Stokes - Old Market (12th and Howard) - CLOSED

[DTO Luv]

City Limit is now in part of the old Homers space; Homer's took up a spot vacated by It Flys. Stokes is expanding into where City Limit used to be, so kinda yeah this does decrease the amount of draws in the Old Market. Like Globochem said, it may be good for Stokes but not the Old Market. I think the health of the OM should supersede that of any private business.

[Brad]

Party rooms are a huge business for restaurants. I don't think sprawling is the correct term. Besides, that bay where City Limits finally moved too sat empty for a couple years and half of it is still empty.

Besides Stokes having a party room gives people more opportunities to come to the old market to have their party.

Also, someone mentioned the party room sitting empty most of the week, the party room at 114th and Dodge is used for regular seating when there is not a party using it.

[DTO Luv]

Party rooms are a huge business for restaurants. I don't think sprawling is the correct term. Besides, that bay where City Limits finally moved too sat empty for a couple years and half of it is still empty.

Besides Stokes having a party room gives people more opportunities to come to the old market to have their party.

Also, someone mentioned the party room sitting empty most of the week, the party room at 114th and Dodge is used for regular seating when there is not a party using it.

You're flat out wrong on that part. City Limit moved to where Homer's was, that hasn't been vacant for years. Also, wasn't there a rumor about the unused half of the old Homer's being an apartment office? Some kind of office?

Also I don't know that people who are specifically going to Stoke's party room (or anyone's party room DT for that matter) are going to be anywhere but the party room. That's not to say that some people won't but I don't see it working how you say.

Another point you seem to miss out on is that this isn't some random DT block. It's right on our cities main attraction. That said, I think there should be more attractions. I'm not saying that I don't think it should be a restaurant or party room: I don't think it should be part of Stokes.

[Brad]

Party rooms are a huge business for restaurants. I don't think sprawling is the correct term. Besides, that bay where City Limits finally moved too sat empty for a couple years and half of it is still empty.

You're flat out wrong on that part. City Limit moved to where Homer's was, that hasn't been vacant for years. Also, wasn't there a rumor about the unused half of the old Homer's being an apartment office? Some kind of office?

Homers moved in August 2009, in two months that will be a couple of years...

I am not saying I don't want more diversity, but I feel that people are automatically putting down a business that remodeled a building that was a mess a couple years ago and rejuvenated a very important corner in our city.

I am all for expanding the offerings in the old market, but I am also for award winning local businesses seeing their full potential.

Also, if the old market gets 100% rented, that's just going to push ahead future projects like the giant hole on 12th street.

[DTO Luv]

I didn't realize it was that long ago Homer's moved. It seems more recent to me.

I think Stokes has done a great job but this isn't so much a critique on Stokes as it is another powers-that-be rant. I don't think anyone wants another "Scaffolding Museum" like the Iler Building was (empty for years). That said, I don't think it's in the best interest of the OM in this case.

Maybe this hits on a bigger problem too. No one want's to see the OM have empty storefronts or vacant lots but what is being done to remedy those problems. Yes to you this may be something as simple as a restaurant expanding but this is Downtown and things have larger implications here on there surroundings.

[Brad]

Time flies! I can't wait until that hole on 12th is gone and we start seeing development of the Fairmount building!

[Coyote]

I agree that this is good for Stokes but bad for what we all want the Old Market to be. During the College World Series 300,000 people are just going to walk past Stokes banquet room, instead of dropping in to see a variety store's goods.

[derog]

I agree that this is good for Stokes but bad for what we all want the Old Market to be. During the College World Series 300,000 people are just going to walk past Stokes banquet room, instead of dropping in to see a variety store's goods.

But the variety store is still around.

Guys, there is a ton of open space in the Old Market right now, stuff that has sat empty for years. Stokes took an empty space and made something with it. If another store wanted to open downtown:

-The other half of the Old Homers (empty nearly two years).
-The other half of the old Cactus Cafe (taken by Roja? - empty multiple years).
-The old Antiquarium bookstore (empty nearly two years).
-The basement and first floor of the building on the SW corner of 12th and Harney, which has been empty since I moved to Omaha six years ago. Thousands and thousands of square feet empty.
-The entire first floor of the Old Market Place, which could probably house two businesses if partitioned, also empty since they finished redevelopment on that building.
(Someone also mentioned Irie might be closed. I have no idea if it is or not.)

And that's just what's built and ready to go. This doesn't include the giant hole on the NW corner of 12th and Jackson, and entire quarter of a block that has been empty three+ years. If there was demand for it, the parking lots on the east side of 11th between Howard and Farnam could be developed with new construction.

My point is that Stokes saw fit to use probably 5% of the empty, ready to move in space in the Old Market, directly adjacent to their restaurant, and people here do not like it. How is this not a good thing?

[DTO Luv]

I agree that this is good for Stokes but bad for what we all want the Old Market to be. During the College World Series 300,000 people are just going to walk past Stokes banquet room, instead of dropping in to see a variety store's goods.

But the variety store is still around.

Guys, there is a ton of open space in the Old Market right now, stuff that has sat empty for years. Stokes took an empty space and made something with it. If another store wanted to open downtown:

-The other half of the Old Homers (empty nearly two years).
-The other half of the old Cactus Cafe (taken by Roja? - empty multiple years).
-The old Antiquarium bookstore (empty nearly two years).
-The basement and first floor of the building on the SW corner of 12th and Harney, which has been empty since I moved to Omaha six years ago. Thousands and thousands of square feet empty.
-The entire first floor of the Old Market Place, which could probably house two businesses if partitioned, also empty since they finished redevelopment on that building.
(Someone also mentioned Irie might be closed. I have no idea if it is or not.)

And that's just what's built and ready to go. This doesn't include the giant hole on the NW corner of 12th and Jackson, and entire quarter of a block that has been empty three+ years. If there was demand for it, the parking lots on the east side of 11th between Howard and Farnam could be developed with new construction.

My point is that Stokes saw fit to use probably 5% of the empty, ready to move in space in the Old Market, directly adjacent to their restaurant, and people here do not like it. How is this not a good thing?

You're right that there is a lot of empty space in and around the Old Market but this spot was previously in use by another businesses and now is not. In a way it's more of the same "urban renewal" that Omaha is terrible at: tear down something that has multiple uses and replace it with fewer uses. It is sprawling the Old Market. In Downtowns, the distance to door-to-door is more a kin to block-to-block in other places. It's the function of the area its in.

Another reason I'm unhappy with this is because with all of the dead space in the OM this doesn't encourage small places to come in. If fewer places coming into the Old Market can find a way to make the smaller sq ft bays work, then they are going to continue to be gobbled up by the places that can afford it. While this sounds good on paper it does nothing to enhance the character of the OM. It's likelier to leave the future of the Old Market in the hands of chains. Chains are less likely to go into the typical (classic) long, skinny Old Market interior look. Stokes did move into a space that it has greatly enhanced, yet this party room expansion is a step in the wrong direction.

Also using the too-much-space argument, if there are less things in close proximity, that makes people less likely to venture further. This is basically at the core of the OM and a block to the west of here the OM effectively ends, as does the flow of Old Market store fronts. Remember, door-to-door distance DT= block-to-block elsewhere, so less things along that already short walk on Howard St hinders people from venturing outside of that 4 block area. It's already a problem and this compounds it, even if it does seem trivial.

[Globochem]

I think the thing worth bemoaning here is the lack of creativity or entrepreneurship to find better use of the space. Or any of the empty Old Market spaces. The issue here is dreaming of a better Old Market. There are really few reasonably sized bays, and there is a tremendous dearth of neighborhood type services that could fill them. It just seems a bit redundant to gobble up more and more store frontage for what...more Stokes? Or more whatever? The Spaghetti Works has almost Deathstar-like square footage. Upstream too. Not sure that a better Old Market has fewer bigger spaces. I think more of really vibrant city neighborhoods chock-full of interesting small boutiques and restaurants (not to mention with a number of important neighborhood specific services thrown in). Think of Haight Ashbury, Wicker Park, Soho, etc.

[ricko]

I hope the Old Market doesn't follow the same type of evolution that SoHo and Haight/Ashbury did. I remember both neighborhoods before and after 'gentrification'. Nothing wrong with turning a neighborhood around, but I think sometimes it's taken to an extreme and the neighborhood loses its original/quirky vibe. SoHo, for example, went from "artist enclave' to 'playground for the Lamborghini set' in a couple of decades. I'd rather hang out on South 24th than in a neighborhood with overpriced restaurants, high end retail chains, and untouchable real estate. Very nice, but reeeeeeeealy boring.

[NEDodger]

Stokes to shut its Old Market location:

https://www.ketv.com/article/stokes-in ... e/41716298

[skinzfan23]

I had never been there, but when I worked downtown about 5-10 years ago it looked good. Although reading the comments on Facebook, sounds like most restaurants that fail lately. Staff shortage and things went downhill in a hurry.

[ItsAllAboutMe]

https://omaha.com/dining/stokes-in-the- ... -top-story

[NEDodger]

I’d only been to the one out west, but I wasn’t a fan. It’s a great location in the Old Market, so I can’t imagine it will be empty for long.

[nativeomahan]

This was very sad news for me, as we really liked both the food and atmosphere at the OM location. Their house margaritas are a thing of joy, too.
It’s been a really tough year in the Omaha restaurant world.

[ChadJK]

It’s been a really tough year in the Omaha restaurant world.

It's crazy how the lack of employees is putting restaurants out of business. It just seems to start this death spiral. Short-staffed results in poorer service and overworked staff, which results in unhappy customers and unhappy employees, which results in fewer customers and fewer employees, so they're "scraping the bottom of the barrel" and hiring people they would previously have never considered and paying them more, so they raise prices, customers are paying more for worse service and food, and round and round it goes until they throw their arms up and close their doors for good.

[djc311]

It’s been a really tough year in the Omaha restaurant world.

It's crazy how the lack of employees is putting restaurants out of business. It just seems to start this death spiral. Short-staffed results in poorer service and overworked staff, which results in unhappy customers and unhappy employees, which results in fewer customers and fewer employees, so they "scraping the bottom of the barrel" and hiring people they would previously have never considered and paying them more, so they raise prices, customers are paying more for worse service and food, and round it round it goes until they throw their arms up and close their doors for good.

I completely agree - we've lost A LOT of great restaurants in the Omaha area over the past 1-2 years. Of course off the top of my head I can't think of many, but Lo Sole Mio comes to mind (which I know has been bought and will re-open, but unfortunately the odds of it staying open are pretty slim).

But how do you fix it? Higher wages haven't seemed to help - owners are getting tired and frustrated.

I think it's time for robots to prepare meals.

[swgiust]

Stop paying people to not work. Find the World Herald article from a year ago. When Rickerts stopped the federal extra unemployment program. It was one of SEVEN programs that are still giving people free money.

[nativeomahan]

Well there is no one easy answer. I have good friends in México that work hard and would absolutely be great employees at restaurants or any other business here in the US, but our government makes it necessary for Mexican citizens to have a Visa on top of a passport to even enter the US, for work or school or even to visit family or vacation. Visas are expensive and cumbersome to obtain, Our lack of workers would be greatly helped if the US would relax its travel, work and immigration policies.

[ricko]

Well there is no one easy answer. I have good friends in México that work hard and would absolutely be great employees at restaurants or any other business here in the US, but our government makes it necessary for Mexican citizens to have a Visa on top of a passport to even enter the US, for work or school or even to visit family or vacation. Visas are expensive and cumbersome to obtain, Our lack of workers would be greatly helped if the US would relax its travel, work and immigration policies.

Where I live, hotel, restaurant, retail, cabbies, and construction work have been, and still are, staffed largely by various immigrant communities, but we’re having the same issues here. The solution is easy, the politics, not so much.

[nativeomahan]

Yes I ate at a full service Omaha restaurant yesterday and 100% of the employees spoke Spanish, unless they were directly speaking to non Hispanic customers. (They seemed appreciative when I spoke to them in my Spanglish.)

[almighty_tuna]

The Stokes space is now listed as available for rent