done" if need be by "scaling down" is why Omaha has nothing but low-rise miss-match. There needs to be leadership. The thing either needs to be done as it was approved/designed or NOTHING. If you build nothing, you have a better chance of getting something better than if you build on the site something average that falls under 5 years later of "well we could have had this if that wasn't built."

I agree. I want it done the way it was intended. If the developer can't get it off the ground the way it was pitched, then go find one who can. I don't want something mediocre built and then lament about missed opportunity down the road.

Linkin5 · Post by **Linkin5** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:51 pm

Ideally they should cut out the office space and keep everything else.

MSizlack · Post by **MSizlack** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:00 pm

I've been as sceptitcal as most of you on this project, but we can't always have or cake and it it too. I certainly hope that it gets built to the original plans. I was told it would be downsized NOT by someone who works for Shamrock, but by someone who works for a larger developer here in town. So I'm certainly hoping the downsizing is not the case. IF it is downsized OR doesn't get off the ground, how long are you willing to wait? Since the ground breaking last year there has been all sorts of hate towards Shamrock, me included. But what if it's another 5 years before someone else could start a project? How long is to long and how much is not enough?

RNcyanide · Post by **RNcyanide** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:08 pm

MSizlack wrote:I've been as sceptitcal as most of you on this project, but we can't always have or cake and it it too. I certainly hope that it gets built to the original plans. I was told it would be downsized NOT by someone who works for Shamrock, but by someone who works for a larger developer here in town. So I'm certainly hoping the downsizing is not the case. IF it is downsized OR doesn't get off the ground, how long are you willing to wait? Since the ground breaking last year there has been all sorts of hate towards Shamrock, me included. But what if it's another 5 years before someone else could start a project? How long is to long and how much is not enough?

I don't care if that lot stays vacant for another 5 years. I don't want some mappy 5 or 6 story buildings with little to offer. I don't want the city to get cowed again with big promises and no delivery.

daveoma · Post by **daveoma** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:14 pm

I agree that Omaha would benefit tremendously from a new landmark in the skyline. I say better to wait for something more substantial. But do we know for sure that the project has been scaled down?

NEDodger · Post by **NEDodger** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:20 pm

Linkin5 wrote:Ideally they should cut out the office space and keep everything else.

Completely agree. To me, the important parts of this project are:

1.) The hotel
2.) The residences
3.) The entertainment area. I know a lot of people would swap 2 and 3, but as nice as an open-air area would be there are already entertainment options downtown. It's the downtown population that has to be boosted.

I'd prefer the office space gets scraped here and shift that to a Lanoha Tower.

S33 · Post by **S33** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:36 am

I feel like Bill Murray was the principle developer in both the Shamrock and Townsend projects, and he'd wake up every morning and complete the same exact tasks he did the day before, until the project decays under its own lack of inertia.

Similarities:

-Each developer proposes an ambitious project for North Downtown, a project which would be a first in each of their portfolios
-Developer acquires property from the city
-Developer issues press releases ad-nauseam citing project delays having something to do with "waiting on the bank to cross their t's and dot their I's" and/or "site surveying"
-Several years pass by with no progress outside of the standard ceremonial back-patting and photo-ops with a golden garden spade, but the project is still referenced as strong, financing negotiations remain on-going and said to be "30-90 days" out
-Rumblings of project scale being downsized/Townsend has an 8th grader photoshop the rendering to 50% scale

Whether this project moves forward or not, remains to be seen. I'm not "in-the-know" enough to determine what the status really is. But, what I do know, is that these are a couple big, red flags for the condition of the development market in downtown Omaha, and how precipitously close we could be to creating our own little development bubble in that area of town if a project like this is forced into fruition, when all metrics (most alarmingly, a lack of willful financiers) suggest interest for such a project, market wise, does not exist. Omaha has done a great job retrofitting old manufacturing/office space into living space, but has not exactly been pioneering much in the way of new construction projects specifically designed for urban living on this scale, and why should they? Developers gobbled up all the low-hanging fruit development-wise, and satisfied market demand.

Far less competent developers have successfully launched more ambitious projects, albeit, in much healthier markets. That is what is most alarming. In a microcosmic fashion, I think Omaha was due for a market correction downtown for some time; that kind of momentum could only last for so long. It could be some time before we see another impressive round of development, with or without this project.

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:56 am

This city would be way better off with a scaled down version of this than to let this go and hope something else happens 5 years later. If this gets cut to 250 rooms and 150 units that is still 400 people added to downtown on any given night. It also would activate a major corner and "fill out" the Cpatiol District area, in essence creating a second option for a night out DT. Not to mention bridging the gap between the Old Market and North Downtown.

I get that people would be bummed if it goes smaller, that is natural. What I think needs to be considered is that even 250 units is larger than any hotel built in this city since the city of Omaha payed for the Hilton. A 150 unit apartment project would be the largest new construction apartment project in a LONG time. People were hating on The Corvina this week, but it is the most substantial new built living project in DTO in a long time. This isn't a market that grows fast enough or brings enough outsiders to warrant all the cool stuff that we want. And trust me I could give examples of projects that are happening in Birmingham or OKC or Tulsa that dwarf the stuff we have going on.

Omaha has a lot of good stuff going on, but I don't think people appreciate the scale of physical area that it getting redone. Obviously DT is the most visible therefore is the area we want to do better. I would bet a lot that if we didn't have Benson or Blackstone or A/V or Dundee or Midtown that there would be gobs of millennials looking toward DT as their only real living option and it would be booming. The issue, or IMO strength, with Omaha is that we have a ton of options for a city our size of cool historic areas to live in. A lot of cities in our or a tier up from us don't have the type of neighborhoods thriving that we do. It keeps the DT development smaller, but makes the city stronger overall.

daveoma · Post by **daveoma** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:35 am

Well put Jacob, but why do you think the developers would scale back the apartment offerings when the 300 unit "The Wire" and 190 unit "The Highline" have been so successful?

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:51 am

daveoma wrote:Well put Jacob, but why do you think the developers would scale back the apartment offerings when the 300 unit "The Wire" and 190 unit "The Highline" have been so successful?

I tried to emphasize "new built" partially b/c it fits the narrative. I think it can still apply though since this project would still be new built and so much of DTO is rehab space.

As for The Wire and The Highline I totally recognize that they are major success stories. The two best things they have going for them is that in the majority of cases rehabbing/converting space is more economical than building from scratch. Also they have an awesome company behind them that knows the urban market in Omaha better than anyone else. NuStyle are incredible people and know what they are doing, especially when it comes to rehab and being creative with amenities. I am highly interested to see how their new investment for Highline 2 goes since it is their first new build(as far as I know). Also NuStyle is behind the residential at the Civic site which gives me a ton of optimism.

Round about way I am saying I do think there is a market for the residential projects at the next scale in Omaha. I just think there are so many other places a developer can get a great return with far less risk that we won't see that kind of investment for a while. There is a reason things likes Spaces, Midtown Triangle, The Conrad and even the proposed/shot down project at 70th and Cass are so popular to developers. Sure there are lots of young people that want to live further East, the issue is that there are still TONS of jobs out west. Being urban adjacent, but with good commute times, is where the smart investors are spending money.

And I am not trying to hate on skyscrapers. I wish we were throwing cranes up, b/c they do in fact look awesome. When I take myself back though I realize that in practically every city I go to I never find myself having the best time in the skyscraper areas. I am on 6th or Rainey or SoCo in Austin; or LoDo in Denver; or Crossroads or Westport in KC; or Deep Ellum in Dallas; or the north side of Chicago. Small business owners and human scaled buildings make for the most lively and fun areas IMO. And I am a huge fan of the small business owners in Omaha and I really think those areas are what makes this city worth living in a lot more than any new high rise would.

Garrett · Post by **Garrett** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:06 pm

Jacob gets it. Skyscrapers may be pretty but they mean very little for day to day experiences in the city. The best neighborhoods in Chicago have very little in the way of skyscrapers, beyond the lakefront.

MadMartin8 · Post by **MadMartin8** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:15 pm

I'd take one or two more Skyline SkyScrapers, and we could very easily have that with Tetrad and Lanoha.

For North Downtown, I just want people and ground level things to do.

RNcyanide · Post by **RNcyanide** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:47 pm

I get what you guys mean. But some follow through would be better.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:13 pm

Garrett wrote:Jacob gets it. Skyscrapers may be pretty but they mean very little for day to day experiences in the city. The best neighborhoods in Chicago have very little in the way of skyscrapers, beyond the lakefront.

Unless your day to day activity is working and or living in a skyscraper. Plus those pretty skyscrapers do wonders for local economy, you'd be surprised.

Garrett · Post by **Garrett** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:37 pm

MTO wrote:
Garrett wrote:Jacob gets it. Skyscrapers may be pretty but they mean very little for day to day experiences in the city. The best neighborhoods in Chicago have very little in the way of skyscrapers, beyond the lakefront.
Unless your day to day activity is working and or living in a skyscraper. Plus those pretty skyscrapers do wonders for local economy, you'd be surprised.

Oh, would I?

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:25 pm

I am not trying to argue that we would be better off with a downscaled project, we wouldn't. I am just trying to share my side of the rhetoric that seems to be we aren't doing anything worthwhile if it doesn't show up on the skyline.

OmahaJaysCU · Post by **OmahaJaysCU** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:37 pm

I have it on good authority the deal will close early next week. Keep your fingers crossed.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:40 pm

I hope so. I don't think Shamrock realizes how close they are to having us on their front lawn with torches.

RNcyanide · Post by **RNcyanide** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:41 pm

iamjacobm wrote:I am not trying to argue that we would be better off with a downscaled project, we wouldn't. I am just trying to share my side of the rhetoric that seems to be we aren't doing anything worthwhile if it doesn't show up on the skyline.

You speak volumes of wisdom, and the fact that you're looking at the project just being completed and contributing to our downtown economy regardless of being downsized or not is just evidence that you're way above me when it comes to being an adult about this.

What irks me still is that it's another failure at worst, or it a failure in leadership on the developer and foresight on the city at best. I'm afraid of what this means for future projects downtown. Does this mean that a developer can promise pies in the skies, then drag their feet for several years, reduce the package, and still get away with it?

And I guess the big thing to point out is that this place wouldn't actually have made a huge difference in the skyline anyway - it would have just filled a gap at certain angles.

Erik · Post by **Erik** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:42 pm

Iamjacobm, thank you. Your posts in this thread are a breath of frsh air after years of reading knee jerk reactions on this and many other boards. I use to be more like you, but found it to not be worthwhile. People love to eat optimistic, reasonable people alive.

swgiust · Post by **swgiust** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:20 am

As an owner at Ford Lofts, we cannot wait for this to get going. I know construction will be a pain for a couple of years, but it will be worth it. Get a hotel and 200+ apartments and lots of things become viable in the neighborhood. Coffee shop, small grocery store, café. Things we don't have now, that lots of other neighborhoods do. Nosh is a great wine bar, DJ's is as good a sports bar as there is, LOCAL could become a hit, and the empty Capital space would make a great pub (NOT A CLUB!). So as much as the focus has been in the project, I am excited for what it may bring. At a minimum a couple of restaurants and bars.

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:41 pm

Talked with someone directly involved again this morning. He said the contract is being finalized/signed and it will start any day now. He also said the hotel still has the original 330-350 rooms but there have been some changes to the exterior materials...nothing specific given as far as exactly what changed. Not to worry. That's all I've got for now.