Urban Grocery Store

[blankblankblank]

Anyone think this might be apart what was announced at 15th and Farnam? One of those urban grocery stores that also has small restaurant/bar space? Guy said it was beneficial to both nearby residents and the office workers.

[ita]

Anyone think this might be apart what was announced at 15th and Farnam? One of those urban grocery stores that also has small restaurant/bar space? Guy said it was beneficial to both nearby residents and the office workers.

I just looked back at the last article about the Trio Project you're referring to. The commercial space available at the project is about 8k square feet. That's not enough for a full-service grocery store. Maybe a bodega with a small kitchen or something? I don't know.

[Doctor Fate]

On Grow Omaha, as others have mentioned in different threads, the Mayor said that downtown Omaha had surpassed the key indicators needed for a downtown grocer. She also mentioned that there were several potential projects that were looking at having a grocer, including the Civic site.

[Athomsfere]

On Grow Omaha, as others have mentioned in different threads, the Mayor said that downtown Omaha had surpassed the key indicators needed for a downtown grocer. She also mentioned that there were several potential projects that were looking at having a grocer, including the Civic site.

I know this forum has beat the idea to death, but can you imagine how happy any grocer would be at the end of each year and seeing the KPIs per store, and the downtown one growing fast for decades? It just seems like such a now brainer

[Coyote]

KETV Investigates: Grocery access in downtown Omaha



There's no question that downtown Omaha is growing. And with that comes new additions — from the Riverfront Revitalization to bringing Mutual of Omaha's headquarters downtown. But many people who live downtown say there's one crucial thing missing: a proper grocery store. Living on Leavenworth Street right by the Missouri River, Austin Ford says he has to plan out his day whenever it's time to buy groceries.

[almighty_tuna]

IMO a slow news day "investigating" the obvious, or a timed piece in advance of a downtown grocery store announcement.

[damonhynes]

TV news is in the sewer. Channel Third last week breathlessly announced that "CaTalYtIc CoNvErTeR ThEfTs ArE On ThE RisE!!!111!!!" when that was news...two years ago.

[almighty_tuna]

"CaTalYtIc CoNvErTeR ThEfTs ArE On ThE RisE!!!111!!!"

[ita]

IMO a slow news day "investigating" the obvious, or a timed piece in advance of a downtown grocery store announcement.

Hopefully the latter. I know it's obvious to downtown dwellers and the forum, but general Omaha-ites don't think twice about this stuff. I think it helps to have our annual "downtown needs a grocery store" local news story.

[Dusty]

I remember Hy-vee showing interest a few years back in building a multi-story store in downtown Omaha. They had just built one in downtown Des Moines and were testing out an urban concept store.

When we cross that path to getting a grocery store, I recommend less parking stalls for cars. We need more bike parking with emphasis on cargo bikes for downtown dwellers to get groceries.

[OracleOfOmaha]

"CaTalYtIc CoNvErTeR ThEfTs ArE On ThE RisE!!!111!!!"

my car insurance rate going up due to all those thefts is not enjoyable.

I don't know why you would be so dismissive about people breaking other people's cars.

[almighty_tuna]

Ah, darn, you caught me! There I was, seemingly mocking Channel 3 for their late take on catalytic converter thefts as dramatized by "CaTalYtIc CoNvErTeR ThEfTs ArE On ThE RisE!!!111!!!" in a thread highlighting local news reporting, when you uncovered my real plot: laugh at your rising insurance rates. Idk how I'll recover.

[Busguy2010]

You have to think with all the momentum lately, that it's inevitable. It makes me think it could happen sooner than I ever thought in the past. I still like 16th around Cass-Burt. If they could route the streetcar on Mike Fahey like the original plan was, then I would really really like that location.

[Brad]

Is the Downtown DesMoines HyVee still open? Doing Well? Just curious because they don't seem to stick with things very long.

[almighty_tuna]

It does feel inevitable. I just hope it manifests as an actual full size, full service grocery store instead of a "boutique" whatever with boutique prices.

[Busguy2010]

Is the Downtown DesMoines HyVee still open? Doing Well? Just curious because they don't seem to stick with things very long.

I checked Google maps and it is open. I don't know why, but I thought I heard they closed at one point. Might have been wrong.

[Busguy2010]

It does feel inevitable. I just hope it manifests as an actual full size, full service grocery store instead of a "boutique" whatever with boutique prices.

I agree. I want nothing but a mainstream grocery store, and to me Hy-vee fits the best. Cut and paste the Des Moines store somewhere in North Downtown and be done with it, please.

[Athomsfere]

It does feel inevitable. I just hope it manifests as an actual full size, full service grocery store instead of a "boutique" whatever with boutique prices.

I just hope it's a brand with enough buying power for good prices. I also wouldn't mind a slightly slimmed down store. Why does Hy-Vee think it needs to sell clothes and home decor, for example.

[Greg S]

Is the Downtown DesMoines HyVee still open? Doing Well? Just curious because they don't seem to stick with things very long.

I checked Google maps and it is open. I don't know why, but I thought I heard they closed at one point. Might have been wrong.

I remember hearing the same thing. It does look like, at least according to this, it switched from grocery store to health market?

https://www.kcci.com/article/court-aven ... s/37613043

[Dusty]

They had a small pilot store in Jordan Creek shopping area for the Health Market. It's now closed. I'm surprised they would convert the downtown one to a health market. Regardless, the design of the building would fit well for our downtown. Bottom floor grocery, 2-5 stories condo, offices, etc. Height would be determined by location.

I guess it depends what residents prefer. Do we want one large store like Hy-vee or smaller neighborhood stores like having 2 Wohlners on opposite sides of downtown.

[mistergutierrez]

Is the Downtown DesMoines HyVee still open? Doing Well? Just curious because they don't seem to stick with things very long.

I checked Google maps and it is open. I don't know why, but I thought I heard they closed at one point. Might have been wrong.

I remember hearing the same thing. It does look like, at least according to this, it switched from grocery store to health market?

https://www.kcci.com/article/court-aven ... s/37613043

I was there last summer, and it was a standard HyVee, as usual.

[guy4omaha]

Personally, I would take an Aldi downtown.

[Athomsfere]

Personally, I would take an Aldi downtown.

I don't get the love for Aldi here, personally. In Germany, I loved Aldi. Something seems missing for the US ones. Not bad by any stretch, but Hy-Vee or Whole Foods would be my pick.

[ita]

Personally, I would take an Aldi downtown.

I don't get the love for Aldi here, personally. In Germany, I loved Aldi. Something seems missing for the US ones. Not bad by any stretch, but Hy-Vee or Whole Foods would be my pick.

Aldi is great, though it's not perfect. I think it's a good option for downtown because it provides the basics, and then some, while keeping prices fair. Also smaller footprint means it could fit in more spaces downtown.

We've got 4 kiddos so aldi is a must for us. I can't afford nor have the time to try to save money by going to different stores for deals. Aldi is always competitive with other stores' weekly sales. Makes life easy. Produce and meat are good, except for green bananas, and the private label packaged stuff is comparable to branded stuff.

[Omaha Cowboy]

KETV’s Part 2-



Ciao..LiO…Peace

[Dusty]

It's almost like they are prepping us for some big reveal. I couldn't help but notice in the video the line "We need to find a piece of land that can handle tons of parking." WHAT? This is an urban concept. Residents would be walking to the store, riding their bikes (or cargo bikes), and jumping on and off transit. It should be limited parking to embrace urban living.

The Civic site definitely needs to improve on increasing foot traffic in the area. Seems like an odd location tucked away in a corner. I would rather do 2 small/medium stores (Cuming and Howard/Leavenworth). An Aldi or Walmart Neighborhood Market would be workable as long as it's NOT a stand alone single story building. Needs to be mixed use like the Downtown Des Moines Hy-vee. I still miss Fresh Thyme. I would of loved to see a store like that downtown.

[ita]

It's almost like they are prepping us for some big reveal. I couldn't help but notice in the video the line "We need to find a piece of land that can handle tons of parking." WHAT? This is an urban concept. Residents would be walking to the store, riding their bikes (or cargo bikes), and jumping on and off transit. It should be limited parking to embrace urban living.

The Civic site definitely needs to improve on increasing foot traffic in the area. Seems like an odd location tucked away in a corner. I would rather do 2 small/medium stores (Cuming and Howard/Leavenworth). An Aldi or Walmart Neighborhood Market would be workable as long as it's NOT a stand alone single story building. Needs to be mixed use like the Downtown Des Moines Hy-vee. I still miss Fresh Thyme. I would of loved to see a store like that downtown.

Yeah, they weren't really trying to hide it regarding a grocery store at the Civic Site. My issue with the Civic Site is that while generally centrally located between North Downtown and the CBD, it's not the best connected site, ie. closer to the streetcar, bike routes, and lots of bus routes. It does have parking though! Haha. Although it is next to the high school, which will be nice for getting employees.

To your point though, if the 'main', full service grocery store is at the civic site, a couple smaller stores would be nice in the general locations you identified. If the core gets 30k more people in 20 years, there can be a least a couple more stores per the quoted metric of 12k people needed for a grocery store.

[nebport5]

I don't think the Cvic site would be an odd choice. Being on the streetcar line is a worthy consideration but as long as 480 continues to exist there's an easy in and out for people potentially coming from outside DT. If it were something like a Whole Foods or something that isn't already in Council Bluffs that would surely be a draw for people who already drive to Regency. Creighton's proximity to the Civic site is also advantageous for potential grocery. We also know the Civic plans at least involve considerable housing.

Ideal sites on the streetcar line? Lot B

[Athomsfere]

Walmart Neighborhood Market

That would be my absolute last choice, personally.

[NEDodger]

I get having somewhat of parking availability. If I’m a grocery store and am investing significant money in this (while everyone is saying that I need to be affordable, in a small profit margin industry…), I’m going to aim for every potential customer I can. I’m not going to relegate it to who can access my store by walking/biking/mass transit, because my goal here is to make money. I want the Carter Lake dollars, I want the west Council Bluffs dollars, I want the dollars from south of Blackstone and north of Creighton. Parking is going to be mandatory for any grocer to come downtown. They don’t owe anything in regards to “being a part of the urban fabric” and such.

[guy4omaha]

I still miss Fresh Thyme. I would of loved to see a store like that downtown.

I really miss Fresh Thyme too. It suited my needs almost perfectly. From time to time, I leave a message on their website telling them they need to come back.

[almighty_tuna]

Fresh Thyme was AWESOME!! Arguably the best produce in town and fantastic prices to boot.

[Athomsfere]

I get having somewhat of parking availability. If I’m a grocery store and am investing significant money in this (while everyone is saying that I need to be affordable, in a small profit margin industry…), I’m going to aim for every potential customer I can. I’m not going to relegate it to who can access my store by walking/biking/mass transit, because my goal here is to make money. I want the Carter Lake dollars, I want the west Council Bluffs dollars, I want the dollars from south of Blackstone and north of Creighton. Parking is going to be mandatory for any grocer to come downtown. They don’t owe anything in regards to “being a part of the urban fabric” and such.

I agree here. The one in Minneapolis' downtown is about perfect, IMO. Or the Trader Joe's in downtown Austin.

Tuck a street level access for pedestrian and transit riders, but also hide another entrance in a garage below the store, or in the back,

[NEDodger]

I get having somewhat of parking availability. If I’m a grocery store and am investing significant money in this (while everyone is saying that I need to be affordable, in a small profit margin industry…), I’m going to aim for every potential customer I can. I’m not going to relegate it to who can access my store by walking/biking/mass transit, because my goal here is to make money. I want the Carter Lake dollars, I want the west Council Bluffs dollars, I want the dollars from south of Blackstone and north of Creighton. Parking is going to be mandatory for any grocer to come downtown. They don’t owe anything in regards to “being a part of the urban fabric” and such.

I agree here. The one in Minneapolis' downtown is about perfect, IMO. Or the Trader Joe's in downtown Austin.

Tuck a street level access for pedestrian and transit riders, but also hide another entrance in a garage below the store, or in the back,

Cosentino’s Market in downtown KC is good too - connected garages, large selection, a restaurant inside for breakfasts, etc.

[Dusty]

I get having somewhat of parking availability. If I’m a grocery store and am investing significant money in this (while everyone is saying that I need to be affordable, in a small profit margin industry…), I’m going to aim for every potential customer I can. I’m not going to relegate it to who can access my store by walking/biking/mass transit, because my goal here is to make money. I want the Carter Lake dollars, I want the west Council Bluffs dollars, I want the dollars from south of Blackstone and north of Creighton. Parking is going to be mandatory for any grocer to come downtown. They don’t owe anything in regards to “being a part of the urban fabric” and such.

I disagree. By adding tons of parking we are with sticking with status quo. It says developments are designed around cars first, which is a mistake in an urban setting. The sky will not fall if you have less parking. People will find a different mode to get to the store. If you want people to embrace biking and transit, you have to take away car infrastructure. The fear of losing sales because of lack of parking is an excuse and shows we are afraid to cut the ties with cars. The key to increased sales in not more car parking, it's increased foot traffic.

Original Hy-vee plans was a 2 story garage and 2 story store. It reminded me a lot of Ikea in Kansas City. After seeing the cost they backed out in a hurry. Why we have a problem attracting a developer is parking mandates. We need to eliminate parking minimums. If a store wants to build a smaller parking lot downtown, they should. It would open up more flexibility and increase our chances of actually getting a downtown grocery store. Let say we build on the Civic site. There are 4 large parking garages within 2 blocks of site. 2 appear to city owned (currently monthly rates only). We need to improve accessibility within these garages instead of building more. So YES, we can work with less parking since we have these options.

Side story to add to my first point. A few years ago we went to Disneyland in California. We got an Uber ride to the hotel. None of the hotels in the area had on site parking. If you wanted the option to drive, they charged $35 a day to park it in a shared garage many of the hotels used. So what happens now? Well I guess you have to push yourself out of your comfort zone to get around. You can rent a bike, ride the bus, or walk. It didn't stop me from going to the park or restaurants. And guess what? After a couple days you realize it's easy and convenient. My point is....people need groceries. They might cry and complain at first, but they will adjust to other modes quickly to get around. Especially, when car options are limited or costly.

[NEDodger]

I get having somewhat of parking availability. If I’m a grocery store and am investing significant money in this (while everyone is saying that I need to be affordable, in a small profit margin industry…), I’m going to aim for every potential customer I can. I’m not going to relegate it to who can access my store by walking/biking/mass transit, because my goal here is to make money. I want the Carter Lake dollars, I want the west Council Bluffs dollars, I want the dollars from south of Blackstone and north of Creighton. Parking is going to be mandatory for any grocer to come downtown. They don’t owe anything in regards to “being a part of the urban fabric” and such.

There are 4 large parking garages within 2 blocks of site. 2 appear to city owned (currently monthly rates only). We need to improve accessibility within these garages instead of building more.

I don’t disagree with this portion, if it’s built at the Civic site. But if this is more in the city center/closer to the Old Market, ain’t gonna work. You keep referencing what “we” need to do - this is entirely on what a business is willing to do. A grocery store is not going to build downtown if the restrictions are to include all of the following:

- HAVE to have a better selection than Cubby’s
- HAVE to be reasonably priced
- HAVE to be focused on people just walking/biking/mass transit

You’re going to be waiting decades more if you’re placing all these demands on the business, whose ONLY concern is to be profitable, not to be part of a mass transit social construct.

It’s not about changing peoples minds eventually - it’s about what a business is willing to risk to ensure they are profitable

[Dusty]

I feel we are dancing in circles but wanting the same thing. Developers can't build anything they want. They have to follow land use laws. When I say "we need to" it's referencing to the city changing the laws to make it more appealing for developers. I'm not mandating rules, I'm relaxing them. Eliminating parking minimums would open up more developers.

These parking mandates force them to build X amount of stalls to account for car traffic. They estimate based on peaks times. Of course, we over exaggerate and say on Black Friday we need this many stalls available. This is why you see so many half empty parking lots during busy times. So let's remove the mandate so stores can add more value to their lot.
For example: if we mandate 50 stalls but store only feels they need 30, they can use the extra space to build a bigger store, add a patio, or something that makes them more money. if they want to use 5 of the stalls for bike parking, they should. Currently, bikes are not allowed in stalls. This is why you see all the staples on the sidewalk and not in the parking lot.

The end result could lead to limited car parking which would help support the streetcar, BRT, etc. The key is giving the developer/store more flexibility so they can make profit vs forcing a percentage of land to be parking.

[Brad]

You might want to look at "Sec. 55-421. - CBD central business district." of the Omaha Municipal Code.

https://library.municode.com/ne/omaha/c ... 21CBCEBUDI

A grocery Store is a Permitted Use in the CBD

As far as parking in the CBD:
"Sec. 55-427. - Additional regulations. (b)Parking regulations. Uses in the CBD district are exempt from requirements for off-street parking provided by section 55-734."

[Athomsfere]

I get having somewhat of parking availability. If I’m a grocery store and am investing significant money in this (while everyone is saying that I need to be affordable, in a small profit margin industry…), I’m going to aim for every potential customer I can. I’m not going to relegate it to who can access my store by walking/biking/mass transit, because my goal here is to make money. I want the Carter Lake dollars, I want the west Council Bluffs dollars, I want the dollars from south of Blackstone and north of Creighton. Parking is going to be mandatory for any grocer to come downtown. They don’t owe anything in regards to “being a part of the urban fabric” and such.

There are 4 large parking garages within 2 blocks of site. 2 appear to city owned (currently monthly rates only). We need to improve accessibility within these garages instead of building more.

I don’t disagree with this portion, if it’s built at the Civic site. But if this is more in the city center/closer to the Old Market, ain’t gonna work. You keep referencing what “we” need to do - this is entirely on what a business is willing to do. A grocery store is not going to build downtown if the restrictions are to include all of the following:

- HAVE to have a better selection than Cubby’s
- HAVE to be reasonably priced
- HAVE to be focused on people just walking/biking/mass transit

You’re going to be waiting decades more if you’re placing all these demands on the business, whose ONLY concern is to be profitable, not to be part of a mass transit social construct.

It’s not about changing peoples minds eventually - it’s about what a business is willing to risk to ensure they are profitable

As glad as I am to have someone here even more against parking than I am. I do feel a grocer here would be an OK holdout.

Stipulations of course. No surface lots, and no minimums. If Hy-Vee thinks they can get away with 1/4 of the TOD recommendations, let them.

Who knows, in 10 years we might have the sort of transit where eventually the only garage at the civic site would be this one. And that's OK IMO because you might have someone driving through and grabbing an AirBnB in midtown and sees this store right on route.

[Athomsfere]

You might want to look at "Sec. 55-421. - CBD central business district." of the Omaha Municipal Code.

https://library.municode.com/ne/omaha/c ... 21CBCEBUDI

A grocery Store is a Permitted Use in the CBD

As far as parking in the CBD:
"Sec. 55-427. - Additional regulations. (b)Parking regulations. Uses in the CBD district are exempt from requirements for off-street parking provided by section 55-734."

That's a great tidbit!