Omaha Streetcar Discussion

[Busguy2010]

A couple more cases close to me:

My dad could drive to work downtown in 25 minutes and instead he walks 1/2 mile to the stop and almost another 1/2 mile to work, and does the opposite in the afternoon. The ride is 40 minutes each way.

Me and my friends rode the bus to MCC South every day and we'd have to walk and it took us an hour to get there and an hour back. When we drove, it took us 25 minutes, but 80% of the time we took the bus.

I have a lot of experience using our bus system when I didn't have to. It's just been an integral part of my life and I have a hard time understanding what the real issue is.

[Omaha Cowboy]

On a serious note to that thought, I really do think the difference between the system we have and the system we want is getting more "normal people" to ride it.

And we must define actually, the system we “want” before a decision is made to move forward...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

I think we all want the same system... One that serves "all". The problem is people that could currently use it once a day, once a week, once a month, once a year, don't use it at all. The truth is the bus can serve a lot of potential customers quite well, they just don't know it, or don't consider it.

last month my truck broke down and I had an appointment and some errands to run, so I used the bus. This would seem highly unreasonable to a lot of people, but I did it.

To me, it's a personal matter. Everyone wants this all encompassing system to come to them, when nearly nobody makes an effort to use the one we have. Truth is a very sizable amount of people can use it (people who live within a 10 minute walk of a route, not calling anyone here out), they just don't want to.

I completely agree with this aspect. Here in Omaha, we’ve become so reliant on our vehicles only.. I’d say many would consider an Uber if they could afford it, long before a city bus, if their car was unavailable.. Which is sad but mostly true..

There are other personal reasons/considerations for why someone wouldn’t (or couldn’t) consider the bus as transport..

But the Metro could become a much better option..if the service, routes, stops etc were improved...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[Busguy2010]

I’d say many would consider an Uber if they could afford it, long before a city bus, if their car was unavailable.. Which is sad but mostly true..

Ciao..LiO...Peace

I believe this likely a true statement. I wish I could somehow challenge people in Omaha to use the bus, even just occasionally. Say to get to a Creighton game, the CWS, or anything happening downtown. It really is convenient. If you live close enough, you can walk, or you can even drive halfway and park at many safe lots along nearly every route that goes downtown.

Metro is getting some money to make bus stop improvements, which will be improving the existing system. Just depends if you consider improving the system as adding more routes, or improving the existing system.

[Omaha Cowboy]

Metro is getting some money to make bus stop improvements, which will be improving the existing system. Just depends if you consider improving the system as adding more routes, or improving the existing system.

I’d like to see them improve both the existing system and add more routes..

But I’m greedy like that ...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[iamjacobm]

I’d say many would consider an Uber if they could afford it, long before a city bus, if their car was unavailable.. Which is sad but mostly true..

Ciao..LiO...Peace

I believe this likely a true statement. I wish I could somehow challenge people in Omaha to use the bus, even just occasionally. Say to get to a Creighton game, the CWS, or anything happening downtown. It really is convenient. If you live close enough, you can walk, or you can even drive halfway and park at many safe lots along nearly every route that goes downtown.

Metro is getting some money to make bus stop improvements, which will be improving the existing system. Just depends if you consider improving the system as adding more routes, or improving the existing system.

I use the bus for the CWS a lot. A heck of a lot easier than dealing with parking down there, especially when other people already have a tailgate spot. I use the 2 off and on for work too, its a luxury for me though and not a necessity. I drove all winter, but am looking forward to getting back to it a once a week(was my goal last fall maybe should bump it to 2 times) now that we are warming up. Granted I live about a block north of Dodge and work DT so it is very easy for me to get on the 2 and adds less than 5 mins to my commute.

[Louie]

My fiancee and I have been using the bus semi-regularly on the weekends to save money for a couple years now. It's incredibly cheap, surely cheaper than taking a car if the route works in your favor.

[Gopher]

My fiancee and I have been using the bus semi-regularly on the weekends to save money for a couple years now. It's incredibly cheap, surely cheaper than taking a car if the route works in your favor.

Omaha Metro is super cheap compared to other bus systems in the US, too. $1.25 for a single trip in Omaha vs $2.00/trip in Minneapolis or $2.60/trip in Denver.

[Louie]

My fiancee and I have been using the bus semi-regularly on the weekends to save money for a couple years now. It's incredibly cheap, surely cheaper than taking a car if the route works in your favor.

Omaha Metro is super cheap compared to other bus systems in the US, too. $1.25 for a single trip in Omaha vs $2.00/trip in Minneapolis or $2.60/trip in Denver.

I know! Such a deal compared to Uber. I mean obviously Uber is more adaptable as far as time and location but for 1/10th the cost the bus is a steal.

[Garrett]

My fiancee and I have been using the bus semi-regularly on the weekends to save money for a couple years now. It's incredibly cheap, surely cheaper than taking a car if the route works in your favor.

Omaha Metro is super cheap compared to other bus systems in the US, too. $1.25 for a single trip in Omaha vs $2.00/trip in Minneapolis or $2.60/trip in Denver.

I know! Such a deal compared to Uber. I mean obviously Uber is more adaptable as far as time and location but for 1/10th the cost the bus is a steal.

It's interesting living in Chicago where there are so many more options even just within Uber itself, such as UberPool. There have been times where, combined with promos, I have taken ~2 mile long rides for under $1.

[Omaha Cowboy]

My fiancee and I have been using the bus semi-regularly on the weekends to save money for a couple years now. It's incredibly cheap, surely cheaper than taking a car if the route works in your favor.

Omaha Metro is super cheap compared to other bus systems in the US, too. $1.25 for a single trip in Omaha vs $2.00/trip in Minneapolis or $2.60/trip in Denver.

I know! Such a deal compared to Uber. I mean obviously Uber is more adaptable as far as time and location but for 1/10th the cost the bus is a steal.

It's interesting living in Chicago where there are so many more options even just within Uber itself, such as UberPool. There have been times where, combined with promos, I have taken ~2 mile long rides for under $1.

This is interesting..

I’m wondering if the development of services like Uber or Lyft, are actually taking customers away from city bus riders in a Primary market like Chicago and even a mid major market like Omaha ...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[iamjacobm]

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/ ... tion/6164/

City Lab is very pro transit so take that with you before reading the article, still some relevant discussion points.

Uber and Lyft help me use the bus more often. I have taken the bus to DT, Benson and Aksarben before and relied on a rideshare to get home later in the night when the buses aren't running or aren't frequent enough for me to bother. Saves me from paying the $10 or so bucks on the way out cutting my round trip for a night out about in half.

[Busguy2010]

I'm glad to see some of us do utilize the bus system.

It would be very interesting, but probably impossible, to compile information on how many people who live and work within 1/2 mile of a stop and don't have to transfer, actually use or don't use their relative bus route. I can admit, transferring can be a bit of a hassle depending on where you're going.

[GrandpaaSmucker]

25 degrees this morning. Lord have mercy on anyone that has to be standing outside waiting in the dark for a bus On the bright side it will be in the 60s for the ride home.

[Garrett]

25 degrees this morning. Lord have mercy on anyone that has to be standing outside waiting in the dark for a bus On the bright side it will be in the 60s for the ride home.

As a person who rides transit everyday, layers work wonders. 25 is actually not that bad in the winter haha

[Louie]

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/ ... tion/6164/

City Lab is very pro transit so take that with you before reading the article, still some relevant discussion points.

Uber and Lyft help me use the bus more often. I have taken the bus to DT, Benson and Aksarben before and relied on a rideshare to get home later in the night when the buses aren't running or aren't frequent enough for me to bother. Saves me from paying the $10 or so bucks on the way out cutting my round trip for a night out about in half.

That's my tactic as well. The more options that people have to get around while imbibing the better the chances are for bars and restaurants to succeed.

[Busguy2010]

25 degrees this morning. Lord have mercy on anyone that has to be standing outside waiting in the dark for a bus On the bright side it will be in the 60s for the ride home.

As a person who rides transit everyday, layers work wonders. 25 is actually not that bad in the winter haha

Have to agree. 25 is borderline comfotable if it isn't windy. Any day you don't have to wear thermal leggings and a ski mask is a good day.

[guy4omaha]

I rode the bus for 10 years up until 2 years ago when PacLife moved to AV. Because of a minimum of two transfers now, the new location just doesn't work in the summer and winter extremes. I had to give up the "special" layered winter coats I wore. Seeking warm function over fashion, I found a really warm coat for the outer layer that was surprisingly ultra light in weight. But it was an oh so hideous brown turd color. I think it might have hurt my career showing up that way to work each winter morning in that "thing".

Sometimes worse than the weather conditions waiting for the bus was how drafty some of the older buses were. It would take about 2-1/2 hours to get your lower legs and feet thawed out in the winter. And in the summer, the heat on the buses when the A/C would bust or worse yet the buses would conk out completely. And this was when the buses showed up on schedule.

I don't really like paying for all the gas and all the wear and tear these terrible Omaha streets cause my car. At the same time, I don't miss the fashion statement, the cold/hot waiting, the cold/hot rides, the buses that sometimes never came and the adding of 1-1/2 hours to my commute time each day. From someone who has been there on this issue, Omaha and Metro have a long, long way to go before a significant minority of people will consider mass transit here a viable option.

I do miss all my "bus buddies" though as you do build a regular community each morning on the Express routes.

There you have it: My experience and opinion for what it's not worth.

[Omaha Cowboy]

I rode the bus for 10 years up until 2 years ago when PacLife moved to AV. Because of a minimum of two transfers now, the new location just doesn't work in the summer and winter extremes. I had to give up the "special" layered winter coats I wore. Seeking warm function over fashion, I found a really warm coat for the outer layer that was surprisingly ultra light in weight. But it was an oh so hideous brown turd color. I think it might have hurt my career showing up that way to work each winter morning in that "thing".

Sometimes worse than the weather conditions waiting for the bus was how drafty some of the older buses were. It would take about 2-1/2 hours to get your lower legs and feet thawed out in the winter. And in the summer, the heat on the buses when the A/C would bust or worse yet the buses would conk out completely. And this was when the buses showed up on schedule.

I don't really like paying for all the gas and all the wear and tear these terrible Omaha streets cause my car. At the same time, I don't miss the fashion statement, the cold/hot waiting, the cold/hot rides, the buses that sometimes never came and the adding of 1-1/2 hours to my commute time each day. From someone who has been there on this issue, Omaha and Metro have a long, long way to go before a significant minority of people will consider mass transit here a viable option.

I do miss all my "bus buddies" though as you do build a regular community each morning on the Express routes.

There you have it: My experience and opinion for what it's not worth.

Thanks for sharing your bus experiences Guy.. And thanks for everyone else’s as well..

Obviously there are pluses and minuses.. But I still think, before we focus on a limited area streetcar plan, Omaha/Metro should place emphasis now on improving the metropolitan bus system we have. It’s quality, reliability and route options can and should be better..

And let me say this- I’m not anti streetcar. Never have been.. I do believe a limited route system will happen for the Omaha core at some point within the next 5-7 years...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[GetUrban]

Omaha Streetcar Advocate website for those who are interested or for skeptics who need convincing...

https://modernstreetcaradvocates.org/

[GrandpaaSmucker]

Omaha Streetcar Advocate website for those who are interested or for skeptics who need convincing...

https://modernstreetcaradvocates.org/

I am fearful that someone with a chance to gain piles of cash is working the buttons or pulling the strings behind the curtains on that web site.

[Dundeemaha]

Omaha Streetcar Advocate website for those who are interested or for skeptics who need convincing...

https://modernstreetcaradvocates.org/

I am fearful that someone with a chance to gain piles of cash is working the buttons or pulling the strings behind the curtains on that web site.

The people with money who want this made to make more money aren't hiding behind the curtain. They're openly supporting it. No need for crazy conspiracy theories.

Plenty of money on this page https://modernstreetcaradvocates.org/advocates/

If only our roads and CIP spending were as transparent as this has been.

[bigredmed1]

Omaha Streetcar Advocate website for those who are interested or for skeptics who need convincing...

https://modernstreetcaradvocates.org/

I am fearful that someone with a chance to gain piles of cash is working the buttons or pulling the strings behind the curtains on that web site.

The people with money who want this made to make more money aren't hiding behind the curtain. They're openly supporting it. No need for crazy conspiracy theories.

Plenty of money on this page https://modernstreetcaradvocates.org/advocates/

If only our roads and CIP spending were as transparent as this has been.

Still don't understand why we don't just do what Orlando did. It would serve the purpose you want for vastly less money (log factors less money) and support the arts community here as well as be a thing that would be a creative design that may lead to other regional services that tie together the mass transit elements of the bus system.

[daveoma]

What did Orlando do?

[OmahaFan]

I'd vote for a street car. I think it would help Omaha economically. Also would help UNMC expand further. I could imagine a Street car someday for Omaha.

[bigredmed1]

What did Orlando do?

They had a very similar transportation need as we do. The O-rena and it's convention hotels were isolated from the rest of the city. They had a shopping/restaurant district that was a few miles away that had a bus hub for the real bus service. They took some of their older but still working busses and put them on a dedicated loop between the arena/hotel area and the restaurant/shopping area making sure that one of the stops was immediately next to the bus hub.

These busses were then decorated by local artists according to a theme (we rode an "old timey" bus). They circulated around the loop at no cost to the riders. The businesses mid loop had signs along the way and these loop buses would drop you there and stop and pick up riders at the signs. If you needed to go elsewhere in Orlando, you could just walk a few yards from the art bus to the real bus stop at the shopping area, and hop a real bus.

These are convenient, cool, and easy. They required some artists, and an art budget, but they were a heck of a lot cheaper than a street car, multiple buses ran all the time, and others could be added if needed. These art bus loops could be set up around tourist tasks like getting downtown from the airport, going to the zoo from downtown, and going to midtown. By linking them to MAT routes, the users could get elsewhere in the city easier.

[Uffda]

Is this what you are referring to? I feel they should run busses like this on the proposed streetcar route to show the ridership need.

Orlando LYMMO. https://www.golynx.com/plan-trip/riding-lynx/lymmo/


LYMMO is a fare-free Downtown Orlando circulator that provides a convenient, air-conditioned connection for residents, employees and visitors to Downtown restaurants, retail, entertainment, offices and services. LYMMO operates along four different routes, with wait times between buses as little as five minutes

Orlando Public Transit page — yes Orlando is a bigger area BUT the planning was there for various pieces to fit together just like I have pointed out in the past the Denver RTD also did

[bigredmed1]

These were older busses that went just from the Orlando Convention Center and hotels to the shopping area nearby. They linked to the real busses at the shopping area. This sounds like they did it a second time for their down town area.

The point of these loops is that they can be zonal and by linking the zones at just one point to the main connector system you can get a functional city wide system that is practical and manageable based on projected need.

The busses for midtown could have a theme and that theme can be different than the busses that connect Dundee to Benson. Which can have busses added on Friday and Saturday night or can link to Aksarben on game nights for example.

[Rusker]

What about the rapid bus transit line serving as a forerunner? Much of KC’s starter line runs along the old Main Street Max route, which is I believe now re-routed in downtown to accommodate the streetcar better.

Also, Amtrak has previously done this for commuter rail too where dedicated bus lines serve as forerunners for new routes. Though that is obviously on a very different scale.

[Omaha Cowboy]

These were older busses that went just from the Orlando Convention Center and hotels to the shopping area nearby. They linked to the real busses at the shopping area. This sounds like they did it a second time for their down town area.

The point of these loops is that they can be zonal and by linking the zones at just one point to the main connector system you can get a functional city wide system that is practical and manageable based on projected need.

The busses for midtown could have a theme and that theme can be different than the busses that connect Dundee to Benson. Which can have busses added on Friday and Saturday night or can link to Aksarben on game nights for example.

I think this is a model Omaha should definitely look into...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[bigredmed1]

What about the rapid bus transit line serving as a forerunner? Much of KC’s starter line runs along the old Main Street Max route, which is I believe now re-routed in downtown to accommodate the streetcar better.

Also, Amtrak has previously done this for commuter rail too where dedicated bus lines serve as forerunners for new routes. Though that is obviously on a very different scale.

AMTRAK should look at this for the Omaha to Lincoln commuter traffic on I-80. If we are going to build rail, it would be a lot more reasonable to build rail to haul people to and from Lincoln and Omaha each day and take pressure off I-80.

[Busguy2010]

I want to point out that Omaha tried that back in the early 2000's. They had 5 or 6 circulator routes that ran in loops throughout downtown and even went the cool route by using vintage 1950's or 60's buses. The routes were designed to get people between where they park and work, and to lunch and back. Cool idea, I remember riding them from time to time. But they quickly went out of service because nobody rode them, then one of the buses caught fire while in service and the whole thing was history. It was in and out so quickly it was like it never happened. Couldn't have been around more than a year or two.

[bigredmed1]

I want to point out that Omaha tried that back in the early 2000's. They had 5 or 6 circulator routes that ran in loops throughout downtown and even went the cool route by using vintage 1950's or 60's buses. The routes were designed to get people between where they park and work, and to lunch and back. Cool idea, I remember riding them from time to time. But they quickly went out of service because nobody rode them, then one of the buses caught fire while in service and the whole thing was history. It was in and out so quickly it was like it never happened. Couldn't have been around more than a year or two.

Implementation errors can ruin a good idea.

[Busguy2010]

Implementation errors can ruin a good idea.

So given the improvements they've made in the way they manage the system recently vs back then, you're saying maybe they should try again? I have my doubts about that, but maybe you should make this suggestion to them.

[Uffda]

I want to point out that Omaha tried that back in the early 2000's. They had 5 or 6 circulator routes that ran in loops throughout downtown and even went the cool route by using vintage 1950's or 60's buses. The routes were designed to get people between where they park and work, and to lunch and back. Cool idea, I remember riding them from time to time. But they quickly went out of service because nobody rode them, then one of the buses caught fire while in service and the whole thing was history. It was in and out so quickly it was like it never happened. Couldn't have been around more than a year or two.

I would say 5-6 in downtown would be too many. I feel they should run some on the exact route they want the street car to run with stops just where the streetcars might stop.

Of course we still have as some posted earlier “I am too good for a bus” crowd.

[Busguy2010]

I would say 5-6 in downtown would be too many. I feel they should run some on the exact route they want the street car to run with stops just where the streetcars might stop.

Of course we still have as some posted earlier “I am too good for a bus” crowd.

Now that I have a little more time to think about it, there was the Green (which is still around) Yellow, Blue, Orange and maybe Red. The only one that went west of 19th was the Blue which was the Douglas/Farnam, 8th to 24th route. The green is alive and well today as a circulator between the parking lots in North Downtown to Dodge street. The Yellow, which was the lunchtime circulator, held on longer than the others, but I think was out of service around 2008 plus or minus a year. I didn't have a chance or reason to ride the others. I want to say they went in service around 2002 and most of them didn't last too long.

Yes, the "I'm to good to ride a bus" crowd is more than large enough to make a huge impact on the success of any route we're talking about.

Other thing is, there's no clear indication this streetcar route we're talking about would be run by Metro. This whole thing isn't being run by Metro. Metro is a partner. It's a collaboration of different planning organizations and it's being assumed Metro might be able to operate whatever recommendation is made. Metro wouldn't spend its own allocations to explore the exact feasibility of this perceived streetcar.

The 15 operates every 15 minutes between UNMC and 11th and Farnam. There are stops every couple blocks, but it's obvious if you ride, that the stops the streetcar study is suggesting are the busiest stops along route 15. There's been a study of the route happening since before I was born, and it's called the 15. I can't tell you how many times I've ridden the 2 and the 15 for events at the CLink or TD, or Downtown in general. These two routes are the busiest in Omaha. They're not critically busy, but busy enough for us to consider other options.

[Dundeemaha]

Maybe they changed with the route update from a couple of years ago but the Yellow and Blue connect downtown with Council Bluffs and are active.

The Green is still around though I think it would benefit from having actually green buses and I think charging 25c is a terrible idea. The difference between 1.25 and .25 while more in absolute terms is far larger than .25 and free in psychological terms. Make them free, paint them green, and advertise them along with some cheap parking options.

[Busguy2010]

Maybe they changed with the route update from a couple of years ago but the Yellow and Blue connect downtown with Council Bluffs and are active.

The Green is still around though I think it would benefit from having actually green buses and I think charging 25c is a terrible idea. The difference between 1.25 and .25 while more in absolute terms is far larger than .25 and free in psychological terms. Make them free, paint them green, and advertise them along with some cheap parking options.

Yes, after they did away with the circulator routes, they then named the CB routes blue and yellow. They are unrelated.

It makes me wonder who is riding the green. Maybe not by design, but a .25 fare may encourage people to actually ride a regular route. If they're living out around west dodge, west center, Q, they might as well ride an express route than drive and take the circulator. The circulator would get pretty pricey, like $10 per month for a 2 minute ride.

Far as I can tell, the green is majority just for first national, and I bet they are paying for it in some way. It would make no sense for metro to provide a free route out of the good in their heart.

[GrandpaaSmucker]

I'd vote for a street car. I think it would help Omaha economically. Also would help UNMC expand further. I could imagine a Street car someday for Omaha.

You will never get a chance to vote on the streetcar. If there is one thing this thread in this forum proves it is that if the public are allowed to vote they will vote it down 3 to 1. They will never allow the public a fair vote on this just like they did not on the baseball stadium. They have no doubt already figured out the way they are going to ram this down the unwilling publics throat. Were getting that streetcar rather we want it or not.

[Rusker]

I'd vote for a street car. I think it would help Omaha economically. Also would help UNMC expand further. I could imagine a Street car someday for Omaha.

You will never get a chance to vote on the streetcar. If there is one thing this thread in this forum proves it is that if the public are allowed to vote they will vote it down 3 to 1. They will never allow the public a fair vote on this just like they did not on the baseball stadium. They have no doubt already figured out the way they are going to ram this down the unwilling publics throat. Were getting that streetcar rather we want it or not.

“Fair vote” is a relative term. If a geographically focused part of Omaha chooses to tax themselves to bring the streetcar to their area is that a fair vote? I’d suggest it’s fairer than having folks in my neighborhood west of 84th make the decision for folks downtown.

Being a recent transplant from KC I saw firsthand how a citywide vote can be used as a means to stymie local initiatives in the city. Not that there isn’t a place for such a vote; I’m just saying there are multiple ways to approach a “fair vote”.

[Busguy2010]

“Fair vote” is a relative term. If a geographically focused part of Omaha chooses to tax themselves to bring the streetcar to their area is that a fair vote? I’d suggest it’s fairer than having folks in my neighborhood west of 84th make the decision for folks downtown.

Being a recent transplant from KC I saw firsthand how a citywide vote can be used as a means to stymie local initiatives in the city. Not that there isn’t a place for such a vote; I’m just saying there are multiple ways to approach a “fair vote”.

Well said. However, it's obvious people who may strongly oppose the streetcar will be paying their part. I've supported this streetcar route from the beginning because I know it will bring us back to the density this city once relied on. Perhaps it will be even denser than it was and I think this will be great. Streetcars were the lifeline of Omaha and I honestly think it will benefit us to go back to that model of public transportation. The hard part is convincing the opponents how a streetcar is beyond even the very best coordinated bus alternatives.

It sounds like a fair compromise for the vote to be limited to the areas adjacent to the route if they agree pay a much higher percentage of the cost than the rest of the city.