The Line (City of the Future?)

[stormchaser]

Ignore the fact this is being developed in Saudi Arabia and any politics, opinions, etc associated with that fact.

This is an interesting concept for a city of the future being worked on called "The Line". It would be able to hold 9 million residents on less than 1/5th of the urban footprint - and you'd be able to get to anywhere in the city in less than 20 minutes (maybe even less than 10?).

Its debatable if such a city is realistic but then it also reminds me of one of my favorite quotes - "To achieve the impossible, you have to think the unthinkable".

Interesting stuff anyway...

[Garrett]

It’s stupid.

[stormchaser]

It’s stupid.

Not really a very constructive comment but in your opinion anyway. To develop new concepts and ideas, there will always be people who believe the ideas are stupid...until they become reality. Many people thought flight was stupid. Many people thought going to the moon was stupid. Saying something like this is stupid is EXTREMELY short sighted IMO. Is the concept realistic? No idea, but it's still outside of the box and will hopefully drive real change for future development projects.

[Louie]

Yeah, this is a ridiculous concept. Another in a long line of billionaire funded 'utopias'. Adam Something had a great break down of the issues with it here:

[stormchaser]

Again, I'm not saying it's a realistic concept (I'm not part of the team trying develop it). That doesn't mean realistic ideas, etc can't come from it.

[Garrett]

What new ideas does this offer exactly? What brand new things does a big |expletive| glass building stretching for hundreds of miles in the desert offer? It’s another Saudi mega project with little regard for the environment that surrounds it that MBS is using for some weird international clout.

[stormchaser]

What new ideas does this offer exactly? What brand new things does a big |expletive| glass building stretching for hundreds of miles in the desert offer? It’s another Saudi mega project with little regard for the environment that surrounds it that MBS is using for some weird international clout.

Watch the video. I'd argue a city of 9 million is going to decimate the environment regardless but having a smaller urban footprint, possibly to a lesser degree (no idea since I'm not doing the research but just speculating).

Its clear to me that many are simply viewing this as another "Saudi mega project" and forming biases and opinions simply based on that instead of putting those biases aside and actually realizing that outside the box thinking is what will drive real change in the future. It shouldn't matter where it comes from. It shouldn't matter how whacky it seems.

[stormchaser]

I'll also add this though I don't want to steer this off topic too much, I'm just pointing out one of many biases people seem to have (this one was found in the video Louie shared above).

I find it laughable as Americans how we have this notion that the Government isn't somehow tracking our every move here or that it's somehow different/better. Our cellphones, social media, cameras, etc. That's a middle eastern/communist thing - right? Because we have freedoms here - right?

[ita]

I haven't watched the video in its entirety. Does someone know why car free, vertical city isn't being implemented in some other shape than a line? It seems like stretching out the incredibly dense footprint would more negatively affect the environment because it's extending the reach of human influence in areas where humans would otherwise not be. Does that make sense? Like they could do this right on the coast of the Gulf of Aqaba or the Red Sea like concentric rows or something and not have to intrude into untouched landscapes. I know they are trying to minimize environmental impacts by making it invisible or whatever, but they are still introducing humans where they currently aren't there and the systems they think will lessen environmental impact have to be perfect. Once they break or stop working, what happens then? What if the HVAC system to keep people cool in the middle of a desert stops working in one of the sections? What if the water system fails for several sections? It feels like they are spreading/sprawling out unnecessarily.

[Louie]

I find it laughable as Americans how we have this notion that the Government isn't somehow tracking our every move here or that it's somehow different/better. Our cellphones, social media, cameras, etc. That's a middle eastern/communist thing - right? Because we have freedoms here - right?

Well, the US isn't killing people over eminent domain so there's that: https://www.vice.com/en/article/5d3kkd/ ... itat-tribe

[stormchaser]

I find it laughable as Americans how we have this notion that the Government isn't somehow tracking our every move here or that it's somehow different/better. Our cellphones, social media, cameras, etc. That's a middle eastern/communist thing - right? Because we have freedoms here - right?

Well, the US isn't killing people over eminent domain so there's that: https://www.vice.com/en/article/5d3kkd/ ... itat-tribe

I get that, I'm just saying from a monitoring standpoint it's no different here...

[stormchaser]

I haven't watched the video in its entirety. Does someone know why car free, vertical city isn't being implemented in some other shape than a line? It seems like stretching out the incredibly dense footprint would more negatively affect the environment because it's extending the reach of human influence in areas where humans would otherwise not be. Does that make sense? Like they could do this right on the coast of the Gulf of Aqaba or the Red Sea like concentric rows or something and not have to intrude into untouched landscapes. I know they are trying to minimize environmental impacts by making it invisible or whatever, but they are still introducing humans where they currently aren't there and the systems they think will lessen environmental impact have to be perfect. Once they break or stop working, what happens then? What if the HVAC system to keep people cool in the middle of a desert stops working in one of the sections? What if the water system fails for several sections? It feels like they are spreading/sprawling out unnecessarily.

Lots of good questions here and all things the team is trying to figure out I'm sure. Personally I don't think a linear design is realistic like this and building something this way will introduce all kinds of additional problems (like you said). I do know part of the thought process with building where they are building is the concern that this desert landscape may be more "normal" for Earth in the future...

[Louie]

I find it laughable as Americans how we have this notion that the Government isn't somehow tracking our every move here or that it's somehow different/better. Our cellphones, social media, cameras, etc. That's a middle eastern/communist thing - right? Because we have freedoms here - right?

Well, the US isn't killing people over eminent domain so there's that: https://www.vice.com/en/article/5d3kkd/ ... itat-tribe

I get that, I'm just saying from a monitoring standpoint it's no different here...

Yeah, I'm much less worried about government monitoring and anyone who thinks they aren't being monitored is a fool. It's the action on that monitoring that is the difference. And it's a huge difference. With a theocracy like SA's there is nothing standing in the way of death sentences in the name of blasphemy. And they have proven that thousands of times.

[stormchaser]

I find it laughable as Americans how we have this notion that the Government isn't somehow tracking our every move here or that it's somehow different/better. Our cellphones, social media, cameras, etc. That's a middle eastern/communist thing - right? Because we have freedoms here - right?

Well, the US isn't killing people over eminent domain so there's that: https://www.vice.com/en/article/5d3kkd/ ... itat-tribe

I get that, I'm just saying from a monitoring standpoint it's no different here...

Yeah, I'm much less worried about government monitoring and anyone who thinks they aren't being monitored is a fool. It's the action on that monitoring that is the difference. And it's a huge difference. With a theocracy like SA's there is nothing standing in the way of death sentences in the name of blasphemy. And they have proven that thousands of times.

I agree. Hopefully something similar never happens here.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

What new ideas does this offer exactly? What brand new things does a big |expletive| glass building stretching for hundreds of miles in the desert offer? It’s another Saudi mega project with little regard for the environment that surrounds it that MBS is using for some weird international clout.

Watch the video. I'd argue a city of 9 million is going to decimate the environment regardless but having a smaller urban footprint, possibly to a lesser degree (no idea since I'm not doing the research but just speculating).

Its clear to me that many are simply viewing this as another "Saudi mega project" and forming biases and opinions simply based on that instead of putting those biases aside and actually realizing that outside the box thinking is what will drive real change in the future. It shouldn't matter where it comes from. It shouldn't matter how whacky it seems.

All the reasons why this won't work are discussed in the Adam Something video. Many of these "new" ideas have been thought of before and haven't worked. We've been building cities for thousands of years. In that time, their general form hasn't changed much for good reason.

Basically, this sort of city design would cause severe mental health problems for most of the residents (waaay too dense, lack of access to the sun unless you live on top of the structure) and its linear fashion is susceptible to domino and chaotic failures of various city systems. If a train on the single, linear subway line goes down, the entire subway system for this city of 9 million is impacted. And are all amenities cut and pasted every few miles? What's if the amenity you want to go to is on the other side of the city? Now you might have to travel upwards of 100 miles across an incredibly dense city.

[stormchaser]

What new ideas does this offer exactly? What brand new things does a big |expletive| glass building stretching for hundreds of miles in the desert offer? It’s another Saudi mega project with little regard for the environment that surrounds it that MBS is using for some weird international clout.

Watch the video. I'd argue a city of 9 million is going to decimate the environment regardless but having a smaller urban footprint, possibly to a lesser degree (no idea since I'm not doing the research but just speculating).

Its clear to me that many are simply viewing this as another "Saudi mega project" and forming biases and opinions simply based on that instead of putting those biases aside and actually realizing that outside the box thinking is what will drive real change in the future. It shouldn't matter where it comes from. It shouldn't matter how whacky it seems.

All the reasons why this won't work are discussed in the Adam Something video. Many of these "new" ideas have been thought of before and haven't worked. We've been building cities for thousands of years. In that time, their general form hasn't changed much for good reason.

Basically, this sort of city design would cause severe mental health problems for most of the residents (waaay too dense, lack of access to the sun unless you live on top of the structure) and its linear fashion is susceptible to domino and chaotic failures of various city systems. If a train on the single, linear subway line goes down, the entire subway system for this city of 9 million is impacted. And are all amenities cut and pasted every few miles? What's if the amenity you want to go to is on the other side of the city? Now you might have to travel upwards of 100 miles across an incredibly dense city.

Touche, I don't disagree.

[Renovator2559]

The Line, just another megaproject doomed to fail. Saudi Arabia is notorious for having many megaprojects that fail. The Jeddah tower which was supposed to be the tallest building was abandoned and the city being built around it was abandoned.

Not only is the Line being considered, if I am not mistaken there are other equally expensive projects like the Mukaab, Trojena, Oxagon

Pangeos a mega-yatch for the uber wealthy

All for a total of $1 trillion

What else can you do in a desert country where you cough up sand breathe sand, and are oil rich, than to build a city with imported migrant slaves paid very poorly and human rights abuses being committed.

Same thing with Dubai, it is a city that does above and beyond on materialism and excesses, building flashy palm islands that fail while holding migrants hostage and in poor living conditions.

There's nothing wrong with being bold and visionary but first, build a record of getting things done and pay your workers adequately and not treat them like slaves.

[Athomsfere]

Oh man, I missed this thread!

This concept is absolutely stupid.

I mean, good on them for not just wanting to do what the US does with modified towers in the park. Highrises to endless to sprawl.

I'm glad that they are at least attempting to address a lot of issues like land scarcity, renewables etc..

But the line? It's almost like someone asked "What's the worst possible shape for a city?", and when the response was "A line.". All the the developer heard was "A line city".

A smart concept was the Shimuzu Mega Pyramid. It scales better, and allows smarter transit in 3d rather than 2d.

In short: Shapes that are better than the line: Sphere, Cube, Pyramid, other odd 3d shapes, a circle, or a square.

[ricko]

Every time I come across a story about Saudi Arabia, my mind drifts and I can’t help thinking about Jamal Kashoggi, a reporter for the Washington Post who was literally liquidated on orders from the Saudi government. This, in a nutshell, highlights the moral depravity of the Saudi ruling elite.

City of the (dystopian) future.

[Louie]

Every time I come across a story about Saudi Arabia, my mind drifts and I can’t help thinking about Jamal Kashoggi, a reporter for the Washington Post who was literally liquidated on orders from the Saudi government. This, in a nutshell, highlights the moral depravity of the Saudi ruling elite.

City of the (dystopian) future.

They already have the government for a dystopian future, just need the infrastructure…