2021 Weather thread-

[GetUrban]

Looks like the Omadome took the night off.

[Omaha Cowboy]

Heavy rain in my neck of the woods in the 120th to 132nd and West Center Rd area..

Tons of lightening and thunder…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[Busguy2010]

There was some pretty nice spider lightning following the main brunt of the storm. Probably still going on. All in all the storm could have been worse. I thought it was pretty exciting, with not a ton of damage. Storm was pretty much exactly what I get excited for when severe season comes around. I'm a little surprised they didnt put the sirens on as the storm had definite radar indicated rotation as I showed on the last page. I'd bet they were really considering it... Or of its the same people as the July 10th storm, maybe they weren't

[Uffda]

You guys got dumped on last night.

Twitter video of a River running down Jones Street

[stormchaser]

Animated gif showing the storm as it was moving fairly quickly northeast. It then started embedding on the east/west boundary and began to rotate. Notice how the speed of the storm quickly slowed as it turned more easterly.


Animated gif showing what probably should have been a tornado warned storm (especially considering the populated area it was moving into). Overall rotation was pretty broad but near and south of Wahoo and east to just south of Yutan it wrapped up pretty good as RFD kicked in (the bright green that showed up on velocities). I observed a few brief funnels - enough so that a tornado could have dropped with little notice (thankfully it never did).

[Omaha Cowboy]

I saw some pics of the flooding downtown in the Old Market area..I’ve never seen anything remotely like that in this area..

Yet another extreme and dangerous weather event basically a month after the last one. Let’s keep our fingers crossed we’re done with these type of intense thunderstorms for the rest of 2021…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[Busguy2010]

So I'm not the only one who was surprised this wasn't tornado warned. That was probably the best hook I've ever seen that close to Omaha. Whomever is currently at the NWS, and whomever has their fingers on the controls for the sirens in Omaha has got to be snoozing, complacent, or from Oklahoma, or I don't know. Between no sirens last night, and the sirens coming on halfway through our July 10th bludgeoning, I'd have to say I'm less than impressed with the job they're doing.

[Omaha Cowboy]

Bill Randby was showing the radar and talking about the hook/rotation as the storm was heading into western Douglas and Sarpy counties..He stated they had a bunch of spotters on the ground watching it. Luckily nothing materialized..

The amount of rain this storm produced in such a short amount of time, is something I can’t remember happening in the metro during my adult life. I remember the Papio Creek flooding in the late 1960’s when I was 6 or 7 years old.. Brad reminded me of the 1997 Cole Creek flood that killed one person in Benson..I only vaguely remember that..

This last storm, just like the one a month ago, were of 2 most intense back to back weather events in terms of Severe Thunderstorms I can remember in a loooooong time. Earlier this year, I posted in this thread that Omaha was “due” for some wild weather as we’ve pretty much avoided it for 4 years prior. Right now, I’m putting in for 4 more years of quiet…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[Busguy2010]

The amount of rain this storm produced in such a short amount of time, is something I can’t remember happening in the metro during my adult life. I remember the Papio Creek flooding in the late 1960’s when I was 6 or 7 years old.. Brad reminded me of the 1997 Cole Creek flood that killed one person in Benson..I only vaguely remember that..

Approximately 2" of rain reported for the event, and about 1.4" reported for the July 10th storm. Both the August 1999 and August 2018 deluges delivered over 8" of rain in a less than a 24- 36 hour span.

You can see that info here: https://eomahaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19679

Not that I wasn't impressed with the rainfall from last night or from all the rain events that have happened since July 10th, it has been an impressively wet summer, which we definitely needed. I guess if you were to extrapolate the hourly rate from last night, it would be about .66" per hour.

If I had to say for myself, this last storm just reminded me of the storms I was used to seeing a few times every year growing up, as far as rain and intensity. A far cry from late 2017 to early 2021. I view this streak as getting back to normal. The quiet streak was what was weird to me.

[Omaha Cowboy]

According to the NWS in Valley, this storm dumped anywhere from 2-4 inches of rain in the Omaha metro within a one hour time span..and the core area of Omaha was hardest hit..this was no ordinary storm we’re used to seeing several times in a “normal year”…and it caused dangerous flooding issues the likes we haven’t seen in Omaha in at least 25 years if not longer..

From the W-H-

“Officially, the Millard Airport reported 2.39 inches of rain and Eppley Airfield recorded 2.02. Unofficially, some Omaha area residents reported higher amounts. A woman who lives near 114th Street and West Dodge Road, said she had 4 inches of precipitation in her rain gauge.

Omaha's Public Works Department called in additional crews to respond to damage reports, Steve Andersen, manager of the sewer maintenance unit, said Sunday. Saddle Creek Road, Jones Street downtown and the area of 20th and Leavenworth Streets were some of the areas crews were working, he said.

"The combined sewer system was overloaded," Andersen said. "Some of our rain gauges showed up to 4 inches (of rain) falling an hour. We're fortunate that the rain was short lived."

The roadway at 50th and Saddle Creek was filled with rocks and other washed-out debris. Four abandoned cars still surrounded the intersection Sunday morning.

The rain on Saturday night was fast and furious.

"Most of the heaviest stuff fell over a pretty short period," meteorologist Dirk Petersen of the National Weather Service office in Valley said. "The storms hit the western edge of Omaha about 8:40 (p.m.), and then they kept coming one after another. From 9 p.m. to 10:30 is when (the rain) really hit downtown Omaha."“..

The complete story link:

https://omaha.com/weather/fast-heavy-ra ... -top-story

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[Busguy2010]

Fine, I'll give you that it wasn't an every year type of thing, but it definitely wasn't anything I hadn't seen before. Honestly can't fathom the Old Market hadn't been inundated like that before, but perhaps the last time it did, not everybody took video of it.

And by my eye it started at about 9pm, the really bad part was done by 10, but there were still fairly substantial periods of rainfall until at least 12:30, 1am.

My point is, this feels normal to me. The calm period of 2017 to 2021 was abnormal. Although I have to admit, the 2021 severe season has laid it on thick the past month, I feel like events such as last night should be expected 2-3 times between May and October, but it would be better to happen maybe once in May, once in June, and maybe once to end the season. Not all in a 30 day period, like it has, and not so late in the season like it has. That is mainly what is abnormal to me.

[Busguy2010]

Fun fact, the 2.02" of rain recorded yesterday happened on the exact same calendar date (8/7) as the all time daily record of 6.46" in 1999.

[Omaha Cowboy]

I am supremely confident in saying in my adult life (and I’m 60 years old now), the Old Market has never, EVER seen flooding like we saw last night with that storm..

And are you seriously saying you’ve seen flooding like that in Omaha’s core before when you reference “it definitely wasn’t anything I hadn’t seen before”? If so, please let me know when..because I’ve never seen it..Perhaps I’m interpreting your last post incorrectly however…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[GetUrban]

This was comparable to the 8/7 1999 Cole Creek event in intensity, except over a shorter duration this time. The 8/7 1999 storms just kept coming, “training” over the same area for several hours. I can’t remember ever seeing that much rain and flooding locally in the Old Market either. We were lucky the duration of this storm was shorter. I guess this can happen in any low lying areas if the rain is intense enough.

I was driving into Omaha from Lincoln around 8:30 last night and saw the storm and lightning coming in just NW of Omaha. I didn’t slow down to the normal 65 once inside the metro. I joined a pack of cars that were also trying to beat the storm to get wherever they were going before it hit. I made it around to 72nd & I-680 just in time, just missing the first gust of wind and rain. We lost our power about 9:54 until around 1 PM today.

[Busguy2010]

I am supremely confident in saying in my adult life (and I’m 60 years old now), the Old Market has never, EVER seen flooding like we saw last night with that storm..

And are you seriously saying you’ve seen flooding like that in Omaha’s core before when you reference “it definitely wasn’t anything I hadn’t seen before”? If so, please let me know when..because I’ve never seen it..Perhaps I’m interpreting your last post incorrectly however…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

The storm was nothing I haven't seen before, and the rainfall rate was nothing I haven't seen before. Don't know how or why the OM hadn't flooded like that before (if it hadn't), because I can think of several storms over the course of even my life that were as intense or worse than last night. Maybe it was just a remarkable event for Downtown, which is a small, isolated area.

Honestly I think it's remarkability is a function of the remarkably calm late 2017 to now period. To me, last night was a pretty normal (albeit plenty severe) storm, nothing more than an 18-24 month event, IMO. If I had to rate it to the July 10th storm with that being a 10, last night's storm would get a 6 or 7.

[Omaha Cowboy]

This was a comparable event to the 8/7 1999 Cole Creek event in intensity, except over a shorter duration this time. The 8/7 1999 storms just kept coming, “training” over the same area for several hours. I can’t remember ever seeing that much rain and flooding in the Old Market either. We were lucky the duration of this storm was shorter.

Right- Brad reminded me of that Cole Creek storm where one person was killed in Benson back in 1999..

But for the core, specifically the Old Market, I’ve never, ever seen anything like last night’s flooding…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[GetUrban]

This was a comparable event to the 8/7 1999 Cole Creek event in intensity, except over a shorter duration this time. The 8/7 1999 storms just kept coming, “training” over the same area for several hours. I can’t remember ever seeing that much rain and flooding in the Old Market either. We were lucky the duration of this storm was shorter.

Right- Brad reminded me of that Cole Creek storm where one person was killed in Benson back in 1999..

But for the core, specifically the Old Market, I’ve never, ever seen anything like last night’s flooding…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

It must be that the most intense part of the cell dumped an abnormal amount of rain over a short period of time, or maybe the newer developed areas in the OM increased the amount of rapid run-off into the streets and storm sewers, or both.

[Cermak]

I am not in Omaha this weekend but saw the flooding on my phone. The Old Market flooding was disturbing to see. I don’t recall ever seeing that before. I’m guessing since the Market sits low, all the water from higher parts of Downtown rushed down the hills, quickly flooding the streets in the Old Market. Between this storm and the one on July 10th I know most people are getting burnt out by “Omaha’s summer thunderstorms”, I know I am.

It’s not good when streets flood like this. Looks like quite a bit of damage to cars and possibly street infrastructure ,homes and businesses. Not sure anything can be done to prevent flooding like this in the future either. Another somewhat shocking Omaha weather event . To add with the July 10th storm, the historic February cold snap and last year’s weird Derecho.

[ita]

I am not in Omaha this weekend but saw the flooding on my phone. The Old Market flooding was disturbing to see. I don’t recall ever seeing that before. I’m guessing since the Market sits low, all the water from higher parts of Downtown rushed down the hills, quickly flooding the streets in the Old Market. Between this storm and the one on July 10th I know most people are getting burnt out by “Omaha’s summer thunderstorms”, I know I am.

It’s not good when streets flood like this. Looks like quite a bit of damage to cars and possibly street infrastructure ,homes and businesses. Not sure anything can be done to prevent flooding like this in the future either. Another somewhat shocking Omaha weather event . To add with the July 10th storm, the historic February cold snap and last year’s weird Derecho.

I was similarly disturbed by the downtown flooding. I know it might be a freak event, but the City needs to find out what happened. For all the hope I have for more downtown development, this might give some people pause when considering building downtown, particularly if reasons behind the flooding are unknown.

[omahacacher]

I think the biggest thing to consider is that all the water in the Old Market has nowhere to empty into except for the combined sewer system. To put things in perspective, so much water came down so fast in the Big Papio basin that the Big Papio Creek at Pacific Street rose 12 feet in 55 minutes at the height of the storm (and went down almost as fast). With nowhere for the water to go in the Old Market, I actually find it surprising that this hasn’t happened before.

[Omaha Cowboy]

I think the biggest thing to consider is that all the water in the Old Market has nowhere to empty into except for the combined sewer system. To put things in perspective, so much water came down so fast in the Big Papio basin that the Big Papio Creek at Pacific Street rose 12 feet in 55 minutes at the height of the storm (and went down almost as fast). With nowhere for the water to go in the Old Market, I actually find it surprising that this hasn’t happened before.

Agreed. It just shows the rare intensity of this storm..dumping so much rain in such a short period of time.. The system just had no chance..

It was a very dangerous situation and thank God no one lost their lives or were seriously injured..

The by product of this extreme weather event hopefully will be an evaluation of what measures can be made and improved upon/put in place..so something like this never happens to this extent again…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[ita]

There is a video posted on KETV of a conference featuring OPW engineers' reporting on damage caused by flash floods, including collapsed sewers. Total damage is unknown as investigations of underground damage is being assessed.

Sewers collapsed, cars totaled: Omaha begins to total damage from Saturday's deluge

Direct link to video:
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=315396233703447

[Busguy2010]

FWIW I will probably add that storm to the weather events to remember thread in some capacity. If you're asking me personally, the storm itself wasn't anything I hadn't seen before, but obviously it impacted downtown to a higher degree than the rest of the metro.

[Omaha Cowboy]

From today’s W-H-

“Some of the city's aging sewer lines collapsed after becoming over-pressurized because of the massive amount of stormwater flowing through them, Steve Andersen, manager of sewer maintenance with the Public Works Department, said at a Monday press conference.

Andersen said the Jones-Leavenworth corridor saw almost 4 inches of rain per hour during the height of the storm, an event he called “somewhere between a 100-year and 200-year recurrence.”

Todd Pfitzer, the city engineer, said Omaha’s sewer system is designed to handle up to a 100-year storm without problems. The intense rain, in a lower-lying area of Omaha, was the “worst place” for the storm to be the most intense, Andersen said.

"When an event like this happens, it puts a massive amount of stress on our aging infrastructure," Pfitzer said. "So if there's a weak spot, it's going to find it."“..

The complete W-H story link:

https://omaha.com/news/local/storm-put- ... -top-story

And I found this interesting- from KETV’s David Earl Twitter page-

“City Engineer Todd Pfitzer:
"These events that happen once or twice in a lifetime ... to create a system that would not be impacted by a storm like we got Saturday night, financially, would be such a burden on taxpayers that it is really not a feasible solution."”..



Hmmm. Don’t know if I agree with his take. I agree that the storm was a “one or twice in a lifetime” event.. the rest has me scratching my head a bit …

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[Busguy2010]

This last storm, just like the one a month ago, were of 2 most intense back to back weather events in terms of Severe Thunderstorms I can remember in a loooooong time.

Was just looking back in the thread and I totally agree with what you said above. This has likely been the most active severe season since 2008 in terms of intensity multiplied by frequency.

[riceweb]

Hmmm. Don’t know if I agree with his take. I agree that the storm was a “one or twice in a lifetime” event.. the rest has me scratching my head a bit …

Ciao..LiO…Peace

There's a point of diminishing returns in any infrastructure investment. I'm not certain that we've been making *active* decisions about what our infrastructure should look like, instead, I think a lot of it has kinda been on autopilot. But if we gathered up all the residents of the city and let them vote on "levels" of infrastructure based on expected frequency of failure, I'm guessing most of the city would pick the lowest-cost option most of the time. So in some sense, we're always going to plan for an x-year flood, where x is a function of our comfort level and available budget.

Side note: the worst possible thing we could do is plan for 1,000-year floods and then fundamentally misunderstand the problem anyway. We *can* over-engineer something and actually create new problems or even fail to prevent the problems we planned for in the first place. I'm not sure that we're at that point, but I'm not sure if we have a better plan available to us either.

[Busguy2010]

Hmmm. Don’t know if I agree with his take. I agree that the storm was a “one or twice in a lifetime” event.. the rest has me scratching my head a bit …

Ciao..LiO…Peace

There's a point of diminishing returns in any infrastructure investment. I'm not certain that we've been making *active* decisions about what our infrastructure should look like, instead, I think a lot of it has kinda been on autopilot. But if we gathered up all the residents of the city and let them vote on "levels" of infrastructure based on expected frequency of failure, I'm guessing most of the city would pick the lowest-cost option most of the time. So in some sense, we're always going to plan for an x-year flood, where x is a function of our comfort level and available budget.

Side note: the worst possible thing we could do is plan for 1,000-year floods and then fundamentally misunderstand the problem anyway. We *can* over-engineer something and actually create new problems or even fail to prevent the problems we planned for in the first place. I'm not sure that we're at that point, but I'm not sure if we have a better plan available to us either.

Well said. I agree with the engineer standpoint. Although I agree it would be best if flooding like that never happened again, there's only so much that can be done to prevent that within a certain price-point. Let it happen every 100 to 200 years and save us a couple billion, just for the relatively newly redeveloped section of the Old Market. I'd argue that it didn't even affect the "good" part of the OM.

[Omaha Cowboy]

Hmmm. Don’t know if I agree with his take. I agree that the storm was a “one or twice in a lifetime” event.. the rest has me scratching my head a bit …

Ciao..LiO…Peace

There's a point of diminishing returns in any infrastructure investment. I'm not certain that we've been making *active* decisions about what our infrastructure should look like, instead, I think a lot of it has kinda been on autopilot. But if we gathered up all the residents of the city and let them vote on "levels" of infrastructure based on expected frequency of failure, I'm guessing most of the city would pick the lowest-cost option most of the time. So in some sense, we're always going to plan for an x-year flood, where x is a function of our comfort level and available budget.

Side note: the worst possible thing we could do is plan for 1,000-year floods and then fundamentally misunderstand the problem anyway. We *can* over-engineer something and actually create new problems or even fail to prevent the problems we planned for in the first place. I'm not sure that we're at that point, but I'm not sure if we have a better plan available to us either.

What I take from his comment is that a storm such as the one Saturday night is so rare, a “once or twice in a lifetime” event- and due to its rare intensity, we should stand pat, status quo..Because the over the top cost to improve the infrastructure would be too much..and I agree with your comment- if given the option in a vote- citizens would choose the least expensive, not necessarily the best, level option..

This said, I do hope the city takes that close look into this extreme event Saturday as they’ve indicated they’ll do; and hopefully see if certain “tweaks” couldn’t be put in place to our system (whatever they may be) in the core to ease the burden a bit..I’d say at this point, that’d be fair to ask…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[riceweb]

What I take from his comment is that a storm such as the one Saturday night is so rare, a “once or twice in a lifetime” event- and due to its rare intensity, we should stand pat, status quo..Because the over the top cost to improve the infrastructure would be too much..and I agree with your comment- if given the option in a vote- citizens would choose the least expensive, not necessarily the best, level option..

This said, I do hope the city takes that close look into this extreme event Saturday as they’ve indicated they’ll do; and hopefully see if certain “tweaks” couldn’t be put in place to our system (whatever they may be) in the core to ease the burden a bit..I’d say at this point, that’d be fair to ask…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

I'm not sure what's right. There's definitely diminishing returns on investment at a certain point, and it's possible to spend a ton of money and make no measurable improvement. If the city is saying that we have an adequate level of safety, I'd typically trust their judgment.

But the flooding the other night was extremely dangerous. Dozens could have died. Imagine if that level of flooding occurred right as school was getting out. Kids could have been swept away by currents very easily. What if it happened right as a CWS game was getting out and fans poured into the Old Market? So I agree we should revisit the conversation. We should try to remove such serious risks as much as possible.

[Omaha Cowboy]

What I take from his comment is that a storm such as the one Saturday night is so rare, a “once or twice in a lifetime” event- and due to its rare intensity, we should stand pat, status quo..Because the over the top cost to improve the infrastructure would be too much..and I agree with your comment- if given the option in a vote- citizens would choose the least expensive, not necessarily the best, level option..

This said, I do hope the city takes that close look into this extreme event Saturday as they’ve indicated they’ll do; and hopefully see if certain “tweaks” couldn’t be put in place to our system (whatever they may be) in the core to ease the burden a bit..I’d say at this point, that’d be fair to ask…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

I'm not sure what's right. There's definitely diminishing returns on investment at a certain point, and it's possible to spend a ton of money and make no measurable improvement. If the city is saying that we have an adequate level of safety, I'd typically trust their judgment.

But the flooding the other night was extremely dangerous. Dozens could have died. Imagine if that level of flooding occurred right as school was getting out. Kids could have been swept away by currents very easily. What if it happened right as a CWS game was getting out and fans poured into the Old Market? So I agree we should revisit the conversation. We should try to remove such serious risks as much as possible.

Absolutely..

You’re at exactly where I am regarding this situation at present.. And as you and I have intimated, we as a community were extremely fortunate people weren’t killed or seriously injured..it was a horribly dangerous and completely unexpected event…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[Busguy2010]

I'm honestly surprised there wasn't more injury and damage, considering it was a peak season Saturday night in the OM. Intoxicated adults are not much better than excited children. Luckily there's not much kid stuff going on in the OM. Nearest school is at 20th and St Mary's, way up on the hill and well out of harm's way. I think there is a reason SOMA hasn't gained a lot of traction over time, and it's elevation may have to do with it, as shown over the weekend.

[stormchaser]

Storms are possible late tonight in the Omaha area (though most of the risk is probably going to be just south of town and into southeast NE).

Storms should develop near Omaha or just south of Omaha sometime after 10 PM (with the majority developing after midnight). These storms will likely develop along an east/west boundary in the area so exactly where this boundary ends up will determine if Omaha gets hit or not (it's close enough it's hard to say for sure - especially on the south side of town).

Hail/wind and heavy rain will be the main threat with the stronger storms as they develop and move south/southeasterly - especially as you get into the Falls City area where a few severe warned storms are more likely.

Here is an animated simulated radar loop from the 12z HRRR forecast model starting around 10 PM and ending around 6 AM. The Kansas City area in particular looks to see some potential flooding if this model run verifies as shown...

[Busguy2010]

FINALLY after today will be relief in multiple ways. Lower temperatures, lower dew points, and maybe that stinkin smoke will be gone too. Still not quite down to what I'm seeking, but anything will feel better after this annoying hot stretch. Will be the first time in like a week that the dew point will not get well above 70. Tomorrow should feel amazing at like 57.

[Busguy2010]

Could be a rumble of thunder or two, but I'm not counting on it being very entertaining for us in Omaha. Pretty close though, if it was during the day and I didn't work, it would be a good opportunity to get out.

[stormchaser]

Looks/feels like the boundary has pushed through Omaha already so nearly zero chance anything will develop locally now and should all be well south of town. Oh well…

[Busguy2010]

Looks/feels like the boundary has pushed through Omaha already so nearly zero chance anything will develop locally now and should all be well south of town. Oh well…

I thought it felt significantly less humid out by now.

[stormchaser]

Next chance for strong/severe storms in the Omaha area will be this coming Thursday or Friday as a cold front pushes through the area. It will depend on timing though with the GFS bringing a cold front through about 24 hours faster than the ECMWF - so model trends will need to be watched as we get closer to determine which day will be our primary risk day.

Something to be aware of anyway

[GetUrban]

That was some pretty decent summer weather we had the last few days with the lower humidity/ dew points. The sun seemed more intense without all of the smoke in the air too. My grass could use some rain again soon though.

[Busguy2010]

Yeah, pretty decent. Good to hear there will be another cold front coming in, despite it being pleasant enough out. Mid 80s is still a bit warm for my liking. It's been the low humidity that has made it. Dew point is definitely getting back up there into the uncomfortable zone, looks like that cold front probably won't be that effective in that regard. As of right now, looks like the whole weekend could be a washout.

[joleo]

https://www.dsm.city/news_detail_T2_R132.php

Des Moines has been on a tear with storm water improvements all based off the 2018 flooding where the area got 6-9 inches of rain in just a few hours.

Spending 145 million over 6 years because of the 2018 flooding.

I wonder if the Omaha flooding is prompting a similar approach?

As a FYI...living in Des Moines, there is storm sewer construction everywhere you turn and roads are closed all over the place. When a road gets redone, they now are doing extensive storm sewer work as well, I was told basically the entire city isn't built to current storm sewer standards and will eventually be redone as roads need to be repaved unless it is a very pressing issue and those are redone on their own.