Oak View Mall (144 & West Center Rd)

[iamjacobm]

Younkers news official.

[omaha79]

I predicted a couple of years ago that the next major step would be for them to lose an anchor tenant. They've been bleeding regular tenants in the mall and in the outlying strips for years, but the true sign of the inescapable death cycle is to lose an anchor tenant. For a struggling mall, there is basically no going back from it. We've seen it at The Center, Crossroads, and Southroads before.

The Oakview Mall is in a good neighborhood and is faltering due to dealing with a bad economy and the national failure of retail chains. The Center and the Southroads and even the Crossroads failed because they were in bad ends of town. There is little comparison between those 3 and the Oakviews situation now.

malls die how malls die. wash, rinse, repeat. The pattern you are seeing now is the exact same playbook that played out at those other facilities to a tee.

I won't deny that the neighborhood around Oak View is generally better, but this has little to do with the surrounding neighborhood. It's all about retail trends, where people want to shop, how people want to shop, and what is seen as the cool place to visit. Once a mall loses the "it" factor, it's done for. No going back. This is already inescapable. Oak View Mall is basically a satellite being sucked back into earths gravity. Nothing can be done, it's just a long slow decline to the end.

The city will eventually have to make some decisions about what will soon become a hulking eyesore in the middle of a barren wasteland of failed retail or the nice neighborhood you talk about will be sucked down with it and said neighborhood may no longer remain so nice. A massive abandoned retail area in the heart of the city isn't going to be good for property values in that area. You best hope that the city is more proactive on this than they were with Crossroads or Bellevue was with Southroads.

[omaha79]

For what it's worth, I still stand by my prediction for Oak View from the thread from april 2017 in the Rumors board about Dillards possibly closing. So far, that hasn't panned out, but I could see it happening now if Younkers does indeed leave...

the next step was to lose an anchor store. Once that happens, it's all down hill from there. Thing is, they may be set to lose two anchor stores relatively soon. I wasn't thinking Dillards would be one of them, but if they go, Sears is likely soon to follow. After that, you'll see an acceleration of name brand stores in the mall closing only to be replaced by mom and pop startups (just like Crossroads of 20 years ago). Then, the theater will close. Soon after, the mom and pop stores will close as well until we are left with a big hulking dinosaur of a building.

This exact scenario has played out in the past at The Center, Southroads, and Crossroads. It's Oak Views turn. This will only be accelerated by new shopping dining options going in at the Boys Town Farm and 192nd and Dodge along with the general bleak retail environment.

[Stargazer]

Oakview has been floundering for years, economy has had little to do with it. It's in a horrible location for access, with West Center cut off at Industrial, and quite frankly, the neighborhood immediately around it (which includes light industrial) is not of the greatest economic demographic compared to the rest of west Omaha. I'm going to guess grandpa lives in the area, given his uncharacteristically positive characterization.

[jessep28]

With regards to the soon to be unoccupied anchor space: are multilevel Halloween Expresses a thing?

[RockHarbor]

I just wish they could bulldoze that 144th & Center lot and start all over. OakView is still a nice mall, but l just dont know what will return the "It" factor to it. However, some aspects of the decline aren't the malls doing. It feels like partly a thing of the times. People just don't like the "indoor mall thing" quite like they used to. It's like Drive-In movie theaters. Maybe the West Farms development will bring more traffic to the area, and help it out. (I also feel OakView has that squeezed-in "afterthought" feel. When developers go out beyond the edge of town where there's a "clean slate" to design and develop a regional mall, it feels spacious and designed freely without restrictions -- like Westroads, or Shadow Lake, like Jordan Creek in Des Moines, like FlatIrons Mall or Park Meadows Mall in Denver. OakView was all squeezed-in on a big, open, inner-suburban square lot that was a bit too small to begin with. I don't like that crammed, originally unplanned & originally unplotted feeling. Maybe that affects things, too. Yet, nothing can be done about that now. I'm more making the point to point out that I hope they don't do that again.)

[Omaha Cowboy]

A couple of things-

First, there is nothing definite yet regarding Younkers closing in Omaha. Make no mistake, this doesn’t look good, but the closings are not a sure thing..

Second, I’ve read much about the gloom and doom of Oakview and this potential happenstance is yet another nail in the coffin..Younkers closing in Oakview, potentially, would be a big time shot to the bow.. But this potential announcement really has nothing to do with the health (or lack thereof) of the Oakview Mousetrap, but a direct reflection of the health of Bon-Ton, which filed for bankruptcy in February.. A potential Oakview store closing is collateral damage relating to the health of Bon-Ton, not the state of affairs, as sinking as they’re perceived to be, at Oakview..

And third, I’ve read here, commentary that Dillard’s should cut bait and move the Oakview Mall store to Westroads. Huh? Think about that for a minute. General Growth manages both properties (Oakview and Westroads). What sense would it make to, in essence, cripple the Oakview enclosed Mall by the potential of closing 2 anchor tenants and leave JC Penny and Sears to flounder in the wind??. It makes no business sense if you’re a company that manages both properties to allow one, on purpose basically, to die..As a managing company, you’re supposed to support and work towards helping the location thrive again.. as opposed to letting it purposely die. That’s the easy way out..

More to say later. But it’ll be interesting to see how this Bon-Ton situation shakes out.. And I feel for the 356 local employees these closings could effect.. Its among the worst feeling a person can have being in this kind of precarious situation. I hope they all catch a break...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[Stargazer]

I'll put it this way... I'd much rather see Dillards make a move to Westroads, than close up shop in Omaha, entirely. It's a good store, a much better store than Younkers is/was in either location. Everyone's whined about wanting a Macys in Omaha, when we should be extolling our fortune in having a Dillards in today's retail economy.

Of course I'd like to see Oakview evolve and survive, but it's not going to happen without a major change in thinking, something more in line with what La Vista is doing. They need a residential component/public spaces to retain/draw people to an area, no one has a reason to be at otherwise.

[GrandpaaSmucker]

I'll put it this way... I'd much rather see Dillards make a move to Westroads, than close up shop in Omaha, entirely. It's a good store, a much better store than Younkers is/was in either location.

The people have spoken and the evidence could not be clearer. No we do not like Dillards. We do not care if Dillards is at Westroads or Crossroads or Oakview or on the moon. We do not feel like 75 dollars for a sweater is an affordable price. Dillards aint working for the masses no matter where it is at. The same goes for Penneys and Younkers. Money is tight and people can go on the net and beat their prices and selection.

[Omaha Cowboy]

Perhaps I’ve missed something.. Or someone has insider information..

Has Dillard’s communicated that their enclosed mall store in Omaha is under-performing and is threatening to close?..

I find it curious, for example, a city like Wichita, Kansas- with a Metro population of 300,000 less, can somehow support 2 Dillard’s enclosed mall locations.. But Omaha can’t support one?..

So I’ll go with a series of “ifs”- If Bon-Ton cannot secure a buyer and the two Omaha Yonkers locations close on June 5th, and if the Dillard’s Oakview location is actually underperforming and then if Dillard’s threatens to close unless it can secure a different store location.. Then I agree, I’d rather see Dillard’s move to Westroads..than lose them altogether..

In the end, as I’ve previously stated, it’s General Growth’s job to support and improve their properties locations/flow of businesses. The Oakview Mousetrap is far, far from perfect.. But it has performed successfully in it’s past..and needs to reinvent itself again..Not unlike Crossroads in the late 80’s or more recently, what Westroads has done over the past 15 or so years..

I’m just waiting for the inevitable comment that “we” should just “blow up” Oakview.. That idea was once, famously, floated around on this forum years ago about another certain enclosed mall property (hint- it’s still standing) lol...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[omaha79]

Perhaps I’ve missed something.. Or someone has insider information..

Has Dillard’s communicated that their enclosed mall store in Omaha is under-performing and is threatening to close?..

I find it curious, for example, a city like Wichita, Kansas- with a Metro population of 300,000 less, can somehow support 2 Dillard’s enclosed mall locations.. But Omaha can’t support one?..

So I’ll go with a series of “ifs”- If Bon-Ton cannot secure a buyer and the two Omaha Yonkers locations close on June 5th, and if the Dillard’s Oakview location is actually underperforming and then if Dillard’s threatens to close unless it can secure a different store location.. Then I agree, I’d rather see Dillard’s move to Westroads..than lose them altogether..

In the end, as I’ve previously stated, it’s General Growth’s job to support and improve their properties locations/flow of businesses. The Oakview Mousetrap is far, far from perfect.. But it has performed successfully in it’s past..and needs to reinvent itself again..Not unlike Crossroads in the late 80’s or more recently, what Westroads has done over the past 15 or so years..

I’m just waiting for the inevitable comment that “we” should just “blow up” Oakview.. That idea was once, famously, floated around on this forum years ago about another certain enclosed mall property (hint- it’s still standing) lol...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

There was a rumor thread about a year ago that Dillards was possibly closing. Nothing came of it, but I'll file that under the "where there's smoke, there's fire" category.

You're saying that Oak View has performed well in its past and that it needs to reinvent itself like Crossroads did in the 80's. I would argue that Crossroads isn't a great example to use when touting the success of a renovation project, yet the one that is likely the closest match to the current situation at Oak View. In the grand scheme of things, the renovation of Crossroads amounted to a roughly 10-15 year uptick. It was not enough to stem the tide of a mall that was already starting to lose favor with the masses. The renovation of Crossroads was completed in 1988. By the late 90's to early 2000's, the mall was already in full on decline mode. So, I'm not even sure that one could argue that renovation was worth the cost. The new additions to the mall saw roughly 10 years of peak occupancy before that entire wing of the mall was closed for good.

In this retail environment, it's even less likely that a huge complex like Oak View would be poised for a return to prominence no matter what kind of money you sink into it in terms of renovations and favorable lease terms to try to lure tenants. The popular thinking these days is that most municipalities will only need one enclosed mall going forward. The market here has spoken and that's Westroads. It's closer to a bulk of the population and is further away from major competition such as Village Point, Gretna, Shadow Lake, etc. Also, it has the advantage of convenient interstate access which experts have indicated is a major factor to the survival of these developments in the 21st century. Conversely, Oak View is closer to its competition, further away from the more residents, has no interstate access, and is already in a death spiral.

I get that management has an obligation to try to make both centers work, but at some point, that may not be feasible. They also can't force Dillards to stay at a failing property. If it comes down to filling Westroads possibly empty Younkers bay with an existing tenant at their other location or see both locations have an empty anchor property, they'd probably welcome Dillards to Westroads with open arms.

I don't know if "blowing up" Oak View is the answer. I don't think anyone has the answers, but this mall is following the death cycles of Crossroads, Southroads, and The Center to a tee. It's more likely than not that it will require a major redevelopment or it's going to end up looking like those properties or any of hundreds of other "dead malls" in other cities. Maybe someone can come up with an example, but typically, once a mall starts to fail, it's just throwing good money at bad all the way to the end. There is typically no saving these developments once they've lost favor with the public.

[Omaha Cowboy]

Perhaps I’ve missed something.. Or someone has insider information..

Has Dillard’s communicated that their enclosed mall store in Omaha is under-performing and is threatening to close?..

I find it curious, for example, a city like Wichita, Kansas- with a Metro population of 300,000 less, can somehow support 2 Dillard’s enclosed mall locations.. But Omaha can’t support one?..

So I’ll go with a series of “ifs”- If Bon-Ton cannot secure a buyer and the two Omaha Yonkers locations close on June 5th, and if the Dillard’s Oakview location is actually underperforming and then if Dillard’s threatens to close unless it can secure a different store location.. Then I agree, I’d rather see Dillard’s move to Westroads..than lose them altogether..

In the end, as I’ve previously stated, it’s General Growth’s job to support and improve their properties locations/flow of businesses. The Oakview Mousetrap is far, far from perfect.. But it has performed successfully in it’s past..and needs to reinvent itself again..Not unlike Crossroads in the late 80’s or more recently, what Westroads has done over the past 15 or so years..

I’m just waiting for the inevitable comment that “we” should just “blow up” Oakview.. That idea was once, famously, floated around on this forum years ago about another certain enclosed mall property (hint- it’s still standing) lol...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

There was a rumor thread about a year ago that Dillards was possibly closing. Nothing came of it, but I'll file that under the "where there's smoke, there's fire" category.

You're saying that Oak View has performed well in its past and that it needs to reinvent itself like Crossroads did in the 80's. I would argue that Crossroads isn't a great example to use when touting the success of a renovation project, yet the one that is likely the closest match to the current situation at Oak View. In the grand scheme of things, the renovation of Crossroads amounted to a roughly 10-15 year uptick. It was not enough to stem the tide of a mall that was already starting to lose favor with the masses. The renovation of Crossroads was completed in 1988. By the late 90's to early 2000's, the mall was already in full on decline mode. So, I'm not even sure that one could argue that renovation was worth the cost. The new additions to the mall saw roughly 10 years of peak occupancy before that entire wing of the mall was closed for good.

In this retail environment, it's even less likely that a huge complex like Oak View would be poised for a return to prominence no matter what kind of money you sink into it in terms of renovations and favorable lease terms to try to lure tenants.

I get that management has an obligation to try to make both centers work, but at some point, that may not be feasible. They also can't force Dillards to stay at a failing property. If it comes down to filling Westroads possibly empty Younkers bay with an existing tenant at their other location or see both locations have an empty anchor property, they'd probably welcome Dillards to Westroads with open arms.

I don't know if "blowing up" Oak View is the answer. I don't think anyone has the answers, but this mall is following the death cycles of Crossroads, Southroads, and The Center to a tee. It's more likely than not that it will require a major redevelopment or it's going to end up looking like those properties or any of hundreds of other "dead malls" in other cities. Maybe someone can come up with an example, but typically, once a mall starts to fail, it's just throwing good money at bad all the way to the end. There is typically no saving these developments once they've lost favor with the public.

A couple of things..

First, Simon was the managing company at Crossroads from 1984 until they defaulted on their Crossroads mortgage payments in 2010. After Crossroads 2nd and final renovation in 1988, Simon, imo, rested on their laurels and became an “absentee landlord” if you will..

General Growth has a proven track record in the Omaha market. If there was a managing company that I believe can Shepard a potential Oakview comeback, it’s GGP..So there is a commitment difference here that cannot be overlooked.

Which leads me to my second opinion- you mentioned Oakview and “a return to prominence” in the same sentence. This is very telling and I think strikes a cord. I don’t have all the answers either, but if I was tasked with the responsibility of breathing life into a property that has fallen off the wagon within the last decade, I’d go back to it’s origins and ask- What made Oakview a prominent consumer destination for the better part of 2 decades from the time it opened in 1991? I’m not ready to give up on Oakview. I believe it can be reborn again, but that’s the hard part and a challenge which takes hard work and a commitment to CARE. The easy way is to do what Simon did with Crossroads- become an absentee manager, do basically nothing, and let your property die in the wind..

We can speculate about Dillard’s Store performance at Oakview until the cows come home. I have heard absolutely nothing that the store is underperforming. But like I said in my last post, if the three “if’s” I presented create a perfect storm, then I’m all for Dillard’s relocating to Westroads to save the brand from closing up shop in Omaha..

I appreciate your perspective..and don’t necessarily disagree with the bulk of your post; I just have a more cup half full approach as it relates to a potential rebirth at the Oakview Mousetrap.. Admittedly, much of my hope this can be pulled off, is due to my belief in GGP...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[GrandpaaSmucker]

The market here has spoken and that's Westroads. It's closer to a bulk of the population and is further away from major competition such as Village Point, Gretna, Shadow Lake, etc. Also, it has the advantage of convenient interstate access which experts have indicated is a major factor to the survival of these developments in the 21st century. Conversely, Oak View is closer to its competition, further away from the more residents, has no interstate access, and is already in a death spiral.

Yes the market has spoken. The market is also very fickle. The Westroads is just a rape and a purse snatch away from the herd getting spooked. When that day happens Oak View will be sitting out in the nice safe end of town waiting for the herd. It is not a matter of if that will ever happen but a matter of when.

[Coyote]

Um, wrong. If Van Maur didn't spook people...

[debradomayer]

I've worked at Westroads for the last 15 years, and the mall traffic is down and the demographics have changed. Since 12/5/2007, the mall is not as robust as it was. As for the criminal activity that took down Crossroads (IMO), Westroads keeps that pretty well in check. Off duty Omaha Police on weekends along with a larger security staff.

[Coyote]

And Security gets to wear those cool hats

[debradomayer]

And Security gets to wear those cool hats

And eat donuts

[omaha79]

Cowboy,

You posed the question: I’d go back to it’s origins and ask- What made Oakview a prominent consumer destination for the better part of 2 decades from the time it opened in 1991?

I would argue that what made Oakview a prominent consumer destination for the better part of 2 decades was that it was the only true shopping destination for people West of 120th St and South of Center. That's not the case anymore. There are certainly other factors, like the overall demise of retail due to the rise of the internet, but it is worth mentioning again that Oak View's decline has also coincided with the rise of other retail developments further West and South. The money in Omaha has continued to move further West. I'm not saying there aren't still some really nice neighborhoods in that area, but that part of MIllard has certainly been replaced by Elkhorn, Gretna, and the Western reaches of Millard in terms of affluence. Those neighborhoods are now serviced by Village Point which is closer and a more convenient drive than Oak View. People in Sarpy County have been able to utilize Shadow Lake and the Gretna Outlet Mall for their shopping needs. Even Millard has more shopping than it used to with the development on the old Western Electric property.

Where Oak View used to have a corner on the market share from roughly 1991 to 2004, those days are long gone and aren't coming back. There is only so much pie to split. Oak View has an outdated structure and overall property layout combined with a bad environment for retail, and way more competition from other developments. And, there is more competition on the way when one starts to think about West Farm and the development in La Vista.

Could an inspired developer possibly find a way to revitalize Oak View? Possibly. It would buck the trend of nearly every other enclosed mall that has entered an end phase of its life cycle. Some have talked about Westroads not being what it once was, but even after the shooting, it was never struggling the way Oak View is today. That's a huge hurdle to overcome. It will take millions to renovate an aging facility that hasn't seen any meaningful renovations since it opened.

I simply can't find a reason to convince people to visit Oak View over Westroads, Village Point, or Gretna. There is very little that Oak View offers that isn't found somewhere else and in a nicer setting.

[Greg S]

Mall of the Bluffs was also a General Growth Property

[Omaha Cowboy]

Cowboy,

You posed the question: I’d go back to it’s origins and ask- What made Oakview a prominent consumer destination for the better part of 2 decades from the time it opened in 1991?

Could an inspired developer possibly find a way to revitalize Oak View? Possibly. It would buck the trend of nearly every other enclosed mall that has entered an end phase of its life cycle. Some have talked about Westroads not being what it once was, but even after the shooting, it was never struggling the way Oak View is today. That's a huge hurdle to overcome. It will take millions to renovate an aging facility that hasn't seen any meaningful renovations since it opened.

I simply can't find a reason to convince people to visit Oak View over Westroads, Village Point, or Gretna. There is very little that Oak View offers that isn't found somewhere else and in a nicer setting.

Well, if you’re a fan of shopping at Dillard’s, you can’t find that store at Westroads, Village Pointe or Gretna.. Do you like Barnes & Noble? You can’t find one at Westroads, Village Pointe or Gretna.. You want to see a movie at an IMAX Theatre? You can’t find one at Westroads, Village Pointe or Gretna. Do you like shopping at Kohl’s? You can’t find one at Westroads, Village Pointe or Gretna. But you can find all 4 in Oakview.. Point being, there continues to be destination retail, food and entertainment options at Oakview. It’s not dead. Not dead at all. There are reasons why people continue to frequent the Oakview Mousetrap.. And some of the retail that has closed, is not the fault of Oakview (Toys R Us and possibly Younkers)..

I just don’t share your inevitable gloom and doom slant that Oakview is bound to die because many other enclosed malls have followed a similar path.. Of course, most of us who post on an Omaha development forum are aware of the added shopping destination points South, west and northwest of Oakview.. This simply means GGP has their work cut out for them.. But a revitalization can be accomplished there. It’s not impossible if you’re a committed developer with a thoughtful plan..

All said, I’d hate to see Oakview go the way of the dinosaur. Even Rome eventually collapsed, lol.. But then again I drive around 72nd to 75th and Dodge.. And wouldn’t you know, the even the Crossroads still stands..

The next 5 years are crucial for the Mousetrap...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[omaha79]

Cowboy,

You posed the question: I’d go back to it’s origins and ask- What made Oakview a prominent consumer destination for the better part of 2 decades from the time it opened in 1991?

Could an inspired developer possibly find a way to revitalize Oak View? Possibly. It would buck the trend of nearly every other enclosed mall that has entered an end phase of its life cycle. Some have talked about Westroads not being what it once was, but even after the shooting, it was never struggling the way Oak View is today. That's a huge hurdle to overcome. It will take millions to renovate an aging facility that hasn't seen any meaningful renovations since it opened.

I simply can't find a reason to convince people to visit Oak View over Westroads, Village Point, or Gretna. There is very little that Oak View offers that isn't found somewhere else and in a nicer setting.

Well, if you’re a fan of shopping at Dillard’s, you can’t find that store at Westroads, Village Pointe or Gretna.. Do you like Barnes & Noble? You can’t find one at Westroads, Village Pointe or Gretna.. You want to see a movie at an IMAX Theatre? You can’t find one at Westroads, Village Pointe or Gretna. Do you like shopping at Kohl’s? You can’t find one at Westroads, Village Pointe or Gretna. But you can find all 4 in Oakview.. Point being, there continues to be destination retail, food and entertainment options at Oakview. It’s not dead. Not dead at all. There are reasons why people continue to frequent the Oakview Mousetrap.. And some of the retail that has closed, is not the fault of Oakview (Toys R Us and possibly Younkers)..

I just don’t share your inevitable gloom and doom slant that Oakview is bound to die because many other enclosed malls have followed a similar path.. Of course, most of us who post on an Omaha development forum are aware of the added shopping destination points South, west and northwest of Oakview.. This simply means GGP has their work cut out for them.. But a revitalization can be accomplished there. It’s not impossible if you’re a committed developer with a thoughtful plan..

All said, I’d hate to see Oakview go the way of the dinosaur. Even Rome eventually collapsed, lol.. But then again I drive around 72nd to 75th and Dodge.. And wouldn’t you know, the even the Crossroads still stands..

The next 5 years are crucial for the Mousetrap...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

But, outside of Dillards, none of those things are unique to Oak View. Westroads does have IMAX. There are 3 other Kohls locations in Omaha that don't require you to enter a "mousetrap." Dillards is unique. I will give them that. There is a 2nd Barnes & Noble at another struggling mall, but I can't say that touting a bookstore (another thing that's considered dying) is what I'd want to hang my hat on these days.

Like I said,, it has an outside shot at survival going forward, but it doesn't pass the eye test these days.

[Omaha Cowboy]

Cowboy,

You posed the question: I’d go back to it’s origins and ask- What made Oakview a prominent consumer destination for the better part of 2 decades from the time it opened in 1991?

Could an inspired developer possibly find a way to revitalize Oak View? Possibly. It would buck the trend of nearly every other enclosed mall that has entered an end phase of its life cycle. Some have talked about Westroads not being what it once was, but even after the shooting, it was never struggling the way Oak View is today. That's a huge hurdle to overcome. It will take millions to renovate an aging facility that hasn't seen any meaningful renovations since it opened.

I simply can't find a reason to convince people to visit Oak View over Westroads, Village Point, or Gretna. There is very little that Oak View offers that isn't found somewhere else and in a nicer setting.

Well, if you’re a fan of shopping at Dillard’s, you can’t find that store at Westroads, Village Pointe or Gretna.. Do you like Barnes & Noble? You can’t find one at Westroads, Village Pointe or Gretna.. You want to see a movie at an IMAX Theatre? You can’t find one at Westroads, Village Pointe or Gretna. Do you like shopping at Kohl’s? You can’t find one at Westroads, Village Pointe or Gretna. But you can find all 4 in Oakview.. Point being, there continues to be destination retail, food and entertainment options at Oakview. It’s not dead. Not dead at all. There are reasons why people continue to frequent the Oakview Mousetrap.. And some of the retail that has closed, is not the fault of Oakview (Toys R Us and possibly Younkers)..

I just don’t share your inevitable gloom and doom slant that Oakview is bound to die because many other enclosed malls have followed a similar path.. Of course, most of us who post on an Omaha development forum are aware of the added shopping destination points South, west and northwest of Oakview.. This simply means GGP has their work cut out for them.. But a revitalization can be accomplished there. It’s not impossible if you’re a committed developer with a thoughtful plan..

All said, I’d hate to see Oakview go the way of the dinosaur. Even Rome eventually collapsed, lol.. But then again I drive around 72nd to 75th and Dodge.. And wouldn’t you know, the even the Crossroads still stands..

The next 5 years are crucial for the Mousetrap...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

But, outside of Dillards, none of those things are unique to Oak View. Westroads does have IMAX. There are 3 other Kohls locations in Omaha that don't require you to enter a "mousetrap." Dillards is unique. I will give them that. There is a 2nd Barnes & Noble at another struggling mall, but I can't say that touting a bookstore (another thing that's considered dying) is what I'd want to hang my hat on these days.

Like I said,, it has an outside shot at survival going forward, but it doesn't pass the eye test these days.

You had mentioned not being able to convince people to shop Oakview compared to Westroads, Village Pointe and Gretna specifically.. Thus my statement that Oakview has all 4 of these locations (for example) whereas Westroads, Village Pointe and Gretna do not (again, specifically).. But that’s okay..

In the end, we’ll see what happens with the Mousetrap.. And I had forgotten the Westroads AMC was equipped with an IMAX...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[omaha79]

Cowboy,

You posed the question: I’d go back to it’s origins and ask- What made Oakview a prominent consumer destination for the better part of 2 decades from the time it opened in 1991?

Could an inspired developer possibly find a way to revitalize Oak View? Possibly. It would buck the trend of nearly every other enclosed mall that has entered an end phase of its life cycle. Some have talked about Westroads not being what it once was, but even after the shooting, it was never struggling the way Oak View is today. That's a huge hurdle to overcome. It will take millions to renovate an aging facility that hasn't seen any meaningful renovations since it opened.

I simply can't find a reason to convince people to visit Oak View over Westroads, Village Point, or Gretna. There is very little that Oak View offers that isn't found somewhere else and in a nicer setting.

Well, if you’re a fan of shopping at Dillard’s, you can’t find that store at Westroads, Village Pointe or Gretna.. Do you like Barnes & Noble? You can’t find one at Westroads, Village Pointe or Gretna.. You want to see a movie at an IMAX Theatre? You can’t find one at Westroads, Village Pointe or Gretna. Do you like shopping at Kohl’s? You can’t find one at Westroads, Village Pointe or Gretna. But you can find all 4 in Oakview.. Point being, there continues to be destination retail, food and entertainment options at Oakview. It’s not dead. Not dead at all. There are reasons why people continue to frequent the Oakview Mousetrap.. And some of the retail that has closed, is not the fault of Oakview (Toys R Us and possibly Younkers)..

I just don’t share your inevitable gloom and doom slant that Oakview is bound to die because many other enclosed malls have followed a similar path.. Of course, most of us who post on an Omaha development forum are aware of the added shopping destination points South, west and northwest of Oakview.. This simply means GGP has their work cut out for them.. But a revitalization can be accomplished there. It’s not impossible if you’re a committed developer with a thoughtful plan..

All said, I’d hate to see Oakview go the way of the dinosaur. Even Rome eventually collapsed, lol.. But then again I drive around 72nd to 75th and Dodge.. And wouldn’t you know, the even the Crossroads still stands..

The next 5 years are crucial for the Mousetrap...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

But, outside of Dillards, none of those things are unique to Oak View. Westroads does have IMAX. There are 3 other Kohls locations in Omaha that don't require you to enter a "mousetrap." Dillards is unique. I will give them that. There is a 2nd Barnes & Noble at another struggling mall, but I can't say that touting a bookstore (another thing that's considered dying) is what I'd want to hang my hat on these days.

Like I said,, it has an outside shot at survival going forward, but it doesn't pass the eye test these days.

You had mentioned not being able to convince people to shop Oakview compared to Westroads, Village Pointe and Gretna specifically.. Thus my statement that Oakview has all 4 of these locations (for example) whereas Westroads, Village Pointe and Gretna do not (again, specifically).. But that’s okay..

In the end, we’ll see what happens with the Mousetrap.. And I had forgotten the Westroads AMC was equipped with an IMAX...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

One issue with Oak View's setup is the "mousetrap". For years, Oak View has been rotting from the inside out. The mall lost occupancy while the outer ring generally did ok. Now, we are seeing the outer ring start to falter as well with the losses of Toys R Us, Babies R Us, Hy-Vee, Village Inn, Dicks, etc. These things aren't necessarily 100% related. There are multiple ills plaguing this development (as noted above), but one of the biggest issues is that the outer ring setup doesn't really entice people to shop the mall itself. One can hit Kohls or Barnes and Noble and not be enticed to step foot in the mall proper.

The one thing that Westroads has going for it is that it's all interconnected (outside of the exterior restaurants) and pushes you to explore the mall. If you are going to a movie, you're still basically there (even though there's no entrance into the mall) vs. Oak View where you have to go park in another parking lot and walk again. Same with Kohls. You have to park 3-4 times to hit many of the locations there. That is something that any future redeveloper will have to address. That's part of the reason I didn't really push Kohls as part of the mall in and of itself. I almost see those outer retailers and restaurants as a separate animal by still symbiotic to the mall. They rely on each other, but don't really necessarily help each other either. It's an odd dynamic.

[Omaha Cowboy]

Cowboy,

You posed the question: I’d go back to it’s origins and ask- What made Oakview a prominent consumer destination for the better part of 2 decades from the time it opened in 1991?

Could an inspired developer possibly find a way to revitalize Oak View? Possibly. It would buck the trend of nearly every other enclosed mall that has entered an end phase of its life cycle. Some have talked about Westroads not being what it once was, but even after the shooting, it was never struggling the way Oak View is today. That's a huge hurdle to overcome. It will take millions to renovate an aging facility that hasn't seen any meaningful renovations since it opened.

I simply can't find a reason to convince people to visit Oak View over Westroads, Village Point, or Gretna. There is very little that Oak View offers that isn't found somewhere else and in a nicer setting.

Well, if you’re a fan of shopping at Dillard’s, you can’t find that store at Westroads, Village Pointe or Gretna.. Do you like Barnes & Noble? You can’t find one at Westroads, Village Pointe or Gretna.. You want to see a movie at an IMAX Theatre? You can’t find one at Westroads, Village Pointe or Gretna. Do you like shopping at Kohl’s? You can’t find one at Westroads, Village Pointe or Gretna. But you can find all 4 in Oakview.. Point being, there continues to be destination retail, food and entertainment options at Oakview. It’s not dead. Not dead at all. There are reasons why people continue to frequent the Oakview Mousetrap.. And some of the retail that has closed, is not the fault of Oakview (Toys R Us and possibly Younkers)..

I just don’t share your inevitable gloom and doom slant that Oakview is bound to die because many other enclosed malls have followed a similar path.. Of course, most of us who post on an Omaha development forum are aware of the added shopping destination points South, west and northwest of Oakview.. This simply means GGP has their work cut out for them.. But a revitalization can be accomplished there. It’s not impossible if you’re a committed developer with a thoughtful plan..

All said, I’d hate to see Oakview go the way of the dinosaur. Even Rome eventually collapsed, lol.. But then again I drive around 72nd to 75th and Dodge.. And wouldn’t you know, the even the Crossroads still stands..

The next 5 years are crucial for the Mousetrap...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

But, outside of Dillards, none of those things are unique to Oak View. Westroads does have IMAX. There are 3 other Kohls locations in Omaha that don't require you to enter a "mousetrap." Dillards is unique. I will give them that. There is a 2nd Barnes & Noble at another struggling mall, but I can't say that touting a bookstore (another thing that's considered dying) is what I'd want to hang my hat on these days.

Like I said,, it has an outside shot at survival going forward, but it doesn't pass the eye test these days.

You had mentioned not being able to convince people to shop Oakview compared to Westroads, Village Pointe and Gretna specifically.. Thus my statement that Oakview has all 4 of these locations (for example) whereas Westroads, Village Pointe and Gretna do not (again, specifically).. But that’s okay..

In the end, we’ll see what happens with the Mousetrap.. And I had forgotten the Westroads AMC was equipped with an IMAX...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

One issue with Oak View's setup is the "mousetrap". For years, Oak View has been rotting from the inside out. The mall lost occupancy while the outer ring generally did ok. Now, we are seeing the outer ring start to falter as well with the losses of Toys R Us, Babies R Us, Hy-Vee, Village Inn, Dicks, etc. These things aren't necessarily 100% related. There are multiple ills plaguing this development (as noted above), but one of the biggest issues is that the outer ring setup doesn't really entice people to shop the mall itself. One can hit Kohls or Barnes and Noble and not be enticed to step foot in the mall proper.

The one thing that Westroads has going for it is that it's all interconnected (outside of the exterior restaurants) and pushes you to explore the mall. If you are going to a movie, you're still basically there (even though there's no entrance into the mall) vs. Oak View where you have to go park in another parking lot and walk again. Same with Kohls. You have to park 3-4 times to hit many of the locations there. That is something that any future redeveloper will have to address. That's part of the reason I didn't really push Kohls as part of the mall in and of itself. I almost see those outer retailers and restaurants as a separate animal by still symbiotic to the mall. They rely on each other, but don't really necessarily help each other either. It's an odd dynamic.

Yes. I agree. I’ve been calling The entire Oakview shopping area a Mousetrap for years now. It’s an odd dynamic indeed and a circle within a circle dynamic which is, let’s just say, not very convenient to move around in..and there is not a lot of connectivity between the outer ring and the enclosed mall components..

And now, not related to the possible demise of Oakview, but another blow to the enclosed mall, it appears ALL Younkers and related Bon-Ton stores are one step closer to closing for good. From today’s W-H:

“Bon-Ton Stores, owner of the Younkers department store chain, will likely liquidate and close all of its stores, according to sources familiar with the matter cited by the Reuters news service.

The company filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy in February. An auction was held Monday. The only two bidders for the company were liquidation firms, according to the report. Liquidation firms get what they can for a company's assets before shutting it down.”..

The complete story link:

http://www.omaha.com/money/younker-s-li ... 6532d.html

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[bigredmed1]

Losing Younkers will be a loss to Omaha in some manner. Von Maurs is far superior for upscale items and Penneys is far superior for volume items. What is really going to hurt around the state is the loss of the Herberger's stores which are the only department store in some of these areas around Neb. This leaves a lot of our state down to local stores that are hanging on and Walmart.

[RockHarbor]

It is interesting the "mouse trap" term & discussion. When I would visit Oak View Mall, it still seemed fairly busy, and in my feeling, it seemed to be turning into a "world melting pot of cultures" mall more than in earlier years. Many of the people shopping (many possibly were from India or somewhere) appeared to just look at it as an "another cool American mall" to shop at, not aware that many native Omahans turn their nose up at it now, or are now totally bored with it. I'm glad about that business I see there, people who seem clueless about the stigma & snub affiliated with that mall. Thank goodness for Oak View Omaha is getting more diverse. (Although it has pretty & dramatic architectural features I find likeable & exciting, I've just never been crazy about Oak View for some reason. It always has felt an "oddball" mall to me, squeezed into a giant -- but still not big enough -- lot on 144th & West Center, within view of Millard's old white water tower, like part of Omaha's scene, but still not part of Omaha's heart -- or something. It still feels that way to me. And, Im glad it wasn't named "Oak Roads" and all. I really just want the best for Oak View.)

[bigredmed1]

It is interesting the "mouse trap" term & discussion. When I would visit Oak View Mall, it still seemed fairly busy, but in my feeling, it seemed to be turning into a "world melting pot of cultures" mall more than it was growing up. Many of the people shopping (many possibly were from India or somewhere) appeared to just look at it as "an another American mall" to shop at, not aware that many native Omahans turn their nose up at it now, or are totally bored with it. I'm glad about that business there, people whom seem clueless about the stigma affiliated with that mall. Thank goodness for Oak View Omaha is getting more diverse. (Although it has pretty & dramatic architectural features I find likeable & exciting, I've just never been crazy about Oak View for some reason. It always has felt an "oddball" mall to me, squeezed into a giant -- but still not big enough -- lot on 144th & West Center, within view of Millard's old white water tower, like part of Omaha's scene, but still not part of Omaha's heart -- or something. It still feels that way to me. And, Im glad it wasn't named "Oak Roads" and all. I'm not being negative. I really just want the best for Oak View.)

We do call it OakRoads. Keeps the mall names simple. Besides, The Oaks and OakHills are so far away from Oakview that you really can't view either from there.

[RockHarbor]

It is interesting the "mouse trap" term & discussion. When I would visit Oak View Mall, it still seemed fairly busy, but in my feeling, it seemed to be turning into a "world melting pot of cultures" mall more than it was growing up. Many of the people shopping (many possibly were from India or somewhere) appeared to just look at it as "an another American mall" to shop at, not aware that many native Omahans turn their nose up at it now, or are totally bored with it. I'm glad about that business there, people whom seem clueless about the stigma affiliated with that mall. Thank goodness for Oak View Omaha is getting more diverse. (Although it has pretty & dramatic architectural features I find likeable & exciting, I've just never been crazy about Oak View for some reason. It always has felt an "oddball" mall to me, squeezed into a giant -- but still not big enough -- lot on 144th & West Center, within view of Millard's old white water tower, like part of Omaha's scene, but still not part of Omaha's heart -- or something. It still feels that way to me. And, Im glad it wasn't named "Oak Roads" and all. I'm not being negative. I really just want the best for Oak View.)

We do call it OakRoads. Keeps the mall names simple. Besides, The Oaks and OakHills are so far away from Oakview that you really can't view either from there.

"Oak Roads" makes me smile. I was meaning that I don't feel an Omaha mall needs to have the word "Roads" in it to fit nicely and be accepted by Omahans. Frankly, I'm glad Oak View broke the trend, personally.

I also feel like Oak View was probably designed by an outside firm that didn't know the feel of Omaha -- therefore it doesn't 100% feel like "Omaha" to me. It more feels like a pastel & palmy, white & grey Orlando mall, or something. I'm not against design by an outside firm sometimes, but sometimes that isn't always the best choice either. It's interesting to me how some developments work and are a success, and other ones are not, and analyzing why. Something can look great on paper and blue prints, but doesn't work well in person because people don't like the feel of it.

Also, that mall's design -- dripping with glamorous materials & fun features, such as mirrored glass, shiny marble, neon, glass block bridges, palms, skylights, glass & silver railings -- would have felt better, imo, out beyond the edge of town with brand spankin' new housing & shopping forming around it, like a central, alluring "town center" or "anchor" to a new suburb, and not just "plopped" tightly amid older 60's/70's/80's split-entry Millard housing, with a dirty, rattling train track running right behind it, with many industrial areas around. If that weren't enough... Around the mall's roadway ring, they built businesses at odd, crooked angles, and the big movie theater feels stuffed in a far back corner, odd lot. It all feels weird & squeezed-in to me through there -- like there was no consideration of existing surroundings or context, and the mall is some fancy, shiny "alien intruder" to that non-flashy, aged middle class area. That's what I don't like about it all. (Notice Westroads had room to spread out on a "clean slate" beyond the edge of town, adjacent to the interstate, enough lawn space to allow groupings of evergreens to grow tall, and junipers to spread big, the circular parkway looping wide and the parking lot very expansive & large, the mall surrounded by fancier real estate and nice office buildings. It feels better, nicer. If Oak View were much the same design and bigger, had lengthened arms, and were placed out w/ new shopping & homes out in an area right off the Blair Highway, the large glass peak kind of a "center focal point" to the area, I would like it way better.)

***When you go to small cities, their shopping malls' interior & exterior design can feel & look below par, sometimes downright cheesy -- like people don't have a sense of class & style, nor really care about things looking "with it" and ultra-sharp. That's what some Omaha planning/design in the 90's feels like to me. There are decisions made and moves pulled that I can't imagine done in places like Denver or Minneapolis or Kansas City. Thankfully, Omaha doesn't seem that way to me anymore.***

[bigredmed1]

Funny you should feel.that way. To me Omaha is a small young city from an esthetic sense. It seemed that in the 70s you could get away with anything as long as NYC did it first. Once the art and culture control of the NewYorkiphiles had ended, the 80s saw the Orlandofication of SW Omaha which we still see the consequences of in the 2 lane farm roads feeding 5k people into and out of the rest of the city.

To me Oakroads also seemed generic. No useful feature or style. The Westroads had a commuter helipad to anticipate airborne commuters that never developed due to the legal strangulation of private aviation. Oakroads was just a box planted out there so folks in Harvey Oaks had a place to go.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

I always liked how the interior felt like it belonged in Southern California. It still looks nice after 25 years. Though I’m still a little mad they replaced the fountain with a Starbucks.

The big boxes around it though are a shitshow.

[omaha79]

To my eyes, Oak View Mall is so 90's it hurts. I guess that's coming back in style, but I've never liked the aesthetic of Oak View. I agree with the poster above. Lots of teal (so 90's). Lots of neon. Lots of frosted glass. Lots of brass accents. Add in some marble flooring. It's like you've stepped back into a time warp to the very early 90's. The early 90's were almost like an even more garish version of the late 80's with all of the neon colors and wacky patterns in things.

I've always thought that the fact that Oak View didn't renovate to keep up with current trends as part of its downfall. Westroads has had multiple renovations. It's more understated and classic feeling. It just works better from an aesthetic sense.

On another note, I've always thought the spoke shape of Oak View was more cumbersome than the Westroads. The halls all look the same and I always found it easy to take the wrong hallway there and get turned around.

And yes, the cluster that is/was the outer ring of strip malls is horrendous from an urban planning perspective and I've always found it messy in terms of traffic and parking. Just not a great experience.

[iamjacobm]

Light Rail, find a way to make a deal to use some ROW between I-80 and the railroad tracks between here and DT. Have BRT on 144th to feed into the area, have a stop at 72nd for the BRT running on that street eventually, the line ends downtown near an expanded streetcar system. Tear the whole mess of a mall and outer ring down and turn Oakview it into our version of Stapleton in Denver. Start planning now, in a decade or two it may be feasible.

[RockHarbor]

It's interesting hearing everybody's viewpoints of Oak View (some similar, some very different)! Personally, I've always thought it was a pretty mall, but I agree, the 90's pastel shades of blue & pink (which make me think of FL, and others of CA) need to be shipped out. Even just leaving the white, grey, and that orangey-rust marble combo is classic & pretty... I wish they would bulldoze most of the businesses crammed-in around it (even the medical bldg, as none of them match the other, there is no architectural theme in the area at all). I wish they would extend the mall's arms so the mall doesn't feel like it has unusual, stumpy hallways meeting an over-the-top, grand, central court. It needs more balance. (That, or I think it would feel better with 3 stacked floors, if the mall wasn't extended outward. It's too small & silly-feeling to me, capped with a gigantic "mothership" skylight.) With the exterior businesses gone, the parkway could wind around the mall as a greater ring that allowed greater parking. I would also have more grassy lawn areas with groups of tall, stately evergreens and nice bushes to accent the mall. I would also order mirror-glass to create a mirror effect in the Dillard's arched entrances (which are just left cold & harsh grey cement, which is strange to me, looking like the once ordered mirror glass shipment never came in). In essence, I wish all (or most) of that gigantic lot was committed to the mall itself -- and maybe a few outer parking lot business (that complimented the look & style of the mall). Like any of that will ever happen... Keep dreamin', RockHarbor.

[Omaha Cowboy]

I always liked how the interior felt like it belonged in Southern California. It still looks nice after 25 years. Though I’m still a little mad they replaced the fountain with a Starbucks.

As an FYI.. it’s a Scooters now, I believe. I think Starbucks closed up shop at Oakview around 2011 or 2012..

Anywho, as I’ve stated previously, I’ve referred to Oakview as “the Mousetrap” for a number of years now.. I think it stems from an experience I had during the Christmas shopping time frame in the early 2000’s. I recall being stuck in a circular Mousetrap ring of traffic leaving a store in the outer ring, then proceeding to the enclosed mall, then having to re-enter the congested circular Oakview Mousetrap once again to go to another store in the outer ring.. I spent more time in my car stuck in traffic congestion, than I did actually shopping in the stores..

I also recall thinking, after that experience, never again, lol...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[RockHarbor]

Funny you should feel.that way. To me Omaha is a small young city from an esthetic sense. It seemed that in the 70s you could get away with anything as long as NYC did it first. Once the art and culture control of the NewYorkiphiles had ended, the 80s saw the Orlandofication of SW Omaha which we still see the consequences of in the 2 lane farm roads feeding 5k people into and out of the rest of the city.

To me Oakroads also seemed generic. No useful feature or style. The Westroads had a commuter helipad to anticipate airborne commuters that never developed due to the legal strangulation of private aviation. Oakroads was just a box planted out there so folks in Harvey Oaks had a place to go.

I wanted to respond to you on this... I totally agree about the 2-lane road aspect of Omaha. Because the farm grid exists, it is easy for them to use those 2-lane roads to hold the suburbs over for years & years, even when they are clogged w/ traffic, crying out for a 4-lane road & median. Then, it's a sort of nightmare of orange barrels & cones when they finally widen the street. That's typical of Midwestern cities, but not western. Most western cities tend to put in the 4-lane parkway beforehand.

"Oak Roads" was justified when enough population surrounded 144th & West Center -- including the popular 70's subdivision of Harvey Oaks. Just before Oak View was built, Topeka got the new West Ridge Mall (which had some fun & glamorous 80's/90's features, including a Dillards with dramatic entrances), so I kinda wonder if that gave Omaha the idea for a new, updated, modern mall in its western fringes, too. Almost like, the recent remodels at Crossroads & Westroads wouldn't cut it; Omaha needed a new, fun, glam "West Ridge Mall", too. (Who knows...just speculating.)

Here is an aerial of West Ridge Mall: http://washingtonprime.com/assets/prope ... 003917.jpg Notice the mall has a pointy, octagonal skylight in the center court, and four department stores, two snugly fit by the center court, and two at the end of each 'L' arm, like Oak View. It also has arched & gabled entrances at department stores, like Oak View. I like the look & layout of WRM more than OVM; I wish that were Omaha's "Oak View" instead. The mall's hallway arms are longer, the mall feels more a normal design, the parking and ring more spacious. The developers of WRM had a bigger lot on the edge of town and a true "clean slate" to work with. However, compared to WRM, Oak View's central skylight is way bigger, and Oak View's interior had fancier marble & materials used. I wonder, if there is a connection to WRM being finished in 1988, and Omaha announcing Oak View in 1988, and if the design was copied a bit, if they compensated for the mall being smaller, confined on a smaller lot?

Here is a recent picture of Oak View I found. Did they paint the skylight sections more a sea green color, and install sea green lighting (instead of baby blue)? Or, is it just the picture? If so, that is a nice update with the white. It is a pretty mall -- no argument there. https://www.oakviewmall.com/content/dam ... 67x510.jpg

Des Moines' Jordan Creek Mall feels & looks nice in every regard. The interior & exterior match "Midwest Living" well, and the layout of the mall & surrounding businesses feels spacious & attractive. P.S. That "mouse trap" talked about here sounds horrible. I've never been through that at that mall before, thankfully.

[Busguy2010]

Tear the whole mess of a mall and outer ring down and turn Oakview it into our version of Stapleton in Denver. Start planning now, in a decade or two it may be feasible.

I vote for this one.

[buildomaha]

What exactly does “mouse trap” mean when talking about a mall?

[Coyote]

What exactly does “mouse trap” mean when talking about a mall?

The goal of retailers and mall designers is to get consumers inside and keep them there indefinitely—to increase the chances that shoppers will buy more and more “cheese,” so to speak.

[youtube][/youtube]

[RockHarbor]

I thought he explained the "mouse trap" as a traffic jam he was stuck in at Christmas, on that looping parkway around the mall. (?) BTW....I never put together the fact that the name "Oak View" probably came about due to the mall being built in the Harvey Oaks area, not to mention the Crescent Oaks subdivision across the street. I just started questioning where they came up with "Oak View" today. Duh... (Thanks to BigRed for bringing Harvey Oaks up.)

[Omaha Cowboy]

What exactly does “mouse trap” mean when talking about a mall?

The goal of retailers and mall designers is to get consumers inside and keep them there indefinitely—to increase the chances that shoppers will buy more and more “cheese,” so to speak.

[youtube][/youtube]

This is pretty much the concept.. And my traffic grid experience years ago at the Oakview Mousetrap enhanced the feeling that I was being detained in a slow moving circular retail traffic loop..destined to spend the bulk of my waking hours stuck in a retail environment with the hopes I’d take the “cheese” and spend more than I had planned..

A basic, but brilliant concept actually...

Ciao..LiO...Peace