Omaha Streetcar Discussion

[ita]

Buffett is an expert in many things, but in this arena, everyone needs to take his advice with a grain of salt. The way OWH reported it was like he was some kind of expert in the field. Of course, there are multiple sides to this project, but for the future vitality of the urban core, and the possibility of getting some major projects done, the streetcar is necessary. Both the MoO HQ and UNMC NExT are mostly no-go's without the streetcar.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

I concur with the comments so far. He's a little out of his element on this one and of course as someone whose thing is frugality, he's going to see this as a waste.

As a transportation planner, I certainly don't know much about investing, much less how to make billions of dollars from it.

[BRoss]

Has anyone asked what Ja thinks? That's who I'm really waiting to hear from on this.

[Bob from Omaha]

I understand his reasoning. On the other hand, he's 91 and seriously unaware of today's trends.
On a side note I couldn't help but think, while reading him asking who in the suburbs would ride this, about the comments in the owh when the convention center/arena was proposed. "Who would bring a convention to Omaha?", "It'll be a huge financial burden", "A white elephant", on and on.
The bottom line is that yes Buffett is entitled to his opinion but in all likelihood he hasn't been in on every discussion regarding the streetcar idea. In my opinion he might say he's a proud Nebraskan and Omahan he rarely gets involved in local business and local doings. I have no beef with him but over the years it's been an extremely rare occasion when one of Berk's subsidiaries expanded in Omaha. GEICO, etc. It's funny. GEICO expanded into Buffalo, not Omaha.

[stadsborgare]

I turned my cousin onto the ORBT bus, after showing him how convenient it is to use if he wants to go downtown. Before that, he wouldn't ever "stoop so low" as to ride a bus. Now he uses ORBT like he thought of the whole idea himself.

He will use the streetcar regularly, you can count on that. When people find out how conveniently they can get around with it, they'll surely change their stubborn attitudes. In time...

[Athomsfere]

I have a sort of working theory with why a Buffet would not trust the streetcar:

When he was born, the Omaha streetcar was still vibrant. But he lived through the worst of redlining and white flight. He then saw the daily riderships plummet, the street cars all stop, and the rail sit in the roads for however many years until finally the steel was covered. He's watched 70 years of suburban sprawl, and that's likely all he thinks Omaha can do.

He doesn't see that we can do better. That many of us want to do better. And most importantly we need to do better for the next 70 years than his generation did for our cities.

[S.O.Boy]

Maybe Mr. Buffet is looking at the bang for your buck. You can either have a 30 block streetcar that MoO wants or a city wide ORBT system.

[Stargazer]

Pray no element of this project ever depends on a public referendum.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a Stothert recall effort spurred from this.

[OmahaFan]

A Recall effort will be called upon if MUD or OPPD starts jacking up the rates and use the project as an excuse. She’s putting all her eggs in this one basket. The buses are hardly full anyways what makes anyone thing the Street car would be any different? Not to mention the homeless people would constantly be in the streetcars trying to seek shelter from the elements.

[OmahaFan]

This is a very risky project for Omaha and politically speaking for the Mayor.

[S.O.Boy]

This is a very risky project for Omaha and politically speaking for the Mayor.

The mayor doesn't care. I don't think she will run again in 2025.

[ita]

Is it really a risky move by the mayor? She's been sitting on getting the streetcar going since the start of her 2nd term, at least. She waited until the Chamber came up with a financing plan where citizens didn't have to vote on it and at least two major projects, totalling $3.5 billion, that are hinged on the streetcar. while I have been critical of many of her decisions, particularly in pedestrian and transit infrastructure, seems like she backed the streetcar with as low risk to her legacy as possible, with huge upside.

[GetUrban]

Maybe Mr. Buffet is looking at the bang for your buck. You can either have a 30 block streetcar that MoO wants or a city wide ORBT system.

It takes a degree of urban density to make bus rapid transit work. Omaha generally is too spread out, unless you can convince people to drive or walk to transit hubs to get on a bus. Buffet means well but he’s never been a brick & mortar guy but prefers to snowball his paper wealth rather than use it to build anything tangible. That’s not to say that others who have gone along with him for the ride won’t use their wealth to actually build something.

[skinzfan23]

He also said the Greta outlet mall would fail..

Wonder what his thoughts were on Qwest Center when it was built.

[djc311]

Buffett is an expert in many things, but in this arena, everyone needs to take his advice with a grain of salt. The way OWH reported it was like he was some kind of expert in the field. Of course, there are multiple sides to this project, but for the future vitality of the urban core, and the possibility of getting some major projects done, the streetcar is necessary. Both the MoO HQ and UNMC NExT are mostly no-go's without the streetcar.

I haven't said much about the streetcar project as I won't personally be utilizing it much, if at all. However, I've never thought of it as a bad idea. I think there's a lot of potential value and benefits that could come from this after it's up and running in the area.

Buffett owns the paper (or at least he did at one time) so I suppose as the "boss" you can have an article in your paper whenever you damn feel like it.

He's always been thrifty/frugal/whatever you want to call it and many give him credit for being so rich because of that characteristic. It's funny to think of him in that way due to his substantial wealth and knowing how all the crazy Buffett-wannabes are when they come into town for the shareholder meeting. I'd say a very good majority of them certainly don't share his thriftiness and definitely prefer to flaunt their wealth.

Going back to the streetcar/Buffett - just because he's uber rich doesn't make him an expert on public transportation - or any transportation for that matter. Regardless of his age (as I don't feel that it should particularly matter if he's 92 or 62 in this case), he doesn't know everything about how this will work and the impact it may have. He also drinks 5 cans of diet Coke a day (with artificial sweeteners) - doesn't make him an expert on all things soda, either.

This kinda reminds me of another story about his partner, Charlie Munger and that dumb dorm he's involved in out in California. I never thought of Buffett as an arrogant, power-hungry billionaire, but Munger definitely has a god complex when it comes to that project. ONLY HE can design it and the university will only get the investment if it's done how HE wants it done. Just because these guys have gobs of money doesn't make them experts in everything imaginable. As a matter of fact I find it quite amusing that nearly any story you read on Munger's dorm project he's called out as an "amateur architect" or even "a non-architect". It may be off topic, but he shouldn't be involved in the design process whatsoever. Unfortunately the school thinks otherwise because they only want the building. I was happy to read their local govt is putting a halt to the building for now while they perform more studies. Who wants to live in a building with no windows with 4000 other students? It's straight up stupid and almost reminds me of something you'd read about in "1984".

Stothert is not always on the same page as everyone else in this city, and I agree with many things she's done and also disagree with others. I'm glad she stood her ground even though she met with Buffett (again, I guess if you're a billionaire in Omaha you're entitled to meet with the mayor to discuss public transportation projects even if you're not personally involved).

[Athomsfere]

Maybe Mr. Buffet is looking at the bang for your buck. You can either have a 30 block streetcar that MoO wants or a city wide ORBT system.

It takes a degree of urban density to make bus rapid transit work. Omaha generally is too spread out, unless you can convince people to drive or walk to transit hubs to get on a bus. Buffet means well but he’s never been a brick & mortar guy but prefers to snowball his paper wealth rather than use it to build anything tangible. That’s not to say that others who have gone along with him for the ride won’t use their wealth to actually build something.

I still disagree with this.

LRT can be cheaper over the life of the system for one thing. But also, of course our density sucks when the only transit that has any infrastructure is for the car. We can use BRT and LRT to fix our backwards cities.

[NEDodger]

To be fair, there have been some transportation experts who came out against this for Omaha as well.

The system is getting done - no argument there.

If this is a success and we have mid/high-rises along Farnam….every proponent has the right to say “I told you so!”.

HOWEVER, if this thing is a bust - nil ridership, maybe a building or two past the Mutual high rise, taxes needed to supplement - it’s only fair for the backers to also have to eat crow on this. No “wellllll, it gave us the Mutual building!” No, this is not worth it for just one high-rise if the rest is a bust.

[ita]

To be fair, there have been some transportation experts who came out against this for Omaha as well.

The system is getting done - no argument there.

If this is a success and we have mid/high-rises along Farnam….every proponent has the right to say “I told you so!”.

HOWEVER, if this thing is a bust - nil ridership, maybe a building or two past the Mutual high rise, taxes needed to supplement - it’s only fair for the backers to also have to eat crow on this. No “wellllll, it gave us the Mutual building!” No, this is not worth it for just one high-rise if the rest is a bust.

By all accounts, MoO is one of two known projects specifically benefitting from the streetcar. The second, UNMC Next, is a >$2 billion project, with potentially 9k+ new jobs. UNMC doesn't have the space to build that much parking, hence needing the streetcar. I think if the streetcar were only supporting that project, the streetcar would be worth it, but that's just me.

[Omaha Cowboy]

Does anyone else find it curious that now, after the streetcar is pretty much a done deal, “The Oracle” is speaking against it?..

Where was Warren this past January when the project was announced opining about what a boondoggle the streetcar plan is? Why didn’t he meet with the mayor 11 months ago to express his “concerns”? Instead, he meets with her this past Wednesday?..

Lol..

Classic “after the fact” Red Herring. A load of BS a la mode…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[Jins123]

He also said the Greta outlet mall would fail..

Wonder what his thoughts were on Qwest Center when it was built.

And the pedestrian bridge

[NEDodger]

To be fair, there have been some transportation experts who came out against this for Omaha as well.

The system is getting done - no argument there.

If this is a success and we have mid/high-rises along Farnam….every proponent has the right to say “I told you so!”.

HOWEVER, if this thing is a bust - nil ridership, maybe a building or two past the Mutual high rise, taxes needed to supplement - it’s only fair for the backers to also have to eat crow on this. No “wellllll, it gave us the Mutual building!” No, this is not worth it for just one high-rise if the rest is a bust.

By all accounts, MoO is one of two known projects specifically benefitting from the streetcar. The second, UNMC Next, is a >$2 billion project, with potentially 9k+ new jobs. UNMC doesn't have the space to build that much parking, hence needing the streetcar. I think if the streetcar were only supporting that project, the streetcar would be worth it, but that's just me.

Project Next has nothing to do with the streetcar, though. That’s a federal grant based off of the work UNMC has done. It’s coming whether we have a streetcar or not, so we can’t count that as a benefit based off us having a streetcar.

[Garrett]

To be fair, there have been some transportation experts who came out against this for Omaha as well.

The system is getting done - no argument there.

If this is a success and we have mid/high-rises along Farnam….every proponent has the right to say “I told you so!”.

HOWEVER, if this thing is a bust - nil ridership, maybe a building or two past the Mutual high rise, taxes needed to supplement - it’s only fair for the backers to also have to eat crow on this. No “wellllll, it gave us the Mutual building!” No, this is not worth it for just one high-rise if the rest is a bust.

By all accounts, MoO is one of two known projects specifically benefitting from the streetcar. The second, UNMC Next, is a >$2 billion project, with potentially 9k+ new jobs. UNMC doesn't have the space to build that much parking, hence needing the streetcar. I think if the streetcar were only supporting that project, the streetcar would be worth it, but that's just me.

Project Next has nothing to do with the streetcar, though. That’s a federal grant based off of the work UNMC has done. It’s coming whether we have a streetcar or not, so we can’t count that as a benefit based off us having a streetcar.

If UNMC doesn’t have to invest in nearly as many parking stalls because they can point to the streetcar as an option, isn’t that a fiscal win? Let’s say in theory that UNMC decides that because of the streetcar and other transit investments, they’ll only build 5,000 parking stalls instead of 9,000. At the current cost of a parking garage of a little over 25,000 per stall, that’s a savings of $100 million of taxpayer money, on one project. Parking gets radically expensive quickly, and I never see complaints on that.

[ita]

To be fair, there have been some transportation experts who came out against this for Omaha as well.

The system is getting done - no argument there.

If this is a success and we have mid/high-rises along Farnam….every proponent has the right to say “I told you so!”.

HOWEVER, if this thing is a bust - nil ridership, maybe a building or two past the Mutual high rise, taxes needed to supplement - it’s only fair for the backers to also have to eat crow on this. No “wellllll, it gave us the Mutual building!” No, this is not worth it for just one high-rise if the rest is a bust.

By all accounts, MoO is one of two known projects specifically benefitting from the streetcar. The second, UNMC Next, is a >$2 billion project, with potentially 9k+ new jobs. UNMC doesn't have the space to build that much parking, hence needing the streetcar. I think if the streetcar were only supporting that project, the streetcar would be worth it, but that's just me.

Project Next has nothing to do with the streetcar, though. That’s a federal grant based off of the work UNMC has done. It’s coming whether we have a streetcar or not, so we can’t count that as a benefit based off us having a streetcar.

If UNMC doesn’t have to invest in nearly as many parking stalls because they can point to the streetcar as an option, isn’t that a fiscal win? Let’s say in theory that UNMC decides that because of the streetcar and other transit investments, they’ll only build 5,000 parking stalls instead of 9,000. At the current cost of a parking garage of a little over 25,000 per stall, that’s a savings of $100 million of taxpayer money, on one project. Parking gets radically expensive quickly, and I never see complaints on that.

I would also add, for employees who will be able to use the streetcar, either living off it or utilizing the bus and streetcar, that's potential savings for them.

Additionally, UNMC does not have or does not want to use land near their campus for the several thousand parking spaces they can avoid building by having direct service by the streetcar. Even a 5k parking garage(s), takes up a ton of land. I have posted about this before to put it in perspective, but the massive 4 story parking garage at UNO's Aksarben campus is a measly 1,400 spaces. It's got like a 100 ft. x 500 ft. footprint. Just imagine UNMC having to find room for 6 parking garages with a similar footprint.

[NEDodger]

To be fair, there have been some transportation experts who came out against this for Omaha as well.

The system is getting done - no argument there.

If this is a success and we have mid/high-rises along Farnam….every proponent has the right to say “I told you so!”.

HOWEVER, if this thing is a bust - nil ridership, maybe a building or two past the Mutual high rise, taxes needed to supplement - it’s only fair for the backers to also have to eat crow on this. No “wellllll, it gave us the Mutual building!” No, this is not worth it for just one high-rise if the rest is a bust.

By all accounts, MoO is one of two known projects specifically benefitting from the streetcar. The second, UNMC Next, is a >$2 billion project, with potentially 9k+ new jobs. UNMC doesn't have the space to build that much parking, hence needing the streetcar. I think if the streetcar were only supporting that project, the streetcar would be worth it, but that's just me.

Project Next has nothing to do with the streetcar, though. That’s a federal grant based off of the work UNMC has done. It’s coming whether we have a streetcar or not, so we can’t count that as a benefit based off us having a streetcar.

If UNMC doesn’t have to invest in nearly as many parking stalls because they can point to the streetcar as an option, isn’t that a fiscal win? Let’s say in theory that UNMC decides that because of the streetcar and other transit investments, they’ll only build 5,000 parking stalls instead of 9,000. At the current cost of a parking garage of a little over 25,000 per stall, that’s a savings of $100 million of taxpayer money, on one project. Parking gets radically expensive quickly, and I never see complaints on that.

But I always hear is that this isn’t about transportation - it’s about spurring development. If we are saying the win is for a parking situation, then make this an ORBT line instead.

[NEDodger]

To be fair, there have been some transportation experts who came out against this for Omaha as well.

The system is getting done - no argument there.

If this is a success and we have mid/high-rises along Farnam….every proponent has the right to say “I told you so!”.

HOWEVER, if this thing is a bust - nil ridership, maybe a building or two past the Mutual high rise, taxes needed to supplement - it’s only fair for the backers to also have to eat crow on this. No “wellllll, it gave us the Mutual building!” No, this is not worth it for just one high-rise if the rest is a bust.

By all accounts, MoO is one of two known projects specifically benefitting from the streetcar. The second, UNMC Next, is a >$2 billion project, with potentially 9k+ new jobs. UNMC doesn't have the space to build that much parking, hence needing the streetcar. I think if the streetcar were only supporting that project, the streetcar would be worth it, but that's just me.

Project Next has nothing to do with the streetcar, though. That’s a federal grant based off of the work UNMC has done. It’s coming whether we have a streetcar or not, so we can’t count that as a benefit based off us having a streetcar.

If UNMC doesn’t have to invest in nearly as many parking stalls because they can point to the streetcar as an option, isn’t that a fiscal win? Let’s say in theory that UNMC decides that because of the streetcar and other transit investments, they’ll only build 5,000 parking stalls instead of 9,000. At the current cost of a parking garage of a little over 25,000 per stall, that’s a savings of $100 million of taxpayer money, on one project. Parking gets radically expensive quickly, and I never see complaints on that.

I would also add, for employees who will be able to use the streetcar, either living off it or utilizing the bus and streetcar, that's potential savings for them.

Additionally, UNMC does not have or does not want to use land near their campus for the several thousand parking spaces they can avoid building by having direct service by the streetcar. Even a 5k parking garage(s), takes up a ton of land. I have posted about this before to put it in perspective, but the massive 4 story parking garage at UNO's Aksarben campus is a measly 1,400 spaces. It's got like a 100 ft. x 500 ft. footprint. Just imagine UNMC having to find room for 6 parking garages with a similar footprint.

But again, this was not a “result” of the streetcar. We can’t say that this is spurred development due to the streetcar. It has bupkis to do with us getting Project Next.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

To be fair, there have been some transportation experts who came out against this for Omaha as well.

The system is getting done - no argument there.

If this is a success and we have mid/high-rises along Farnam….every proponent has the right to say “I told you so!”.

HOWEVER, if this thing is a bust - nil ridership, maybe a building or two past the Mutual high rise, taxes needed to supplement - it’s only fair for the backers to also have to eat crow on this. No “wellllll, it gave us the Mutual building!” No, this is not worth it for just one high-rise if the rest is a bust.

By all accounts, MoO is one of two known projects specifically benefitting from the streetcar. The second, UNMC Next, is a >$2 billion project, with potentially 9k+ new jobs. UNMC doesn't have the space to build that much parking, hence needing the streetcar. I think if the streetcar were only supporting that project, the streetcar would be worth it, but that's just me.

Project Next has nothing to do with the streetcar, though. That’s a federal grant based off of the work UNMC has done. It’s coming whether we have a streetcar or not, so we can’t count that as a benefit based off us having a streetcar.

If UNMC doesn’t have to invest in nearly as many parking stalls because they can point to the streetcar as an option, isn’t that a fiscal win? Let’s say in theory that UNMC decides that because of the streetcar and other transit investments, they’ll only build 5,000 parking stalls instead of 9,000. At the current cost of a parking garage of a little over 25,000 per stall, that’s a savings of $100 million of taxpayer money, on one project. Parking gets radically expensive quickly, and I never see complaints on that.

But I always hear is that this isn’t about transportation - it’s about spurring development. If we are saying the win is for a parking situation, then make this an ORBT line instead.

I believe someone clarified in the Buffett article that it will primarily be about economic development to start with transportation becoming more important as those (dense) developments are realized.

It will always be about transportation but the level at which transportation serves as a primary function will increase over time.

[nebport5]

To be fair, there have been some transportation experts who came out against this for Omaha as well.

The system is getting done - no argument there.

If this is a success and we have mid/high-rises along Farnam….every proponent has the right to say “I told you so!”.

HOWEVER, if this thing is a bust - nil ridership, maybe a building or two past the Mutual high rise, taxes needed to supplement - it’s only fair for the backers to also have to eat crow on this. No “wellllll, it gave us the Mutual building!” No, this is not worth it for just one high-rise if the rest is a bust.

By all accounts, MoO is one of two known projects specifically benefitting from the streetcar. The second, UNMC Next, is a >$2 billion project, with potentially 9k+ new jobs. UNMC doesn't have the space to build that much parking, hence needing the streetcar. I think if the streetcar were only supporting that project, the streetcar would be worth it, but that's just me.

Project Next has nothing to do with the streetcar, though. That’s a federal grant based off of the work UNMC has done. It’s coming whether we have a streetcar or not, so we can’t count that as a benefit based off us having a streetcar.

If UNMC doesn’t have to invest in nearly as many parking stalls because they can point to the streetcar as an option, isn’t that a fiscal win? Let’s say in theory that UNMC decides that because of the streetcar and other transit investments, they’ll only build 5,000 parking stalls instead of 9,000. At the current cost of a parking garage of a little over 25,000 per stall, that’s a savings of $100 million of taxpayer money, on one project. Parking gets radically expensive quickly, and I never see complaints on that.

I would also add, for employees who will be able to use the streetcar, either living off it or utilizing the bus and streetcar, that's potential savings for them.

Additionally, UNMC does not have or does not want to use land near their campus for the several thousand parking spaces they can avoid building by having direct service by the streetcar. Even a 5k parking garage(s), takes up a ton of land. I have posted about this before to put it in perspective, but the massive 4 story parking garage at UNO's Aksarben campus is a measly 1,400 spaces. It's got like a 100 ft. x 500 ft. footprint. Just imagine UNMC having to find room for 6 parking garages with a similar footprint.

But again, this was not a “result” of the streetcar. We can’t say that this is spurred development due to the streetcar. It has bupkis to do with us getting Project Next.

I think the point here is that Project NeXt and two corporate partners(UNMC & MoO) will give the streetcar a higher chance of success. I believe the streetcar is indeed about transportation for UNMC and Mutual. Furthermore, If the streetcar is indeed successful in creating significant development it will become more about transportation for more people than a tourist novelty. As for Orb, it's fine for transportation but how much development would you expect it to create?

[Athomsfere]

To be fair, there have been some transportation experts who came out against this for Omaha as well.

The system is getting done - no argument there.

If this is a success and we have mid/high-rises along Farnam….every proponent has the right to say “I told you so!”.

HOWEVER, if this thing is a bust - nil ridership, maybe a building or two past the Mutual high rise, taxes needed to supplement - it’s only fair for the backers to also have to eat crow on this. No “wellllll, it gave us the Mutual building!” No, this is not worth it for just one high-rise if the rest is a bust.

By all accounts, MoO is one of two known projects specifically benefitting from the streetcar. The second, UNMC Next, is a >$2 billion project, with potentially 9k+ new jobs. UNMC doesn't have the space to build that much parking, hence needing the streetcar. I think if the streetcar were only supporting that project, the streetcar would be worth it, but that's just me.

Project Next has nothing to do with the streetcar, though. That’s a federal grant based off of the work UNMC has done. It’s coming whether we have a streetcar or not, so we can’t count that as a benefit based off us having a streetcar.

If UNMC doesn’t have to invest in nearly as many parking stalls because they can point to the streetcar as an option, isn’t that a fiscal win? Let’s say in theory that UNMC decides that because of the streetcar and other transit investments, they’ll only build 5,000 parking stalls instead of 9,000. At the current cost of a parking garage of a little over 25,000 per stall, that’s a savings of $100 million of taxpayer money, on one project. Parking gets radically expensive quickly, and I never see complaints on that.

The chancellor of UNMC also said something a couple years ago, before the streetcar was announced. Essentially saying for Project NeXt to really succeed and attract top talent the street car was required. In part so that 42% of the core didn't remain useless parking lots.

[S.O.Boy]

I understand driving to Westroads and getting on an ORBT and going to MoO or UNMC. But if I am having to drive to mid town and ride the last mile on a streetcar. huh

[TitosBuritoBarn]

I understand driving to Westroads and getting on an ORBT and going to MoO or UNMC. But if I am having to drive to mid town and ride the last mile on a streetcar. huh

The Streetcar isn't supposed to have a park-and-ride component like ORBT, at least not the initial line. Its main focus is going to be local passengers in midtown and downtown. With regard to UNMC and MoO, it's expected that many employees and med students would choose to live along the Streetcar line and use it to get between home and work/school. The neighborhoods the streetcar serves could become truly car optional and that is desirable to many people.

[S.O.Boy]

I understand driving to Westroads and getting on an ORBT and going to MoO or UNMC. But if I am having to drive to mid town and ride the last mile on a streetcar. huh

The Streetcar isn't supposed to have a park-and-ride component like ORBT, at least not the initial line. Its main focus is going to be local passengers in midtown and downtown. With regard to UNMC and MoO, it's expected that many employees and med students would choose to live along the Streetcar line and use it to get between home and work/school. The neighborhoods the streetcar serves could become truly car optional and that is desirable to many people.

That makes even less sense to me. UNMC says they create over 9000 jobs, better start building many high density buildings like the one on Saddle Creek that is being fought. And is MoO expecting their employees to move?

[Garrett]

I understand driving to Westroads and getting on an ORBT and going to MoO or UNMC. But if I am having to drive to mid town and ride the last mile on a streetcar. huh

The Streetcar isn't supposed to have a park-and-ride component like ORBT, at least not the initial line. Its main focus is going to be local passengers in midtown and downtown. With regard to UNMC and MoO, it's expected that many employees and med students would choose to live along the Streetcar line and use it to get between home and work/school. The neighborhoods the streetcar serves could become truly car optional and that is desirable to many people.

That makes even less sense to me. UNMC says they create over 9000 jobs, better start building many high density buildings like the one on Saddle Creek that is being fought. And is MoO expecting their employees to move?

Ideally we’ll start getting a lot more buildings in the 10-12 story range like the one in eastern Blackstone that’s going up. There are a ton of empty and underused lots in western downtown and midtown that should experience buildings booms. Park and Ride lots are basically the worst thing you can do around transit stops honestly.

[Athomsfere]

Park and Ride lots are basically the worst thing you can do around transit stops honestly.

This really can't be stressed enough.

[S.O.Boy]

So a city of over half million should spend a third of a billion for about fifty thousand residents?


Every day this sounds more and more like Mike Boyle 16th street mall.

[S.O.Boy]

This helped me to understand

[bigredmed1]

I find Omaha's streetcar "debate" interesting in that the same people who just could not wait to jump on anyone opposed to the ORBT system are now not riding ORBT and have no answers for why it's user numbers are a fraction of what was proposed and are some of the loudest screaming voices opposed to use of expanded ORBT for this part of the city.

Honestly, if all you want to do is the proposed rail you have seen, the cheaper way to do it is to do what Orlando did to support the convention center and meeting hotels. They got some antique busses (from say the 1960's) and got them mechanically sound, then brought in artists to make them pretty. These busses orbit for free between the meeting area and a string of restaurants finally terminating in a market area where real busses to the rest of the city can be connected to.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

I find Omaha's streetcar "debate" interesting in that the same people who just could not wait to jump on anyone opposed to the ORBT system are now not riding ORBT and have no answers for why it's user numbers are a fraction of what was proposed and are some of the loudest screaming voices opposed to use of expanded ORBT for this part of the city.

I'm not aware of Orbt not meeting ridership projections. Everything seems to be going swimmingly enough. If they're not meeting projections, do you suppose the pandemic may have had something to do with it? Orbt began operation in 2020.

Honestly, if all you want to do is the proposed rail you have seen, the cheaper way to do it is to do what Orlando did to support the convention center and meeting hotels. They got some antique busses (from say the 1960's) and got them mechanically sound, then brought in artists to make them pretty. These busses orbit for free between the meeting area and a string of restaurants finally terminating in a market area where real busses to the rest of the city can be connected to.

The I-Drive Trolley is just a normal bus with flare, made to look like an old timey trolley, and it only serves tourists with no real purpose for residents. The Orbt line has been successful because of its BRT components, not because it's a normal bus masquerading as an old trolley. A streetcar typically has the same BRT components plus greater ridership capacity, it's sexier, and more permanent.

[bigredmed1]

300 million for 4 miles of sexier? This is the kind of thing that should have been put to a city wide vote. We could do this just as well with an expanded ORBT or regular bases. By using the Orlando system as a model, we could easily cover the route at a vastly lower cost.

[omahahawk]

Yes, putting it to a public vote is a valid sentiment and yes, Mr. Buffet's take on these plans are something to be noted. However, I can only say that based on the so many comments that I overheard New Years Eve downtown in the Mall that there has got to be some pretty pent up desire this thing to go forward in its full intent. It amazes me still that the Quest Center actually passed. I'm quite confident if everything had been put up to a public vote in the last 20 years we probably would have lost the CWS, we would not have had a beautiful and widely used pedestrian connection to Iowa, and we certainly would not have had these new parks downtown that very much seem to be turning naysayers into believers.

[Athomsfere]

Most people put zero percent of their life into understanding how cities, growth, commute patterns etc. work. But they over-estimate their competence in these topics based on intuition and gut feelings.

On the other end of the spectrum, we have city planners. Who spend so much time and energy learning as much as they can (usually at least) on a complex, combinatorial, organic system.

I am more than OK with not giving more power to the mob, over to the experts on something like this via a vote.