Omaha Streetcar Discussion

Post by **BRoss** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:43 am

bigredmed1 wrote:
HR Paperstacks wrote:
bigredmed1 wrote:
GrandpaaSmucker wrote:No way are they going to let people have an honest vote on this. They are prepared to lie steal and cheat to get this in and they could care less if we want it or not. Looks like they are about to tell us that its going to pay for itself so they can build it if they want and they won't be needing our permission.
Have to agree with you.
When will you be mad and want votes on all road widening projects? Or yet again is it you just support projects you benefit from and screw all the people in this area that can benefit from this?

People need to realize that not all taxpayer projects will benefit them directly. But they are for the greater good of the overall community. If you can have 168th St widened then why can't people in the core get a project that benefits them? And why is it so hard for some people to get this point? The outer fringes of the city are not the only thing we should be focusing on. Let's try not being selfish and supporting only things that will benefit yourself.

There's so much complaining about anything that is not a road widening project for some stupid reason. While I personally like them (I'm a bit of an infrastructure nerd), I also see the need to do more than just that. The population density is much higher in this part of town and widening just wouldn't work. Plus you would have to tear down a lot of development to do so. And we can't just keep widening I-80.

One last thing to keep in mind - continuing to just support low density development (which is what you get when widening roads on the fringes) will only spread city services thinner and thinner and causing the cost of these things (taxes) to go up. Why not support efforts at making higher population densities to stop the sprawl?

Let's be smart about city planning.
Thinking hard about blocking you. Really tired of your assumptions.

Or you could provide a rebuttal of why I'm wrong.

TitosBuritoBarn · Post by **TitosBuritoBarn** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:09 am

There’s definitely a right way and a wrong to construct a street car line and I can’t yet tell if it’ll be a viable transportation system or a toy. I’m anxious to see a more concrete plan.

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:27 pm

TitosBuritoBarn wrote:There’s definitely a right way and a wrong to construct a street car line and I can’t yet tell if it’ll be a viable transportation system or a toy. I’m anxious to see a more concrete plan.

And bingo! There in lies the $64,000 question (or should I say $170 million)..

This new plan reminds me of when I was a kid, and sometimes didn’t tie the shoelaces on my sneakers (or cleats) just right.. they, invariably, became loose then untied..and if I was playing football or basketball, unnoticed, I’d trip, stumble and sometimes fall..

I read the plan. And I think a group of us Omaha forum enthusiasts could have come up with an even more concrete plan and saved Metro $610,000..

In the end, to ensure the city doesn’t trip, stumble and fall.. We need, as Tito’s has stated, a more concrete/solid vision/plan..

Speaking for myself, the plan I read just doesn’t feel completely right..and that’s concerning..AND raises more questions...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

Garrett · Post by **Garrett** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:33 pm

bigredmed1 wrote:
GrandpaaSmucker wrote:No way are they going to let people have an honest vote on this. They are prepared to lie steal and cheat to get this in and they could care less if we want it or not. Looks like they are about to tell us that its going to pay for itself so they can build it if they want and they won't be needing our permission.
Have to agree with you.

Settle down you two. Funding hasn’t even been discussed yet. Likely it will be something like Kansas City where only those in the corridor pay for it. The expansions of 168th et. al are being paid for by the whole city and certainly won’t pay for themselves.

Busguy2010 · Post by **Busguy2010** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:00 pm

So far I think most people see a headline about the streetcar and they immediately love it or loathe it, without delving into the details.

This submission is still the initial concept and things such as possible future extensions are things that will be considered before the first route is built. I personally have offered up some pretty obvious extension opportunities in the past. Im currently working on a comprehensive omaha transportation master plan that could potentially be looked at for consideration by people who might actually be able to implement some aspects of it.

There definitely is work being done to consider the bigger picture. Understandably, most people dont... understand that yet, but youll see it eventually.

GrandpaaSmucker · Post by **GrandpaaSmucker** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:18 pm

HR Paperstacks wrote:If you can have 168th St widened then why can't people in the core get a project that benefits them? And why is it so hard for some people to get this point? The outer fringes of the city are not the only thing we should be focusing on. Let's try not being selfish and supporting only things that will benefit yourself.

Ok Mr I live at Mid Town Crossing. Do tell us all about being selfish.

Pot calling the kettle black

Don't get me wrong if I lived there I would be streetcar ready too.

GrandpaaSmucker · Post by **GrandpaaSmucker** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:34 pm

Busguy2010 wrote:So far I think most people see a headline about the streetcar and they immediately love it or loathe it, without delving into the details.

The headline on the World Herald website reads "Report pegs cost of Omaha streetcar at $170 million; Stothert wants city vote if tax money is used' however on the front page of my morning newspaper the headline was this "Public May Get Chance to vote on Streetcar"

Even a 10 year old kid knows that when "may" is used in a sentence like that it can be sketchy at best. Why did the Fake News have 2 different headlines for the same article. I mean come on the Mayor wanting us to have a vote vs we may get to vote.

This thing smells of a scam and a sham is why we dont like it.

MSizlack · Post by **MSizlack** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:06 pm

At it stands, this is a very self-serving, short sighted idea. If Omaha wants a street car system that works, it needs to be fully committed. The proposed routes are geared toward those who will be doing development along those routes. Go all in and connect Baxster Arena, AV, UNO, UNMC, midtown, Creighton, TD park, Century Link, and Eppley. Those areas have the population and demographic that would support a streetcar daily and be used by others for events and travelers. If you think that by piece mealing it together over time, the chances it happens are poor. As costs rise (I was told its $50M a mile with an average of 5-8% increase yr over yr due to labor, product cost and unforeseen issues) and city budgets getting thinner, transportation looses to many other needs. Throw in a down turn or recession for the economy and it becomes less likely. So unless Omaha is willing to take on the project fully, issue bonds, find some more tax money, and have it operate so as to support a much larger population base, I have grave doubts it will be nothing more than a short term benefit to a very few.

Erik · Post by **Erik** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:26 pm

Meh... They are insincere. This study is meant to keep false hopes alive and to pay $600,000 to some half-cocked entity with half-cocked expectations this will be done.

It'll never happen and I am sick of wasting money on fruitless studies. It really needs to stop.

Busguy2010 · Post by **Busguy2010** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:16 pm

Wow, I'm surprised by the reactions here. I think it is a good plan for what it is. A streetcar is purely and URBAN transportation solution and it is never meant to do what it seems most of you are expecting. It seems what y'all are looking for is light rail or rapid transit, which are very, very different forms of transportation.

As a Streetcar, this plan will be good. This route we're talking about is the backbone of what could end up being a very successful system, from what I expect. From what I've been a part of for the last 5 or more years, I can tell you this is a real plan. It's in no way comparable to the Hal Daub and Mike Fahey plans. It may seem incomplete at this point, but we've got some general ideas for extensions, it's just not time yet to consider how they'll be integrated. We have to finalize this plan first. It makes sense to me.

Another thing is it's highly unlikely to impact metro's budget in a crippling way. These people are smarter than they get credit for. They're not going to jeopardize the entire bus system to build a streetcar route, that will serve a small section of the city at first, but will become an integral piece of our transportation system in a short time.

After I complete my transportation master plan, I'm going to share it with any impactful people. At the very least, if these people turn out not to have a clue, I will at least have done my best to try and influence it.

OmahaJaysCU · Post by **OmahaJaysCU** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:29 pm

Am I trying to make something out or nothing but the report uses "will" instead of "can" or "could"...

I continue to support the project, but I also agree with a lot of the sentiment that this will happen one way or another. They'll do it whether or not it's popular. Foundations, corporations, city money, and some kind of revenue recapture along the route will pay for it.

MSizlack · Post by **MSizlack** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:17 pm

In regards to Busguy2010 post, when there are concerns from the developers, business leaders, mayors office and others that Omaha needs a mass transit system to retain young talent, attract young talent, attract new business(es) to the city and grow the downtown portion of Omaha, this well thought out "backbone" it going to do this?! I find its potential extremely limited to do ANY of that. If your looking for something that's cool but very limited, as its proposed, it fits. But to create something that has the potential to grow Omaha and address those issues about a urban mass transit system, it falls very short.

Busguy2010 · Post by **Busguy2010** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:34 pm

MSizlack wrote:In regards to Busguy2010 post, when there are concerns from the developers, business leaders, mayors office and others that Omaha needs a mass transit system to retain young talent, attract young talent, attract new business(es) to the city and grow the downtown portion of Omaha, this well thought out "backbone" it going to do this?! I find its potential extremely limited to do ANY of that. If your looking for something that's cool but very limited, as its proposed, it fits. But to create something that has the potential to grow Omaha and address those issues about a urban mass transit system, it falls very short.

I see it as part of a system, and I've offered up my plans on this site a lot of times, and I can bring it back up later at the right computer. To me, I've thought of a good plan and by sharing it with the right people, it can influence the actual planning going forward. This Farnam route alone will mainly benefit businesses and residents on Farnam and within the immediate 1/4 mile in either direction, which turns out to actually be a lot of people, present and future.

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:14 pm

I agree 100% with MSizlack.. This “plan” as presented.. Leaves many questions and MUCH to be desired..

Thus, my continued commentary that the “plan” brings up many more questions than answers regarding the feasibility of Streetcars for Omaha..

IMO, this can’t and shouldn’t be an “event only” streetcar toy that benefits Omaha during a CWS event etc.. This plan should be a DAILY DRIVER..One which Omahans can use everyday for transport regardless the time of year..

Look, we have a baseball stadium downtown, which I supported should be built 9 years ago..even though the Omaha Royals (Stormchasers) were not part of the plan. Today, The Ameritrade Baseball Park has been an event only structure designed solely for the 2 week run of the CWS. I naively hoped back in 2009, Omaha could attract and/or create other tenants/events to, at least, make it a stadium used for 6 months out of a year.. Here we are in 2018, and other than a few Creighton baseball games and other carefully planned events, we have a 25,000 seat baseball stadium that goes unused for 10 months out of the year.. AND in 2018, this does not settle well with me..

Now, I know a streetcar line, as proposed, is quite a bit of a different animal for sure.. But I get the sense, as presently proposed, the “plan” is to build an event only streetcar line which is NOT a representation for an all in, completely dedicated system which plans to move Omahans about the midtown to downtown corridor on a DAILY use basis..

We need to see more and frankly, Omaha deserves more than this “plan” has intimated.. I can only hope you are right Busguy2010..that there is MUCH more than meets the eye to this current Omaha streetcar “plan”..Because as presently constituted, it is something that as a citizen and proponent of Omaha, I cannot willingly support...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

Busguy2010 · Post by **Busguy2010** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:04 pm

Omaha Cowboy wrote:IMO, this can’t and shouldn’t be an “event only” streetcar toy that benefits Omaha during a CWS event etc.. This plan should be a DAILY DRIVER..One which Omahans can use everyday for transport regardless the time of year.

It's in no way an event only toy. I think in the report it even said how normally, the streetcar wouldn't be very useful for the events, and they would have to use extra cars for it to be useful and that isn't yet known to be something they'd do.

You have to think about how many high density developments this thing will be passing by. Just go along the route in your head, or even better in real life. You can see all the empty lots it passes by, all the smaller developments that would have been bigger had it been there already, all the potential building conversions, all the jobs, and it'll start to make more sense. I just did it the other day and I really, really think this will be a sure thing. Even more so once it's extended into Creighton.

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:36 pm

Busguy2010 wrote:
Omaha Cowboy wrote:IMO, this can’t and shouldn’t be an “event only” streetcar toy that benefits Omaha during a CWS event etc.. This plan should be a DAILY DRIVER..One which Omahans can use everyday for transport regardless the time of year.
It's in no way an event only toy. I think in the report it even said how normally, the streetcar wouldn't be very useful for the events, and they would have to use extra cars for it to be useful and that isn't yet known to be something they'd do.

You have to think about how many high density developments this thing will be passing by. Just go along the route in your head, or even better in real life. You can see all the empty lots it passes by, all the smaller developments that would have been bigger had it been there already, all the potential building conversions, all the jobs, and it'll start to make more sense. I just did it the other day and I really, really think this will be a sure thing. Even more so once it's extended into Creighton.

From the W-H piece this morning:

“The report based its cost estimate on a route that goes from 10th and Cass Streets in downtown Omaha to 42nd Street in midtown. It would travel on 10th Street, Farnam and Harney Streets. That's the main route that has been contemplated since Omaha's most recent streetcar exploration began in earnest in 2014. The route would travel 3 miles and have 13 stations.”..

From the initial beginnings, I feel the streetcar line should provide more comprehensive service than this. Extend it too Cuming Street and within the heart of North Downtown development, all the way to Eppley, then back through North Downtown then on to 10th and Cass etc.. This would provide a much higher commitment to the initial streetcar line being more of a daily driver passenger user.. than the “study” intimates at present..

I get what you’re saying from a conceptual standpoint..and I felt the same way back, nearly 10 years ago, when the NCAA basically held the city hostage and Omaha caved in and built a 25,000 seat baseball stadium for a 2 week college baseball event.. and 10 years later, we have a beautiful, still shiney and “newer” baseball stadium which sits empty for basically 46 out of 52 weeks in a year..

On a streetcar level, I don’t want to see the city make a simliar decision.. There needs to be more contcrete, detailed vision and planning than what was proposed the other day to garner my ultimate support...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

Busguy2010 · Post by **Busguy2010** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:53 pm

Omaha Cowboy wrote:From the initial beginnings, I feel the streetcar line should provide more comprehensive service than this. Extend it too Cuming Street and within the heart of North Downtown development, all the way to Eppley, then back through North Downtown then on to 10th and Cass etc.. This would provide a much higher commitment to the initial streetcar line being more of a daily driver passenger user.. than the “study” intimates at present..

Ciao..LiO...Peace

I don't disagree that maybe going through North North downtown would be a good thing, but I also like how it is planned to go directly to Creighton and hit that dilapidated area between 15th and 17th.

I understand why everyone wants to see it do something more, especially go to the airport, but that is out of the context of a streetcar.

It's kind of hard to explain the difference between that and light rail, and why their features shouldn't be mixed but I'll try.

The reason why it's not the job of a streetcar to serve our airport is because it simply wouldn't be competitive with other modes of transportation. A streetcar isn't meant for long distance travel. This is because streetcars are designed to stop approximately every 1/4 mile (which is very close together). Now, imagine you'd like to start at 42nd and Farnam and go to the airport. You would stop approximately 10 times. All this stopping makes for a slow trip. I imagine this streetcar will be no improvement in terms of trip time over the 15 bus route. So by the time you've gotten to the airport portion, you've already spent an approximation of 20 minutes, add on the almost 10 minutes to the airport and that's 30 minutes. longer than by bus, or Uber, or whatever.

Now, light rail, or subway/rapid transit systems are designed to move people long distances at a rate that is competitive and sometimes better compared to other modes of transportation. They accomplish this by spacing stops about a mile or more on average and they go fast. I'm sure we all know this.

An airport trip is best suited for light rail due to the airport being a high demand destination, and its relative distance from a large amount of residents. So if you make the mistake of connecting that to a streetcar, you automatically limit the scope of the train system as a whole, be it streetcar or light rail. Based on mixing a fast and slow form of transit, you mitigate the positive aspects of both forms.

GrowUpFrances · Post by **GrowUpFrances** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:52 am

The reason why it's not the job of a streetcar to serve our airport is because it simply wouldn't be competitive with other modes of transportation. A streetcar isn't meant for long distance travel. This is because streetcars are designed to stop approximately every 1/4 mile (which is very close together). Now, imagine you'd like to start at 42nd and Farnam and go to the airport. You would stop approximately 10 times. All this stopping makes for a slow trip. I imagine this streetcar will be no improvement in terms of trip time over the 15 bus route. So by the time you've gotten to the airport portion, you've already spent an approximation of 20 minutes, add on the almost 10 minutes to the airport and that's 30 minutes. longer than by bus, or Uber, or whatever.

Now, light rail, or subway/rapid transit systems are designed to move people long distances at a rate that is competitive and sometimes better compared to other modes of transportation. They accomplish this by spacing stops about a mile or more on average and they go fast. I'm sure we all know this.

An airport trip is best suited for light rail due to the airport being a high demand destination, and its relative distance from a large amount of residents. So if you make the mistake of connecting that to a streetcar, you automatically limit the scope of the train system as a whole, be it streetcar or light rail. Based on mixing a fast and slow form of transit, you mitigate the positive aspects of both forms.

This is an excellent point. But, to me, it begs the question:   What do Omahans actually want when it comes to rail transit? A streetcar or a light rail?  It seems a few posters, myself included, are more interested in a transportation system that can be used regularly, by many people, to get from home to work, entertainment or civic destinations; i.e. less reliance on cars, parking garages, Ubers, etc.

So why is a streetcar the only thing being considered? And why all the focus on Kansas City? Why aren’t we thinking bigger, like Minneapolis has? Or Denver?

I just fail to understand how the proposed plan will result in substantial economic influence two, three or five years from now when areas like Blackstone, Midtown Crossing, North Downtown, the Old Market and even Auto Row (just starting, but to an extent) are already developing themselves. The economy is good. People are already acting—without a streetcar.

Would these redevelopments be bigger and better if there were a streetcar component? Sure, maybe. But the fact is, things are already in the works.

There’s a basic principle of design: form follows function. In my opinion, this streetcar plan is function following form.

Busguy2010 · Post by **Busguy2010** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:24 am

GrowUpFrances wrote:So why is a streetcar the only thing being considered? And why all the focus on Kansas City? Why aren’t we thinking bigger, like Minneapolis has? Or Denver?

I have always thought we should think bigger, personally. I've been thinking about light rail in Omaha for a long time. I think most people in our city oppose it because of the high cost, vs our relative non-issue traffic. Whereas most cities have built rail systems as a result of clogged buses and highways, Omaha would be building as a preventative to those issues.

I just want to make it clear that I view rapid transit as the superior mode of transportation, hands down. This includes any rail transit that is grade separated and has exclusive right of way. I view this streetcar plan as a precursor to such a level of transportation. A streetcar system is intimate and builds permanent connections, which is part of the reason why it's shown to stimulate so much growth around them. I want to rebuild our core to the level it once was, and given our city's history, we won't reach it without a streetcar.

In a perfect world, we'd be considering this plan along with a true rapid transit system. That's what I'm doing personally with some of my free time, just don't know if I'll get it through to those who make the big decisions in time, but I'll sure try.

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:51 am

Busguy2010 wrote:
GrowUpFrances wrote:So why is a streetcar the only thing being considered? And why all the focus on Kansas City? Why aren’t we thinking bigger, like Minneapolis has? Or Denver?
I have always thought we should think bigger, personally. I've been thinking about light rail in Omaha for a long time. I think most people in our city oppose it because of the high cost, vs our relative non-issue traffic. Whereas most cities have built rail systems as a result of clogged buses and highways, Omaha would be building as a preventative to those issues.

I just want to make it clear that I view rapid transit as the superior mode of transportation, hands down. This includes any rail transit that is grade separated and has exclusive right of way. I view this streetcar plan as a precursor to such a level of transportation. A streetcar system is intimate and builds permanent connections, which is part of the reason why it's shown to stimulate so much growth around them. I want to rebuild our core to the level it once was, and given our city's history, we won't reach it without a streetcar.

In a perfect world, we'd be considering this plan along with a true rapid transit system. That's what I'm doing personally with some of my free time, just don't know if I'll get it through to those who make the big decisions in time, but I'll sure try.

I’m glad you have fleshed this out..

I just don’t believe a streetcar system is a wise way to spend an estimated $170 million..

I’m all for a variety of improved public transit.. And if a streetcar system is not the best, most efficient way to be a daily driver alternative for citizens to use for transport, then to me, I ask several questions- What in the H E double toothpicks are we doing here?.. What is the real purpose of spending $170 million on a streetcar line if it’s primary purpose is not rooted as being the best, most efficient daily driver transportation alternative for citizens? More so then, is a streetcar system more akin as a novelty..mainly an event driven alternative; used more as a lightly efficient, sometimes fun transportation option for citizens to consider during a party night on the town?.. And to the last question, if that is the case, I just can’t justify in my mind right now, spending $170 million on a short routed, multiple stoppage streetcar system plan..

Excellent discussion going on in this thread

...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

Wrightfan · Post by **Wrightfan** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:35 am

GrowUpFrances wrote:

So why is a streetcar the only thing being considered? And why all the focus on Kansas City? Why aren’t we thinking bigger, like Minneapolis has? Or Denver?

Woah, Nelly!

Wouldn’t the metro need to add an extra million or so residents before any ambitious plans of this scale even begin to be conceptualized? Come back and discuss in the year 2075.

Again, Kansas City may be the closest example of a new streetcar rollout, but also pay attention to Milwaukee as their new streetcar line opens this year.

Uffda · Post by **Uffda** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:55 am

Omaha Cowboy wrote:
I’m glad you have fleshed this out..

I just don’t believe a streetcar system is a wise way to spend an estimated $170 million..

I’m all for a variety of improved public transit.. And if a streetcar system is not the best, most efficient way to be a daily driver alternative for citizens to use for transport, then to me, I ask several questions- What in the H E double toothpicks are we doing here?.. What is the real purpose of spending $170 million on a streetcar line if it’s primary purpose is not rooted as being the best, most efficient daily driver transportation alternative for citizens? More so then, is a streetcar system more akin as a novelty..mainly an event driven alternative; used more as a lightly efficient, sometimes fun transportation option for citizens to consider during a party night on the town?.. And to the last question, if that is the case, I just can’t justify in my mind right now, spending $170 million on a short routed, multiple stoppage streetcar system plan..

Excellent discussion going on in this thread ...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

I am with you Cowboy, I don’t see this as being the best use of $170 million. I know there is the studies that show the development along the route but as was said there is already development that has been developing without a streetcar. Like you, I also am seeing it more and more as a novelty.

I think someone said it wasn’t for events then why has it always been run right in front of the Qwest because it couldn’t handle th crowds. Also does it really need to go to Creighton. I think a couple of buses would just as well there.

I have said before it is too bad that the powers that be didn’t have a plan to develop the bus system as Omaha expanded west and south. I looked once to see how long it would take to get from house by Immanuel to my job in S Omaha —- 2 hrs and I would have to walk a mile to the bus stop and be there by 530 and then have another mile walk at the end. Ow I am not looking st door to door service but 2 hrs??

I feel if you are going to build something it should be for the right reasons of developing a good transportation system and not so OMaha can be ‘cool’ like KC

Uffda · Post by **Uffda** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:59 am

When I look at this Metro map it looks like the same route is well covered by buses routes.

Screen Shot 2018-03-11 at 8.57.22 AM.png

buildomaha · Post by **buildomaha** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:32 am

Before any of this happens, Metro needs to invest in an app with scheduling and route maps.

iamjacobm · Post by **iamjacobm** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:50 am

I am pro streetcar for the development purposes and the fact that it will attract people to mass transit not because they need to, but because they want to.

I think the only way it gets done is if it is only funded by the corridor. The city as a whole is not going to approve this, if the few blocks around the line are willing to pitch in more property taxes, or a special tax on construction materials in the district or new developments have a fee added to their permits to pay off bonding fees or a combo of all those then more power to us for doing something above and beyond the rest of the city.

I am really not trying to change anyone's minds either, this conversation has been hashed out dozens of times from every angle. I personally like big bold decisions for cities b/c those decisions have the opportunity to pay off years and decades down the road.

Omaha will be just fine without the streetcar.
Omaha would have been fine without CLC, I am dam glad we built it.
Omaha would have been fine without the pedestrian bridge, I highly doubt CB would see an unprecedented development without it.
Omaha would have been fine without the Dodge expressway, I am glad it facilitates a quicker way out west for me and I am sure commuters headed east feel the same.

Then again Ralston and CB probably regret their arenas so it isn't all perfect either.

At the end of the day I hear streetcar and I get excited for higher density developments, less parking requirements, new businesses, a new built environment. That is a risk I am gladly willing to take. And if we don't take it we will be fine.

Anyways enjoy your day everyone.

omahahawk · Post by **omahahawk** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:29 am

from KETV.com

Modern Streetcar Advocates, a group comprised of commercial developers, backers of public transportation, the University of Nebraska Medical Center and Omaha neighborhood business leaders, launched a new campaign Wednesday to develop a streetcar line from downtown to midtown Omaha.

"The group hopes people will use the website, ModernStreetcarAdvocates.org, to add their names in support of the campaign.

https://modernstreetcaradvocates.org

almighty_tuna · Post by **almighty_tuna** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:28 pm

Jean Stothert wrote:According to Stothert, a streetcar system could benefit Omaha, saying, "if we are going to continue to build up downtown and midtown, we need to improve transit and public transportation."

Jean Stothert wrote:In February, Mayor Jean Stothert said she supported streetcar development.

"It's really necessary with some of our areas that surround downtown, North Omaha, South Omaha, if we're going to bring more jobs to downtown, we have to provide transportation," said Stothert in the February interview.

but also...

Jean Stothert wrote:Omaha Mayor Jean Stothert released a statement on the report, saying she hasn't been briefed on it yet, but does not plan on committing any city dollars to the streetcar. Adding, if city money is involved, that would be up to voters.

Way to take a stand, Jean. The passive politics, while not unexpected, is just immensely disappointing. But, hey, what do I know. I'm sure we should probably just build another couple parking garages downtown while we keep talking about how much we want Omaha to put on its big boy pants. The only thing Omaha is taking the lead on is studies per capita.

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:42 pm

Uffda wrote:When I look at this Metro map it looks like the same route is well covered by buses

Very good point...

And Omaha will be just fine without a short route streetcar system.. I really believe what has been proposed is more of an entertainment novelty transportation option.. That’s the sense I’m getting anyway. And because of that, I’d rather see Omaha spend $170 million on improving its current mediocre Bus transit system..

I guess I’m seeing this more from an angle of providing Omaha citizens the best alternative transportation systems/options possible as an alternative daily driver..

Omaha’s a metro 1 million in population. If providing that type of alternative rapid transit system requires our metro to be in the 2 million population range before true light rail can become a realistic consideration/option, then let’s focus on improving what we have.. and while we’re at it, improve grid friendly support for our citizens who daily commute by bicycle..

This is where my opinion is currently landing as it relates to our current $610,000 streetcar study/proposal...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:49 pm

almighty_tuna wrote:The only thing Omaha is taking the lead on is studies per capita.

As it relates to this topic, it’s hard to disagree with that, lol...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

Dundeemaha · Post by **Dundeemaha** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:15 pm

buildomaha wrote:Before any of this happens, Metro needs to invest in an app with scheduling and route maps.

Good news, they're hoping to have this in place by the end of the year.

OWH wrote: The Metro app involves installing GPS systems on all 108 buses that Metro has on the street at any given time.
...
“If everything goes as planned, it will be here by December,’’ Barritt said. “We recognize it’s extremely important for the public.’’

https://goo.gl/hyhaXi

Busguy2010 · Post by **Busguy2010** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:44 pm

Until we see further reports, my final opinion in the discussion is that the streetcar will be a facilitator of development, density and interest in transit. In my opinion, most if not all the people in that area who currently don't ride the bus for their own reasons, would ride the streetcar, despite those reasons. It isn't an entertainment novelty because I see all the residences and jobs along the line, and the number of those connections will increase, rather mind-blowingly, as time goes on. It may be viewed to serve a small percentage of riders, but that percentage will grow as a result of it simply being there. And lastly, I believe that in order to get the functional transit system we strive for, we need to increase density in a way only a streetcar can facilitate. And I believe a streetcar will be a precursor for other rail and rapid bus options.

We have to start somewhere, and this is a great start. Iamjacobm, I agree.

jessep28 · Post by **jessep28** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:50 pm

Businesses in West Omaha need workers, but talent available in Eastern parts of the city can't fill those jobs due to lack of reliable transportation options. I think that Omaha and Metro need to address those issues before building an expensive streetcar line.

Uffda · Post by **Uffda** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:16 pm

I read Jacobm’s post where he states that people who live along that line with ride a streetcar that won’t for their own reasons ride the bus.

Why? If those people believe in mass transit you wouldn’t think it would matter. Or are they Streetcar snobs?

Busguy2010 · Post by **Busguy2010** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:04 pm

Uffda wrote:I read Jacobm’s post where he states that people who live along that line with ride a streetcar that won’t for their own reasons ride the bus.

Why? If those people believe in mass transit you wouldn’t think it would matter. Or are they Streetcar snobs?

Basically. I'm not gonna lie there does exist a complex where people think they're too good to ride a bus.

Uffda · Post by **Uffda** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:11 pm

Busguy2010 wrote:
Uffda wrote:I read Jacobm’s post where he states that people who live along that line with ride a streetcar that won’t for their own reasons ride the bus.

Why? If those people believe in mass transit you wouldn’t think it would matter. Or are they Streetcar snobs?
Basically. I'm not gonna lie there does exist a complex where people think they're too good to ride a bus.

And they think the same crowd they avoid on the bus won’t be on the streetcar.

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:13 pm

Uffda wrote:
Busguy2010 wrote:
Uffda wrote:I read Jacobm’s post where he states that people who live along that line with ride a streetcar that won’t for their own reasons ride the bus.

Why? If those people believe in mass transit you wouldn’t think it would matter. Or are they Streetcar snobs?
Basically. I'm not gonna lie there does exist a complex where people think they're too good to ride a bus.
And they think the same crowd they avoid on the bus won’t be on the streetcar.

Remember, it’s the “cool people” who will ride the “streetcar”.. Screw the bus!. Because Omaha MUST be “cool” like Kansas City, LOL..

Whatever...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

Busguy2010 · Post by **Busguy2010** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:47 pm

There are A LOT of people who do certain things to identify their status. Man, I ride the bus without a thought, but for a lot of people that is huge status hit, for whatever reason.

Busguy2010 · Post by **Busguy2010** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:31 am

On a serious note to that thought, I really do think the difference between the system we have and the system we want is getting more "normal people" to ride it.

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:54 am

Busguy2010 wrote:On a serious note to that thought, I really do think the difference between the system we have and the system we want is getting more "normal people" to ride it.

And we must define actually, the system we “want” before a decision is made to move forward...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

Busguy2010 · Post by **Busguy2010** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:34 am

Omaha Cowboy wrote:
Busguy2010 wrote:On a serious note to that thought, I really do think the difference between the system we have and the system we want is getting more "normal people" to ride it.
And we must define actually, the system we “want” before a decision is made to move forward...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

I think we all want the same system... One that serves "all". The problem is people that could currently use it once a day, once a week, once a month, once a year, don't use it at all. The truth is the bus can serve a lot of potential customers quite well, they just don't know it, or don't consider it.

last month my truck broke down and I had an appointment and some errands to run, so I used the bus. This would seem highly unreasonable to a lot of people, but I did it.

I walked .5 miles to the bus stop at 72nd and Seward. I rode the 18 straight south to 72nd & Cedar. Then I had to walk an additional .9 miles to my destination at 63rd & Center. After my appointment, I rode the 15 from 63rd and center to 144th and Center. I had to walk another 1/3 mile to my destination, and then I walked from there to the grocery store across the street. Then I walked back to Oakview, rode the bus from there to 72nd & Dodge, ran some more errands, then walked a little over a mile home. I left at 2:00 and was back home before 8. This was all in 10 degree weather with a fresh coat of snow, and an uncomfortable bit of wind.

To me, it's a personal matter. Everyone wants this all encompassing system to come to them, when nearly nobody makes an effort to use the one we have. Truth is a very sizable amount of people can use it (people who live within a 10 minute walk of a route, not calling anyone here out), they just don't want to.