Civic Square (former Civic Auditorium)

[iamjacobm]

If you listen to the interviews, he made a comment stating people in Omaha are spoiled and like to drive around in circles looking for the perfect spot. He was glad to add the grid back and offer convenient street parking to make those people happy. This is a suburban design in an urban location. We should never be feeding the monster of bad car behavior. If you want people to ride the streetcar and ride bikes, then take the car parking away! Our target is downtown dwellers and Creighton students. Most students ride bicycles, because they can't afford a car and tuition.

I feel like this lot is a no brainer to design. We build a Barcelona super block. All buildings are built to the outer perimeter. Inside is a shared space or public square. This would fit in with the Civic Square name. I would cut the parking garage to save TONs on money and use that to add more residential floors to the buildings. I posted some pictures of public squares. A place where people gather, not park cars!

Not sure if you are familiar with the Culdesac development in Tempe, but I think you would like it. Will be interesting to see if the model works for them and if they can recreate it elsewhere.

[Renovator2559]

If you listen to the interviews, he made a comment stating people in Omaha are spoiled and like to drive around in circles looking for the perfect spot. He was glad to add the grid back and offer convenient street parking to make those people happy. This is a suburban design in an urban location. We should never be feeding the monster of bad car behavior. If you want people to ride the streetcar and ride bikes, then take the car parking away! Our target is downtown dwellers and Creighton students. Most students ride bicycles, because they can't afford a car and tuition.

I feel like this lot is a no brainer to design. We build a Barcelona super block. All buildings are built to the outer perimeter. Inside is a shared space or public square. This would fit in with the Civic Square name. I would cut the parking garage to save TONs on money and use that to add more residential floors to the buildings. I posted some pictures of public squares. A place where people gather, not park cars!

Although I see what you are saying, let's not forget this is a grocery store, which most likely will sell heavy items. Carrying a lot of bags in public transit is not as ideal, so people would end up going to saddle creek or CB instead. What needs to happen, is that the store sells as much inventory without people being limited to only a few bags because transit is the best option.

Also, although we will have the streetcar, we are not yet mature enough in public transit to rely entirely, until the next phase of the streetcar is layed N/S (30th street) route.

Also, these streets could easily be converted to pedestrian only in the future.

[Renovator2559]

Just to clarify, the article says 200 housing units; I haven't seen anything that specifies they're all apartments. The prior plan called for 20 townhomes. The recent rendering shows some townhome looking units on the NE corner of the development, fronting I-480. Seems dumb, unless there are serious plans to do something about I-480 (sorry for being a broken record).

I don't see the interstate coming down anytime soon. It would need a big project to greenlight the teardown.
A commitment from Council Bluffs to the streetcar line could be one big push. Or a commitment to a Cuming Street streetcar line could be another. If we have both happen, then watch out. The wrecking ball will be swinging! Plus, you would see incredible growth merging the areas together.

The Omaha long term plan says that part of the i480 , North of the civic site will be brought down and converted to a couplet or boulevard, with a roundabout, with blocks of development in the middle.

[Renovator2559]

I love the 4 over 1 concept!!! It screams I want to invest here but not take any actual financial risks.

Where else have we seen this 4 over 1??? Benson, Blackstone, Aksarben, multiple spots downtown, Leavenworth, Saddle Creek. Dundee

Im sure this visionary 5 story building will be applying for TIF to offset the huge risk of building an untested 4 over 1 building.

Technically, 5 over 1 still. As that describes the materials not the height.

How? I live in Midtown Crossing, we also want to shop there, so it's am easy compromise for the whole urban core stated for development, from 48th OMA to 35th CB

[Renovator2559]

I guess I'm in the minority in just wanting 4-10 story buildings all over. Human scale development and all that. Make us like Barcelona

But that makes sense that they're still trying to fit the new city HQs here. Has anyone asked if those are still necessary in the remote work era? Surely even city officials are spending less time in office these days? Maybe we can rethink these plans a bit and focus our city dollars elsewhere.

I am not in law enforcement, but I don't think you can reduce in office workers for police and fire departments that much. I thought I had read somewhere that dispatchers or the phone folks are not located at current policy HQ.

At least for the Civic Site, I agree with you, that up to 10 residential buildings would be great there. CFS structures or mass timber or some hybrid approach would be awesome.

I am still of the opinion that the Civic Site needs to be built with plans in mind for either taking down I-480 overpass or the 20th street exit, and the potential development that can occur. Alternatively, if I-480 remains, than incorporating public space under I-480 like sport courts, playgrounds, dog parks, skate parks, and trails, to allow maximum density in the Civic Site and adjacent developable properties.

The Omaha chambers has long term plans to take down part of i480 since it's nearing its lifespan, as it will free up 6 entire blocks of development.

[Athomsfere]

I love the 4 over 1 concept!!! It screams I want to invest here but not take any actual financial risks.

Where else have we seen this 4 over 1??? Benson, Blackstone, Aksarben, multiple spots downtown, Leavenworth, Saddle Creek. Dundee

Im sure this visionary 5 story building will be applying for TIF to offset the huge risk of building an untested 4 over 1 building.

Technically, 5 over 1 still. As that describes the materials not the height.

How? I live in Midtown Crossing, we also want to shop there, so it's am easy compromise for the whole urban core stated for development, from 48th OMA to 35th CB

How is it technically 5 over 1?

Because the 5 in 5 over 1 is the material "type 5 (wood)". It does not describe the number of floors.

[Renovator2559]

What do some of you have against I-480 wrapping around downtown? It’s an interstate highway. It isn’t disappearing. That sort of thing just doesn’t happen.

It's a waste of valuable real estate, it's already in the long term plan, by converting to a couplet or boulevard

[Renovator2559]

My main concern with this development is that the grocery is a little past comfortable walking distance from the Old Market and other residential parts of downtown Omaha. Ideally people could walk to it to pick up a few things rather than jump in their car, but at 0.8 miles or about a 17 minute walk from 11th and Howard it’s a little outside the 0.5 mile/15 minute rule of thumb.

How? I live in Midtown Crossing, we also want to shop there, so it's am easy compromise for the whole urban core stated for development, from 48th OMA to 35th CB

[Louie]

My main concern with this development is that the grocery is a little past comfortable walking distance from the Old Market and other residential parts of downtown Omaha. Ideally people could walk to it to pick up a few things rather than jump in their car, but at 0.8 miles or about a 17 minute walk from 11th and Howard it’s a little outside the 0.5 mile/15 minute rule of thumb.

How? I live in Midtown Crossing, we also want to shop there, so it's am easy compromise for the whole urban core stated for development, from 48th OMA to 35th CB

Would you be walking? If not, then the difference for you would be negligible if it were closer to the Old Market (or closer to the transit lines on Farnam).

[Renovator2559]

My main concern with this development is that the grocery is a little past comfortable walking distance from the Old Market and other residential parts of downtown Omaha. Ideally people could walk to it to pick up a few things rather than jump in their car, but at 0.8 miles or about a 17 minute walk from 11th and Howard it’s a little outside the 0.5 mile/15 minute rule of thumb.

How? I live in Midtown Crossing, we also want to shop there, so it's am easy compromise for the whole urban core stated for development, from 48th OMA to 35th CB

Would you be walking? If not, then the difference for you would be negligible if it were closer to the Old Market (or closer to the transit lines on Farnam).

I walk, bike and use transit a lot except when going to west Omaha, I don't rely on the car to get anywhere in downtown.

Plus all those empty lots and abandoned buildings between midtown and downtown, have been bought by MoO and are shovel ready as they say

[TitosBuritoBarn]

My main concern with this development is that the grocery is a little past comfortable walking distance from the Old Market and other residential parts of downtown Omaha. Ideally people could walk to it to pick up a few things rather than jump in their car, but at 0.8 miles or about a 17 minute walk from 11th and Howard it’s a little outside the 0.5 mile/15 minute rule of thumb.

How? I live in Midtown Crossing, we also want to shop there, so it's am easy compromise for the whole urban core stated for development, from 48th OMA to 35th CB

The physical location is a decent balance between midtown and downtown, but it won't be walkable for many downtown residents. So it's not really a compromise when the idea for it was to be an urban grocer and it doesn't lend itself well to urban-oriented accessibility. It's going to be more auto-oriented than it should be.

[Athomsfere]

Yeah, if you've ever accidently bought a few too many groceries and had to walk 1 - 4 blocks, no issue. Cumbersome, but not terrible.

Every block after that get's exponentially worse. Which is where Cargo bikes come in. For Old Market residents in general too. A 6 minute bike ride is way more enjoyable than a 20 minute walk.

[Renovator2559]

My main concern with this development is that the grocery is a little past comfortable walking distance from the Old Market and other residential parts of downtown Omaha. Ideally people could walk to it to pick up a few things rather than jump in their car, but at 0.8 miles or about a 17 minute walk from 11th and Howard it’s a little outside the 0.5 mile/15 minute rule of thumb.

How? I live in Midtown Crossing, we also want to shop there, so it's am easy compromise for the whole urban core stated for development, from 48th OMA to 35th CB

The physical location is a decent balance between midtown and downtown, but it won't be walkable for many downtown residents. So it's not really a compromise when the idea for it was to be an urban grocer and it doesn't lend itself well to urban-oriented accessibility. It's going to be more auto-oriented than it should be.

Its going to be a 10 minute walk, I live in Midtown, which is currently detached from downtown because of those ugly empty lots (which will become active soon with development) and I am not complaining that it is not walkable, anywhere in downtown and midtown is walkable. Now look at west omaha with their giant streets and parking lot jungles and then we can talk about unwalkability.

The Civic square will have small streets, which in the future when our public transit is secure, they can easily be converted to pedestrian only streets. At this point and age, it is important that the site attracts the most customers so that its a success

[TitosBuritoBarn]

My main concern with this development is that the grocery is a little past comfortable walking distance from the Old Market and other residential parts of downtown Omaha. Ideally people could walk to it to pick up a few things rather than jump in their car, but at 0.8 miles or about a 17 minute walk from 11th and Howard it’s a little outside the 0.5 mile/15 minute rule of thumb.

How? I live in Midtown Crossing, we also want to shop there, so it's am easy compromise for the whole urban core stated for development, from 48th OMA to 35th CB

The physical location is a decent balance between midtown and downtown, but it won't be walkable for many downtown residents. So it's not really a compromise when the idea for it was to be an urban grocer and it doesn't lend itself well to urban-oriented accessibility. It's going to be more auto-oriented than it should be.

Its going to be a 10 minute walk, I live in Midtown, which is currently detached from downtown because of those ugly empty lots (which will become active soon with development) and I am not complaining that it is not walkable, anywhere in downtown and midtown is walkable. Now look at west omaha with their giant streets and parking lot jungles and then we can talk about unwalkability.

The Civic square will have small streets, which in the future when our public transit is secure, they can easily be converted to pedestrian only streets. At this point and age, it is important that the site attracts the most customers so that its a success

For you it may be fine to walk there, but not everyone will feel that way. A half mile is the standard threshold for picking between walking and driving for most people. Midtown Crossing is 1.3 miles away from where the grocery is set to go on the Civic site. Most from Midtown will choose to drive there. It's not going to deter them to go there if it's another half mile or so closer to where residential is denser.

Midtown also already has a Wohlner's.

[Renovator2559]

My main concern with this development is that the grocery is a little past comfortable walking distance from the Old Market and other residential parts of downtown Omaha. Ideally people could walk to it to pick up a few things rather than jump in their car, but at 0.8 miles or about a 17 minute walk from 11th and Howard it’s a little outside the 0.5 mile/15 minute rule of thumb.

How? I live in Midtown Crossing, we also want to shop there, so it's am easy compromise for the whole urban core stated for development, from 48th OMA to 35th CB

The physical location is a decent balance between midtown and downtown, but it won't be walkable for many downtown residents. So it's not really a compromise when the idea for it was to be an urban grocer and it doesn't lend itself well to urban-oriented accessibility. It's going to be more auto-oriented than it should be.

Its going to be a 10 minute walk, I live in Midtown, which is currently detached from downtown because of those ugly empty lots (which will become active soon with development) and I am not complaining that it is not walkable, anywhere in downtown and midtown is walkable. Now look at west omaha with their giant streets and parking lot jungles and then we can talk about unwalkability.

The Civic square will have small streets, which in the future when our public transit is secure, they can easily be converted to pedestrian only streets. At this point and age, it is important that the site attracts the most customers so that its a success

For you it may be fine to walk there, but not everyone will feel that way. A half mile is the standard threshold for picking between walking and driving for most people. Midtown Crossing is 1.3 miles away from where the grocery is set to go on the Civic site. Most from Midtown will choose to drive there. It's not going to deter them to go there if it's another half mile or so closer to where residential is denser.

Midtown also already has a Wohlner's.

Streetcar is passing through Midtown crossing and the stop will be nearby Civic Square... it doesn't matter if its 1.3 M, the distance is short; a short distance of walking is good for the health. While we have Wohler's, its good to have options and plus the Civic Square store will be bigger.

Again, the Civic Square store is meant to serve the urban core, not just downtown...

[TitosBuritoBarn]

Streetcar is passing through Midtown crossing and the stop will be nearby Civic Square... it doesn't matter if its 1.3 M, the distance is short; a short distance of walking is good for the health. While we have Wohler's, its good to have options and plus the Civic Square store will be bigger.

Again, the Civic Square store is meant to serve the urban core, not just downtown...

Again, a lot of people will drive there because not everyone will walk more than half a mile. That's my point. How you feel about walking and how most people feel about walking is different.

[Renovator2559]

Streetcar is passing through Midtown crossing and the stop will be nearby Civic Square... it doesn't matter if its 1.3 M, the distance is short; a short distance of walking is good for the health. While we have Wohler's, its good to have options and plus the Civic Square store will be bigger.

Again, the Civic Square store is meant to serve the urban core, not just downtown...

Again, a lot of people will drive there because not everyone will walk more than half a mile. That's my point. How you feel about walking and how most people feel about walking is different.

As I have emphasized, "Streetcar" people don't have to walk a 1.3 mile

[TitosBuritoBarn]

Streetcar is passing through Midtown crossing and the stop will be nearby Civic Square... it doesn't matter if its 1.3 M, the distance is short; a short distance of walking is good for the health. While we have Wohler's, its good to have options and plus the Civic Square store will be bigger.

Again, the Civic Square store is meant to serve the urban core, not just downtown...

Again, a lot of people will drive there because not everyone will walk more than half a mile. That's my point. How you feel about walking and how most people feel about walking is different.

As I have emphasized, "Streetcar" people don't have to walk a 1.3 mile

Not everyone will be on the streetcar line.

[Renovator2559]

Streetcar is passing through Midtown crossing and the stop will be nearby Civic Square... it doesn't matter if its 1.3 M, the distance is short; a short distance of walking is good for the health. While we have Wohler's, its good to have options and plus the Civic Square store will be bigger.

Again, the Civic Square store is meant to serve the urban core, not just downtown...

Again, a lot of people will drive there because not everyone will walk more than half a mile. That's my point. How you feel about walking and how most people feel about walking is different.

As I have emphasized, "Streetcar" people don't have to walk a 1.3 mile

Not everyone will be on the streetcar line.

But midtown crossing will be and the second phase will extend to N/S to North 30th as well as into CB.
Also, anyone 2 and 3 blocks away from the line can walk, this is not sprawling west omaha.

[Dusty]

Again, a lot of people will drive there because not everyone will walk more than half a mile. That's my point. How you feel about walking and how most people feel about walking is different.

As I have emphasized, "Streetcar" people don't have to walk a 1.3 mile

If you get off at 20th and Farnam proposed streetcar stop, it's just shy of 1/2 a mile to Northern side of lot. This is workable for most. Don't forget we have standard buses running up Capitol and surrounding areas as well.

Keep in mind, most quick trips will to be to grab a few things. Nothing too cumbersome to carry. For bigger trips, I emphasized heavily before bike and cargo bike parking. If you want to pickup a ton of groceries as walker, then push a stroller and pull a kids wagon. Same mindset as a cargo bike serves.

Also, grocery shopping has changed over the years. Many order online and pick up and go. Since these spots turn over so quickly, we CAN get away with less overall parking spaces for cars. Many larger grocers also offer delivery services as well.

[Dusty]

As I have emphasized, "Streetcar" people don't have to walk a 1.3 mile

Not everyone will be on the streetcar line.

A while back I described this lot as tucked in a corner or in the corner pocket. It's not on the direct transit line and will deter some from walking to this lot. For some, it's not a big deal, but for others it's way too far. This feeds into TitoBurritoBarn's point.
For some, it's too much hassle to jump on transit/walk and they would much rather drive.

We discussed this before, but it might be advantageous to additionally attract a smaller grocer on the other side of downtown (Leavenworth). This would help balance out the walk factor for some. I'm talking an Aldi or Trader Joes size.

[Renovator2559]

As I have emphasized, "Streetcar" people don't have to walk a 1.3 mile

Not everyone will be on the streetcar line.

A while back I described this lot as tucked in a corner or in the corner pocket. It's not on the direct transit line and will deter some from walking to this lot. For some, it's not a big deal, but for others it's way too far. This feeds into TitoBurritoBarn's point.
For some, it's too much hassle to jump on transit/walk and they would much rather drive.

We discussed this before, but it might be advantageous to additionally attract a smaller grocer on the other side of downtown (Leavenworth). This would help balance out the walk factor for some. I'm talking an Aldi or Trader Joes size.

I get it there are still some people that will be inclined to drive, but the main important thing is that there will be a reduction in car usage, as well as not many people clogging the streets of Saddle creek and CB. It encourages a cultural shift into less car dependency, afterall a reduction of car dependency goes in stages and we are on our way of having a better transit network as well.

Of course I am with you on that, the more network of grocers we have the better, possibly a Cubby's expansion.

[Louie]

As I have emphasized, "Streetcar" people don't have to walk a 1.3 mile

Not everyone will be on the streetcar line.

A while back I described this lot as tucked in a corner or in the corner pocket. It's not on the direct transit line and will deter some from walking to this lot. For some, it's not a big deal, but for others it's way too far. This feeds into TitoBurritoBarn's point.
For some, it's too much hassle to jump on transit/walk and they would much rather drive.

We discussed this before, but it might be advantageous to additionally attract a smaller grocer on the other side of downtown (Leavenworth). This would help balance out the walk factor for some. I'm talking an Aldi or Trader Joes size.

I get it there are still some people that will be inclined to drive, but the main important thing is that there will be a reduction in car usage, as well as not many people clogging the streets of Saddle creek and CB. It encourages a cultural shift into less car dependency, afterall a reduction of car dependency goes in stages and we are on our way of having a better transit network as well.

Of course I am with you on that, the more network of grocers we have the better, possibly a Cubby's expansion.

A real attack on the car-centric would would be if cubbys ripped out their gas pumps and expanded all the way to 13th.

[iamjacobm]

My Jewel in Chicago was a .5 mile walk. It was about the limit before fully loaded bags would start to wear on you and I'm a (relatively) young able-bodied person. I wouldn't have wanted to have a mile walk each way at all. This walk was also completely flat and on a very pleasant corridor with a two-lane road. A walk approaching a mile dealing with Omaha's hills and likely walking along Dodge or Douglas...pass.

Cargo bikes, maybe they are getting more popular, but I don't think they would represent more than a tiny fraction of the shoppers at a grocer here. I saw maybe a handful of people use them at my Jewel and that was as mentioned a dense bike/ped friendly location. I don't see that becoming a major player for but a dedicated few here. What I did see were a LOT of people using those fold-up wagons. That wouldn't be pleasant for a long walk though.

As for supplementing transit for a grocery trip, I guess a few might. I did a couple of hauls on the L and I didn't really like to do it if I could avoid it. I wasn't worried of getting robbed or anything, just found it kind of cumbersome.

Would be very happy for a grocer downtown, I just don't love this location. I do think any grocer downtown is probably still going to do their bulk of sales to those driving by a wide margin. That is ok, it would be fine if people downtown/downtown adjacent drive in instead of going out to Saddle Creek or Council Bluffs and those that have the opportunity to walk/ride to get there can.

[Garrett]

My Jewel in Chicago was a .5 mile walk. It was about the limit before fully loaded bags would start to wear on you and I'm a (relatively) young able-bodied person. I wouldn't have wanted to have a mile walk each way at all. This walk was also completely flat and on a very pleasant corridor with a two-lane road. A walk approaching a mile dealing with Omaha's hills and likely walking along Dodge or Douglas...pass.

Cargo bikes, maybe they are getting more popular, but I don't think they would represent more than a tiny fraction of the shoppers at a grocer here. I saw maybe a handful of people use them at my Jewel and that was as mentioned a dense bike/ped friendly location. I don't see that becoming a major player for but a dedicated few here. What I did see were a LOT of people using those fold-up wagons. That wouldn't be pleasant for a long walk though.

As for supplementing transit for a grocery trip, I guess a few might. I did a couple of hauls on the L and I didn't really like to do it if I could avoid it. I wasn't worried of getting robbed or anything, just found it kind of cumbersome.

Would be very happy for a grocer downtown, I just don't love this location. I do think any grocer downtown is probably still going to do their bulk of sales to those driving by a wide margin. That is ok, it would be fine if people downtown/downtown adjacent drive in instead of going out to Saddle Creek or Council Bluffs and those that have the opportunity to walk/ride to get there can.

Yeah my walk to the market is about a quarter mile here in NYC and that's definitely pleasantly manageable and allows me to only shop for a meal or two at a time or do general snackish run.

[NEDodger]

Some hate the plan, some love it. Driving home past the area from the baseball game tonight, I will say this: This hopefully pushes momentum to get a residential/hotel high-rise on the old Union Pacific lot.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

My Jewel in Chicago was a .5 mile walk. It was about the limit before fully loaded bags would start to wear on you and I'm a (relatively) young able-bodied person. I wouldn't have wanted to have a mile walk each way at all. This walk was also completely flat and on a very pleasant corridor with a two-lane road. A walk approaching a mile dealing with Omaha's hills and likely walking along Dodge or Douglas...pass.

Cargo bikes, maybe they are getting more popular, but I don't think they would represent more than a tiny fraction of the shoppers at a grocer here. I saw maybe a handful of people use them at my Jewel and that was as mentioned a dense bike/ped friendly location. I don't see that becoming a major player for but a dedicated few here. What I did see were a LOT of people using those fold-up wagons. That wouldn't be pleasant for a long walk though.

As for supplementing transit for a grocery trip, I guess a few might. I did a couple of hauls on the L and I didn't really like to do it if I could avoid it. I wasn't worried of getting robbed or anything, just found it kind of cumbersome.

Would be very happy for a grocer downtown, I just don't love this location. I do think any grocer downtown is probably still going to do their bulk of sales to those driving by a wide margin. That is ok, it would be fine if people downtown/downtown adjacent drive in instead of going out to Saddle Creek or Council Bluffs and those that have the opportunity to walk/ride to get there can.

Yeah my walk to the market is about a quarter mile here in NYC and that's definitely pleasantly manageable and allows me to only shop for a meal or two at a time or do general snackish run.

When I was in Chicago the closest full service grocery store was a half mile away. I enjoyed walking around my neighborhood (Wicker Park) but that just felt too far. I would instead do my bigger grocery shopping on my way home from work. Otherwise I was about a minute walk from Wicker Park Walgreens and would go there for anything else I needed. Among the many things I miss about Chicago, one of the top was the pleasant, short walk to any number of shops and restaurants in either of the two neighborhoods I lived in.

[Athomsfere]

My Jewel in Chicago was a .5 mile walk. It was about the limit before fully loaded bags would start to wear on you and I'm a (relatively) young able-bodied person. I wouldn't have wanted to have a mile walk each way at all. This walk was also completely flat and on a very pleasant corridor with a two-lane road. A walk approaching a mile dealing with Omaha's hills and likely walking along Dodge or Douglas...pass.

Cargo bikes, maybe they are getting more popular, but I don't think they would represent more than a tiny fraction of the shoppers at a grocer here. I saw maybe a handful of people use them at my Jewel and that was as mentioned a dense bike/ped friendly location. I don't see that becoming a major player for but a dedicated few here. What I did see were a LOT of people using those fold-up wagons. That wouldn't be pleasant for a long walk though.

As for supplementing transit for a grocery trip, I guess a few might. I did a couple of hauls on the L and I didn't really like to do it if I could avoid it. I wasn't worried of getting robbed or anything, just found it kind of cumbersome.

Would be very happy for a grocer downtown, I just don't love this location. I do think any grocer downtown is probably still going to do their bulk of sales to those driving by a wide margin. That is ok, it would be fine if people downtown/downtown adjacent drive in instead of going out to Saddle Creek or Council Bluffs and those that have the opportunity to walk/ride to get there can.

In Japan or Europe, I would walk to the store of the hassle of a cargo bike too. But when you have grocery stores every few blocks, it just makes sense.

If this gets built, it fills a huge hole in the lives of those living downtown. But it leaves some small holes. Like from the Old Market or even MTC if you need something Wohlners is missing.

As you've alluded to, how people work around those gaps will vary person to person. I think at least some will choose the bike. Especially as you get outside that golden half mile.

[OracleOfOmaha]

We need parking for the grocery store to work.

From what I can tell, they aren't building a large parking lot. That is a big win.

They should convert part of the first floor of the existing parking garage to Grocery Parking only to help.

This grocery store will also help serve those in near north Omaha who have very few options for decent grocers. Too far of a walk, especially in winter, for those who would have a quick 5-10 minute drive.

And giving a mother of 3 the only option to walk, buy a cargo bike, or load a family's worth of groceries on a bus...should be an option, not a requirement.

Adding parking doesn't stop one from walking or riding transit, but it does make the store more viable and increase likelihood of original investment and sustained success. A successful grocery downtown will spring more residential development in the core.

Really hope this gets done!!

[Dusty]

I am not pushing for a car-free design. I agree we need parking for cars. But I have been pushing the bike parking and walkability factor in an attempt to have balanced options. This will still look and feel a lot different than what we are used to (sprawling surface lots for cars only). I said from the beginning we can have limited parking on the lot itself if we can open up the city garages next to them for additional parking. Why build tons of parking when you can utilize this?

This is great bargaining power. The city wants a downtown grocery. The developer wants access to these city garages. Let's make a deal!

As I have stated before, I would love to see a superblock concept with a public space in the center. The developer really wants to add the grid back with street parking for cars. I found some pictures that captures both elements. I sent this to the developer. Hopefully, they will consider the design.

Streets are added back into the center in a cross layout. In the center, you have a large roundabout so cars can come through. Inside the roundabout is a public space that could have: seating, fountains, green space, etc. I attached pictures of a closeup of this and a zoomed out view of the superblocks. I added a third to show parking. Red lines are street parking for cars. Blue lines are pedestrian streets or oversized alleyways. This is where we have bike parking. Even if this concept was only 5 stories tall, the compact design adds a ton of density.

[Garrett]

I am not pushing for a car-free design. I agree we need parking for cars. But I have been pushing the bike parking and walkability factor in an attempt to have balanced options. This will still look and feel a lot different than what we are used to (sprawling surface lots for cars only). I said from the beginning we can have limited parking on the lot itself if we can open up the city garages next to them for additional parking. Why build tons of parking when you can utilize this?

This is great bargaining power. The city wants a downtown grocery. The developer wants access to these city garages. Let's make a deal!

As I have stated before, I would love to see a superblock concept with a public space in the center. The developer really wants to add the grid back with street parking for cars. I found some pictures that captures both elements. I sent this to the developer. Hopefully, they will consider the design.

Streets are added back into the center in a cross layout. In the center, you have a large roundabout so cars can come through. Inside the roundabout is a public space that could have: seating, fountains, green space, etc. I attached pictures of a closeup of this and a zoomed out view of the superblocks. I added a third to show parking. Red lines are street parking for cars. Blue lines are pedestrian streets or oversized alleyways. This is where we have bike parking. Even if this concept was only 5 stories tall, the compact design adds a ton of density.

Interesting. What’s the scale of that block to the Civic? It seems quite a bit larger

[Dusty]

Interesting. What’s the scale of that block to the Civic? It seems quite a bit larger

It's hard to say from the pictures, but we can size it accordingly. Add Davenport and 18th Street back into the grid. It matches up perfect with the layout. This means each building is roughly 1/2 a block by 1/2 a block.

The center cross would be wider for cars. Each of the 4 quadrants would be built tighter together to create the pedestrian passageways.

[Athomsfere]

I am not pushing for a car-free design. I agree we need parking for cars. But I have been pushing the bike parking and walkability factor in an attempt to have balanced options. This will still look and feel a lot different than what we are used to (sprawling surface lots for cars only). I said from the beginning we can have limited parking on the lot itself if we can open up the city garages next to them for additional parking. Why build tons of parking when you can utilize this?

This is great bargaining power. The city wants a downtown grocery. The developer wants access to these city garages. Let's make a deal!

As I have stated before, I would love to see a superblock concept with a public space in the center. The developer really wants to add the grid back with street parking for cars. I found some pictures that captures both elements. I sent this to the developer. Hopefully, they will consider the design.

Streets are added back into the center in a cross layout. In the center, you have a large roundabout so cars can come through. Inside the roundabout is a public space that could have: seating, fountains, green space, etc. I attached pictures of a closeup of this and a zoomed out view of the superblocks. I added a third to show parking. Red lines are street parking for cars. Blue lines are pedestrian streets or oversized alleyways. This is where we have bike parking. Even if this concept was only 5 stories tall, the compact design adds a ton of density.

Interesting. What’s the scale of that block to the Civic? It seems quite a bit larger

Those look like Barcelona's super blocks. Sorry if Dusty said the location. I just saw the pictures and sort of went "Here we go, superblocks again" and skimmed past.

Barcelona's super blocks are 400m * 400m.

[Dusty]

I am not pushing for a car-free design. I agree we need parking for cars. But I have been pushing the bike parking and walkability factor in an attempt to have balanced options. This will still look and feel a lot different than what we are used to (sprawling surface lots for cars only). I said from the beginning we can have limited parking on the lot itself if we can open up the city garages next to them for additional parking. Why build tons of parking when you can utilize this?

This is great bargaining power. The city wants a downtown grocery. The developer wants access to these city garages. Let's make a deal!

As I have stated before, I would love to see a superblock concept with a public space in the center. The developer really wants to add the grid back with street parking for cars. I found some pictures that captures both elements. I sent this to the developer. Hopefully, they will consider the design.

Streets are added back into the center in a cross layout. In the center, you have a large roundabout so cars can come through. Inside the roundabout is a public space that could have: seating, fountains, green space, etc. I attached pictures of a closeup of this and a zoomed out view of the superblocks. I added a third to show parking. Red lines are street parking for cars. Blue lines are pedestrian streets or oversized alleyways. This is where we have bike parking. Even if this concept was only 5 stories tall, the compact design adds a ton of density.

Interesting. What’s the scale of that block to the Civic? It seems quite a bit larger

Those look like Barcelona's super blocks. Sorry if Dusty said the location. I just saw the pictures and sort of went "Here we go, superblocks again" and skimmed past.

Barcelona's super blocks are 400m * 400m.

Yes, it's a picture of a Barcelona superblock. I wanted to find a design that resembled the features the developer is looking for. It was less about exact size or 3x3 configuration. If we ask for the moon, they will build exactly what they want.
If you propose slight changes, they might consider making those changes.

They really want to add the grid back and line street parking down those streets. My picture shows a design they can do that. But I want them to add pedestrian streets to add a mix of urban design. They don't want to go super high with stories. Fine...then build it closer together to create density. I wanted a public square, but not sure they will have the space. So I compromised by saying you can have an oversized roundabout if you build a public space in the center.

It's all about giving them what they want but adding an urban twist.

[Athomsfere]

Not sure how you would scale back these superblocks to the roughly 200m lot. And without the connectivity there, it might be a step too far.

The lots near MTC could maybe be a better fit.

And I will also say, not sure I think this couldn't work at the Civic site, but I think its a much more challenging lot to try to break out of the USA mold on. Riskier for other projects to try and do the same later too, if this one fell flat.

[PWL73316]

I appreciate the ambition but just have to laugh every time an American is like 'let's build Barcelona.'

[Athomsfere]

I appreciate the ambition but just have to laugh every time an American is like 'let's build Barcelona.'

To be fair, a lot of these cities and countries did make the choices at some point to get there.

Amsterdam in the 60s / 70s
Japan in the 40s/ 50s

And Barcelonas "superblocks" or superillas are from ~2008 or ~2014. (Depending on which origin you look at)

The fact that the US chose the single worst way to build cities 80 years ago doesn't mean we can't start doing better now. Whether that inspiration is Spain, or anywhere else doesn't matter.

[Dusty]

I appreciate the ambition but just have to laugh every time an American is like 'let's build Barcelona.'

To be fair, a lot of these cities and countries did make the choices at some point to get there.

Amsterdam in the 60s / 70s
Japan in the 40s/ 50s

And Barcelonas "superblocks" or superillas are from ~2008 or ~2014. (Depending on which origin you look at)

The fact that the US chose the single worst way to build cities 80 years ago doesn't mean we can't start doing better now. Whether that inspiration is Spain, or anywhere else doesn't matter.

Change happens when someone is bold enough to speak up and share their ideas. Being ambitious is a good thing. Otherwise, we are stuck in a rut building the same boring designs.

Not sure if anyone else got feedback, but the developer did respond to me. The loved the superblock concept, but can't pursue a denser design unless they can work a deal with the city to utilize the adjacent parking garages. They are still actively trying to work a deal with them. So anything is possible!

Who knows? Maybe they will use one element of my design like a public space or pedestrian streets. It would be a big win for all of us. This only creates momentum for other developers to build and expand those ideas.

[Renovator2559]

I appreciate the ambition but just have to laugh every time an American is like 'let's build Barcelona.'

To be fair, a lot of these cities and countries did make the choices at some point to get there.

Amsterdam in the 60s / 70s
Japan in the 40s/ 50s

And Barcelonas "superblocks" or superillas are from ~2008 or ~2014. (Depending on which origin you look at)

The fact that the US chose the single worst way to build cities 80 years ago doesn't mean we can't start doing better now. Whether that inspiration is Spain, or anywhere else doesn't matter.

Change happens when someone is bold enough to speak up and share their ideas. Being ambitious is a good thing. Otherwise, we are stuck in a rut building the same boring designs.

Not sure if anyone else got feedback, but the developer did respond to me. The loved the superblock concept, but can't pursue a denser design unless they can work a deal with the city to utilize the adjacent parking garages. They are still actively trying to work a deal with them. So anything is possible!

Who knows? Maybe they will use one element of my design like a public space or pedestrian streets. It would be a big win for all of us. This only creates momentum for other developers to build and expand those ideas.

Wow, kuddos for your initiative in seeding their planning with ideas that have been a success. Let's not forget that the initial renders of the Riverfront, were not bold enough and the parks looked cheap, now the revised Riverfront renders look amazing and bold!

So can the Civic Square!

[ita]

https://planning.cityofomaha.org/images ... une/20.pdf

Preliminary Plat approval. Nothing super exciting. For some reason, when I they revealed they were introducing the grid into the development, I was thinking Davenport was going to go from 19th to 17th. Completely forgot that the parking garage doesn't allow that. Also, while the vehicular grid is welcome and, according to the developer, needed, the new ROW is composed of 77k sq. ft. I get retailers want parking in front of storefronts, but if they made it a bike/ped. accessible grid, they could of had an additional 30-50k sq. ft. to use for development (based on 20-40 foot wide ROW). Streets are planned for this square, so it's just a thought.