Civic Square (former Civic Auditorium)

[Athomsfere]

The Mayor put out a press release today:

-Developer = "Civic Corner" lead by White Lotus Group
-Mixed Use (Residential, Retail, Office, Parking and Public Space)
-Phase 1 = 388 Apartments (268 Market Rate and 120 Mixed Income)

2023 Deadline for obtaining building permits.

Hey, this could finally be a nice mid-rise on par with the Wire / The Highline unit-wise to fill in that lot!

We shall see. The Mercantile, which is what, two city blocks worth of property. That's about 375 units. There is more than enough space to get a similar size (and height) building on the Civic Site. I wouldn't get my hopes up for anything about 5 stories for this project. If it's taller than that, that's great. Otherwise, I am expecting a 5-story and below residential structure, hopefully with some mixed use elements. I am glad there will be mixed income units though. White Lotus is involved in several low income housing projects in the Metro, so they are a decent pick to get this done.

For this Phase 1 residential project, where is the best spot to locate it? Do you think they will spread it out throughout the lot?

It's like 8 blocks... But you might be right.
It's a huge lot. Being that there are multiple phases, perhaps they will space it out. And build at least modest height things here.

But with the cost of a 5 on 1, that's probably what we will get.

[Garrett]

The Mayor put out a press release today:

-Developer = "Civic Corner" lead by White Lotus Group
-Mixed Use (Residential, Retail, Office, Parking and Public Space)
-Phase 1 = 388 Apartments (268 Market Rate and 120 Mixed Income)

2023 Deadline for obtaining building permits.

Hey, this could finally be a nice mid-rise on par with the Wire / The Highline unit-wise to fill in that lot!

We shall see. The Mercantile, which is what, two city blocks worth of property. That's about 375 units. There is more than enough space to get a similar size (and height) building on the Civic Site. I wouldn't get my hopes up for anything about 5 stories for this project. If it's taller than that, that's great. Otherwise, I am expecting a 5-story and below residential structure, hopefully with some mixed use elements. I am glad there will be mixed income units though. White Lotus is involved in several low income housing projects in the Metro, so they are a decent pick to get this done.

For this Phase 1 residential project, where is the best spot to locate it? Do you think they will spread it out throughout the lot?

It's like 8 blocks... But you might be right.
It's a huge lot. Being that there are multiple phases, perhaps they will space it out. And build at least modest height things here.

But with the cost of a 5 on 1, that's probably what we will get.

The development area is 4 blocks large.

As for the size of the building, it could be more. For comparison, the new Blackstone building is 9 stories, with what looks like 3 stories being parking/ground level and then 6 stories of apartments. It has 161 apartments. The Capitol District apartments have 218 units in 12 stories. So, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[ita]

The Mayor put out a press release today:

-Developer = "Civic Corner" lead by White Lotus Group
-Mixed Use (Residential, Retail, Office, Parking and Public Space)
-Phase 1 = 388 Apartments (268 Market Rate and 120 Mixed Income)

2023 Deadline for obtaining building permits.

Hey, this could finally be a nice mid-rise on par with the Wire / The Highline unit-wise to fill in that lot!

We shall see. The Mercantile, which is what, two city blocks worth of property. That's about 375 units. There is more than enough space to get a similar size (and height) building on the Civic Site. I wouldn't get my hopes up for anything about 5 stories for this project. If it's taller than that, that's great. Otherwise, I am expecting a 5-story and below residential structure, hopefully with some mixed use elements. I am glad there will be mixed income units though. White Lotus is involved in several low income housing projects in the Metro, so they are a decent pick to get this done.

For this Phase 1 residential project, where is the best spot to locate it? Do you think they will spread it out throughout the lot?

It's like 8 blocks... But you might be right.
It's a huge lot. Being that there are multiple phases, perhaps they will space it out. And build at least modest height things here.

But with the cost of a 5 on 1, that's probably what we will get.

The development area is 4 blocks large.

As for the size of the building, it could be more. For comparison, the new Blackstone building is 9 stories, with what looks like 3 stories being parking/ground level and then 6 stories of apartments. It has 161 apartments. The Capitol District apartments have 218 units in 12 stories. So, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I am hoping for taller buildings, but you're naming projects in the metro that have more trendy aspirations. White lotus did the 30 metro apartment building by MCC and is currently the developer on the pershing site in lincoln. If they are shooting for similar densities, we are getting low-mid rise buildings.

I am not so bummed by the height, and you could very well be right that they make the residential buildings mixed use with garage parking which would additional stories. I have also noticed that other recent low income housing projects incorporate a more balanced mix of 1-3 bed units, which would mean more sq ft per unit. That could also lead to more height. Regardless of the height, I am happy that they are incorporating residential there, particularly low/mixed income. I am looking forward to what white lotus has planned. I am guessing we will see it right before the next election cycle, right?

[Garrett]

And 1+4 appears to be the winner! Stothert posted renderings on her Facebook page. I’m on my phone otherwise I’d share them.

[nebport5]

World Herald link

[Brad]

Here are a couple renderings that came out a little later. I am posting these from my phone so if they look bad, I will get better images posted in a bit.

738333EA-2D44-4276-946B-E94B947F9224.jpeg

[iamjacobm]

I like it.

This site has proven to be really tough to develop and now hopfully will offer housing for 500+ people downtown. The office portion looks nice, I think as drawn it is going to look sharp next to the Zorinsky Building across the street at about the same scale.

Could nitpick a couple of things, but overall looks like a win for DT Omaha.

[jomaha9]

Agreed. The priority is filling the lot. Its a bonus the plan calls for affordable housing and will boost the downtown population.

I am a bit disappointed there is not a plan to reconnect the street grid or have more street level retail. This site has been notoriously hard to develop so I won't get too worked up on the design.

[nebport5]

I'll say it. Underwhelming. A suburban style campus of 4 story apartments with a 9 story office building. Best use of four city blocks?! Lotus has a year and a half to fail or at least ignite whatever phase one is of this vaguely announced plan. 2023 could start off with the new joke here being 30-60 months.

[Omaha Cowboy]

I'll say it. Underwhelming. A suburban style campus of 4 story apartments with a 9 story office building. Best use of four city blocks?! Lotus has a year and a half to fail or at least ignite whatever phase one is of this vaguely announced plan. 2023 could start off with the new joke here being 30-60 months.

Agreed..

The timing of this announcement smacks more of Stothert “posturing” before next weeks election..than anything else..and not that she really needs to either..

Underwhelming? Yes. Solid, actual development announcement not likely for the next 24-36 months if ever? You bet..

I hate to throw a wet blanket here- but this is a yawn rather than a wow...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[Linkin5]

I’m glad that huge lot is getting filled. With that said, meh.

[ita]

Called the low-mid rise on the residential...swish. I am surprised the office is as tall as it is than realized it's half parking structure. Like it's already been said that portion (above the parking levels) should look good with the Federal Building. Decent design though. It looks more like the mercantile or nove versus every other big box apartment building in midtown. I wonder if there is any possibility to build on top of the existing parking structure? It seems like there is so much parking, like too much than needed for as many units they are building. I mean isn't the existing parking garage like 500+ spaces?

[Big E]

WHAT NO zOMG GROCERY STORE

[Cermak]

I hope this gets built. And doesn’t get scaled back over time. The office building looks halfway decent, the rest is nothing special. This will get rid of a grassy field downtown gotta like that.

[MadMartin8]

Welp. Disappointing. It's going to look kind of weird in that spot to be honest, if this was say in Lot B (or is it Lot D? I can never remember)? That'd fit well I think. For the Civic site? Naw.

[Garrett]

Now that I’m looking at the site plan a bit more, “Capital Avenue” sticks out like a sore thumb.

Anyway, I’m struggling to see in the rendering where any sort of public space or library is going.

[Louie]

Welp. Disappointing. It's going to look kind of weird in that spot to be honest, if this was say in Lot B (or is it Lot D? I can never remember)? That'd fit well I think. For the Civic site? Naw.

Completely agree

[Louie]

Is that just an alley that goes through the block? Or is it a two way street?

[TitosBuritoBarn]

Architecture programs really need to include urban design classes. It’s like nobody considers what it’s like to walk next to a building. Im specifically looking at the office building and the blank wall below a parking garage on 17th.

Or maybe not even urban design classes. Maybe just as part of a lecture ask “would you feel interested to walk next to your building?” If the answer is no, revise it until you do.

[ita]

Now that I’m looking at the site plan a bit more, “Capital Avenue” sticks out like a sore thumb.

Anyway, I’m struggling to see in the rendering where any sort of public space or library is going.

OH, I didn't even notice the misspelling. No last minute edit and spell checks on this one. This project is in good hands.

Yeah, I scratched my head about that as well. Granted, these are early renderings so maybe this is just one configuration under consideration, but yeah, I don't know where public spaces are unless they are talking about the new sidewalks. Maybe the library gets built on top of the existing garage (I keep bringing it up, but I want to see at least one developer try it on one of the dozen parking garages downtown).

[Garrett]

Architecture programs really need to include urban design classes. It’s like nobody considers what it’s like to walk next to a building. Im specifically looking at the office building and the blank wall below a parking garage on 17th.

Or maybe not even urban design classes. Maybe just as part of a lecture ask “would you feel interested to walk next to your building?” If the answer is no, revise it until you do.

Yeah the urban design of this project really is |expletive|. It’s a huge lot with potential for some interesting spaces and they’re just throwing in some half assed small streets. Coulda been a great spot for a plaza, fountain or something, especially if they want the library there.

[legato9]

I’m so thrilled that they’re beige and brick rectangles. I keep telling myself, “What Omaha really needs is a more beige and brick rectangular aesthetic.” I figured that a 95% beige/brick concentration would do the job. But I was wrong. Here’s to hoping that 98% will be the magic number!

(Is there a more depressing job than being an architect in Omaha?)

[Athomsfere]

I'm trying to be realistic on this lot. But it feels like the wrong move. Like in 20 years, it will be an underbuilt development we want torn down.

I'm glad to get rid of a giant lot, but using 20% of the lot for a more substantially vertical building feels like the better move.

[Louie]

I’m so thrilled that they’re beige and brick rectangles. I keep telling myself, “What Omaha really needs is a more beige and brick rectangular aesthetic.” I figured that a 95% beige/brick concentration would do the job. But I was wrong. Here’s to hoping that 98% will be the magic number!

(Is there a more depressing job than being an architect in Omaha?)

I think the office building looks sharp. But the 4 story beige-ness they chose for the apartments is extremely played out/lackluster.

[MadMartin8]

Welp. Disappointing. It's going to look kind of weird in that spot to be honest, if this was say in Lot B (or is it Lot D? I can never remember)? That'd fit well I think. For the Civic site? Naw.

Completely agree

Imagine this next to the new Kiewit HQ? I think it'd fit great into that area. Oh well.

[PWL73316]

Better than nothing, not nearly as good as it could be on most fronts. Taller building is nice but that building is like 10% of the lot.

[Omaha Cowboy]

I think the thing to remember, at least what I’m gleaming most off this “announcement”..is it has more to do with Stothert posturing before the election next week than anything else..

This idea may never even come to fruition.. So I’m taking it for what it’s worth..and not holding my breath...

Ciao..LiO...Peace

[ita]

Former Civic Auditorium site to be redeveloped as apartments, shops, public space

Reece Ristau
New life — including hundreds of apartments — is expected to come to the grassy downtown site of Omaha’s former Civic Auditorium.

Omaha Mayor Jean Stothert on Tuesday announced that the city has signed an agreement to sell the property near 17th Street and Capitol Avenue to a development group called Civic Corner. It’s being led by White Lotus Group, an Omaha company with a history of developing local large-scale projects.

A key focus of the redevelopment plan is on housing. Civic Corner plans to build a mix of 268 market-rate and 120 mixed-income apartments on about 6 acres, the largest part of the property.

So, I am a bit confused about this last paragraph. Are all residential units going to be on 6 acres, or just the mixed income? I thought the site was 14 acres, at least that's what the Douglas County Assessor GIS says. The plans Brad posted seem like the residential parts take up way more than 6 acres of the site.

Also, this:

Stothert dismissed notions that the timing of the announcement was a political calculation.

“It has nothing to do with when an election is — it has everything to do with the right project at the right time with the right developer,” Stothert said. “And that’s what we have.”

[Busguy2010]

Would like to see something with more of a Capitol district height to it, but this is pretty much exactly what I was calling for earlier in the thread: an obtainable plan that includes "affordable" units.

That is, if it happens. And I have to believe this is just an idea, not really a plan yet, and the actual plan will be different from what we see today.

[Athomsfere]

Would like to see something with more of a Capitol district height to it, but this is pretty much exactly what I was calling for earlier in the thread: an obtainable plan that includes "affordable" units.

That is, if it happens. And I have to believe this is just an idea, not really a plan yet, and the actual plan will be different from what we see today.

Agreed. Another Capital District like set of units would work well here. Even a two "towers" around a commercial building would be great.

[Taco]

I agree with the general blah/missed opportunity feeling that permeates this thread. On the other hand, this is a classic Stothert political ploy to release a plan that won't soon come to fruition (60-90 days) a week before the election and White Lotus doesn't have a great track record of getting their shovels dirty. I'll believe it when I see it.

[jomaha9]

I agree with the general blah/missed opportunity feeling that permeates this thread. On the other hand, this is a classic Stothert political ploy to release a plan that won't soon come to fruition (60-90 days) a week before the election and White Lotus doesn't have a great track record of getting their shovels dirty. I'll believe it when I see it.

Agreed. I am not too worked up about the design because I honestly don't see it coming to fruition.

[nebport5]

WHAT NO zOMG GROCERY STORE

I don't think anyone here was holding their breathe for that under the current economic/retail environment(as you've referenced). Still, a reasonable goal(under better leadership) in a latter phase of development of an obviously healthier post pandemic climate. Moreover, with Mean Jean at the reigns, did anyone here realistically expect a "wow" factor beyond her own self interests? My disappointment isn't particularly about the lack of fancy grocery(you'd admittedly shop at too if built) but rather how this plan reeks of pathetically thrown together and out of touch.

From the City of Omaha website:

“Housing options in our urban core are critical to attract new business and talent,” said Mayor Jean Stothert. “The Civic property is surrounded by new commercial development and there will be even more growth downtown in the coming years. Housing, retail, recreation, and social spaces, connected with multi-modal transit, will complete the vision we have for downtown Omaha.”

So a mixed income apartment building(that I suspect will be the only housing that ever gets built here) and likely be another defacto Creighton dorm is supposed to attract new business and fight brain drain? This btw, is apparently phase 1 of the development.

And how does this site tie in with multi-modal transit? In a better plan in a later phase I think it absolutely should. Most of us here are struggling to see how a library or public space will even fit into this desperately cobbled together politically motivated plan. I agree with Cowboy's assessment.

Meanwhile, the "it's better than nothing", "Yah! it's no longer an empty lot" or "at least we filled a hole" mentality is exactly why a narcissist will be re-elected and continue to be indifferent and out of touch with the urban core residents (and former residents). That same accomplishment could've been achieved with an un-razed Civic sitting derelict.

[nebport5]

H.O.C. Rant:

This entire proposal could easily be built on half the land. Instead of two 4 story apartment buildings why not one 8 story residential building with integrated parking and potential ground level retail? Also, anyone else notice the 9 story office building(which looks more like 8 in the rendering) sits on the lowest elevation of the property?

[LetsBeReal22]

4 stories. LOL. What a waste of prime land.

[ita]

H.O.C. Rant:

This entire proposal could easily be built on half the land. Instead of two 4 story apartment buildings why not one 8 story residential building with integrated parking and potential ground level retail? Also, anyone else notice the 9 story office building(which looks more like 8 in the rendering) sits on the lowest elevation of the property?

I entirely agree that the same could be accomplished with one or two 8 story towers. I kind of don't understand the four story residential building on the north half of the property. The roof top is going to be directly level or just above I-480, is it not? That would mean roof top amenities, if any, will have a nice view of the highway. I wonder if they stick hallways and elevator shafts and stairs on that side of the building to minimize noise pollution.

Another question to jump off your H.O.C. rant, particularly for any experts in the construction or development field, what is the break even point now for stick and frame versus CFS construction? I know height increases the cost of construction exponentially the higher you go, but when we are building on downtown lots, I like more density. Additionally, it seems that from an investment standpoint, higher density built with better materials makes more sense than what has been revealed thus far. I guess the other issue is that they are building mixed income, which I get why they are building with stick and frame (assumption based on the height and number of stories), as they try to keep costs down. Also, they don't have plans to build any time soon, maybe because of lumber prices? But with the increase of cost of lumber, does CFS and more height make more sense in certain instances (and I am not asking about this project exclusively)?

[Athomsfere]

H.O.C. Rant:

This entire proposal could easily be built on half the land. Instead of two 4 story apartment buildings why not one 8 story residential building with integrated parking and potential ground level retail? Also, anyone else notice the 9 story office building(which looks more like 8 in the rendering) sits on the lowest elevation of the property?

I entirely agree that the same could be accomplished with one or two 8 story towers. I kind of don't understand the four story residential building on the north half of the property. The roof top is going to be directly level or just above I-480, is it not? That would mean roof top amenities, if any, will have a nice view of the highway. I wonder if they stick hallways and elevator shafts and stairs on that side of the building to minimize noise pollution.

Another question to jump off your H.O.C. rant, particularly for any experts in the construction or development field, what is the break even point now for stick and frame versus CFS construction? I know height increases the cost of construction exponentially the higher you go, but when we are building on downtown lots, I like more density. Additionally, it seems that from an investment standpoint, higher density built with better materials makes more sense than what has been revealed thus far. I guess the other issue is that they are building mixed income, which I get why they are building with stick and frame (assumption based on the height and number of stories), as they try to keep costs down. Also, they don't have plans to build any time soon, maybe because of lumber prices? But with the increase of cost of lumber, does CFS and more height make more sense in certain instances (and I am not asking about this project exclusively)?

One nit-pick. It doesn't grow exponentially. It's linearly more or less all other things considered equal...

Random article though: https://buildsteel.org/why-steel/econom ... ces-surge/

"With the Surge in Wood Prices, CFS Saves 24%". Without actually reading it yet, we could add a floor for "free" if it's true.

[Cermak]

Very possible this doesn’t get built at all. Or it will get built but significantly scaled back , maybe a 5 story office building and 3 story apartment. The office building rendering looks more 8 floors than 9. But even at 8 floors I will take it. I hope they don’t lower it anymore like what happened to the Capitol district office building which ended up being just 3 floors.

[ita]

H.O.C. Rant:

This entire proposal could easily be built on half the land. Instead of two 4 story apartment buildings why not one 8 story residential building with integrated parking and potential ground level retail? Also, anyone else notice the 9 story office building(which looks more like 8 in the rendering) sits on the lowest elevation of the property?

I entirely agree that the same could be accomplished with one or two 8 story towers. I kind of don't understand the four story residential building on the north half of the property. The roof top is going to be directly level or just above I-480, is it not? That would mean roof top amenities, if any, will have a nice view of the highway. I wonder if they stick hallways and elevator shafts and stairs on that side of the building to minimize noise pollution.

Another question to jump off your H.O.C. rant, particularly for any experts in the construction or development field, what is the break even point now for stick and frame versus CFS construction? I know height increases the cost of construction exponentially the higher you go, but when we are building on downtown lots, I like more density. Additionally, it seems that from an investment standpoint, higher density built with better materials makes more sense than what has been revealed thus far. I guess the other issue is that they are building mixed income, which I get why they are building with stick and frame (assumption based on the height and number of stories), as they try to keep costs down. Also, they don't have plans to build any time soon, maybe because of lumber prices? But with the increase of cost of lumber, does CFS and more height make more sense in certain instances (and I am not asking about this project exclusively)?

One nit-pick. It doesn't grow exponentially. It's linearly more or less all other things considered equal...

Random article though: https://buildsteel.org/why-steel/econom ... ces-surge/

"With the Surge in Wood Prices, CFS Saves 24%". Without actually reading it yet, we could add a floor for "free" if it's true.

Thanks for the clarification and article. I know the website is steel oriented, but I am sold. Let's do this project taller with CFS residential buildings. Seems like the cost of CFS versus wood is negligible or better right now. I wonder how long this surge in wood prices will last.

[Athomsfere]

Thanks for the clarification and article. I know the website is steel oriented, but I am sold. Let's do this project taller with CFS residential buildings. Seems like the cost of CFS versus wood is negligible or better right now. I wonder how long this surge in wood prices will last.

The article was from 2020, so we likely would see even more savings now. And my assumption is, it's going to climb for at least another year.

If I were paying for a new building, I know I would be considering CFS, as the long term costs are lower: Namely insurance.

Really, I'm surprised no one has tried to outlaw the 5 on 1. But it's benefits really make it make sense in a city like Omaha for example. Car-centric, adds density cheaply...

But I'd love it if the Omaha urban planning went to not allowing TIF for these, especially for something like a TOD development. Drop the R1 zones entirely, and on and on...