Omaha to Lincoln Railway

OmahaFan · Post by **OmahaFan** » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:51 pm

State Senator introducing a bill to study it. Any idea if this will take off?

buildomaha · Post by **buildomaha** » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:03 pm

I guarantee any chance this has in the Legislature will be torn to pieces by the rural senators.

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:52 pm

This will unfortunately fail.

Busguy2010 · Post by **Busguy2010** » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:36 pm

Can anyone provide more details?

ita · Post by **ita** » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:13 pm

Busguy2010 wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:36 pm Can anyone provide more details?

It's introduced by Senator Morfeld of Lincoln as LB 979. Not much so far, aside from its seeking state funds for a feasibility study to be done by NDOT. It would serve as an update to the 2003 study, that is still up on NDOT's site somewhere. No details on how much it would cost to fund the study.

Trips · Post by **Trips** » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:31 pm

This is all the bill says

A BILL FOR AN ACT relating to appropriations; to appropriate funds to the
Department of Transportation for a high-speed commuter rail service study and report.
Be it enacted by the people of the State of Nebraska,

Section 1. There is hereby appropriated $X,XXX from the General
Fund for FY2020-21, to Agency 27, for Program 305, to aid in conducting a
feasibility study for high-speed commuter rail service between Omaha and
Lincoln. Such study shall include cost estimates, timelines, and economic
impacts for the creation of such service. The Department of
Transportation shall issue a report electronically to the Clerk of the
Legislature on or before December 1, 2020, describing the results of such study.

ita · Post by **ita** » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:48 pm

I was able to find the 2003 NDOT study referred to in the article:

https://dot.nebraska.gov/media/7028/ntrac-final.pdf

The total cost does not seem like too much, but based on the ridership, it would cost a few million to subsidize. I think one of the biggest hindrances identified in this study is that base on the cost per new rider, a rail project between Omaha and Lincoln, as envisioned by this study, would not qualify for federal funding per FTA guidelines (see page 6-7). Unless the FTA guidelines have changed since then, I don't think a project using today's numbers would qualify for federal funding, meaning the state would take the brunt of the cost.

OmahaOmaha · Post by **OmahaOmaha** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:42 pm

If this Omaha to Lincoln railway ever happens, it will be after many, many more costly studies will be done....studies that will over inflate ridership to get this approved, studies that will greatly under-estimate the cost to build, so taxpayers will be on the hook to spend millions more after construction has already started, studies that will under-estimate the cost of ongoing maintenance and security. The railway will never be profitable and will be taxpayer-funded forever. It's so predictable.

If we're going to waste money, why don't we just give Steve Minard a couple hundred million dollars in incentive money to build the world's tallest, longest, fastest roller coaster connecting the two cities. We could have a fun ride taking enclosed, heated and cooled coaster trains to our destination city, then take unicorns to where we want to go from there.

If this railway is really needed, it should be privately funded with no taxpayer incentives. Personally, I don't know who would take the train. For most people, taking the train isn't going to be a time saver or a money saver. It's just a short drive between the two cities. Taking the train would only make sense if you lived close to the departing station and you needed to go some place close to the destination station...and what's the chance of that happening?

Post by **Brad** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:34 pm

Its too bad they didn't buy existing routes for pennies on the dollar when they were abandoned over the past 50 years...

MoPac Line:
North Omaha, UNMC, Aksarben, Ralston, Springfield, Louisville, Manley, Weeping Water, Wabash, Elmwood, Eagle, Lincoln.

Rock Island Line:
South Omaha, West Bellevue, Papillion, Richfield, South Bend, Murdoch, Alvo, Prairie Home, Lincoln.

ScrattyB · Post by **ScrattyB** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:26 pm

If we go with those 9-12 stops, and stops for 3 minutes at each station, there's a half hour already. So the train will need to reach speeds well in excess of 100 MPH. Then we are going to need elevated lines in certain areas ($$$).

If the train takes longer than an hour, nobody is going to use it.

TitosBuritoBarn · Post by **TitosBuritoBarn** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:18 pm

100 MPH trains don’t necessitate elevated lines. Maybe at particular crossings but not the length of the entire route. Amtrak runs 100 MPH trains in parts of Illinois with no elevated rails.

Marketing and creating benefit over driving will be key here. I’m guessing there will be quite a few more skeptics than just the couple of you who have spoken up so far. There should be solid ridership if there is solid connectivity at stations, trains at least every hour for most of the day, and it can be found cheaper, faster, and/or a better use of time than driving.

OmahaOmaha wrote:The railway will never be profitable and will be taxpayer-funded forever. It's so predictable.

Well, yeah. Very few government run infrastructure operates at a direct profit. Most airports and tollways are about it as far as I can think of. In fact the roads in Nebraska cost more than what the government takes in in both vehicle registrations and gas taxes. Will it lead to higher taxes? Perhaps. Can't say for sure. Will it provide benefit to the region in the form of increased productivity (and therefore increased GDP) and keeping drunk husker fans off the road? I bet so.

OmahaOmaha · Post by **OmahaOmaha** » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:02 am

I agree that if the train takes longer than one hour, nobody is going to use it. If I were to take the train from Omaha to Lincoln, I will first have to arrange for someone to drive me to the train station, I'll have to wait for a bus or taxi to take me to the train station, or I'll have to drive myself to the train station and find somewhere to park when I get there. Then I will have to go through security and wait for my train to depart. Now, I may have to spend an hour or more on the train. When I get to Lincoln, I will have to wait again for a bus or taxi to take me to where I want to go, or I'll have to rent a car. When I'm ready to come back home, if I didn't rent a car, I will again need to wait for a taxi or bus to take me to the train station. I'll then have to go through security and wait again for the train to depart. If trains aren't running often, I may have to wait several hours, Once I'm back in Omaha, I will have to wait again for a bus or taxi to take me home, or I will have to get in my car and drive myself home, which might be on the opposite side of the city. Taking the train just doesn't make sense. It's not going to save me time and it's not going to save me money.

Wrightfan · Post by **Wrightfan** » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:31 pm

OmahaOmaha wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:02 am I agree that if the train takes longer than one hour, nobody is going to use it. If I were to take the train from Omaha to Lincoln, I will first have to arrange for someone to drive me to the train station, I'll have to wait for a bus or taxi to take me to the train station, or I'll have to drive myself to the train station and find somewhere to park when I get there. Then I will have to go through security and wait for my train to depart. Now, I may have to spend an hour or more on the train. When I get to Lincoln, I will have to wait again for a bus or taxi to take me to where I want to go, or I'll have to rent a car. When I'm ready to come back home, if I didn't rent a car, I will again need to wait for a taxi or bus to take me to the train station. I'll then have to go through security and wait again for the train to depart. If trains aren't running often, I may have to wait several hours, Once I'm back in Omaha, I will have to wait again for a bus or taxi to take me home, or I will have to get in my car and drive myself home, which might be on the opposite side of the city. Taking the train just doesn't make sense. It's not going to save me time and it's not going to save me money.

Well, if your hypothetical is going to include the extreme in every sense, then no, it doesn't sound appealing. And, what security? The last time I rode Amtrak (November 2019) there was no security point, no ID to board. Come to think of it, there was no requirement to arrive at the station well in advance of departure, no "buckle up" requirement, and I could get up and down and walk around at will. The food/drink were my decision as to when and what or whether to bring my own or purchase on the train. I could stare out the window or read online news, but I didn't have to pay attention to the "driving".

My point? There are more considerations than just the logistics of accessing the train and the time commitment.

Original · Post by **Original** » Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:41 pm

Omaha to Lincoln railway works as non-stop if the Lincoln end is within walking distance of downtown/Memorial Stadium/Haymarket, and the Omaha side is either in the Old Market area or near AkSarBen. It's not all about Husker Gameday, but I would definitely bet there are lots of people who would ride the train from Omaha to Lincoln for football or basketball, and it would help connect UNO with with UNL.

The feasibility of that is probably low due to geography, accessible rail lines, etc. But I don't see another way to make that route work economically.

OmahaOmaha · Post by **OmahaOmaha** » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:41 pm

Wrightfan wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:31 pm
OmahaOmaha wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:02 am I agree that if the train takes longer than one hour, nobody is going to use it. If I were to take the train from Omaha to Lincoln, I will first have to arrange for someone to drive me to the train station, I'll have to wait for a bus or taxi to take me to the train station, or I'll have to drive myself to the train station and find somewhere to park when I get there. Then I will have to go through security and wait for my train to depart. Now, I may have to spend an hour or more on the train. When I get to Lincoln, I will have to wait again for a bus or taxi to take me to where I want to go, or I'll have to rent a car. When I'm ready to come back home, if I didn't rent a car, I will again need to wait for a taxi or bus to take me to the train station. I'll then have to go through security and wait again for the train to depart. If trains aren't running often, I may have to wait several hours, Once I'm back in Omaha, I will have to wait again for a bus or taxi to take me home, or I will have to get in my car and drive myself home, which might be on the opposite side of the city. Taking the train just doesn't make sense. It's not going to save me time and it's not going to save me money.
Well, if your hypothetical is going to include the extreme in every sense, then no, it doesn't sound appealing. And, what security? The last time I rode Amtrak (November 2019) there was no security point, no ID to board. Come to think of it, there was no requirement to arrive at the station well in advance of departure, no "buckle up" requirement, and I could get up and down and walk around at will. The food/drink were my decision as to when and what or whether to bring my own or purchase on the train. I could stare out the window or read online news, but I didn't have to pay attention to the "driving".

My point? There are more considerations than just the logistics of accessing the train and the time commitment.

Oh, that makes sense. Lets spend millions and millions of dollars so people don't have to pay attention to the driving. While I'm driving my toasty warm car from Omaha directly to my final destination point in Lincoln, you all can enjoy taking the train and have to deal with walking to a bus stop in the snow and ice. Enjoy sitting on that cold bus stop bench hoping those two sketchy looking guys standing next to you don't stab you and rob you. I'll laugh as I drive by. Hopefully my car won't sling any of that dirty slush on you. At least people won't have to pay attention to driving and they'll have more time to read online news about how their taxes are going up again.

TitosBuritoBarn · Post by **TitosBuritoBarn** » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:01 pm

OmahaOmaha wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:41 pm
Wrightfan wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:31 pm
OmahaOmaha wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:02 am I agree that if the train takes longer than one hour, nobody is going to use it. If I were to take the train from Omaha to Lincoln, I will first have to arrange for someone to drive me to the train station, I'll have to wait for a bus or taxi to take me to the train station, or I'll have to drive myself to the train station and find somewhere to park when I get there. Then I will have to go through security and wait for my train to depart. Now, I may have to spend an hour or more on the train. When I get to Lincoln, I will have to wait again for a bus or taxi to take me to where I want to go, or I'll have to rent a car. When I'm ready to come back home, if I didn't rent a car, I will again need to wait for a taxi or bus to take me to the train station. I'll then have to go through security and wait again for the train to depart. If trains aren't running often, I may have to wait several hours, Once I'm back in Omaha, I will have to wait again for a bus or taxi to take me home, or I will have to get in my car and drive myself home, which might be on the opposite side of the city. Taking the train just doesn't make sense. It's not going to save me time and it's not going to save me money.
Well, if your hypothetical is going to include the extreme in every sense, then no, it doesn't sound appealing. And, what security? The last time I rode Amtrak (November 2019) there was no security point, no ID to board. Come to think of it, there was no requirement to arrive at the station well in advance of departure, no "buckle up" requirement, and I could get up and down and walk around at will. The food/drink were my decision as to when and what or whether to bring my own or purchase on the train. I could stare out the window or read online news, but I didn't have to pay attention to the "driving".

My point? There are more considerations than just the logistics of accessing the train and the time commitment.
Oh, that makes sense. Lets spend millions and millions of dollars so people don't have to pay attention to the driving. While I'm driving my toasty warm car from Omaha directly to my final destination point in Lincoln, you all can enjoy taking the train and have to deal with walking to a bus stop in the snow and ice. Enjoy sitting on that cold bus stop bench hoping those two sketchy looking guys standing next to you don't stab you and rob you. I'll laugh as I drive by. Hopefully my car won't sling any of that dirty slush on you. At least people won't have to pay attention to driving and they'll have more time to read online news about how their taxes are going up again.

I doubt you’d need to take a bus to catch the train. It’s likely that most stations will be park-and-ride facilities where you can park your car on-site for the duration of your trip. And because there are no security checkpoints, you really don’t even need to show up more than a few minutes before the train leaves.

This train (which has heat and a/c just like your car) will cater most to those headed near downtown or within walking distance of a station. If you plan on going someplace like Pine Lake Mall where it’s not very walkable and unlikely they’ll locate a station nearby, then by all means drive.

To your first (and last) point, people not paying attention to driving has become a big problem. Among other things, a train would give those who would rather pay attention to their phones a mode of transport where they can do so without risking their lives and the lives of other drivers.

If they’re smart, they’ll include an airport shuttle to Eppley. A lot of Lincolnites come to Omaha for cheap and/or direct flights.

Wrightfan · Post by **Wrightfan** » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:16 pm

OmahaOmaha wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:41 pm
Wrightfan wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:31 pm
OmahaOmaha wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:02 am

My point? There are more considerations than just the logistics of accessing the train and the time commitment.
Oh, that makes sense. Lets spend millions and millions of dollars . . .

Your specific comment, to which I responded, did not include any discussion about the cost to construct and provide such a service. The point I tried to convey is that different people have different perspectives about the perceived degree of efficiency and convenience passenger rail offers to them. Additionally, it is not cold and snowy 12 months out of the year, which seemed to be a big point of contention. Your point of view is your own. Others feel differently.

bigredmed1 · Post by **bigredmed1** » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:17 pm

The rail idea isn’t bad, just limited. The idea that we need to compare its utility to driving or a bus system is completely fair.

Busguy2010 · Post by **Busguy2010** » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:53 pm

The clear, most feasible (minimal infrastructure costs) is to borrow track from BNSF, and we dont even know if that's possible. It would use a plain old diesel train like many other systems. Say it did happen that way, there are some pretty clear locations for stops. Yes, the ones in the 'burbs would have to have park & rides.

Pretty clear the stops would have to be Downtown Lincoln and somewhere on the east fringe of Lincoln. Then there would likely be stops in Gretna, Southport, Ralston and Downtown Omaha.

It would be heated and cooled and would follow a schedule. Those things can go a good 78mph. No it's not going to be convenient for everyone in the rat race, especially if they go 90mph. I think it would be there as an option, especially for people who dont drive/dont want to drive. And no, I dont think it would be a good option if we had to lay track all the way between the cities.

Hypothetically if you live at 84th and O and get on a train at 84th and HWY 6 around 6:40, you could be in a downtown Omaha office in time for work at 9. Its not like they would purposely make it take two hours. If they study it, they'll make it as competitive as possible.

I would think lincoln suburbs to downtown in an hour and some change is totally doable. And to not have to focus on the road for all that time would be worth the extra time every now and then. Not like you'd have to take it every day. I would think driving all that way would get old quick and having the option to take a relaxing train ride would be a nice relief now and then.

bigredmed1 · Post by **bigredmed1** » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:16 pm

The train might work, but a set schedule of busses that would go from fixed locations to fixed locations with park and ride as well as bus connections in the cities would be a lot less expensive and probably more user friendly.

Post by **Brad** » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:18 pm

Busguy2010 wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:53 pm Pretty clear the stops would have to be Downtown Lincoln and somewhere on the east fringe of Lincoln. Then there would likely be stops in Gretna, Southport, Ralston and Downtown Omaha.

Move the eastern fringe of Lincoln to Waverly.
Add a stop in Ashland
Combine the Ralston and LaVista stops.

Wrightfan · Post by **Wrightfan** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:48 am

Brad wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:18 pm
Busguy2010 wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:53 pm Pretty clear the stops would have to be Downtown Lincoln and somewhere on the east fringe of Lincoln. Then there would likely be stops in Gretna, Southport, Ralston and Downtown Omaha.
Move the eastern fringe of Lincoln to Waverly.
Add a stop in Ashland
Combine the Ralston and LaVista stops.

That's too many stops for a short distance like that. Heck, the Chicago to Milwaukee Hiawatha train only has 3 intermediate station stops between the two end-points: north suburban Chicago, Sturtevant, WI, and south suburban Milwaukee. That route is just under 90 miles in distance.

Busguy2010 · Post by **Busguy2010** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:01 am

Wrightfan wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:48 am
Brad wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:18 pm
Busguy2010 wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:53 pm Pretty clear the stops would have to be Downtown Lincoln and somewhere on the east fringe of Lincoln. Then there would likely be stops in Gretna, Southport, Ralston and Downtown Omaha.
Move the eastern fringe of Lincoln to Waverly.
Add a stop in Ashland
Combine the Ralston and LaVista stops.
That's too many stops for a short distance like that. Heck, the Chicago to Milwaukee Hiawatha train only has 3 intermediate station stops between the two end-points: north suburban Chicago, Sturtevant, WI, and south suburban Milwaukee. That route is just under 90 miles in distance.

I'm not familiar with the line you're speaking of, but it doesn't sound like commuter rail if it stops 3 times in 90 miles. Metra, which is definitely a commuter rail service, stops every couple miles, if not more frequently.

I would put an east Lincoln station at 84th & HWY 6 or at the HWY 6 interchange. You make it redundant by having to drive that far out of town just to get on the train. Imagine driving past the interstate entrance to get on the train. Makes the decision to drive a little easier. Plus you want to give it some chance to connect with the bus system.

I'm on the fence about an Ashland station, but if it were my system, I'd put it in just to get the route done. I'm skeptical about the available ridership of the city, but I could foresee enough political backlash to keep the route from happening altogether. No stop in Ashland, no train, probably.

I'd put the Southport stop, and one at 84th and the train tracks for better connectivity to the bus system

You can see my thoughts on commuter rail by selecting the commuter rail layer here:

U R my Helix · Post by **U R my Helix** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:56 am

So if this were ever to happen what would it be called? OLAY is taken and so is OMALiNK . TTOAL is available, train to Omaha and Lincoln. Any others?

Busguy2010 · Post by **Busguy2010** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:25 am

U R my Helix wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:56 am So if this were ever to happen what would it be called? OLAY is taken and so is OMALiNK . TTOAL is available, train to Omaha and Lincoln. Any others?

Probably something lame like MetroLink.

ScrattyB · Post by **ScrattyB** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:05 pm

Busguy2010 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:25 am Probably something lame like HuskerExpress.

Fixed that for you

TitosBuritoBarn · Post by **TitosBuritoBarn** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:39 pm

ScrattyB wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:05 pm
Busguy2010 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:25 am Probably something lame like HuskerExpress.
Fixed that for you

Yeah. Eat it Hawkeyes! Your train name is lame!

buildomaha · Post by **buildomaha** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:41 pm

TitosBuritoBarn wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:39 pm
ScrattyB wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:05 pm
Busguy2010 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:25 am Probably something lame like HuskerExpress.
Fixed that for you
Yeah. Eat it Hawkeyes! Your train name is lame!

They hate us cuz they ain’t us ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

bigredmed1 · Post by **bigredmed1** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:40 pm

To make this halfway functional, you would have to have two stops in Lincoln (one in downtown) and then three in Omaha (one in downtown). You would have to have local bus/cab/uber/lyft support at the various nodes. Stopping in Ashland is kind of nuts given BN's rail orientation relative to all the rest of that town. Also its only 11 miles from Gretna. I would put a stop in DT Omaha, one in LaVista/Portal and one in southern Gretna (by the mall). Then one in Waverly or along 84th and then one downtown in Lincoln.

Another option would be to admit defeat on the "MoPac" trail and reopen the rail link of the MoPac line between downtown Omaha and east Lincoln. True, the 12 people who use that trail will be outraged, but then the 12 people who plan to ride this train can balance the outrage.

daveoma · Post by **daveoma** » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:18 am

Brad wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:34 pm Its too bad they didn't buy existing routes for pennies on the dollar when they were abandoned over the past 50 years...

MoPac Line:
North Omaha, UNMC, Aksarben, Ralston, Springfield, Louisville, Manley, Weeping Water, Wabash, Elmwood, Eagle, Lincoln.

Rock Island Line:
South Omaha, West Bellevue, Papillion, Richfield, South Bend, Murdoch, Alvo, Prairie Home, Lincoln.

I wish there was a map so we could illustrate where these old rail lines used to be.

daveoma · Post by **daveoma** » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:28 am

Original wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:41 pm Omaha to Lincoln railway works as non-stop if the Lincoln end is within walking distance of downtown/Memorial Stadium/Haymarket, and the Omaha side is either in the Old Market area or near AkSarBen. It's not all about Husker Gameday, but I would definitely bet there are lots of people who would ride the train from Omaha to Lincoln for football or basketball, and it would help connect UNO with with UNL.

The feasibility of that is probably low due to geography, accessible rail lines, etc. But I don't see another way to make that route work economically.

I agree. Imagine the foot traffic from Lincoln tourists in the Old Market during the summer festivals. Also if the train continued or if there was an easy transfer to Eppley, then we could gain more airport passengers from Lincoln. I think the increase in tax revenue and attraction to outside developers would be worth the subsidies. I'd much rather subsidize a project like this than a concrete beltway to nowhere.

ScrattyB · Post by **ScrattyB** » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:08 pm

daveoma wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:28 am I think the increase in tax revenue and attraction to outside developers would be worth the subsidies. I'd much rather subsidize a project like this than a concrete beltway to nowhere.

You realize this would be an annual subsidy for the entirety of its operation, right?

TitosBuritoBarn · Post by **TitosBuritoBarn** » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:47 pm

ScrattyB wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:08 pm
daveoma wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:28 am I think the increase in tax revenue and attraction to outside developers would be worth the subsidies. I'd much rather subsidize a project like this than a concrete beltway to nowhere.
You realize this would be an annual subsidy for the entirety of its operation, right?

That beltway to nowhere would likely require even more annual subsidies.

Busguy2010 · Post by **Busguy2010** » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:00 pm

TitosBuritoBarn wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:47 pm
ScrattyB wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:08 pm
daveoma wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:28 am I think the increase in tax revenue and attraction to outside developers would be worth the subsidies. I'd much rather subsidize a project like this than a concrete beltway to nowhere.
You realize this would be an annual subsidy for the entirety of its operation, right?
That beltway to nowhere would likely require even more annual subsidies.

I was gonna say something like this. Who knows how much "said hypothetical traffic reducing highway" would cost to construct (I would argue it would cost many times as much to construct freeway miles than a commuter rail utilizing existing tracks), but it would definitely come with its own maintenance costs that would match, or surpass the cost of operating a train.

ScrattyB · Post by **ScrattyB** » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:24 pm

Busguy2010 wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:00 pm
TitosBuritoBarn wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:47 pm
ScrattyB wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:08 pm
daveoma wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:28 am I think the increase in tax revenue and attraction to outside developers would be worth the subsidies. I'd much rather subsidize a project like this than a concrete beltway to nowhere.
You realize this would be an annual subsidy for the entirety of its operation, right?
That beltway to nowhere would likely require even more annual subsidies.
I was gonna say something like this. Who knows how much "said hypothetical traffic reducing highway" would cost to construct (I would argue it would cost many times as much to construct freeway miles than a commuter rail utilizing existing tracks), but it would definitely come with its own maintenance costs that would match, or surpass the cost of operating a train.

No kidding. People seem to forget these things, or forget that it's not just a one time cost.
There's only 2 million people in Nebraska, we simply can't afford it without massive federal help.

Post by **nebugeater** » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:43 pm

They both would require annual subsidies but without data to back it up it seems to me the cost per person/mile traviled will be MUCH less on the highway.

Padre · Post by **Padre** » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:14 pm

nebugeater wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:43 pm They both would require annual subsidies but without data to back it up it seems to me the cost per person/mile traviled will be MUCH less on the highway.

Almost certainly. One think I can think of is that the government doesn't have to pay for the cars, their maintence or fuel, whereas they do so for a train, or even a bus for that matter.

daveoma · Post by **daveoma** » Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:44 pm

Padre wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:14 pm
nebugeater wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:43 pm They both would require annual subsidies but without data to back it up it seems to me the cost per person/mile traviled will be MUCH less on the highway.
Almost certainly. One think I can thing of is that the government doesn't have to pay for the cars, their maintence or fuel, whereas they do so for a train, or even a bus for that matter.

These are good points, but the cost is much more complex.
1. We should take into account the cost that's transferred to the individual, forcing them to buy a car to gain the benefit of infrastructure that their tax dollars paid for.

2. We should take into account the health costs of perpetuating obesity by forcing people to sit for an hour instead of walking for an hour.

3. The carbon cost of emitting carbon and other pollutants (including carcinogens) into the environment given that automobiles are much less efficient at delivering humans than trains. The pollutants increase rates of cancer while the increased carbon cost affects climate change which perpetuates the plight of farmers.

4. The cost of covering many square miles of fertile soil and removing its ability to produce food, capture carbon, prevent flooding by water absorption, heat pollution caused by the heat island affect, etc.

Omahacritic · Post by **Omahacritic** » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:07 am

Most of the above objections are alleviated by cost factors of installing additional lanes in both directions from Omaha to Lincoln. Won’t be long.

Padre · Post by **Padre** » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:34 am

Omahacritic wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:07 am Most of the above objections are alleviated by cost factors of installing additional lanes in both directions from Omaha to Lincoln. Won’t be long.

That will solve obesity?