Capitol District (NWC 10th & Capitol)

mr. omaha · Post by **mr. omaha** » Wed May 06, 2015 3:54 am

Das hotel ist kaput.

S33 · Post by **S33** » Wed May 06, 2015 2:47 pm

Townsend backing this project?

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Sun May 10, 2015 11:57 pm

Let's give a big thanks to Sharom for waiting until after Garth to start construction. It's been nearly three years but it's finally over.

RNcyanide · Post by **RNcyanide** » Mon May 11, 2015 1:19 am

Wait did they?

MadMartin8 · Post by **MadMartin8** » Mon May 11, 2015 6:49 pm

RNcyanide wrote:Wait did they?

No.

MTO:

I've been as vocal as anyone (well almost anyone...) about the failure here...but sometimes man, you just gotta let it go.

*cues the song from that Disney Movie*

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Mon May 11, 2015 6:54 pm

Mmmmm no

RNcyanide · Post by **RNcyanide** » Mon May 11, 2015 7:53 pm

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Mon May 11, 2015 8:08 pm

I know I hear ya

swgiust · Post by **swgiust** » Mon May 11, 2015 8:46 pm

I actually sent Shamrock an e-mail asking them the status. I will post any reply...

RNcyanide · Post by **RNcyanide** » Mon May 11, 2015 9:00 pm

I posted a sarcastic response on their FB page about the second anniversary of the groundbreaking. No attention paid to it apparently...

Hawkeye · Post by **Hawkeye** » Wed May 13, 2015 8:54 pm

RNcyanide wrote:I posted a sarcastic response on their FB page about the second anniversary of the groundbreaking. No attention paid to it apparently...

Ol' Hawkeye knows we're not supposed to do the comparison thing any more than we need to....but just for a little perspective:

OMAHA
11/2011 – Shamrock chosen to redevelop Swanson site in DT Omaha
2012 - Nada
2013 - Nothing
2014 - What? Who? Us??
5/2015 – The more things don't change...the more they stay the same

Meanwhile....

MINNEAPOLIS
5/2012 – Minnesota State Legislature approves funding plan for new Vikings stadium.
8/2012 – Architectural bids received
9/2012 – HKS chosen.
12/2013 – Construction begins.
5/2014 – With stadium chugging ahead, concurrent development by Ryan Companies of the 5-block area adjacent to the stadium begins. This will include a large park, two 20-story buildings, and much more. http://www.ryancompanies.com/projects/downtown-east/
5/2015: Construction cam: http://oxblue.com/open/ryanco/downtowneast
And another construction cam:
http://webcampub.multivista.com/index.c ... 298F7B8EF9

Think about that for a moment. All of this has happened on just one somewhat similar size/scale project in Minneapolis since six months AFTER Shamrock was chosen as the developer in Omaha. And with a 2016 completion date, there is actually a very real possibility that it will all be completed before the first mechanized construction-related vehicle starts its engine on the Swanson site.

Sad…disappointing…ridiculous…(insert favorite adjective of outrage here). And most importantly, to those of us who follow this shi....errr.....stuff in the Omaha/CB metro area, this is not even the slightest bit surprising.

MadMartin8 · Post by **MadMartin8** » Wed May 13, 2015 9:44 pm

I get the point you're trying to make, but I'm going to venture to say there's at least a slight difference between the markets of the Twin Cities and Omaha that are underlying factors.

S33 · Post by **S33** » Thu May 14, 2015 12:47 am

MTO wrote:

Is that a wormhole around 680 I see?

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Thu May 14, 2015 1:07 am

I think it's a booger.

Hawkeye · Post by **Hawkeye** » Thu May 14, 2015 2:01 pm

MadMartin8 wrote:I get the point you're trying to make, but I'm going to venture to say there's at least a slight difference between the markets of the Twin Cities and Omaha that are underlying factors.

But on a "per capita" or percentage basis, the project in Mlps, which is just one of many in the Twin Cities metro of approx 3.5M people (or just a bit less than 4x the size of Omaha metro) represents about the same ratio of project to metro size as the Shamrock one does in Omaha.

The point is...if a metro the size of MSP has maybe 5 or 6 projects like this underway, you would think Omaha would certainly be able to have ONE. The main difference, most likely, is how risk averse the Omaha business and municipal leadership are compared to many other cities. Utterly, mind-numbingly, incomprehensibly, maddeningly ultra-conservatively risk averse.

And trust me...not everything they've done here has turned out smelling like a rose. But at least Twin Cities leaders occasionally make efforts and try to do some of these projects and heck.......you're not going to bowl a 300 every time out, but if you roll the ball enough, you're going to get a number of strikes. The problem with Omaha/CB is, they don't seem to even want to take the ball out of the bag, throw on the shoes, and slide step on up to the foul line and let 'er go and see what happens.

Greg S · Post by **Greg S** » Thu May 14, 2015 2:03 pm

Hawkeye wrote:
RNcyanide wrote:I posted a sarcastic response on their FB page about the second anniversary of the groundbreaking. No attention paid to it apparently...
Ol' Hawkeye knows we're not supposed to do the comparison thing any more than we need to....but just for a little perspective:

OMAHA
11/2011 – Shamrock chosen to redevelop Swanson site in DT Omaha
2012 - Nada
2013 - Nothing
2014 - What? Who? Us??
5/2015 – The more things don't change...the more they stay the same

Meanwhile....

MINNEAPOLIS
5/2012 – Minnesota State Legislature approves funding plan for new Vikings stadium.
8/2012 – Architectural bids received
9/2012 – HKS chosen.
12/2013 – Construction begins.
5/2014 – With stadium chugging ahead, concurrent development by Ryan Companies of the 5-block area adjacent to the stadium begins. This will include a large park, two 20-story buildings, and much more. http://www.ryancompanies.com/projects/downtown-east/
5/2015: Construction cam: http://oxblue.com/open/ryanco/downtowneast
And another construction cam:
http://webcampub.multivista.com/index.c ... 298F7B8EF9

Think about that for a moment. All of this has happened on just one somewhat similar size/scale project in Minneapolis since six months AFTER Shamrock was chosen as the developer in Omaha. And with a 2016 completion date, there is actually a very real possibility that it will all be completed before the first mechanized construction-related vehicle starts its engine on the Swanson site.

Sad…disappointing…ridiculous…(insert favorite adjective of outrage here). And most importantly, to those of us who follow this shi....errr.....stuff in the Omaha/CB metro area, this is not even the slightest bit surprising.

That stadium took YEARS to get to that point at 5/12.

Greg

Hawkeye · Post by **Hawkeye** » Thu May 14, 2015 2:05 pm

MTO wrote:I think it's a booger.

Maybe the freeway is on Alli for weight loss. It's known to cause flatulence with oily spotting.

Hawkeye · Post by **Hawkeye** » Thu May 14, 2015 2:25 pm

Greg S wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
RNcyanide wrote:I posted a sarcastic response on their FB page about the second anniversary of the groundbreaking. No attention paid to it apparently...
Ol' Hawkeye knows we're not supposed to do the comparison thing any more than we need to....but just for a little perspective:

OMAHA
11/2011 – Shamrock chosen to redevelop Swanson site in DT Omaha
2012 - Nada
2013 - Nothing
2014 - What? Who? Us??
5/2015 – The more things don't change...the more they stay the same

Meanwhile....

MINNEAPOLIS
5/2012 – Minnesota State Legislature approves funding plan for new Vikings stadium.
8/2012 – Architectural bids received
9/2012 – HKS chosen.
12/2013 – Construction begins.
5/2014 – With stadium chugging ahead, concurrent development by Ryan Companies of the 5-block area adjacent to the stadium begins. This will include a large park, two 20-story buildings, and much more. http://www.ryancompanies.com/projects/downtown-east/
5/2015: Construction cam: http://oxblue.com/open/ryanco/downtowneast
And another construction cam:
http://webcampub.multivista.com/index.c ... 298F7B8EF9

Think about that for a moment. All of this has happened on just one somewhat similar size/scale project in Minneapolis since six months AFTER Shamrock was chosen as the developer in Omaha. And with a 2016 completion date, there is actually a very real possibility that it will all be completed before the first mechanized construction-related vehicle starts its engine on the Swanson site.

Sad…disappointing…ridiculous…(insert favorite adjective of outrage here). And most importantly, to those of us who follow this shi....errr.....stuff in the Omaha/CB metro area, this is not even the slightest bit surprising.

That stadium took YEARS to get to that point at 5/12.

Greg

I'm painfully aware of how long the new Vikings stadium was debated and argued about before it was approved and construction began. And for the record, I was not a big proponent of it because I knew that the funding plan (primarily e-pulltabs) was utterly laughable and would fall WAY short of the goals. It was supposed to raise something like $35M per year and in its first year it raised less than $2M. So I'm not commenting here as some big pro-stadium, let's build everything that gets proposed and hope we can fill it bobo. The point I was trying to make is that Omaha is more than robust enough as a metro area to tackle this ONE significant project....but unfortunately it's civic and business leaders just don't seem to have the stomach for it. Cities and developers that want to make something happen, find creative ways to overcome funding issues, tax obstacles, public dissent, and so forth. They don't just let projects twist in the wind waiting for only the absolute most iron-clad perfect storm of circumstances that 100% guarantees complete success before pulling the trigger. If all cities worked that way, there would be no cities. I was employed at a large commercial real estate developer in the Twin Cities for 3 years, so I am familiar with the machinations of how these types of projects unfold.

And to your main point, the Pinnacle/Swanson plant was closed for nearly 7 years before Shamrock was chosen to redevelop it. So it's not like that one turned on a dime compared to the admittedly long-form discussion around replacing the Metrodome.

nativeomahan · Post by **nativeomahan** » Thu May 14, 2015 3:21 pm

We would all feel better and be happier if this thread just up and went away.

S33 · Post by **S33** » Thu May 14, 2015 3:28 pm

Hawkeye wrote:
MTO wrote:I think it's a booger.
Maybe the freeway is on Alli for weight loss. It's known to cause flatulence with oily spotting.

Oh, that's fu*king disgusting.

Hawkeye · Post by **Hawkeye** » Thu May 14, 2015 3:28 pm

nativeomahan wrote:We would all feel better and be happier if this thread just up and went away.

Maybe we should replace it with debate about the pros and cons of the Vortex tower.

RNcyanide · Post by **RNcyanide** » Thu May 14, 2015 4:07 pm

If I had the free time, I'd love to see how many of these posts actually pertain to factual information, updates, and rumors vs. complaining about the project, the city, and what everyone else is doing. My guess is that the latter beats the former by far more than half.

S33 · Post by **S33** » Thu May 14, 2015 4:43 pm

RNcyanide wrote:If I had the free time, I'd love to see how many of these posts actually pertain to factual information, updates, and rumors vs. complaining about the project, the city, and what everyone else is doing. My guess is that the latter beats the former by far more than half.

The project doesn't appear to be moving forward, therefore there really isn't much to objectively discuss about the project. Would you prefer the thread to simply die off?

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Thu May 14, 2015 5:01 pm

Hawkeye wrote: Ol' Hawkeye knows we're not supposed to do the comparison thing any more than we need to....but just for a little perspective:

OMAHA
11/2011 – Shamrock chosen to redevelop Swanson site in DT Omaha
2012 - Nada
2013 - Nothing
2014 - What? Who? Us??
5/2015 – The more things don't change...the more they stay the same

This description is missing most of the things that were happening behind the scenes during that time frame...Like Design Development, Cost Estimating, Structural-Mechanical-Electrical-Civil Engineering, Construction Document preparation, Subcontractor Bidding, Financing, Re-bidding for cost reductions, Negotiations, Plan Review...to name a few.

I'm not saying that it isn't taking too long, only that there are many things that happen that you never read about on this forum. It is a long process. Construction is just the end result.

Post by **BRoss** » Thu May 14, 2015 5:15 pm

S33 wrote:
RNcyanide wrote:If I had the free time, I'd love to see how many of these posts actually pertain to factual information, updates, and rumors vs. complaining about the project, the city, and what everyone else is doing. My guess is that the latter beats the former by far more than half.
The project doesn't appear to be moving forward, therefore there really isn't much to objectively discuss about the project. Would you prefer the thread to simply die off?

I kind of think it would be better to start a new thread for all the complaining and leave this one for when there truly is some update.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Thu May 14, 2015 5:20 pm

The city should give them a deadline and if not met than issue another RFP.

skinzfan23 · Post by **skinzfan23** » Thu May 14, 2015 5:23 pm

HR Paperstacks wrote:
S33 wrote:
RNcyanide wrote:If I had the free time, I'd love to see how many of these posts actually pertain to factual information, updates, and rumors vs. complaining about the project, the city, and what everyone else is doing. My guess is that the latter beats the former by far more than half.
The project doesn't appear to be moving forward, therefore there really isn't much to objectively discuss about the project. Would you prefer the thread to simply die off?
I kind of think it would be better to start a new thread for all the complaining and leave this one for when there truly is some update.

I completely agree.

Hawkeye · Post by **Hawkeye** » Thu May 14, 2015 5:48 pm

GetUrban wrote:
Hawkeye wrote: Ol' Hawkeye knows we're not supposed to do the comparison thing any more than we need to....but just for a little perspective:

OMAHA
11/2011 – Shamrock chosen to redevelop Swanson site in DT Omaha
2012 - Nada
2013 - Nothing
2014 - What? Who? Us??
5/2015 – The more things don't change...the more they stay the same
This description is missing most of the things that were happening behind the scenes during that time frame...Like Design Development, Cost Estimating, Structural-Mechanical-Electrical-Civil Engineering, Construction Document preparation, Subcontractor Bidding, Financing, Re-bidding for cost reductions, Negotiations, Plan Review...to name a few.

I'm not saying that it isn't taking too long, only that there are many things that happen that you never read about on this forum. It is a long process. Construction is just the end result.

Having worked in commercial real estate development, as stated prior, I am well aware of those activities. And at the end of the day, they are the same for virtually all projects and do not create inordinate delays from developer selection to construction initiation. They are pretty much standard operating procedure. The aforementioned Mlps project had all (or the vast majority) of those same elements to work through as well, and yet it did not stall out for 4 years.

It's like saying, "Ford previewed this great looking concept car at the 2011 Auto Show and 4 year later they still haven't built it". Oh sure, you could detail all of the steps they may have been going through in the interim such as doing market research, design studies, further R&D, tweaking options, modifying engines and drivetrains, preparing marketing materials, etc. But at the end of the day, every car company would have those same elements to contend with in getting a car from concept to showroom and if one of them did it faster, people would be right to question why Ford failed where, say, Chevrolet succeeded. Those activities and challenges of bringing a car to market would certainly not be unique to Ford.

So yes, the comparative RE development projects we're talking about here didn't just skip all those steps you outlined, and yet somehow they still managed to get the steel rising, while Omaha is left with an empty lot.

And please understand one other thing....I'm as big of a proponent for the Omaha metro area's growth and prosperity as anyone you will meet. I grew up there. I have family still living there. My father worked for 30+ years for the U.P. on the very grounds where the fabulous CLink sits today. Fiscal conservatism has helped Omaha survive better than most cities during the past 7 years of economic uncertainty, no doubt about it. But I want Omaha to be even more awesome than it already is. And when I see other cities doing things that Omaha could absolutely be doing and that are reasonable (not an over-reach)...when I see achievable projects announced over and over with great fanfare, only to end up withering on the vine...it leaves me scratching my head in wonder, yet still holding out a glimmer of hope that things will ultimately come to fruition.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Thu May 14, 2015 5:50 pm

You guys go realize any of you could start a new thread at any time don't you?

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Thu May 14, 2015 6:08 pm

Other than lack of visible action, the only thing missing is an official explanation or timeline of what exactly has been happening since 2011, and when we can expect something to happen on site. The rest is just speculation and little bits and pieces of what people are hearing on the street.

Sounds like a good scoop for an investigative reporter to pursue.

MadMartin8 · Post by **MadMartin8** » Thu May 14, 2015 7:05 pm

I don't think this thread is any different than any other thread we've ever had here on a development. Discussions on opportunities, missed opportunities, complaints about size, complaints about not enough "street presence", insiders sharing what they hear and think they hear, etc.

Hawkeye · Post by **Hawkeye** » Thu May 14, 2015 8:10 pm

MTO wrote:You guys go realize any of you could start a new thread at any time don't you?

Meh.

guy4omaha · Post by **guy4omaha** » Fri May 15, 2015 2:00 am

Hawkeye wrote: . . . is how risk averse the Omaha business and municipal leadership are compared to many other cities. Utterly, mind-numbingly, incomprehensibly, maddeningly ultra-conservatively risk averse.

. . . The problem with Omaha/CB is, they don't seem to even want to take the ball out of the bag, throw on the shoes, and slide step on up to the foul line and let 'er go and see what happens.

Really? Aren't we being a little over dramatic. Unless we're saying we're willing to personally risk 10s and 100s of millions of dollars personally that we're willing to lose and have committed uber hours to convince lenders to take the risk and then got the lenders to do it, then how convenient it is for us to criticize other people's risk taking, money spending, financing, etc. If you don't like what's going on and don't think they have big enough balls then just step forward and show them how it's done.

I would like to see this and Lanaha and Tetrad all go up. And yes it's disappointing. But the city isn't going to die if these things don't get built.

skinzfan23 · Post by **skinzfan23** » Fri May 15, 2015 2:18 am

guy4omaha wrote:
I would like to see this and Lanaha and Tetrad all go up. And yes it's disappointing. But the city isn't going to die if these things don't get built.

Well put!!!

S33 · Post by **S33** » Fri May 15, 2015 2:28 am

Nobody needs to get butthurt if this is not built, absolutely true. However, I think it may be prudent from all sides to find out exactly what is going on that is preventing these projects from coming to life, if in fact this becomes a pattern.

I would say that if crossroads isn't done or is massively scaled back, if lanaha, Tetrad and Shamrock all fail or are also scaled back significantly, then there is a problem.

In the future, it may arm the city with better knowledge on who is more capable of fulfilling the RFP.

I don't need 125 million dollars to risk to have an opinion on this.

Remember, this isn't exactly free for the city. They pay the experts, they hold countless meetings, and pay for super expensive studies. Hopefully they can bat at least .500 with the proposals currently sitting on the table.

Garrett · Post by **Garrett** » Fri May 15, 2015 8:55 am

A little part of me dies every time I read this thread.

Linkin5 · Post by **Linkin5** » Fri May 15, 2015 1:37 pm

S33 wrote:Nobody needs to get butthurt if this is not built, absolutely true. However, I think it may be prudent from all sides to find out exactly what is going on that is preventing these projects from coming to life, if in fact this becomes a pattern.

Well this is pretty much the easiest question to answer, the funding for the project fell through.

GetUrban · Post by **GetUrban** » Fri May 15, 2015 2:15 pm

Linkin5 wrote:
S33 wrote:Nobody needs to get butthurt if this is not built, absolutely true. However, I think it may be prudent from all sides to find out exactly what is going on that is preventing these projects from coming to life, if in fact this becomes a pattern.

Well this is pretty much the easiest question to answer, the funding for the project fell through.

It's easy to answer that question wrong too, without any official announcement saying so.

swgiust · Post by **swgiust** » Fri May 15, 2015 2:26 pm

Here is a copy of an e-mail that I sent to the news director at the Omaha World Herald this morning:

Good morning Mike,

My name is S** G*** and I am an owner at the Ford Lofts at 10th and Dodge.
We were very excited when the city announced the hotel and retail development
at 10th and Capital.

Projects like this are vital to our city. But as a taxpayer I am also aware of the cost.
I would assume the city has spent considerable amounts of money on some of the
up fronts for a project like this.

So it is prudent that we get some sort of results. And this brings me to the reason
for this e-mail. There has been very little public information on the status of this
project. Shamrock was granted this bid in 2011.

So I am asking for a little investigative reporting on this subject. What is going on?
Is the project dead? Is there a start date? Has Shamrock been able to get financing?

This is information that I would like to know, but I think it is also good information
for the city as a whole.

You might also jump over to eomahaforums.com and review the thread on this subject.

Thanks,
S** G**

Linkin5 · Post by **Linkin5** » Fri May 15, 2015 3:09 pm

GetUrban wrote:
Linkin5 wrote:
S33 wrote:Nobody needs to get butthurt if this is not built, absolutely true. However, I think it may be prudent from all sides to find out exactly what is going on that is preventing these projects from coming to life, if in fact this becomes a pattern.

Well this is pretty much the easiest question to answer, the funding for the project fell through.
It's easy to answer that question wrong too, without any official announcement saying so.

What other reason could there be except failed funding?