METRO (Formerly Metro Area Transit - MAT)

[Busguy2010]

If I can get the old system map off of my old computer, I share it here. It'll probably be a gem of Omaha transit history some day, because it is a map of the system before Omaha really exploded (I think it is from 1995). You'll see that at that time, they really did have great coverage of all of what Omaha was at that time. Since then, northwest Omaha exploded, west of 156th exploded, and Sarpy County exploded. Those areas are all outside of the practical reach of a bus, which is why we have to get creative if we ever hope to have a system that serves all of the Omaha area. Talks of a regional transit autority and implementation of ORBT are steps in the right direction, but we really do need to be looking at rail transit options; which is the next logical step. I could see us seriously exploring light rail and commuter rail options in about 15 to 20 years. We're going to find out there really are no other options. We either keep the system we have (where you have the bus system and the people that are willing to sacrifice to use it vs. a growing car culture) or we build those other options.

[ita]

If I can get the old system map off of my old computer, I share it here. It'll probably be a gem of Omaha transit history some day, because it is a map of the system before Omaha really exploded (I think it is from 1995). You'll see that at that time, they really did have great coverage of all of what Omaha was at that time. Since then, northwest Omaha exploded, west of 156th exploded, and Sarpy County exploded. Those areas are all outside of the practical reach of a bus, which is why we have to get creative if we ever hope to have a system that serves all of the Omaha area. Talks of a regional transit autority and implementation of ORBT are steps in the right direction, but we really do need to be looking at rail transit options; which is the next logical step. I could see us seriously exploring light rail and commuter rail options in about 15 to 20 years. We're going to find out there really are no other options. We either keep the system we have (where you have the bus system and the people that are willing to sacrifice to use it vs. a growing car culture) or we build those other options.

I would love to see that map. I appreciate your insights concerning how best to serve West O and other parts of suburban Omaha via public transit. How would you have a light rail system run? Where I think part of the problem of planning is we do not have a true CBD. There are several areas now where employers are concentrated. The nice thing is many are situated right off of or near Dodge. I don't know enough about mass transit planning, though, so maybe that isn't really an issue.

[ScrattyB]

There's many options and anybody's proposal is as good as the next person's. Studies would need to be done and eventually a committee picks the best option or we vote on the best option.

For me I'd like to just see it go down Dodge street, either under it, over it, or a combination. Have the end of the line at 150th or 170th.

[Busguy2010]

I would love to see that map. I appreciate your insights concerning how best to serve West O and other parts of suburban Omaha via public transit. How would you have a light rail system run? Where I think part of the problem of planning is we do not have a true CBD. There are several areas now where employers are concentrated. The nice thing is many are situated right off of or near Dodge. I don't know enough about mass transit planning, though, so maybe that isn't really an issue.

If you go here: https://eomahaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19123 You'll see my plan and the thought process behind it.

I'll try and post the old map over the next couple days (i still never figured out how to embed a picture in my post) We'll see how it goes. I'm really glad I was able to find it on my computer that I hadn't used in at least 10 years. Brings back a lot of memories of riding around as a kid. The system seems so different now, and much more efficient than it was, despite not servicing the newer areas of town.

[Busguy2010]

I guess this the only way I'll be able to figure it out. Hopefully it is good quality.

[Coyote]

image.png

[ita]

I would love to see that map. I appreciate your insights concerning how best to serve West O and other parts of suburban Omaha via public transit. How would you have a light rail system run? Where I think part of the problem of planning is we do not have a true CBD. There are several areas now where employers are concentrated. The nice thing is many are situated right off of or near Dodge. I don't know enough about mass transit planning, though, so maybe that isn't really an issue.

If you go here: https://eomahaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19123 You'll see my plan and the thought process behind it.

I'll try and post the old map over the next couple days (i still never figured out how to embed a picture in my post) We'll see how it goes. I'm really glad I was able to find it on my computer that I hadn't used in at least 10 years. Brings back a lot of memories of riding around as a kid. The system seems so different now, and much more efficient than it was, despite not servicing the newer areas of town.

Thanks for the old MAT route map (and to Coyote for embedding it). The current system is definitely more efficient, though inadequate in several areas.

I remember that thread of your suggested mass transit plan and enjoyed reading the discussion and dreaming of what that would all look like. I reviewed the white paper released in connection to the Heartland 2050 Close the Gap initiative, which was release in July 2018. I forgot that they too had a proposed mass transit system, including enhanced bus routes, LRT, steetcar, and the anticipated BRT. I thought the dual usage of some of the same routes in their plan for LRT and streetcar was interesting. Additionally, their test rout for LRT is West Center. I know this would connect Downtown to Oak View Mall, cutting through Saddle Creek. Any thoughts on that route? You mentioned that LRT can be very loud, however, it seems that this would be non-elevated since it would utilize the proposed streetcar route from downtown and midtown before it hits Saddle Creek. Would a street level LRT be any quieter?

For quick reference, here's the white paper:

http://heartland2050.org/wp-content/upl ... .16.18.pdf

[Busguy2010]

I would love to see that map. I appreciate your insights concerning how best to serve West O and other parts of suburban Omaha via public transit. How would you have a light rail system run? Where I think part of the problem of planning is we do not have a true CBD. There are several areas now where employers are concentrated. The nice thing is many are situated right off of or near Dodge. I don't know enough about mass transit planning, though, so maybe that isn't really an issue.

If you go here: https://eomahaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19123 You'll see my plan and the thought process behind it.

I'll try and post the old map over the next couple days (i still never figured out how to embed a picture in my post) We'll see how it goes. I'm really glad I was able to find it on my computer that I hadn't used in at least 10 years. Brings back a lot of memories of riding around as a kid. The system seems so different now, and much more efficient than it was, despite not servicing the newer areas of town.

Thanks for the old MAT route map (and to Coyote for embedding it). The current system is definitely more efficient, though inadequate in several areas.

I remember that thread of your suggested mass transit plan and enjoyed reading the discussion and dreaming of what that would all look like. I reviewed the white paper released in connection to the Heartland 2050 Close the Gap initiative, which was release in July 2018. I forgot that they too had a proposed mass transit system, including enhanced bus routes, LRT, steetcar, and the anticipated BRT. I thought the dual usage of some of the same routes in their plan for LRT and streetcar was interesting. Additionally, their test rout for LRT is West Center. I know this would connect Downtown to Oak View Mall, cutting through Saddle Creek. Any thoughts on that route? You mentioned that LRT can be very loud, however, it seems that this would be non-elevated since it would utilize the proposed streetcar route from downtown and midtown before it hits Saddle Creek. Would a street level LRT be any quieter?

For quick reference, here's the white paper:

http://heartland2050.org/wp-content/upl ... .16.18.pdf

I dont like their use of the terms streetcar/rapid streetcar/light rail, as if they are the same thing. I think, if we build the Farnam streetcar, it would be a big mistake to assume we could just add extensions onto it and call it good. As I've tried to drive home in the past, streetcar and LRT are two totally different modes of transportation.

Streetcars run in mixed traffic and make stops every few blocks. LRT should absolutely be grade separated with very limited interaction with mixed traffic. Grade separation allows a light rail vehicle to go fast, as it doesnt have to slow down for traffic.

As to that route specifically, theres physically no room to have separated tracks anywhere east of Center and I-680. So imagine you're crawling along in mixed traffic from there all the way downtown. So what's the point of having a LRT portion west of there. Think about it, you would be crushing along from Lakeside to I-680, would take about 15 minutes, then you enter the mixed traffic portion at I-680 and you're stuck. You're not getting downtown any faster than a regular bus, probably slower at that. Takes the bus about 40 minutes from that point.

Even if you make it a "rapid streetcar" and take out a number of stops, it's not going to go any faster than about 35 mph and this doesnt solve the issue of moving masses of people in an efficient manner.

That whole route just makes no sense.

As to noise, the sound a light rail vehicle makes comes from the wheels passing over the rails. Once they get up to a certain speed, they start to make that distinct sound. It's hard to describe. Well anyway, they make that noise when they get going fast (which is the point of LRT). So it's simple, LRT and the intimate environment that suits streetcar routes are just plain not practical to mix.

If you look at my plan, it is situated along major transportarion/industrial corridors that already experience a level of noise pollution, that those sounds would probably effectively drown each other out. There is the short portion that runs along 13th and Capitol, however I envision we would take out two lanes of regular traffic and dedicate them to only LRT traffic. The vehicles would only go 25 during that short portion, so noise wouldn't be an issue.

[ita]

I would love to see that map. I appreciate your insights concerning how best to serve West O and other parts of suburban Omaha via public transit. How would you have a light rail system run? Where I think part of the problem of planning is we do not have a true CBD. There are several areas now where employers are concentrated. The nice thing is many are situated right off of or near Dodge. I don't know enough about mass transit planning, though, so maybe that isn't really an issue.

If you go here: https://eomahaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19123 You'll see my plan and the thought process behind it.

I'll try and post the old map over the next couple days (i still never figured out how to embed a picture in my post) We'll see how it goes. I'm really glad I was able to find it on my computer that I hadn't used in at least 10 years. Brings back a lot of memories of riding around as a kid. The system seems so different now, and much more efficient than it was, despite not servicing the newer areas of town.

Thanks for the old MAT route map (and to Coyote for embedding it). The current system is definitely more efficient, though inadequate in several areas.

I remember that thread of your suggested mass transit plan and enjoyed reading the discussion and dreaming of what that would all look like. I reviewed the white paper released in connection to the Heartland 2050 Close the Gap initiative, which was release in July 2018. I forgot that they too had a proposed mass transit system, including enhanced bus routes, LRT, steetcar, and the anticipated BRT. I thought the dual usage of some of the same routes in their plan for LRT and streetcar was interesting. Additionally, their test rout for LRT is West Center. I know this would connect Downtown to Oak View Mall, cutting through Saddle Creek. Any thoughts on that route? You mentioned that LRT can be very loud, however, it seems that this would be non-elevated since it would utilize the proposed streetcar route from downtown and midtown before it hits Saddle Creek. Would a street level LRT be any quieter?

For quick reference, here's the white paper:

http://heartland2050.org/wp-content/upl ... .16.18.pdf

I dont like their use of the terms streetcar/rapid streetcar/light rail, as if they are the same thing. I think, if we build the Farnam streetcar, it would be a big mistake to assume we could just add extensions onto it and call it good. As I've tried to drive home in the past, streetcar and LRT are two totally different modes of transportation.

Streetcars run in mixed traffic and make stops every few blocks. LRT should absolutely be grade separated with very limited interaction with mixed traffic. Grade separation allows a light rail vehicle to go fast, as it doesnt have to slow down for traffic.

As to that route specifically, theres physically no room to have separated tracks anywhere east of Center and I-680. So imagine you're crawling along in mixed traffic from there all the way downtown. So what's the point of having a LRT portion west of there. Think about it, you would be crushing along from Lakeside to I-680, would take about 15 minutes, then you enter the mixed traffic portion at I-680 and you're stuck. You're not getting downtown any faster than a regular bus, probably slower at that. Takes the bus about 40 minutes from that point.

Even if you make it a "rapid streetcar" and take out a number of stops, it's not going to go any faster than about 35 mph and this doesnt solve the issue of moving masses of people in an efficient manner.

That whole route just makes no sense.

As to noise, the sound a light rail vehicle makes comes from the wheels passing over the rails. Once they get up to a certain speed, they start to make that distinct sound. It's hard to describe. Well anyway, they make that noise when they get going fast (which is the point of LRT). So it's simple, LRT and the intimate environment that suits streetcar routes are just plain not practical to mix.

If you look at my plan, it is situated along major transportarion/industrial corridors that already experience a level of noise pollution, that those sounds would probably effectively drown each other out. There is the short portion that runs along 13th and Capitol, however I envision we would take out two lanes of regular traffic and dedicate them to only LRT traffic. The vehicles would only go 25 during that short portion, so noise wouldn't be an issue.

I agree that those three modes are differentiated. I understand you argument that LRT should be a grade separated, but I imagine MAPA is looking at duel use railways for cost and efficiency sake. Also, I was thinking that the MAX in Portland and TRAX in SLC run at grade at times along with or in the middle of auto traffic. Maybe I am confusing the TRAX with their streetcar, but I remember seeing it run at grade in downtown.

Maybe it's not practical due to noise, but I think east of 680 could accommodate street level LRT. Center is basically a five lane street down to Saddle Creek. MAPA claims that there is a wide ROW. An LRT could take what is essentially medians, dedicated left turn lanes, and a suicide lane without disturbing traffic much. I don't think that many stops are warrantied along center for an LRT and would likely make it ineffective, but I think physically, it could fit. As to whether it would be the best place to test LRT, I don't know. Aksarben continues to grow, some development off Saddle Creek is happening, and there are quite a few apartments near Center west of 680, but it would seem to be primarily one way traffic and center is already serviced by the bus.

Anyway, if a rail project of any sort is announced, there doesn't seem to be any indication that it is on local leader's, or locals for that matter, minds outside of MAPA. I hope I am wrong, but people are so fixated on streets and potholes, that mass transit seems to have taken a back seat again. I am hoping construction of the ORBT stations start soon to bring it back to the public's conscience.

[Busguy2010]

I agree that those three modes are differentiated. I understand you argument that LRT should be a grade separated, but I imagine MAPA is looking at duel use railways for cost and efficiency sake. Also, I was thinking that the MAX in Portland and TRAX in SLC run at grade at times along with or in the middle of auto traffic. Maybe I am confusing the TRAX with their streetcar, but I remember seeing it run at grade in downtown.

Maybe it's not practical due to noise, but I think east of 680 could accommodate street level LRT. Center is basically a five lane street down to Saddle Creek. MAPA claims that there is a wide ROW. An LRT could take what is essentially medians, dedicated left turn lanes, and a suicide lane without disturbing traffic much. I don't think that many stops are warrantied along center for an LRT and would likely make it ineffective, but I think physically, it could fit. As to whether it would be the best place to test LRT, I don't know. Aksarben continues to grow, some development off Saddle Creek is happening, and there are quite a few apartments near Center west of 680, but it would seem to be primarily one way traffic and center is already serviced by the bus.

Anyway, if a rail project of any sort is announced, there doesn't seem to be any indication that it is on local leader's, or locals for that matter, minds outside of MAPA. I hope I am wrong, but people are so fixated on streets and potholes, that mass transit seems to have taken a back seat again. I am hoping construction of the ORBT stations start soon to bring it back to the public's conscience.

There are several examples of light rail in the US that employ a "street alignment". Phoenix, Houston, Seattle, Minneapols... Haven't had the chance to look at Portland. Not to say those cities did it wrong - because people ride those routes - but in those cases, it appears the LRT routes were developed to replace over-capacity bus routes (a problem that the 15 bus route isn't close to having), rather than compete with automobile traffic. The one city that has done it best, Denver, only uses street alignment for a short portion Downtown, which is at the end of the route. That is okay and even desirable, because it has no affect on the efficiency of the route, and fits the intimate environment of Downtown (at slow speeds)

Those routes that use the street alignment (in between lanes of traffic, or off to the side of lanes of traffic) inherently can't achieve light rail speeds of 55 mph simply because of their increased interaction with regular traffic. These alignments allow dangerous left turns and crossings over tracks at frequent intervals, and as a result, they just aren't allowed to go as fast. And so my point is, if you can't travel faster than vehicle traffic, what is the point of spending all that money? Like I said above, street aligned LRT seems to more so happen as a solution to over-capicity bus routes.

Again, I think physically there isn't adequate room for a street aligned route. Center is 5 lanes wide. Light rail tracks need more clearance than two lanes provide, in addition to even more room required for stations. This would essentially require reducing Center to at least one lane in each direction with a turn lane, and more likely one lane in each direction, with only occasional turn lanes at big intersections. I don't see that being accepted at all, especially along the portion between 72nd and I-680. On top of all that, Saddle Creek is only 4 lanes, so mixed traffic alignment would really be the only option there, making the whole route less efficient. I just don't see that route as a realistic option and I think if the idea were explored further these inadequacies would be identified fairly soon in the process.

[Omahacritic]

Buggy, I read your plan. Lots of thought of n it. I would not seek to argue with you about viability of different Mass Transit systems.
What I think you should consider ... transportation Hubs. Street cars, rail and bus hook into one station. Would make East/West transit easier. Crossroads area fits the bill. With some smaller ones at end of a few spokes. Really radical ... what if Mutual of Omaha moved their HQ building?

Some areas do not have to remain above grade. They can be trenched or elevated in places. Busses and street cars can handle this. Stops too can also be elevated.

[Coyote]

Metro transit's ORBT stations begin construction mid-August

[Busguy2010]

Usually this would include tearing up the road and installing a thicker concrete pad where the buses will stop.

Also sounds like whatever curb work and sidewalk work that needs to be done. For 26 stations, looks like there should be quite a bit of a activity along dodge in the coming months.

[ita]

I am ecstatic to hear that construction is starting soon.

It's kind of sad to think about how ORBT is our region's biggest investment for mass transit at $35 million, while the next few years the City is spending upwards of $200 million for road diets and improvements. I know the City needs to take care of roads, but the region, state and local municipalities need to be willing to spend more money for mass transit. I want to believe, that despite the naysayers, ORBT will show that there is a demand for mass transit in the Metro and how it can positively affect livability here, at near Dodge.

[ScrattyB]

It's kind of sad to think about how ORBT is our region's biggest investment for mass transit at $35 million,

That just depends on your definition of the region. Kansas City's street car was over $100 million for 2.2 miles. I would absolutely say that they are within our region.

June 2019 had 238,000 riders.

[ita]

It's kind of sad to think about how ORBT is our region's biggest investment for mass transit at $35 million,

That just depends on your definition of the region. Kansas City's street car was over $100 million for 2.2 miles. I would absolutely say that they are within our region.

June 2019 had 238,000 riders.

I took that from articles and leaders. I am guessing they are saying it is the biggest investment for mass transit in the Omaha-Lincoln region.

[ricko]

ORBT aside, I'm surprised that MAT doesn't have a downtown circulator (or maybe it does and I just don't know about it) that basically circles the business district from the Old Market to Creighton. Considering the price of parking downtown these days, I'd much rather hop on a bus at the Homewood Suites (where I stayed recently---great property, BTW--I thought the rooms were nicer than Hilton's) for a trip to the OM or downtown for dinner, than drive the rental car and pay for parking. Plus I could have more than one glass of wine/beer/Manhattan. It'd be worth a buck for the trip. I'd also like to see MAT Airport to Downtown service on busses that accommodate luggage next to the passenger seats (DCA has them), hitting the major hotel areas.

[Louie]

ORBT aside, I'm surprised that MAT doesn't have a downtown circulator (or maybe it does and I just don't know about it) that basically circles the business district from the Old Market to Creighton. Considering the price of parking downtown these days, I'd much rather hop on a bus at the Homewood Suites (where I stayed recently---great property, BTW--I thought the rooms were nicer than Hilton's) for a trip to the OM or downtown for dinner, than drive the rental car and pay for parking. Plus I could have more than one glass of wine/beer/Manhattan. It'd be worth a buck for the trip. I'd also like to see MAT Airport to Downtown service on busses that accommodate luggage next to the passenger seats (DCA has them), hitting the major hotel areas.

1000%

[nebraska]

http://www.ometro.com/index.php/route/green/

Downtown's circulator is the Green Route. It serves the core business district and parking lots, and it 25¢ during weekday rush hours only.

I'm dying out here for a bus to the airport, but it only runs 3 hours in the morning and 3 in the afternoon during weekdays. Well, I catch 5 or 6am flights and usually come back 7-10pm on Sunday nights. And Uber is minimum $15 anymore.

[Louie]

The DT circulator should dip a few blocks further south, though.

[ScrattyB]

I'm dying out here for a bus to the airport, but it only runs 3 hours in the morning and 3 in the afternoon during weekdays. Well, I catch 5 or 6am flights and usually come back 7-10pm on Sunday nights. And Uber is minimum $15 anymore.

No kidding.
I'd be okay with one of those MAT shuttle busses, even if it just ran back and forth between the airport and the Old Market, but running for 18 hours per day.

Maybe Spearmint Rhino could be talked into running this route.

[Busguy2010]

ORBT aside, I'm surprised that MAT doesn't have a downtown circulator (or maybe it does and I just don't know about it) that basically circles the business district from the Old Market to Creighton. Considering the price of parking downtown these days, I'd much rather hop on a bus at the Homewood Suites (where I stayed recently---great property, BTW--I thought the rooms were nicer than Hilton's) for a trip to the OM or downtown for dinner, than drive the rental car and pay for parking. Plus I could have more than one glass of wine/beer/Manhattan. It'd be worth a buck for the trip. I'd also like to see MAT Airport to Downtown service on busses that accommodate luggage next to the passenger seats (DCA has them), hitting the major hotel areas.

Sometime around 2003, MAT launched their bold new downtown circulator routes. I think there was 5 different routes. It was fairly comprehensive, but nobody rode them. After about 4 years they were all gone, except the green route, who's single purpose is to connect First National employees from their parking lots up in north downtown, to the building. I'm fairly certain First National pays something for it.

I'd be eager to see if Metro took the 16 and ran it between the airport and downtown, how successful (or not) it would be. Would people be willing to take ORBT then... get off the bus and transfer to the 16. Being that short of a route, they could run one bus back and forth, leaving downtown and the airport every 40 minutes. As far as I can tell, the current purpose of the 16 is to serve airport employees.

[Busguy2010]

The DT circulator should dip a few blocks further south, though.

It used to go to Farnam, but only First National employees were riding the green, so they took that out.

[buildomaha]

So in conclusion of all of these ideas: Omaha still needs to step up its game and actually invest in public transport. It’s honestly so disappointing that this is not anyone’s priority in this city.
The roads can only handle so many vehicles and Omaha is reaching a point where we’re experiencing a decent increase in traffic over the past decade and we have done little to combat that on the road expansion side (which is SO costly and just won’t work in east O) or public transport explanation. It’s going to come to a breaking point where Omaha certainly will become the LA of the Midwest when it comes to trying to get around the city. It’s honestly surprising how long you could sit in traffic during rush hour in a city as small as Omaha.
Omaha even has a higher population density than a lot of our peer cities, which sets us up BETTER for public transport (not to mention our perfectly positioned urban hubs all decently close to Dodge, and the fact the the majority of the jobs in the city are clustered in Dodge all the way from downtown out to 204th) and yet we still spend a fraction of what even DSM invests.
Even ORBT has taken wayyy to long to implement and at this point it is not even enough. The line will need to be extended out to village point as soon as possible (although I don’t know how that works with a brt running on a freeway?) to be even remotely adequate. Why would the biggest investment in transportation in the city extend to only...the center of the city at its farthest?
Not to mention the socioeconomic mobility that affordable and effective public transportation bring, and how removing the stigma that still exists for it in the city will allow for even more investment in good transport. This will then lead to more investment in dense, transport-oriented development and...wait for it...*trendy, cool, inclusive communities* that these young educated workers we seem to be lacking so heavily will want to live in!
Omaha is on a streak of great investments and great things happening, but the inactivity on transportation really jumps out when looking at the city.

[ita]

So in conclusion of all of these ideas: Omaha still needs to step up its game and actually invest in public transport. It’s honestly so disappointing that this is not anyone’s priority in this city.
The roads can only handle so many vehicles and Omaha is reaching a point where we’re experiencing a decent increase in traffic over the past decade and we have done little to combat that on the road expansion side (which is SO costly and just won’t work in east O) or public transport explanation. It’s going to come to a breaking point where Omaha certainly will become the LA of the Midwest when it comes to trying to get around the city. It’s honestly surprising how long you could sit in traffic during rush hour in a city as small as Omaha.
Omaha even has a higher population density than a lot of our peer cities, which sets us up BETTER for public transport (not to mention our perfectly positioned urban hubs all decently close to Dodge, and the fact the the majority of the jobs in the city are clustered in Dodge all the way from downtown out to 204th) and yet we still spend a fraction of what even DSM invests.
Even ORBT has taken wayyy to long to implement and at this point it is not even enough. The line will need to be extended out to village point as soon as possible (although I don’t know how that works with a brt running on a freeway?) to be even remotely adequate. Why would the biggest investment in transportation in the city extend to only...the center of the city at its farthest?
Not to mention the socioeconomic mobility that affordable and effective public transportation bring, and how removing the stigma that still exists for it in the city will allow for even more investment in good transport. This will then lead to more investment in dense, transport-oriented development and...wait for it...*trendy, cool, inclusive communities* that these young educated workers we seem to be lacking so heavily will want to live in!
Omaha is on a streak of great investments and great things happening, but the inactivity on transportation really jumps out when looking at the city.

Yes, wholeheartedly agree. Unfortunately, I am losing hope that additional investment and development for mass transit, at least in the form we are all hoping, will be made.

[Busguy2010]

So in conclusion of all of these ideas: Omaha still needs to step up its game and actually invest in public transport. It’s honestly so disappointing that this is not anyone’s priority in this city.
The roads can only handle so many vehicles and Omaha is reaching a point where we’re experiencing a decent increase in traffic over the past decade and we have done little to combat that on the road expansion side (which is SO costly and just won’t work in east O) or public transport explanation. It’s going to come to a breaking point where Omaha certainly will become the LA of the Midwest when it comes to trying to get around the city. It’s honestly surprising how long you could sit in traffic during rush hour in a city as small as Omaha.
Omaha even has a higher population density than a lot of our peer cities, which sets us up BETTER for public transport (not to mention our perfectly positioned urban hubs all decently close to Dodge, and the fact the the majority of the jobs in the city are clustered in Dodge all the way from downtown out to 204th) and yet we still spend a fraction of what even DSM invests.
Even ORBT has taken wayyy to long to implement and at this point it is not even enough. The line will need to be extended out to village point as soon as possible (although I don’t know how that works with a brt running on a freeway?) to be even remotely adequate. Why would the biggest investment in transportation in the city extend to only...the center of the city at its farthest?
Not to mention the socioeconomic mobility that affordable and effective public transportation bring, and how removing the stigma that still exists for it in the city will allow for even more investment in good transport. This will then lead to more investment in dense, transport-oriented development and...wait for it...*trendy, cool, inclusive communities* that these young educated workers we seem to be lacking so heavily will want to live in!
Omaha is on a streak of great investments and great things happening, but the inactivity on transportation really jumps out when looking at the city.

ORBT is the beginning. I know, I agree, its about 15 years late. But we have to appreciate it as the start of something that could finally change the tide in our public transportation efforts.

I personally hope ORBT doesn't get extended farther west, because it would be totally inadequate. ORBT is the start, rail transit should be the finish. ORBT shouldn't be looked at as the end-all, be-all. Anyway, the reason ORBT shouldn't be extended farther west is because tire revolutions vs potential riders has to be drastically lower out there, than within I-680, based totally on how many people live or work within a quarter mile (I'd even raise you to a half mile out there) of a stop.

The big difference between ORBT and potential rail transit routes, is the rail transit decidedly will promote way more density around its own stops, furthering it's own efficiency and prosperity.

Big question is "Why doesn't Omaha spend money on public transportation?" At one point, during the lifetime of many still-living people, Omaha had one of the most comprehensive transportation systems in America. I wonder why its so difficult to gravitate back toward that.

[ita]

ORBT is the beginning. I know, I agree, its about 15 years late. But we have to appreciate it as the start of something that could finally change the tide in our public transportation efforts.

I personally hope ORBT doesn't get extended farther west, because it would be totally inadequate. ORBT is the start, rail transit should be the finish. ORBT shouldn't be looked at as the end-all, be-all. Anyway, the reason ORBT shouldn't be extended farther west is because tire revolutions vs potential riders has to be drastically lower out there, than within I-680, based totally on how many people live or work within a quarter mile (I'd even raise you to a half mile out there) of a stop.

The big difference between ORBT and potential rail transit routes, is the rail transit decidedly will promote way more density around its own stops, furthering it's own efficiency and prosperity.

Big question is "Why doesn't Omaha spend money on public transportation?" At one point, during the lifetime of many still-living people, Omaha had one of the most comprehensive transportation systems in America. I wonder why its so difficult to gravitate back toward that.

I really hope you are right. I ranted up and down about this in the thread I started about Blueprint Nebraska's report, but rail doesn't seem to be in the mindset of state and some local leaders. I know MAPA is promoting mass transit by some sort of rail, but it seems like, based on the report, that the people in a position to make something happen, do not want to spend money in mass transit consisting of rail. They are looking at making Omaha cutting edge for sake of being cutting edge (for a low cost, of course) and wanting to implement autonomous vehicles in the next decade.

[Omahacritic]

What seems to be lost in this discussion is the future of both individual and mass transit.

Self driving cars and buses? Maybe.
Electric buses . (Faster acceleration)
Other propulsion systems coming too!

How much should Omaha invest in Mass transit in light of the near future ?

Getting West Omaha residents to airport ... how much did they spend on that Parking Garage? Too late.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

What seems to be lost in this discussion is the future of both individual and mass transit.

Self driving cars and buses? Maybe.
Electric buses . (Faster acceleration)
Other propulsion systems coming too!

How much should Omaha invest in Mass transit in light of the near future ?

Getting West Omaha residents to airport ... how much did they spend on that Parking Garage? Too late.

I think that question can lead to a viscous cycle. There will always be a new technology being developed. If we always stop and ask, "well what about the new technology they're developing, maybe we should wait for that," then waiting is what we'll always do. No one can predict what future tech is going to be a winner and what won't. With regard to large, expensive mass transit systems, it's safer for Omaha to invest in something proven now with with an ability to adapt to new tech later designed into it. For example, if Omaha were to decide to build a commuter rail from Elkhorn to downtown, they should perhaps include some thought for how it could later be converted to a hyperloop system by trying to keep curves in the routes to a minimum or ensuring the right-of-way is wide enough to build the necessary tubes on.

I think driverless cars are farther off as a viable means of transportation than we're led to believe - keyword being viable. In their current form, the amount of problems they solve is balanced by new problems they create.

[Omahacritic]

True, I was saying stop building. But yes, start planning with a Right of Way, and such. Building plans need to allow for transit.

As example, the allow the monstrosity at 84th and West Dodge to be built right up to street level. Is there Any allowance for a transit stop within the structure?
Why isn’t UNO required to contribute more land for transit?

The dream list goes on!

[Busguy2010]

True, I was saying stop building. But yes, start planning with a Right of Way, and such. Building plans need to allow for transit.

As example, the allow the monstrosity at 84th and West Dodge to be built right up to street level. Is there Any allowance for a transit stop within the structure?
Why isn’t UNO required to contribute more land for transit?

The dream list goes on!

They did (still do? Maybe still will?) have a cutout on eastbound West Dodge near the entrance to the parking garage for buses to dive into and stop. It was/is like the cutout on eastbound Dodge at 62nd. Not that that's a useful form of transit infrastructure. Cutouts are actually bad for transit. But they are an indication that transit was "thought about". Again, I dont know what the plan is for the eastbound 84th street ORBT stop. But my assumption is it would still be on the SE corner of 84th and West Dodge, west of the new building... Funny that you inadvertently mentioned the locations of the only two transit cutouts in Omaha.

I noticed my first indicator of ORBT construction yesterday. Not much, but its there. The westbound NE 84th and West Dodge bus stop was physically relocated from the corner, to way back, maybe 200 feet east. You'll notice the bus stop sign kinda sitting out in the open near the SE corner of the Pinnacle Bank building. I briefly wondered why they moved it, then realized today it was for ORBT construction.

[Omahacritic]

On Saturday the north side of Dodge in front of UNO was closed for a construction site.. one full lane. I presume it is for ORBT.

I guess the thing about the cutouts ... they always look to be an afterthought, not a strategic plan. And can only presume 84th Dodge will be the same . I know, I’m expecting the worst.

[Louie]

On Saturday the north side of Dodge in front of UNO was closed for a construction site.. one full lane. I presume it is for ORBT.

I guess the thing about the cutouts ... they always look to be an afterthought, not a strategic plan. And can only presume 84th Dodge will be the same . I know, I’m expecting the worst.

I thought that looked more like sewer work, but I could be wrong.

[Omahacritic]

Or me. At 60 mph I didn’t look too closely. I also saw lighter work on South side.

[ita]

I think driverless cars are farther off as a viable means of transportation than we're led to believe - keyword being viable. In their current form, the amount of problems they solve is balanced by new problems they create.

I agree with this point. I don't think we can have a fully integrated autonomous vehicles where not everyone is riding one without major restructuring of our road and traffic infrastructure, let alone that the vehicle technology is still a couple years away, per recent reports.

I think it is crazy how much private capital is spent in companies that are "disrupting" industries and services. I just read today that Uber lost another $5 billion. Jalopnik put together a list of some public transit rail projects that cost less than what Uber lost last quarter.

https://jalopnik.com/public-transit-pro ... 1837080980

[ita]

On Saturday the north side of Dodge in front of UNO was closed for a construction site.. one full lane. I presume it is for ORBT.

I guess the thing about the cutouts ... they always look to be an afterthought, not a strategic plan. And can only presume 84th Dodge will be the same . I know, I’m expecting the worst.

I thought that looked more like sewer work, but I could be wrong.

You're probably right. Per the ORBT website, construction starts at Westroads and will move east.

[Omahacritic]

I think driverless cars are farther off as a viable means of transportation than we're led to believe - keyword being viable. In their current form, the amount of problems they solve is balanced by new problems they create.

I agree with this point. I don't think we can have a fully integrated autonomous vehicles where not everyone is riding one without major restructuring of our road and traffic infrastructure, let alone that the vehicle technology is still a couple years away, per recent reports.

I think it is crazy how much private capital is spent in companies that are "disrupting" industries and services. I just read today that Uber lost another $5 billion. Jalopnik put together a list of some public transit rail projects that cost less than what Uber lost last quarter.

https://jalopnik.com/public-transit-pro ... 1837080980

So far as every day cars, they are decade or more away. Thankfully!

But as part of mobility solutions, they will be here sooner. Mass transit mostly needs solutions for first mile and last mile transit. Autonomous mini-buses/vans around defined routes might fill that need.

[Coyote]

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[ita]

In the ConnectGo thread, there was some talk about the current bus service in the city. There are positive aspects to its current configuration, though there are routes that could be created or tweaked to serve more people. I was wondering what routes you all think can be improved or added to the bus system?

I have one suggestion based on where I work. North Business Park is a fairly good sized business park for Omaha, particularly in Northwest Omaha. In my office, many of our employees, probably 80%, are 35 and younger and single or have an SO, but doesn't have kids. Additionally, many live in Urban Omaha. I am sure other offices here, particularly Fusion Medical, have similar demographics. In any case, I know a bus comes through here, so I checked the route, the 98. I don't understand the timing for the route. There are two buses in the morning coming from East Omaha. They both arrive at North Park before 7 AM, which is fine. However, I think most if not all the offices open at 8 AM. I am sure they could capture more people on the morning route if they just ran one that would get here closer to 8 AM or even sometime thereafter.

[Busguy2010]

In any case, I know a bus comes through here, so I checked the route, the 98. I don't understand the timing for the route.

Here is the history of the 98, as I know it. If you look back at the 1995 system map, you see that the 98 terminated in Maplewood Hills. The purpose of the route is to take people from Maplewood Hills to Downtown and back. They have to bring a bus out there in the AM regardless. North Park was built during the realization of the Job Access Reverse Commute, so they figured "Instead of driving an empty bus out to pick up the riders in Maplewood Hills, lets make the route more useful by allowing people in east Omaha to ride this bus to North Park, then make a loop around to pick up our usual Maplewood Hills riders". So, the main objective is still to serve those riders that get on the bus on 99th street, Terrace Dr, Maplewood blvd and the "Bag N'Save Park & Ride lot". The AM west trips are really an afterthought. Funny thing is, Metro was going to get rid of Route 98 when they overhauled the system in 2015, but there was enough protest from the relatively few riders that they kept it.

Originally, the 14, then later the 22 served North Park all day and on Saturdays. When ORBT is in place, I could see potential for the 22 (and many other routes) to be put back into service.

You should make a suggestion (if you haven't already) here: http://www.ometro.com/index.php/contact/comment-form/