Omaha Eppley Airfield - DISCUSSION

[Ryan Air]

OMA-MIA on American ending in October.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1392243

[daveoma]

That's really too bad. There's a ton of money that moves through Miami to and from Latin America. Given that there's a fair amount of finance in Omaha, I was hoping this would be an impetus for some pan-american business ventures. Given the current unstable and unpredictable political climate, it would be nice for our farmers to find some new markets in Latin America for their corn.

[Ryan Air]

That's really too bad. There's a ton of money that moves through Miami to and from Latin America. Given that there's a fair amount of finance in Omaha, I was hoping this would be an impetus for some pan-american business ventures. Given the current unstable and unpredictable political climate, it would be nice for our farmers to find some new markets in Latin America for their corn.

I don’t think it’s permanent. I think they want people to use the PHL/ DFW and CLT connections.

I’d be interested in Mr Nuke’s analysis of MIA-OMA/OMA-MIA PDEW VS load factors/seats to see how this flight was doing.

[joleo]

I'm surprised they didn't try and adjust the times or anything to make it work. The loads were decent on it from what I saw and tickets were never what I would call cheap! I don't know how many last minute travelers they were getting though. Looks like all the last minute tickets were always over $1,000 roundtrip on this route, even on the days the flights were not full.

On OMA-LAX, American changed the flight times and changed to a smaller plane to make the route work or maybe it is still not working great, I don't know. But at least they tried adjusting flight times etc and gave the route time to mature.

A friend from Lincoln travels to Miami for work once a month, he didn't take the flight because it leaves at 6am which is too early if you live in Lincoln. He said if it left at 9am he would have been all over this flight! I'd assuming the 300k people in lincoln most would feel this way. I live in Des Moines and I know that's how I feel about the OMA-PDX flight, you can't make it work so the catchment area for passengers becomes just Omaha and nothing over 45 minutes away (you exclude Lincoln and all the surrounding areas). OMA-SEA and OMA-San Diego work much better and I've known people that have driven to Omaha from Des Moines to catch both these flights with afternoon departures!

I would venture to guess this flight would have made more money leaving Miami around 3pm and leaving omaha around 8 am vs 6am. This would have meant the same plane couldn't return to Miami and they would have to cycle the plane through chicago or another city. If you do a schedule like Omaha to Seattle or San Diego, that doesn't work for the cruise traffic unless you leave the day before, which then it would work. Maybe an afternoon departure from Omaha and a morning departure from Miami would have been best? Just brainstorming. Disappointed American didn't give this route time to mature or play with the flight times. I wonder if there is something else at play here behind the scenes? I hope the World Herald does a write up, it could shed some more light on the situation.

[Mr.Nuke]

2017 Q3 PDEW
Chicago 409
Denver 338
D.C. 266
LA 260
NYC 225
Dallas 200
Phoenix 198
San Francisco 180
Seattle 175
Las Vegas 169
Portland 143
Houston 137
Orlando 135
Atlanta 125
San Diego 117
Boston 114
St Louis 104
Tampa 78
Minneapolis 78
Charlotte 68
Detroit 66
Salt Lake City 62
Miami 57
Philadelphia 57
Nashville 53
Sacramento 51
San Antonio 46
Raleigh/Durham 40
Austin 40
Cleveland 31
New Orleans 31
Columbus (OH) 30
Norfolk 30
Sanford FL 26
Indianapolis 26
Pittsburgh 26
Milwaukee 24
Spokane 23
Cincinnati 23
Hartford 23
Reno 22

Q4 PDEW
Chicago 378
Phoenix 290
Denver 285
D.C. 257
LA 229
Las Vegas 208
Dallas 206
San Francisco 165
Houston 160
Orlando 160
Atlanta 138
Seattle 127
San Diego 115
St. Louis 107
Boston 89
Miami 84
Tampa 83
Portland 81
Minneapolis 77
Detroit 65
Charlotte 65
St Lake City 62
Philadelphia 55
San Antonio 48
Nashville 45
Sacramento 42
Austin 40
Raleigh Durham 38
Sanford Fl 37
Columbus 36
Fort Myers 33
Pittsburgh 32
New Orleans 32
Cleveland 32
Indianapolis 28
Cincinnati 27
Milwaukee 26
Norfolk (VA) 25
Hartford 24
Jacksonville 22
Tucson 21
Louisville 20
Spokane 19
Boise 19
Buffalo 11
Pensacola 11
Palm Springs 11
Greensboro 10

[Mr.Nuke]

I’d be interested in Mr Nuke’s analysis of MIA-OMA/OMA-MIA PDEW VS load factors/seats to see how this flight was doing.

We’ve only got load factor data for the first 4 months of the route (July through October), but it doesn’t look like it was doing stellar. Keep in mind too that loads are only one half of the equation. Yield data may tell a different story. That said, in July the combined MIA-OMA and OMA-MIA LF was 62% or 47 seats on a 76-seat plane. August 53.5% or 41 seats. September 47.8% or about 36 seats. October 60% or 46 seats.

Q3 average load was 41 seats or about a 54.4% load factor. Q3 OMA-MIA PDEW was 57 people, Q4 was 83. In Q3 American had 47% of the O/D OMA-MIA market or about 27 passengers a day. In Q4 American had 41.4% of the market for about 35 passengers a day. That implies a fair chunk of the passengers were connecting i.e. in Q3 even if we assume every O/D American passenger (27) was on that flight (they weren’t) on average 14 passengers were connecting (more than 1/3 of the passengers on the plane). So at that point rather than flying a half empty plane like you noted you can cancel the route and accommodate (especially the 33% of the people that were already connecting somewhere) through your existing route structure out of Omaha.

I'm surprised they didn't try and adjust the times or anything to make it work.

I don’t know that there was anything to adjust. You can’t really downgauge the plane like they did on LA as the next plane in line (ERJ-145) would be at the edge of its limitations and those of passenger comfort on a flight that long. And the flight timing was probably what allowed them to try this in the first place. Essentially you took a plane at the end of its day in Miami that would’ve probably otherwise sat at a gate overnight and booked it on one more flight.

The loads were decent on it from what I saw and tickets were never what I would call cheap! I don't know how many last minute travelers they were getting though. Looks like all the last minute tickets were always over $1,000 roundtrip on this route, even on the days the flights were not full.

The load’s were not great at all…

On OMA-LAX, American changed the flight times and changed to a smaller plane to make the route work or maybe it is still not working great, I don't know. But at least they tried adjusting flight times etc and gave the route time to mature.

OMA-LAX also has 200 more people a day flying between the two cities on O/D travel alone. It is fairly easy to see a case for tweaking timing or down-gauging a plane there. Even with the A-319 they had been using they were filling 60-90 seats a month. That is a pretty obvious case to down-gauge to a 76 seat plane and jack up the fares. When you’re already using a 76 seat plane only getting 35-45 passengers the case becomes less obvious.

A friend from Lincoln travels to Miami for work once a month, he didn't take the flight because it leaves at 6am which is too early if you live in Lincoln. He said if it left at 9am he would have been all over this flight! I'd assuming the 300k people in lincoln most would feel this way.

I don’t disagree, but operationally it isn’t practical. That is 3 hours or essentially at least one less revenue flight that the plane could do that day. That adds up and it especially adds up on a marginal route to begin with.

This would have meant the same plane couldn't return to Miami and they would have to cycle the plane through chicago or another city.

For anything other than what they were doing it would’ve basically required rotating the plane through.

I wonder if there is something else at play here behind the scenes? I hope the World Herald does a write up, it could shed some more light on the situation.

It was a marginal route to begin with that didn’t develop. American is also about to add capacity here with 2X PHL flights. The flight wasn’t generating a lot of traffic in general, it lacked O/D traffic, and AA can re-accommodate most of the passengers that had been using the flight to connect to XYZ through their existing network out of OMA. It seems pretty transparent to me.

[Ryan Air]

I’d be interested in Mr Nuke’s analysis of MIA-OMA/OMA-MIA PDEW VS load factors/seats to see how this flight was doing.

We’ve only got load factor data for the first 4 months of the route (July through October), but it doesn’t look like it was doing stellar. Keep in mind too that loads are only one half of the equation. Yield data may tell a different story. That said, in July the combined MIA-OMA and OMA-MIA LF was 62% or 47 seats on a 76-seat plane. August 53.5% or 41 seats. September 47.8% or about 36 seats. October 60% or 46 seats.

Q3 average load was 41 seats or about a 54.4% load factor. Q3 OMA-MIA PDEW was 57 people, Q4 was 83. In Q3 American had 47% of the O/D OMA-MIA market or about 27 passengers a day. In Q4 American had 41.4% of the market for about 35 passengers a day. That implies a fair chunk of the passengers were connecting i.e. in Q3 even if we assume every O/D American passenger (27) was on that flight (they weren’t) on average 14 passengers were connecting (more than 1/3 of the passengers on the plane). So at that point rather than flying a half empty plane like you noted you can cancel the route and accommodate (especially the 33% of the people that were already connecting somewhere) through your existing route structure out of Omaha.

I'm surprised they didn't try and adjust the times or anything to make it work.

I don’t know that there was anything to adjust. You can’t really downgauge the plane like they did on LA as the next plane in line (ERJ-145) would be at the edge of its limitations and those of passenger comfort on a flight that long. And the flight timing was probably what allowed them to try this in the first place. Essentially you took a plane at the end of its day in Miami that would’ve probably otherwise sat at a gate overnight and booked it on one more flight.

The loads were decent on it from what I saw and tickets were never what I would call cheap! I don't know how many last minute travelers they were getting though. Looks like all the last minute tickets were always over $1,000 roundtrip on this route, even on the days the flights were not full.

The load’s were not great at all…

On OMA-LAX, American changed the flight times and changed to a smaller plane to make the route work or maybe it is still not working great, I don't know. But at least they tried adjusting flight times etc and gave the route time to mature.

OMA-LAX also has 200 more people a day flying between the two cities on O/D travel alone. It is fairly easy to see a case for tweaking timing or down-gauging a plane there. Even with the A-319 they had been using they 60-90 seats a month. That is a pretty obvious case to down-gauge to a 76 seat plane and jack up the fares. When you’re already using a 76 seat plane only getting 35-45 passengers the case becomes less obvious.

A friend from Lincoln travels to Miami for work once a month, he didn't take the flight because it leaves at 6am which is too early if you live in Lincoln. He said if it left at 9am he would have been all over this flight! I'd assuming the 300k people in lincoln most would feel this way.

I don’t disagree, but operationally it isn’t practical. That is 3 hours or essentially at least one less revenue flight that the plane could do that day. That adds up and it especially adds up on a marginal route to begin with.

This would have meant the same plane couldn't return to Miami and they would have to cycle the plane through chicago or another city.

For anything other than what they were doing it would’ve basically required rotating the plane through.

I wonder if there is something else at play here behind the scenes? I hope the World Herald does a write up, it could shed some more light on the situation.

It was a marginal route to begin with that didn’t develop. American is also about to add capacity here with 2X PHL flights. The flight wasn’t generating a lot of traffic in general, it lacked O/D traffic, and AA can re-accommodate most of the passengers that had been using the flight to connect to XYZ through their existing network out of OMA. It seems pretty transparent to me.

I know it’s a good explaination when I have to read it twice, take notes, and do math. Interesting to see the rest of the numbers on that route when they’re available.

[Mr.Nuke]

Interesting to see the rest of the numbers on that route when they’re available.

It turns out sooner than you expected. I’ve got three more months due to domestic carriers reporting quicker than international carriers in another spot (my bad). November was a 68.9% load factor or about 52 seats per flight. December 70% or 53 seats per flight. January 77% or 58.6 seats per flight. The Q4 average LF was 66% or about 50.5 seats per flight. Given the PDEW data from the previous post about 70% of the plane was O/D 30% or 15 of the 50 seats were connecting passengers.

I don't have Q3 or Q4 data on the following so it isn't quite apples to apples, but AA's system-wide breakeven load factor for Q1 was 77% and Q2 was 76% https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... -final.pdf. Based on PDEW data (it has average fares for AA on OMA-MIA) I don’t see a case for arguing the route had necessarily high fare yields either. We’ll continue to watch the data, but basically to me it looks like out of the 7 months of data we have, they probably turned a profit in only one of those months (January), at a time when you would expect relatively peak leisure travel from Omaha to a warmer destination. With the cancellation, I wouldn't be surprised to see loads dropping off as we get Feb., March, and April data. I also wouldn't be surprised if advance booking data (something we obviously don't have and won't get) factored into any decision as well.

[Uffda]

How's the new garage coming?

Really well, the rental car facility will add some much needed modern design to the airport and the garages make it feel like your in a canyon headed out. They can't get here soon enough based on the frequency that OMA's social media posts that the garage is full.

I flew out of Tampa last Monday and had to drop off my rental car (i picked it up at St Pete). The experience was completely different then when I flew out in early January. It use to be you could pick up your luggage of the carousel - go out and cross the pickup passengers lanes and then walk into the Rental Car area. Get your info and go the garage next door.

Now you drop your car off at a new garage about 1.5 miles from terminal - about a 5 minute trip - go upstairs and catch the SkyConnect Train to the airport. It stops at economy parking and then the terminal. You then take an escalator down to the concourse level. When you are flying in and have luggage you have to go down an escalator/elevator to the ground floor to get your luggage then you take a long escalator or elevator up to the SkyConnect Level -- so that is kind of interesting. Found a couple of photos and a train guy video

[youtube][/youtube]

[Ryan Air]

Interesting to see the rest of the numbers on that route when they’re available.

It turns out sooner than you expected. I’ve got three more months due to domestic carriers reporting quicker than international carriers in another spot (my bad). November was a 68.9% load factor or about 52 seats per flight. December 70% or 53 seats per flight. January 77% or 58.6 seats per flight. The Q4 average LF was 66% or about 50.5 seats per flight. Given the PDEW data from the previous post about 70% of the plane was O/D 30% or 15 of the 50 seats were connecting passengers.

I don't have Q3 or Q4 data on the following so it isn't quite apples to apples, but AA's system-wide breakeven load factor for Q1 was 77% and Q2 was 76% https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... -final.pdf. Based on PDEW data (it has average fares for AA on OMA-MIA) I don’t see a case for arguing the route had necessarily high fare yields either. We’ll continue to watch the data, but basically to me it looks like out of the 7 months of data we have, they probably turned a profit in only one of those months (January), at a time when you would expect relatively peak leisure travel from Omaha to a warmer destination. With the cancellation, I wouldn't be surprised to see loads dropping off as we get Feb., March, and April data. I also wouldn't be surprised if advance booking data (something we obviously don't have and won't get) factored into any decision as well.

Christmas came early with the response. Ha! Thank you! Interesting info. and clearly shows the reason behind their decision.

[Ryan Air]

I have pictures of construction. Overhead and under new suspended rental car building- taken with my phone. It says file is too large to attach (which it always does and I would post more I have more often if this place allowed for normal pictures)
Anyway, can I send them to somebody to post?

[Mr.Nuke]

I have pictures of construction. Overhead and under new suspended rental car building- taken with my phone. It says file is too large to attach (which it always does and I would post more I have more often if this place allowed for normal pictures)
Anyway, can I send them to somebody to post?

Have you tried something like creating an imgur account and linking from there?

[Ryan Air]

I have pictures of construction. Overhead and under new suspended rental car building- taken with my phone. It says file is too large to attach (which it always does and I would post more I have more often if this place allowed for normal pictures)
Anyway, can I send them to somebody to post?

Have you tried something like creating an imgur account and linking from there?

Ha! Yes, memory issues with phone too many apps. I’ll figure something out.

[Garrett]

I have pictures of construction. Overhead and under new suspended rental car building- taken with my phone. It says file is too large to attach (which it always does and I would post more I have more often if this place allowed for normal pictures)
Anyway, can I send them to somebody to post?

Have you tried something like creating an imgur account and linking from there?

Ha! Yes, memory issues with phone too many apps. I’ll figure something out.

You don’t need to get an app: just look up imgur upload and you’ll be taken to the proper screen

[Ryan Air]

Thanks for the advice. Hopefully it works.

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[Ryan Air]

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[Ryan Air]

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[Ryan Air]

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[Ryan Air]

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[Ryan Air]

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[Ryan Air]

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[Ryan Air]

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[Ryan Air]

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[Stargazer]

Very cool.

[daveoma]

That looks nice!

[Ryan Air]

Got some new pics today: movement and Air Canada’s ticket counter. DL 75’s and UA 739’s

https://m.imgur.com/account/RyanAir0312/images

[BRoss]

Got some new pics today: movement and Air Canada’s ticket counter. DL 75’s and UA 739’s

https://m.imgur.com/account/RyanAir0312/images

Got a 404 when I tried to check them out.

[Ryan Air]

Got some new pics today: movement and Air Canada’s ticket counter. DL 75’s and UA 739’s

https://m.imgur.com/account/RyanAir0312/images

Got a 404 when I tried to check them out.

I feel like uploading pictures on here should be easier. Try this:

[Ryan Air]

I forgot my pic on Tuesday of AS 737-900 “more to love” livery plane (celebration of merger with Virgin America)

[damonhynes]

Thanks for the photos! You can sure then when Buffettmania strikes--nice to see the upgauges!

[Ben]

One small, but nice addition to the north terminal that I noticed last week when flying back - Many people bemoan the lack of food options at Eppley within security, but they just added a fridge stocked with Eat Fit Go meals. While not a full dining option, at least its something...

[Omaha Cowboy]

One small, but nice addition to the north terminal that I noticed last week when flying back - Many people bemoan the lack of food options at Eppley within security, but they just added a fridge stocked with Eat Fit Go meals. While not a full dining option, at least its something...

I agree. You’ve got to start somewhere..

And great photos Ryan Air ...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[damonhynes]

One small, but nice addition to the north terminal that I noticed last week when flying back - Many people bemoan the lack of food options at Eppley within security, but they just added a fridge stocked with Eat Fit Go meals. While not a full dining option, at least its something...

I'm disgusted that since I fly DL and AA instead of UA and WN, I'm cheated out of Godfather's Pizza...#firstworldproblems

[Omababe]

Got some new pics today: movement and Air Canada’s ticket counter. DL 75’s and UA 739’s

I flew back in the other day and looked around. They sure have Air Canada hidden away and shoehorned into a gate in a corner of the terminal! No really obvious Air Canada signage and such as with the other airlines. I hope this is not an omen that they consider this temporary!

[Ryan Air]

Got some new pics today: movement and Air Canada’s ticket counter. DL 75’s and UA 739’s

I flew back in the other day and looked around. They sure have Air Canada hidden away and shoehorned into a gate in a corner of the terminal! No really obvious Air Canada signage and such as with the other airlines. I hope this is not an omen that they consider this temporary!

They have the same amount of signage as other airlines. They have one up front on front drive. They have one over ticket counter. They have it on signs directing locations of airlines.

They utilize monitors (behind counter and at gate) that are only on during flight operation.

They only have two flights a day (one inbound and one outbound).

Allegiant has less signage than Air Canada. Too bad they aren’t leaving ha!

[Bob from Omaha]

Wow! Check out the NEW AND VERY IMPROVED flyoma.com !

Very much improved. Better maps, more info, nice design. Definitely steps ahead of the 90s version.

[buildomaha]

Yay! It’s been a long time coming!!!

[Omaha Cowboy]

The new site looks great ...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[Rajdawg]

First post been a lurker for many many mnay years.

New site looks great but check this out

https://www.flyoma.com/omaha-airport-au ... t-program/

1) Using a design-build process

2) Having a industry day about the construction of new terminals this june

I am willing to place a wager that there will be some great info revealed at that meeting. Also means the terminal expansion is coming quickly

[Rajdawg]

First post been a lurker for many many mnay years.

New site looks great but check this out

https://www.flyoma.com/omaha-airport-au ... t-program/

1) Using a design-build process

2) Having a industry day about the construction of new terminals this june

I am willing to place a wager that there will be some great info revealed at that meeting. Also means the terminal expansion is coming quickly