Civic Square (former Civic Auditorium)

nebport5 · Post by **nebport5** » Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:27 pm

Doctor Fate wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:11 pm
nebport5 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:59 pm
skip wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:33 pm
ita wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:47 pm Any guesses regarding changes to the plan? I am hoping for more units (I personally want upwards of 1000 units here), more height (maybe a couple 8+ story buildings), and some nice public spaces, like a pocket park and/or pedestrian plaza(s).
Exactly what I was thinking. Hoping for some mid-rises nearing 10 stories with plenty of residential. Originally, they were focusing on including a grocery store in this development - I wonder if that is still the case.
I'm not sure where you're getting that from? The last publicly announced design said nothing of grocery.
When Tetrad had this site, Hy-Vee was in talks for the development.

Developer Working to bring Hy-Vee to former Civic Auditorium Site

Yes, well we know how that turned out. But nothing since in the White Lotus era. Indeed, I'm sure we'd all welcome something comparable coming to fruition.

NewDoom · Post by **NewDoom** » Tue Mar 28, 2023 2:02 pm

At the YP Summit on Friday, in the streetcar Q&A session with the Mayor, she noted that the Civic site plan would be on the May Planning Board meeting agenda.

nebport5 · Post by **nebport5** » Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:26 pm

NewDoom wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 2:02 pm At the YP Summit on Friday, in the streetcar Q&A session with the Mayor, she noted that the Civic site plan would be on the May Planning Board meeting agenda.

The same was stated in the "state of the city" speech. Surely there'll be a media release before that where we can resume throwing tomatoes or hopefully applaud a smarter development. Given the history I'll continue to curb my enthusiasm. However, if I have some cautious optimism it's from Stothert on Grow Omaha stating "they are adding more roads" which may suggest possibly more height and at least less of a suburban campus feel.

riceweb · Post by **riceweb** » Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:44 pm

There's no need to overthink the Wallstreet Tower site or the Civic Square site. Just put in mid-rise (6-10 story) apartments with a few retail bays. Literally all we need to do. Build housing for thousands of people in these lots. Everything else will follow.

Doctor Fate · Post by **Doctor Fate** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:00 am

riceweb wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:44 pm There's no need to overthink the Wallstreet Tower site or the Civic Square site. Just put in mid-rise (6-10 story) apartments with a few retail bays. Literally all we need to do. Build housing for thousands of people in these lots. Everything else will follow.

This is what I am hoping for here. Ground floor retail, three 8-10 story residential buildings and one 15 story.

nebport5 · Post by **nebport5** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:22 am

Doctor Fate wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:00 am
riceweb wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:44 pm There's no need to overthink the Wallstreet Tower site or the Civic Square site. Just put in mid-rise (6-10 story) apartments with a few retail bays. Literally all we need to do. Build housing for thousands of people in these lots. Everything else will follow.
This is what I am hoping for here. Ground floor retail, three 8-10 story residential buildings and one 15 story.

There was a need, however, to rethink the existing proposal. I keep thinking about the RFP for a new police/fire headquarters that went out in October and wonder if that proposal may now be included here. I also wouldn't mind if the rumored 25 story tower came to fruition here over The Mercantile.

riceweb · Post by **riceweb** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:47 am

I guess I'm in the minority in just wanting 4-10 story buildings all over. Human scale development and all that. Make us like Barcelona

But that makes sense that they're still trying to fit the new city HQs here. Has anyone asked if those are still necessary in the remote work era? Surely even city officials are spending less time in office these days? Maybe we can rethink these plans a bit and focus our city dollars elsewhere.

ita · Post by **ita** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:15 am

riceweb wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:47 am I guess I'm in the minority in just wanting 4-10 story buildings all over. Human scale development and all that. Make us like Barcelona

But that makes sense that they're still trying to fit the new city HQs here. Has anyone asked if those are still necessary in the remote work era? Surely even city officials are spending less time in office these days? Maybe we can rethink these plans a bit and focus our city dollars elsewhere.

I am not in law enforcement, but I don't think you can reduce in office workers for police and fire departments that much. I thought I had read somewhere that dispatchers or the phone folks are not located at current policy HQ.

At least for the Civic Site, I agree with you, that up to 10 residential buildings would be great there. CFS structures or mass timber or some hybrid approach would be awesome.

I am still of the opinion that the Civic Site needs to be built with plans in mind for either taking down I-480 overpass or the 20th street exit, and the potential development that can occur. Alternatively, if I-480 remains, than incorporating public space under I-480 like sport courts, playgrounds, dog parks, skate parks, and trails, to allow maximum density in the Civic Site and adjacent developable properties.

Erik · Post by **Erik** » Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:21 pm

Adding residential density, ground floor retail, decent design would give me goosebumps.

No less than 6 floors, utilizing the lot to the fullest extent

Athomsfere · Post by **Athomsfere** » Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:22 am

riceweb wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:47 am I guess I'm in the minority in just wanting 4-10 story buildings all over. Human scale development and all that. Make us like Barcelona

But that makes sense that they're still trying to fit the new city HQs here. Has anyone asked if those are still necessary in the remote work era? Surely even city officials are spending less time in office these days? Maybe we can rethink these plans a bit and focus our city dollars elsewhere.

I wouldn't say the minority, exactly.

I'd love to see 80% of our detached SFH replaced with townhomes and condos in that range, tear out some of the weird street configs and replace with grids or similar...

But, it ain't gonna happen. So I'll take as many 5 over 1s and midrise / highrises that we can get to fill in the gaps.

riceweb · Post by **riceweb** » Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:46 am

Athomsfere wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:22 am I wouldn't say the minority, exactly.

I'm specifically referring to folks seemingly insisting that we place high-rise towers here or at WallStreet Tower location. I just ultimately do not see high-rise towers as necessary for creating vibrant urban neighborhoods.

So in the case of these two lots, I feel like our city leadership has been letting "better be the enemy of the good". The arguments have gone something like: "this is prime real estate, and we can't let an opportunity slip here", but there's no shortage of developable land within the 680 loop (even within North Downtown there's still no shortage of lots), so I don't see how these two lots specifically are so rare that we should leave them vacant for years and years.

We could already be in the "ROI" phase of these projects if we had been less selective. We could already have these lots filled completely, with thousands of residents contributing to the urban fabric, and we'd be shifting our conversation more toward the I-480 teardown and continued investment in North Downtown.

PWL73316 · Post by **PWL73316** » Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:08 am

I really don't think it's the case that the civic lot is empty because the city has been turning down good ideas to hunt for better ones. The ideas moving forward and pushed by the mayor's office in the past, including the current proposal, have all been mixed-use mid-rises, but you need a developer to actually raise the capital and follow-through to do it. That hasn't happened yet. It's not that the city is being too picky.

The current plan, which we haven't seen details of yet, broadly matches what you are saying they should be going for.

The city has been trying to get something in motion since they tore down the Civic in 2016-17, and even before that. They had a handshake agreement with a developer who failed to raise the money and buy the land. Not much they can do about that.

Athomsfere · Post by **Athomsfere** » Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:51 am

riceweb wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:46 am
Athomsfere wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:22 am I wouldn't say the minority, exactly.
I'm specifically referring to folks seemingly insisting that we place high-rise towers here or at WallStreet Tower location. I just ultimately do not see high-rise towers as necessary for creating vibrant urban neighborhoods.

So in the case of these two lots, I feel like our city leadership has been letting "better be the enemy of the good". The arguments have gone something like: "this is prime real estate, and we can't let an opportunity slip here", but there's no shortage of developable land within the 680 loop (even within North Downtown there's still no shortage of lots), so I don't see how these two lots specifically are so rare that we should leave them vacant for years and years.

We could already be in the "ROI" phase of these projects if we had been less selective. We could already have these lots filled completely, with thousands of residents contributing to the urban fabric, and we'd be shifting our conversation more toward the I-480 teardown and continued investment in North Downtown.

I'd say there is a perception in NA that a highrise, especially right downtown like this, means prosperity.

Just like Nike isn't going to take out a superbowl ad for their 6 month old geriatric shoes saying "The most okayest shoe yet, the Mall Walker 4251"

So while everything you said is true, IMO. There is an projection of success the right project at this location can / should have for the NA psyche.

nebport5 · Post by **nebport5** » Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:28 pm

PWL73316 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:08 am I really don't think it's the case that the civic lot is empty because the city has been turning down good ideas to hunt for better ones. The ideas moving forward and pushed by the mayor's office in the past, including the current proposal, have all been mixed-use mid-rises, but you need a developer to actually raise the capital and follow-through to do it. That hasn't happened yet. It's not that the city is being too picky.

The current plan, which we haven't seen details of yet, broadly matches what you are saying they should be going for.

The city has been trying to get something in motion since they tore down the Civic in 2016-17, and even before that. They had a handshake agreement with a developer who failed to raise the money and buy the land. Not much they can do about that.

Mostly, agree here. I certainly don't think the city has been overly picky. If we're faulting the city for anything it's for not encouraging a smarter urban development. The last proposal was certainly a downgrade in design. There are certainly challenges to developing four city blocks which is why I always advocated for the city and developer working together toward a long term plan in phases. I don't think there's anyone(save someone who's no longer posting here) advocating for the Civic site to become all high-rises/skyscrapers. If a mid-rise can be 5-12 stories that leaves quite a variance. I think many of us would like to see at least part of this development more toward the 10-12 stories or even something on the lower end of a high-rise (13-20) vs a mostly sprawling 5 over 1 suburban fortress. I have cautious optimism that the streetcar may have inspired the developer toward something more urban friendly, which again doesn't necessarily mean all high-rises.

Garrett · Post by **Garrett** » Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:35 pm

Ideally it'll be better designed than the Capitol District and make the lot more porous and accessible.

Athomsfere · Post by **Athomsfere** » Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:20 pm

Garrett wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:35 pm Ideally it'll be better designed than the Capitol District and make the lot more porous and accessible.

I've never heard it described as porous, but I like it.

ita · Post by **ita** » Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:48 am

riceweb wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:47 am I guess I'm in the minority in just wanting 4-10 story buildings all over. Human scale development and all that. Make us like Barcelona

But that makes sense that they're still trying to fit the new city HQs here. Has anyone asked if those are still necessary in the remote work era? Surely even city officials are spending less time in office these days? Maybe we can rethink these plans a bit and focus our city dollars elsewhere.

Another Grow Omaha quote:

The work-from-home era has ended for millions of U.S. employees, according to the Wall Street Journal. Some 72.5% of business establishments said their employees teleworked rarely or not at all last year. That figure climbed from 60.1% in 2021. The survey showed about 21 million more workers on-site full time in 2022, compared with the prior year.

I wouldn't say it's ended, more retracted, but we aren't all working from home and many employers including big tech and especially locally, still require at least some in person presence.

Post by **Brad** » Sun Apr 02, 2023 10:36 am

The work from home era will be over once the next recession drives up unemployment. Right now some employers are using it as a perk, to recruit employees, but once they don’t need that, it will be gone for the majority of companies.

stadsborgare · Post by **stadsborgare** » Sun Apr 02, 2023 11:35 am

Brad wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 10:36 am The work from home era will be over once the next recession drives up unemployment. Right now some employers are using it as a perk, to recruit employees, but once they don’t need that, it will be gone for the majority of companies.

Ironically, all the growing empty office space in major cities across the country, due in large part to this work from home trend, is leading to a looming crash in the commercial real estate market - which will be too big for many banks to handle, and we'll have our recession.

Doctor Fate · Post by **Doctor Fate** » Sun Apr 02, 2023 1:49 pm

Brad wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 10:36 am The work from home era will be over once the next recession drives up unemployment. Right now some employers are using it as a perk, to recruit employees, but once they don’t need that, it will be gone for the majority of companies.

I'm a developer at Zillow and we are fully remote company-wide, even in Seattle. There is no internal sign that this would change or would need to change if there was a recession. Zillow saves multiple tens of millions a year in rent, since going fully remote. Trimmed our HQ presence in the Russell Investments Tower is Seattle to 3 floors and did the same across the nation. When we need to collaborate, we've adapted to ways of doing it remotely and been successful and very productive. Multiple times a year we gather as a team or with business partners from other departments at one of the remaining offices nationwide.

Rich Barton, the CEO and co-founder, used to be very against any remote work because of the belief in the value of synergy and that remote workers would be less productive. He later sent out a company wide email saying he was wrong and apologizing, then adopting remote work as the company standard. This was done, not for recruiting, but because it aligns with the Zillow culture and values of being agile and flexible and willing to shift. The money saved now goes to cash reserves and a big boost in benefits and RSU/equity packages, as well as pay.

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:34 pm

I think remote work will be based on the industry. Very few tech companies will be returning to full time office schedules.

skinzfan23 · Post by **skinzfan23** » Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:44 pm

Louie wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:34 pm I think remote work will be based on the industry. Very few tech companies will be returning to full time office schedules.

Agree I work in a phone environment and very few companies will go back to the office full time for that when you can do the job working remote and saving on rent.

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Sun Apr 02, 2023 5:43 pm

skinzfan23 wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:44 pm
Louie wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:34 pm I think remote work will be based on the industry. Very few tech companies will be returning to full time office schedules.
Agree I work in a phone environment and very few companies will go back to the office full time for that when you can do the job working remote and saving on rent.

Bingo

Doctor Fate · Post by **Doctor Fate** » Sun Apr 02, 2023 6:24 pm

Louie wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:34 pm I think remote work will be based on the industry. Very few tech companies will be returning to full time office schedules.

Agree 100%. And tech companies are agile enough to adapt to remote working. Zillow's remote onboarding process was so much better and smoother than my previous employer (Zions Bancorp), where we had to travel to a separate building they were renting to soley do new hire and training stuff and then had to travel to the office to end the end before traveling back home.

Zillow had everything I needed sent to my house with clear instructions on how to be ready for the new hire stuff. And then the new hire stuff itself was seamless and well thought out to help me hit the ground running.

Post by **BRoss** » Sun Apr 02, 2023 8:34 pm

Brad wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 10:36 am The work from home era will be over once the next recession drives up unemployment. Right now some employers are using it as a perk, to recruit employees, but once they don’t need that, it will be gone for the majority of companies.

I really doubt that it ends for a lot of people. I had a chat with a higher up at my company a couple weeks ago and they indicated that there's no talks about ever ending it for tech. A lot of their top employees work better away from the distractions of the office and would leave pretty quickly, recession or not. I think they also realize more and more the mistake it was to go with open floor plans thinking it would increase collaboration. All it does is make it so you can never focus.

skip · Post by **skip** » Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:45 am

Getting closer and closer to that May Planning Board meeting agenda.... get hyped!

OmahaRedWing · Post by **OmahaRedWing** » Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:35 pm

skip wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:45 am Getting closer and closer to that May Planning Board meeting agenda.... get hyped!

I really hope it's heavy on residential.

ita · Post by **ita** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:13 am

OmahaRedWing wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:35 pm
skip wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:45 am Getting closer and closer to that May Planning Board meeting agenda.... get hyped!
I really hope it's heavy on residential.

Agreed. Holding off on getting too hyped because 1) White Lotus track record and 2) prior plans were very mediocre. But if Civic Site White Lotus 2.0 is worth something to get excited about, I will be as hyped as anyone.

TitosBuritoBarn · Post by **TitosBuritoBarn** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:28 am

ita wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:13 am
OmahaRedWing wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:35 pm
skip wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:45 am Getting closer and closer to that May Planning Board meeting agenda.... get hyped!
I really hope it's heavy on residential.
Agreed. Holding off on getting too hyped because 1) White Lotus track record and 2) prior plans were very mediocre. But if Civic Site White Lotus 2.0 is worth something to get excited about, I will be as hyped as anyone.

NPdodger told me via PM it's going to be a fancy hotel. This will be the third location. First two are in Hawaii and Sicily.

He also mentioned a preview of the hotel leaked on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2wj6lJ ... hannel=HBO

OmahaRedWing · Post by **OmahaRedWing** » Fri Apr 21, 2023 11:27 am

TitosBuritoBarn wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:28 am
ita wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:13 am
OmahaRedWing wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:35 pm
skip wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:45 am Getting closer and closer to that May Planning Board meeting agenda.... get hyped!
I really hope it's heavy on residential.
Agreed. Holding off on getting too hyped because 1) White Lotus track record and 2) prior plans were very mediocre. But if Civic Site White Lotus 2.0 is worth something to get excited about, I will be as hyped as anyone.
NPdodger told me via PM it's going to be a fancy hotel. This will be the third location. First two are in Hawaii and Sicily.

He also mentioned a preview of the hotel leaked on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2wj6lJ ... hannel=HBO

Just a single hotel on that site?

Stargazer · Post by **Stargazer** » Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:41 pm

OmahaRedWing wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 11:27 am
TitosBuritoBarn wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:28 am
ita wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:13 am
OmahaRedWing wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:35 pm
skip wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:45 am Getting closer and closer to that May Planning Board meeting agenda.... get hyped!
I really hope it's heavy on residential.
Agreed. Holding off on getting too hyped because 1) White Lotus track record and 2) prior plans were very mediocre. But if Civic Site White Lotus 2.0 is worth something to get excited about, I will be as hyped as anyone.
NPdodger told me via PM it's going to be a fancy hotel. This will be the third location. First two are in Hawaii and Sicily.

He also mentioned a preview of the hotel leaked on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2wj6lJ ... hannel=HBO
Just a single hotel on that site?

He's a few weeks behind (my wife loves to 'stay there' by the way)

Mjs5050ss · Post by **Mjs5050ss** » Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:17 pm

skip wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:45 am Getting closer and closer to that May Planning Board meeting agenda.... get hyped!

May of 2024?

https://experience.arcgis.com/experienc ... er-4%3A637

ita · Post by **ita** » Tue May 02, 2023 11:47 am

Do you think the City/Mayor/media will follow up on the Mayor's promise of the new Civic Site plan being discussed in the May planning board meeting?

Athomsfere · Post by **Athomsfere** » Tue May 02, 2023 12:17 pm

ita wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 11:47 am Do you think the City/Mayor/media will follow up on the Mayor's promise of the new Civic Site plan being discussed in the May planning board meeting?

I certainly hope so. We are too far in to not have anything newer, IMO.

Mjs5050ss · Post by **Mjs5050ss** » Tue May 02, 2023 12:32 pm

Could have the Palermo mess affected this timeline? Guessing the Mayor is trying to stay away from the press (like she does with the rest of the city).

You would think they would want some good PR though.

ita · Post by **ita** » Tue May 02, 2023 1:54 pm

Good point about the Palermo issue. I guess they may wait til that settles a bit before bringing the civic site up again. Though if she was confident enough in the new plan to disclose it being released in the state of the City address 6 weeks ago, I would hope we are getting it in June.

Habits76 · Post by **Habits76** » Thu May 11, 2023 1:33 pm

Plans to develop Omaha Civic Auditorium site, featuring grocery store, residential property

https://www.ketv.com/article/omaha-civi ... y/43866298

KETV.COM wrote:White Lotus Group introduced plans for the site, known as Civic Square, and said it includes "prioritizing the installation of a national grocer."

Linkin5 · Post by **Linkin5** » Thu May 11, 2023 1:46 pm

I know it’s a minor detail but I really like that arch that says Civic Square.

skinzfan23 · Post by **skinzfan23** » Thu May 11, 2023 1:57 pm

Overall the plan looks decent, but I wish there was a little more height, maybe 7-8 stories or at least one taller residential tower of 20 or more stories.

skip · Post by **skip** » Thu May 11, 2023 1:59 pm

Big fan of focusing on residential and creating a walkable community. And a large wellness center like that will be heavily utilized downtown. Smart location for the national grocer right next to the parking garage, so it will attract more east Omahans to drive there if needed.

All in all, very pleased with the plans. Wish the buildings were ranging from like 6-10 stories, but you can't win them all.