Civic Square (former Civic Auditorium)

[Dusty]

I feel like I can agree with both sides. It's a modest plan that has good flow. It could be worse! But at minimum it should at least match or be 1 story taller than the parking garages next to it. Otherwise, it will feel like the development is slowly falling in a sinkhole.

My comments to them was: if you want to push the city square concept, then make the center more of the public space for gathering. Convert the off street parking to bike parking on the inner streets.

[PWL73316]

And that northern section of I-480 is pretty pointless. Very low traffic levels. When it reaches end-of-life, it would not make sense to reconstruct it.

Devil's advocate, the Iowa side has been under construction and at least partially closed for like 10 years. Who knows what it would look like 'normally' if that ever means anything again.

[PWL73316]

That said, I generally don't think the east-west part of 480 serves much purpose. It keeps you off surface streets between I-29 and I-80, but that purpose has been taken and much better served by the I-80 expansion.

I think you can simplify like this with basically no utility loss. Make the bridge into a normal traffic bridge that connects directly to Broadway, put the I-29 connections on the Iowa side. If people want to bypass CB let them use I-80. I think people would be shocked at the difference in feeling if going to CB from central Omaha was going on surface streets directly into downtown CB instead of it being a 'trip' with confusing interstates involved.

[thenewguy]

I'm not a betting man, but I'd give that about a 100% chance of never happening.

[PWL73316]

As others have said, removing sections of interstate that cut up downtowns is increasingly popular. They are very expensive to maintain and in many cases have limited demand thanks to all the additional building that interrupted their original purpose. You have 680 a distance to the north and 80 a very short distance to the south, both of which are connected to directly by interstates on the Nebraska side. There is very little (virtually zero) interstate demand for this section, and limited local demand.

In the U.S., our goverments are scared to act and constantly side with the status quo. So it probably won't happen any time soon. But it should be given serious consideration, particularly with the Greater Chamber advocating for a secondary, local bridge, which would be extremely expensive to build and have to take indirect routes, while trying to connect Dodge/Douglas and Broadway (what the interstate bridge naturally does).

[OracleOfOmaha]

I think this is great for the city and hope it comes through as the renderings suggest.

For those wanting more height, this project getting a grocery store, street level retail, and other amenities could help push a tall residential tower at the UP site over the line...

[Omahayngin]

Honestly i think this is good, some more height would look nicer but this will keep the ball rolling and adding needed amenities for downtown. They arnt using the 5-1 method which is nice and I’d rather shoot for this which is doable then something way out of the ballpark and have it sitting for years empty again

[JDJase]

I think what annoys me most about this project is that the city and developers are so adamant that the entire lot needs to be developed at once, and that's why the most realistic proposal looks like one of these low rise 'new urbanism' developments that usually get plopped in the suburbs so suburbanites can feel like city folk for a bit.

If the housing/commercial numbers in this proposal are all they think demand will support right now, then take the amenities on the northern half and stack em on top of the southern half for some height and just develop the southern half of the lot. Make the northern half a nice green space (well, nice enough for people to enjoy but not so amazing to upset people when it eventually gets developed).

Part of the reason Aksarben has been our most successful urban project is that it is adapted and filled as demand requires. If Aksarben had been built out all at once it would be far more disappointing compared to what we ended up with (I know the initial renderings for Askarben were impressive but those would have ended up very scaled down if it was all constructed at once).

[Athomsfere]

I think what annoys me most about this project is that the city and developers are so adamant that the entire lot needs to be developed at once, and that's why the most realistic proposal looks like one of these low rise 'new urbanism' developments that usually get plopped in the suburbs so suburbanites can feel like city folk for a bit.

If the housing/commercial numbers in this proposal are all they think demand will support right now, then take the amenities on the northern half and stack em on top of the southern half for some height and just develop the southern half of the lot. Make the northern half a nice green space (well, nice enough for people to enjoy but not so amazing to upset people when it eventually gets developed).

Part of the reason Aksarben has been our most successful urban project is that it is adapted and filled as demand requires. If Aksarben had been built out all at once it would be far more disappointing compared to what we ended up with (I know the initial renderings for Askarben were impressive but those would have ended up very scaled down if it was all constructed at once).

Is "new urbanism" supposed to be anything other than a good thing there?

A city of 6 story buildings should be the dream, over a couple of high rises anyway. Whether its the West O or closer to the CBD.

[Erik]

New Urbanism helps to justify large developments.

If we only focus on midrises or above, then our downtown/North Downtown/SODO/Midtown areas will not fill up for more than a century.

If you look at any successful downtown, you will see this type of development as progress and an option for some.

We need a pool of hirises, midrises and "close to" 5 over 1s in order to have the most robust, thriving downtown possible.

Besides the streetcar moves the highest density focus southward.

I get all arguments, but there is no way a development like this is going to do anything but help our core grow even faster.

[nativeomahan]

Why couldn’t the new police and fire headquarters be situated on a portion of this 4 square block site? It would help provide density, plus provide hundreds of jobs/people to the site, which in turn would increase the odds of a grocery store and new restaurants being successful, and add heightened interest of those workers wanting to live in housing on the remainder of the property, just a thought. The new police/fire HQs has to go somewhere, and downtown is the likely place.

[ita]

Why couldn’t the new police and fire headquarters be situated on a portion of this 4 square block site? It would help provide density, plus provide hundreds of jobs/people to the site, which in turn would increase the odds of a grocery store and new restaurants being successful, and add heightened interest of those workers wanting to live in housing on the remainder of the property, just a thought. The new police/fire HQs has to go somewhere, and downtown is the likely place.

Here's another suggestion for the office space. And it's not new, but has been mentioned by some other posters. Move the state offices to this site. I don't know how many employees are in the downtown location, but presumably a decent amount. While this takes away those employees from the center of the CBD, it opens up redevelopment opportunities for the current state offices building that is right along the streetcar route and across the street from MOO and the GLM. Also makes leasing/selling the space easy and semi permanent. Would really bolster the possible grocery store.

[Cermak]

I was never expecting this to be a highrise development. I do like it from what I can tell from the renderings. This part of downtown has always been kind of empty and quiet to me with very low foot traffic. It's not the part of downtown you show out of town visitors. Any sort of additional activity this brings would be much beneficial and welcome. Hope it is successful and doesn't need city subsidies to survive. Right now I would mainly be looking at making this part of downtown more lively and inviting. I would think Creighton, the Zorinsky federal building and Hotel Indigo would be particularly excited about this project given their close proximity.

[nebport5]

Why couldn’t the new police and fire headquarters be situated on a portion of this 4 square block site? It would help provide density, plus provide hundreds of jobs/people to the site, which in turn would increase the odds of a grocery store and new restaurants being successful, and add heightened interest of those workers wanting to live in housing on the remainder of the property, just a thought. The new police/fire HQs has to go somewhere, and downtown is the likely place.

Here's another suggestion for the office space. And it's not new, but has been mentioned by some other posters. Move the state offices to this site. I don't know how many employees are in the downtown location, but presumably a decent amount. While this takes away those employees from the center of the CBD, it opens up redevelopment opportunities for the current state offices building that is right along the streetcar route and across the street from MOO and the GLM. Also makes leasing/selling the space easy and semi permanent. Would really bolster the possible grocery store.

Yes, some of us have been saying this for awhile. Leo A. Daly has a year to find/recommend a site. Considering White Lotus stating a willingness to work with "joint venture opportunities", why couldn't this yet be possible? Having a large working presence certainly would bolster the success of a potential grocer. Having a greater resident population would be even more beneficial. I say get rid of the out of place condos in favor of a mid-rise residential tower which could add a lot more people.

[almighty_tuna]

Yeah, specifically calling out "joint venture opportunities" in the press release says a couple things to me: either "we need help to actually build this", or that they're willing to expand the design above and beyond what's presented if someone wants in on that location as well.

[ita]

So, I don't mean to keep piling on this development or shoot it down before it starts (if this gets built as shown, I wouldn't hate it and I think it is a plus for the core), but what if White Lotus doesn't follow through with getting permits or starting within a reasonable time (honestly don't think they meet the July deadline in the agreement)? What if the City then uses it's option to buy it back?

In that alternative scenario, I think the City should go ahead a build in the infrastructure to reestablish the grid. Obviously it's something they want. Then, as other's have mentioned, market it as four individual city lots that can be developed by four different developers, or 1, 2, 3, etc. The City owns the lot so they can approve project designs and planning for the area. Since the Streetcar is positively moving forward, the City gets additional interest in developing one/some of the city blocks. I don't think high rises are needed here, but what if we got Capitol District sized buildings here, even mixed with 4+1's. Anyway, I am not wishing that happens, because White Lotus is doing some things like including affordable housing that other developers wouldn't here, but it's still possible White Lotus, for some reason, can't get this done and the City has to buy back and run it back.

[Athomsfere]

So, I don't mean to keep piling on this development or shoot it down before it starts (if this gets built as shown, I wouldn't hate it and I think it is a plus for the core), but what if White Lotus doesn't follow through with getting permits or starting within a reasonable time (honestly don't think they meet the July deadline in the agreement)? What if the City then uses it's option to buy it back?

In that alternative scenario, I think the City should go ahead a build in the infrastructure to reestablish the grid. Obviously it's something they want. Then, as other's have mentioned, market it as four individual city lots that can be developed by four different developers, or 1, 2, 3, etc. The City owns the lot so they can approve project designs and planning for the area. Since the Streetcar is positively moving forward, the City gets additional interest in developing one/some of the city blocks. I don't think high rises are needed here, but what if we got Capitol District sized buildings here, even mixed with 4+1's. Anyway, I am not wishing that happens, because White Lotus is doing some things like including affordable housing that other developers wouldn't here, but it's still possible White Lotus, for some reason, can't get this done and the City has to buy back and run it back.

If that happened, it would also have my support.

I'd be happy if they hit the 40% numbers and were able to build some of it with the grocer, before finding a way to option out a lot or two to be split and built a little denser too.

[PotatoeEatsFish]

White Lotus needs to get their |expletive| together before they announce stuff

[thenewguy]

The more I think about it, the more I think this could work. If they had a central area with a small number of bars and restaurants, it would be fantastic during the CWS, especially since it isn't really that far from the mattress factory, etc, and would draw people towards the core. It'd be great to have people at the capitol district, old market, and civic site like that.

[MTO]

I’m rather clueless about this stuff but would this be a good spot for a pro soccer stadium?

[Garrett]

I’m rather clueless about this stuff but would this be a good spot for a pro soccer stadium?

Looks like it’s about the size as Morrison’s lot so it could work decently well in theory. Really emphasize that Omaha has two soccer stadiums next to each other haha

[thenewguy]

I’m rather clueless about this stuff but would this be a good spot for a pro soccer stadium?

Looks like it’s about the size as Morrison’s lot so it could work decently well in theory. Really emphasize that Omaha has two soccer stadiums next to each other haha

haha

[Dusty]

Looks like it’s about the size as Morrison’s lot so it could work decently well in theory. Really emphasize that Omaha has two soccer stadiums next to each other haha

I can see the vision now. Side by side soccer stadiums with an observation tower between them. A rotating soccer ball as a beacon of light.

Disclaimer: Due to budget constraints, tower is restricted to 4 stories tall. Developer is open to joint venture opportunities to expand it's height.

[Athomsfere]

Looks like it’s about the size as Morrison’s lot so it could work decently well in theory. Really emphasize that Omaha has two soccer stadiums next to each other haha

I can see the vision now. Side by side soccer stadiums with an observation tower between them. A rotating soccer ball as a beacon of light.

Omaha's Soccer Needle.

[NEDodger]

The more I think about it, the more I think this could work. If they had a central area with a small number of bars and restaurants, it would be fantastic during the CWS, especially since it isn't really that far from the mattress factory, etc, and would draw people towards the core. It'd be great to have people at the capitol district, old market, and civic site like that.

I think we’re toeing the oversaturation point. Between what’s already available at the CWS, Millwork Commons, North Downtown, Old Market, Capitol District….we’re set on bars, even during major events. Anymore and you’ll start to see cannibalization.

[Omahayngin]

I was just gonna say. While all the developments are nice how much more bars, restaurants ect can we actually sustain. I think housing should be a bigger priority, affordable expecially if we want sustained growth downtown.

[Athomsfere]

I believe this is a new video on the Civic Square.



15 minutes long, even!

[Athomsfere]

I was just gonna say. While all the developments are nice how much more bars, restaurants ect can we actually sustain. I think housing should be a bigger priority, affordable expecially if we want sustained growth downtown.

I'd say a ton more with the 20/30/30 in mind. Hopefully some of those are third place style restaurants, bars etc. and not just destination bars and restaurants like Rio De Brasil.

[thenewguy]

One thing I didn't take into consideration when they announced this was the Creighton student body. While it may not seem like much, that would actually help the grocery store with sustainable patronage. When my brother attended CU, he drove to CB to get groceries, but his apartment on campus was actually very close to the civic. What a blessing that would have been. While this certainly isn't the biggest development, it may very well be one of the most important.

[Athomsfere]

One thing I didn't take into consideration when they announced this was the Creighton student body. While it may not seem like much, that would actually help the grocery store with sustainable patronage. When my brother attended CU, he drove to CB to get groceries, but his apartment on campus was actually very close to the civic. What a blessing that would have been. While this certainly isn't the biggest development, it may very well be one of the most important.

When I lived at the Wire too. Or those anywhere nearby there at the Bank, The Highline etc..

It sucked having to go way west to 76th, to CB, or wiggling through SC to get to the Hy-Vee at center for anything not at Wohlners.

[WBR_Tom]

One thing I didn't take into consideration when they announced this was the Creighton student body. While it may not seem like much, that would actually help the grocery store with sustainable patronage. When my brother attended CU, he drove to CB to get groceries, but his apartment on campus was actually very close to the civic. What a blessing that would have been. While this certainly isn't the biggest development, it may very well be one of the most important.

It's a great point. Granted it was a quarter-century ago at this point, but when I was at Creighton we drove to the Lake Manawa Walmart in CB weekly because it was the closest grocery store to the house we rented by campus. It was long enough ago that the Jays still played at the Civic and I made that walk all the time in all kinds of weather, both from the dorms and from our off-campus house later. I could see lots of students going to a grocer at that site.

[Dusty]

I noticed in the Chronicle video, the CEO of White Lotus said this lot was so special because of the proximity to the interstate and its ramps. I would think the selling point would be residents in Downtown and Creighton who are walking, cycling, taking transit near the lot.

[ita]

I noticed in the Chronicle video, the CEO of White Lotus said this lot was so special because of the proximity to the interstate and its ramps. I would think the selling point would be residents in Downtown and Creighton who are walking, cycling, taking transit near the lot.

Arun was on Grow Omaha this weekend. Just listened to it. He's very excited about street parking created by reinstating the grid, though it was specifically in relation to what businesses want.

[Duggers_Dad]

I noticed in the Chronicle video, the CEO of White Lotus said this lot was so special because of the proximity to the interstate and its ramps. I would think the selling point would be residents in Downtown and Creighton who are walking, cycling, taking transit near the lot.

Arun was on Grow Omaha this weekend. Just listened to it. He's very excited about street parking created by reinstating the grid, though it was specifically in relation to what businesses want.

Sounded like he’s already had promising discussions with potential grocers.

[Dusty]

I noticed in the Chronicle video, the CEO of White Lotus said this lot was so special because of the proximity to the interstate and its ramps. I would think the selling point would be residents in Downtown and Creighton who are walking, cycling, taking transit near the lot.

Arun was on Grow Omaha this weekend. Just listened to it. He's very excited about street parking created by reinstating the grid, though it was specifically in relation to what businesses want.

That was my biggest complaint about the design. No bike parking and a center full of street parking for cars. It destroys the vibe for a city square concept, which is supposed to be people oriented. Sales are increased with foot traffic, not car parking.

[Dusty]

If you listen to the interviews, he made a comment stating people in Omaha are spoiled and like to drive around in circles looking for the perfect spot. He was glad to add the grid back and offer convenient street parking to make those people happy. This is a suburban design in an urban location. We should never be feeding the monster of bad car behavior. If you want people to ride the streetcar and ride bikes, then take the car parking away! Our target is downtown dwellers and Creighton students. Most students ride bicycles, because they can't afford a car and tuition.

I feel like this lot is a no brainer to design. We build a Barcelona super block. All buildings are built to the outer perimeter. Inside is a shared space or public square. This would fit in with the Civic Square name. I would cut the parking garage to save TONs on money and use that to add more residential floors to the buildings. I posted some pictures of public squares. A place where people gather, not park cars!

[halgy]

It would be one thing if reinstating the grid meant restoring a through street for traffic (like demolishing the DoubleTree would do for 16th). As it is, the streets will only extend out another block. The new interior streets will only be useful for parking, and for circling around looking for parking.

A Barcelona-style super block would be ideal. The perimeter streets would be for cars/parking, and the interior streets would be for pedestrians/bikes. Extending the streetcar up along 19th street (as proposed by Sen. Justin Wayne) would also be great. The grocery store should be easily accessible by the people living downtown. People driving in are of secondary concern.

[Duggers_Dad]

I thought I understood him to say they want to capitalize on Creighton students.

[NEDodger]

Our target is downtown dwellers and Creighton students. Most students ride bicycles, because they can't afford a car and tuition.

Unless you’ve got money in this, there is no “our target”. The target here is for the development to get a grocery store of decent size here. If the grocer is unwilling to put their money into this unless there are street parking spots next to it….that’s their call. It’s better than continuing without a grocery store.

[MTO]

A grocer may get better traffic if it were close to the streetcar line.