ORBT - Omaha Rapid Bus Transit

[buildomaha]

I used orbt twice now going from westroads to blackstone and the OM, and it is quite the experience and really makes Omaha feel like the big city that it is. The only thing I think that could change is that the green light holding needs to be more aggressive across the board. It seems like at least half of the times when approaching a light it would turn red when another 5-10 seconds of green light would’ve been enough to get the bus through.

I am shocked every time i see one of those things, from inside or out, by how big they are! Can’t wait to see those things on some north-south routes and out further west.

[Busguy2010]

I used orbt twice now going from westroads to blackstone and the OM, and it is quite the experience and really makes Omaha feel like the big city that it is. The only thing I think that could change is that the green light holding needs to be more aggressive across the board. It seems like at least half of the times when approaching a light it would turn red when another 5-10 seconds of green light would’ve been enough to get the bus through.

I am shocked every time i see one of those things, from inside or out, by how big they are! Can’t wait to see those things on some north-south routes and out further west.

Was sitting at 76th & Dodge and saw the bus at ~ 74th and a half, and I knew my light was getting ready to turn green. I prayed the bus wouldn't mess up the cycle cause I was running late, and it didn't. I want the bus to be efficient, but when I'm a motorist, I also don't want the timing of the intersection to get messed up. So I guess in my opinion, it is okay. Hold some lights, stop at others. Push-pull. With ten or so of those buses running down Dodge during rush hour, 100% preference for the bus would eff up a LOT of people's commute a LOT of the time.

It is really cool that this thing has become a part of daily life and I welcome it 100%.

[Greg S]

How's the usage been so far. I never see anyone at any of the stops.

Greg

[Busguy2010]

How's the usage been so far. I never see anyone at any of the stops.

I would assume usage is close to or a little more than pandemic Route 2 usage. Difference is with the grade A+ stations, buses, and frequency.

If I recall correctly, pre-pandemic Route 2 was at +1200 boardings per day. I can only assume post-pandemic Route 2 was about half that. So that's where I think we are : ORBT is very well executed, but general post-pandemic ridership is down. But with more frequent arrivals and bigger buses, that makes for apparently empty buses and stops... Also depending on where and what time you saw it. Like I said a couple weeks ago, I saw one bus nearly full and 40 minutes later I saw one completely empty.

[Busguy2010]

The service is here now, now its up to people to use it. This is literally what the critics/skeptics of the bus system over the years have been calling for. Its here, lets use it.

[PWL73316]

The service is here now, now its up to people to use it. This is literally what the critics/skeptics of the bus system over the years have been calling for. Its here, lets use it.

I mean yeah, but there's nothing to use it for for most folks. There are no events, and the bulk of the jobs downtown are corporate jobs that are WFH. That also impacts service industry workers who don't have work to do because all the other workers are home.

More usage is always great but there's no way to get a fair assessment this year or maybe even next.

[ita]

The service is here now, now its up to people to use it. This is literally what the critics/skeptics of the bus system over the years have been calling for. Its here, lets use it.

I mean yeah, but there's nothing to use it for for most folks. There are no events, and the bulk of the jobs downtown are corporate jobs that are WFH. That also impacts service industry workers who don't have work to do because all the other workers are home.

More usage is always great but there's no way to get a fair assessment this year or maybe even next.

That is a fair assessment. In a conversation with Jason Rose about ORBT, I asked him what their measure of success will be in the first year of ORBT. It's not ridership, but whether they can provide consistent service as close to their promises. I don't think this year is even a good gauge for that either with less traffic due to reasons you mentioned. Nonetheless, by the time the service is more needed and traffic ticks up, I am hoping bus drivers and OMetro will have most of the kinks ironed out and car drivers will know how to properly utilize the dedicated bus lanes.

[Louie]

The service is here now, now its up to people to use it. This is literally what the critics/skeptics of the bus system over the years have been calling for. Its here, lets use it.

I mean yeah, but there's nothing to use it for for most folks. There are no events, and the bulk of the jobs downtown are corporate jobs that are WFH. That also impacts service industry workers who don't have work to do because all the other workers are home.

More usage is always great but there's no way to get a fair assessment this year or maybe even next.

That is a fair assessment. In a conversation with Jason Rose about ORBT, I asked him what their measure of success will be in the first year of ORBT. It's not ridership, but whether they can provide consistent service as close to their promises. I don't think this year is even a good gauge for that either with less traffic due to reasons you mentioned. Nonetheless, by the time the service is more needed and traffic ticks up, I am hoping bus drivers and OMetro will have most of the kinks ironed out and car drivers will know how to properly utilize the dedicated bus lanes.

It's honestly kind of good for them to have some tight to work out all the kinks before seeing the true total ridership.

[ita]

I am reading Street Fight, and the author has a chapter dedicated to buses, primarily BRT. She mentioned that in NY, BRT implementation was an immediate success reduces travel time by 20% and ridership by 10% in the first year or two. Public transit in NY is a totally different beast, but if we saw similar improvements over Route 2 with this initial ORBT line (post pandemic), will you be satisfied with the investment?

[buildomaha]

I am reading Street Fight, and the author has a chapter dedicated to buses, primarily BRT. She mentioned that in NY, BRT implementation was an immediate success reduces travel time by 20% and ridership by 10% in the first year or two. Public transit in NY is a totally different beast, but if we saw similar improvements over Route 2 with this initial ORBT line (post pandemic), will you be satisfied with the investment?

I think it will take more than just a single BRT line for Omahans to see the results that will justify the cost in their eyes. It does help that the line will have a lot of added density added along it in the next few years with all the development in and around Crossroads and downtown.

I could write an entire book praising BRT, it’s a cheaper, more nimble, and more easily implementable than traditional rail.

[Busguy2010]

if we saw similar improvements over Route 2 with this initial ORBT line (post pandemic), will you be satisfied with the investment?

First we have to re-establish ridership numbers of the discontinued Route 2. The last report I saw -- in 2015 -- was that Route 2 had 1800 boardings per day. 2015 was also when the system was overhauled, so I think it is fair to assume ridership would have grown each year through 2019, and it wouldn't be a difficult assumption that route 2 got to 2,000 (possibly more) boardings per day before the pandemic hit. But I'll just be conservative and guess it was up to 2,000.

So if we're looking for a 10% increase on Route 2, we're looking for 2,200 boardings per day on ORBT. In that last report of ORBT ridership, it was said that on the first couple of days of service, it was 1,300 boardings per day, so we are far off. But that all has to do with the pandemic. According to Metro, 1,300 boardings is double the ridership of pandemic stricken Route 2, not pre-pandemic Route 2. So in order for me to consider it a success ridership-wise, I'm going to need to see at least 2,000 boardings per day. It may be a while, but I think we'll get back to old ridership numbers.

Route 2 during rush hour was 33 minutes from Westroads to 15th & Douglas. If you are to ride ORBT now from Westroads to 15th and Douglas ("Downtown"), it is currently an even 30 minutes during the meat of the day. So we didn't see much improvement on that front.

The infrastructure, rolling stock, and frequency are really where we won with this investment.

The only gripe I have is some of the transfers from regular routes don't happen directly next to the stations. Like at 40th, to transfer from the 3, you have to walk a block or two depending on eastbound or westbound. At Park ave to transfer to and from the 30 or the 35 is a 1 or 2 block walk. I was thinking maybe they could slightly change some of the routing to make for direct transfers. Maybe put some of the regular bus stops directly next to ORBT stations.

[buildomaha]

Hopefully Metro can utilize the drop off in ridership from the pandemic to experiment with some of the types of ideas that you have Bus.

I also think that there definitely could be a way to form a carpool and bus lane along dodge, west of downtown. I know it gets iffy when the road is only 5 lanes wide, but I think it would be interesting to see how traffic patterns react. It would improve the travel time for ORBT and maybe be the final push to get people to convert from driving. A lot of planning is making little nudges at people to push them to better ways of doing things (ie little nudges to get people out of their cars).

[Busguy2010]

Hopefully Metro can utilize the drop off in ridership from the pandemic to experiment with some of the types of ideas that you have Bus.

I also think that there definitely could be a way to form a carpool and bus lane along dodge, west of downtown. I know it gets iffy when the road is only 5 lanes wide, but I think it would be interesting to see how traffic patterns react. It would improve the travel time for ORBT and maybe be the final push to get people to convert from driving. A lot of planning is making little nudges at people to push them to better ways of doing things (ie little nudges to get people out of their cars).

I had this idea several years ago, but thought it would never fly... But to have the eastbound curb lane be a BAT lane only from like 6a-9a and the Westbound curb lane be a BAT lane the rest of the time... So all day Dodge between Turner Boulevard and 69th is two lanes in each directions all day. It would be kinda hard to figure out how to stripe and signal it, and I have my doubts Omahans could figure out how to coexist with it, or if they would even accept it, but that would be about the only way I could see how to make ORBT and actual BRT route.

[Busguy2010]

OR actually just make the westbound curb lane BAT only all the time since the morning rush isn't nearly as bad as. the evening rush. Just make the southern four lanes into two westbound and two eastbound.

[stadsborgare]

I'd like to see a little more integration between the stops and surrounding areas. Remember when MAT for a time had a bus stop set up right by the entrance to Crossroads Mall? That's what I mean.

And then Target moved in and the attitude was like "get that ugly bus stop off our property!" so they moved it back to the street.

Now when they fully develop the new Crossroads, I would like to see ORBT perhaps move their stop to the middle of that shopping area to maximize use of transit as an option? - where all the foot traffic from stores converge - instead of making the bus rider have to walk all the way over and then down a grassy berm to the level of the intersection of 72nd & Dodge in order to catch the bus?

Or at the least, if they were to keep the stop where it is, how about building steps down to the bus stop from the shopping area to better facillitate travel on foot between the two?

We as a city treat public transit like they're the ugly step child while we make for darn sure people driving in their private vehicles have the utmost convenience. Like they are able to park as close as possible to the door of the business they're patronizing, while the bus stop is way over yonder where it is not so pedestrian-friendly to get to.

And then we wonder why we can't get more people to ride the bus.

Now, ORBT has made *some* progress. The Westroads is a nice park-and-ride location. If we want to increase ridership, we have to attract people who have their own cars - and thus offer them places to park-and-ride, so they can combine the two modes of transport (save gas and time?). Westroads can't be the only one? We need more park-and-rides. At these other stops I don't know if I'm allowed to park there all day? Will I get towed?

I love the trail stop, because that's a sort of park-and-ride in itself. You ride your bike down the trail, then park your bike on the bus and ride. Very convenient.

They need more of this kind of integration to increase ridership, in other words, to increase the "convenience quotient."

In some bigger cities they have subway stations connected to shopping malls or food courts, and tunnels or skywalks to connect to other stations.

In Atlanta, though, they made sure to build their new baseball stadium beyond the reaches of transit lines, which gives one the idea which kinds of customers they value more.

Which kind of city do we want to be?

[GrandpaaSmucker]

Not seeing lots of Orbits when I drive Dodge. They promised short waits for buses and I don't see that yet.

[Busguy2010]

Not seeing lots of Orbits when I drive Dodge. They promised short waits for buses and I don't see that yet.

Must be at the wrong place at the wrong time then honestly. I spend almost my whole life around Dodge street and I see them all the time. A couple weeks ago I rolled up to 78th & Dodge and said "I wonder if there's an ORBT coming", I looked left and there it was a block away. And that was at like 11:00pm when they only run every 20 minutes. If you are in a position to just sit and look at Dodge street for any period of time, you will see one probably every 5 minutes either going east or west during weekdays.

[S.O.Boy]

Not seeing lots of Orbits when I drive Dodge. They promised short waits for buses and I don't see that yet.

Must be at the wrong place at the wrong time then honestly. I spend almost my whole life around Dodge street and I see them all the time. A couple weeks ago I rolled up to 78th & Dodge and said "I wonder if there's an ORBT coming", I looked left and there it was a block away. And that was at like 11:00pm when they only run every 20 minutes. If you are in a position to just sit and look at Dodge street for any period of time, you will see one probably every 5 minutes either going east or west during weekdays.

Yes. Ever time I cross Dodge, I see one.

[stadsborgare]

77th & Dodge canopy being delivered today to be installed...

[labguy]

Going through 90th and Dodge this evening, I noticed they were running regular buses on Dodge. I saw one in each direction. I wonder if the recent cold and snow caused some ORBT buses to break down?

[Busguy2010]

Going through 90th and Dodge this evening, I noticed they were running regular buses on Dodge. I saw one in each direction. I wonder if the recent cold and snow caused some ORBT buses to break down?

I saw them too, and wondered the same thing... But I was unable to see what the hoodsigns of the regular buses said. Did you see what they said? There are several regular buses that use Dodge to get to and from Westroads and 22nd & Cuming when their runs are beginning or are done for the evening. Usually the hoodsigns will say "22nd & Cuming" or "Not in Service"

[labguy]

Going through 90th and Dodge this evening, I noticed they were running regular buses on Dodge. I saw one in each direction. I wonder if the recent cold and snow caused some ORBT buses to break down?

I saw them too, and wondered the same thing... But I was unable to see what the hoodsigns of the regular buses said. Did you see what they said? There are several regular buses that use Dodge to get to and from Westroads and 22nd & Cuming when their runs are beginning or are done for the evening. Usually the hoodsigns will say "22nd & Cuming" or "Not in Service"

I couldn't see the signs, but they both stopped at the 90th and Dodge stops before continuing, so I don't think they were dead-heading.

[Busguy2010]

I couldn't see the signs, but they both stopped at the 90th and Dodge stops before continuing, so I don't think they were dead-heading.

I really wouldn't be surprised if they had to use regular buses for the ORBT route. Stuff happens.

[Garrett]

The article about the mayor's race in the OWH today includes a bit from Stothert that says the city is looking to expand ORBT in North and South Omaha.

[Athomsfere]

The article about the mayor's race in the OWH today includes a bit from Stothert that says the city is looking to expand ORBT in North and South Omaha.

I guess even Stothert sees the value, finally.

Or maybe it's the pressure from Neary and Harrison making it a decent part of their platform.

[Louie]

The article about the mayor's race in the OWH today includes a bit from Stothert that says the city is looking to expand ORBT in North and South Omaha.

I guess even Stothert sees the value, finally.

Or maybe it's the pressure from Neary and Harrison making it a decent part of their platform.

More likely the latter.

[ita]

The article about the mayor's race in the OWH today includes a bit from Stothert that says the city is looking to expand ORBT in North and South Omaha.

I guess even Stothert sees the value, finally.

Or maybe it's the pressure from Neary and Harrison making it a decent part of their platform.

More likely the latter.

You have to think to that the new Metro leadership is already pushing for more service, more innovation, and is establishing a new strategic plan in the next few months. Even if the City and the current administration is keen on expanding public transit, Metro has the will and, hopefully soon, the way to do it.

[ita]

With the first round of public meetings for MetroNEXT OMetro is focusing on community input on potential BRT routes. There are a couple that are unexpected like the north/south beltline routes. Heres the map showing the routes with opportunity to leave a comment.

https://platform.remix.com/map/1d9f7112 ... 6.08437,11

[Busguy2010]

It all looks about right to me... But yes, the beltlines are a little bit of a surprise... However, I'm assuming this is a lot like the meeting I went to in 2011 where everyone drew their ideas on a map and someone could have suggested that routing again. Anyway, this is very preliminary. I see all the usual suspects here.

I would expect the next ORBT routes to essentially be the 4, 15, 18, 24 or 30 upgraded to ORBT in no particular order. BUT the 18 is the second busiest route behind current ORBT.

[Big E]

It all looks about right to me... But yes, the beltlines are a little bit of a surprise... However, I'm assuming this is a lot like the meeting I went to in 2011 where everyone drew their ideas on a map and someone could have suggested that routing again. Anyway, this is very preliminary. I see all the usual suspects here.

I would expect the next ORBT routes to essentially be the 4, 15, 18, 24 or 30 upgraded to ORBT in no particular order. BUT the 18 is the second busiest route behind current ORBT.

No 10th/13th St from Airport to zoo on there? That seems like the single most obvious route in the city.

[Busguy2010]

No 10th/13th St from Airport to zoo on there? That seems like the single most obvious route in the city.

I don't know. That never was even a well ridden regular bus. They got rid of the 6/10 well over 10 years ago. I think the approach to this is more trying to improve the busiest routes rather than find new ones. On that note, I have to say the beltway idea is a reach for the scope of this study thing. Not that I wouldn't like either of those routes, but I think this study will conclude with something closer to home, such as making route 4, 15, 18, 24, 30 into ORBT routes.

[Jins123]

With the first round of public meetings for MetroNEXT OMetro is focusing on community input on potential BRT routes. There are a couple that are unexpected like the north/south beltline routes. Heres the map showing the routes with opportunity to leave a comment.

https://platform.remix.com/map/1d9f7112 ... 6.08437,11

Are these informal proposals? Love the Maple street to Med Center part. Some would understandably not like that it doesn’t do the direct route to downtown, but ending the Maple street route near the Med Center gives you access to Dodge street and that ORBIT route.

[nebraska]

With the first round of public meetings for MetroNEXT OMetro is focusing on community input on potential BRT routes. There are a couple that are unexpected like the north/south beltline routes. Heres the map showing the routes with opportunity to leave a comment.

https://platform.remix.com/map/1d9f7112 ... 6.08437,11

Are these informal proposals? Love the Maple street to Med Center part. Some would understandably not like that it doesn’t do the direct route to downtown, but ending the Maple street route near the Med Center gives you access to Dodge street and that ORBIT route.

Yes, the remix is suggestions for future ORBTs. You can add your own right on the map. You still have one more chance (Tuesday the 30th at noon) to give live feedback during an OMetro presentation.

[ricko]

Maybe it was mentioned in the study, but I'm sure they've done some marketing surveys to find out what routes would make sense, and who would be most likely to use ORBT. I would think that populations least likely to own cars would be the target demo, but then that might make too much sense. Just from my own armchair B.S. perspective, a line on 24th St. from Ames to Q St. would serve a population that would seem to actually need the service the most. People "need" to get to work; people don't "need" to go to the OM or Blackstone, unless they work there, but that's already covered.

[Busguy2010]

Thats the direction I think this will go. At the same time, I strongly question whether making a route ORBT really makes it better or not. 24th to me was a bit of a surprise when they started pushing that a couple years ago. To make the 24 an ORBT would take a lot of stops to satisfy the people who use it, and a lot of stops would defeat the purpose of said route. Heck even Dodge ORBT has one or two more stops than would be ideal. I honestly don't want to see ORBT or a streetcar on 24th. Would rather it just be a regular branded metro bus with upgraded stops.

[Busguy2010]

Whereas you could get away with having a stop only every mile on Maple or Center, 24th is just too dense and slow moving for ORBT to make sense IMO.

[Busguy2010]

I think out on Dodge, Maple, Center, 72nd, you have a lot more people to target (choice riders) for whom it would take ORBT to get them to ride, but down on 24th, there are hardly any of what would be considered choice riders.

With Route 2, there was something to address, and that was "How do we get more of these people out here to ride this down here?" The answer there was to consolidate stops, thus making it a faster trip. To me with Route 24, that question just doesn't exist, and there would be very little, if any advantage as far as travel time goes in consolidating stops on 24th.

[Taco]

Turning the field club trail into a transportation corridor? It goes through some fairly dense neighborhoods, but not much else. I think it would be better off left as is. If you're going to do anything, just find a way to add some sidewalks and extend the trail to Metro.

[Busguy2010]

If you're going to do anything, just find a way to add some sidewalks and extend the trail to Metro.

I like that thought a lot... Also would be pretty cool for the north portion of this to be a trail. Not sure how many people would be comfortable using it, but would be better than unused city property. Actually only some of it is city property, and most of it is owned by neighboring properties. But still seems more feasible than what was proposed some years ago.

On second thought... Man, that would be a rough bike ride... But maybe it would serve the people who live around there well.

[Taco]

If you're going to do anything, just find a way to add some sidewalks and extend the trail to Metro.

I like that thought a lot... Also would be pretty cool for the north portion of this to be a trail. Not sure how many people would be comfortable using it, but would be better than unused city property. Actually only some of it is city property, and most of it is owned by neighboring properties. But still seems more feasible than what was proposed some years ago.

On second thought... Man, that would be a rough bike ride... But maybe it would serve the people who live around there well.

If you are talking about the North Beltline becoming a trail that will likely occur in some fashion over the next decade.