Lincoln Airport (LNK)

[almighty_tuna]

I swear, half of that is just getting through Lincoln. I do not enjoy getting from one end of Lincoln to the other.

[Renovator2559]

Ann Arbor, Michigan, has no scheduled passenger service. It's marginally closer to the Detroit airport. Lincoln is within an hour of Omaha's airport. Ann Arbor is growing faster than Lincoln.

Ann Harbor is a much smaller city at ~122k and Lincoln at ~289k. Smaller cities tend to have a larger percentage growth during the beginning. Plus a majority of migrants are from the Detroit metro

Lincoln has a much better climate, way more sunny days and the comfortably climate index is much higher than Ann Harbor.

Lincoln along with Omaha both top many stats. The same cannot be said about the Detroit metro that has been on the decline for many decades now, though they are starting to repair some of the problems. Detroit has to do something with the corruption in their city government, its run like a mafia.

Ann Arbor metro is 372,000. Lincoln metro is 342,000.
Climate wise, they are somewhat similar but I've lived in suburban Detroit for just over 15 years and have been to Ann Arbor a lot. I tell people here that Omaha (and Lincoln) weather is Michigan weather on steroids. Hotter & more humid in the summer and colder, snowier & windier in the winter. I've never experienced the oppressive heat and humidity and the brutal winters in Michigan that I had in Nebraska. That's my experience.

Ann Arbor tops many more stats than Lincoln. I can't believe I'm defending Michigan as most of the time I have to defend Nebraska to people here. I won't even begin to compare the University of Michigan with UNL. Finally, as for Detroit, yes many problems and many of those are improving. Downtown Detroit is completely different than when we moved here. In a good way. METRO Detroit hasn''t been declining. Still over 4 million and a lot more stores, food, entertainment, sports than Nebraska.

Ann Harbor?

Ok you got me there in terms of metro area, so my previous point on population growth is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that Detroit residents are the majorily of people moving into Ann Harbor.

Both Omaha and Lincoln are growing rapidly, so they share growth between them.

Nebraska is a much newer state, some of us do not care about sports, which are not intellectually stimulating, a waste of time.

Omaha and Lincoln offer so much for their size, plus good urban fabrics that keep getting better, and plus I want to be able to walk at night and be safe.

Quality not Quantity

If I want to go for the big city, touristy things, I'll travel to places like Chicago or NYC not Detroit... Though even that is changing because those places are experiencing problems. I wouldn't want the associated baggage back home and I love the fact that I live in a state that is stable and resilient to any instability that other states experience.

Also your Michigan governor was very well known nationally for doing the wrong things.

Detroit is filled with neighborhoods that look abandanoned, Detroit declared bancrupcy a few years ago and they have a city government that needs to be cleaned of corruption.

Detroit is still losing population to other areas, so that in itself says many things about the state of Detroit. Detroit is always used as an example of a declining city. Sure they have done some improvements here and there but there is so much work that needs to be done.

Ann Harbor 6.7 and Lincoln 7.2 in climate confortability index.

[Linkin5]

Nvm, LNK has a respectable list of destination options doing well, plus not having the airport as is would, reduce business and growth of the city. We don't want that, we want Omaha and Lincoln to be strong cities.

LNK is surviving mainly by leasing land to warehousing and manufacturing. Passenger numbers are stagnating around 150-200K per year. In the unlikely event that passenger service suddenly vanished the city of Lincoln would be fine. Ann Arbor, Michigan, has no scheduled passenger service. It's marginally closer to the Detroit airport. Lincoln is within an hour of Omaha's airport. Ann Arbor is growing faster than Lincoln.

I simply don't see passenger service leaving Lincoln.

Lincoln to Epply as an hour's drive, is very optimistic for most of the residents of Lincoln.

If you are on the north side in Lincoln, its possible. But south of O St, its doubtful.

My Brother lives in S Lincoln. S of Hwy 2. It takes him about 1:45 to get from the driveway to parked at Omaha

Just made about the same drive this last week, your brother may be the slowest driver ever

[Bob from Omaha]

Ok you got me there in terms of metro area, so my previous point on population growth is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that Detroit residents are the majorily of people moving into Ann Harbor.

Both Omaha and Lincoln are growing rapidly, so they share growth between them.

Nebraska is a much newer state, some of us do not care about sports, which are not intellectually stimulating, a waste of time.

Omaha and Lincoln offer so much for their size, plus good urban fabrics that keep getting better, and plus I want to be able to walk at night and be safe.

Quality not Quantity

If I want to go for the big city, touristy things, I'll travel to places like Chicago or NYC not Detroit... Though even that is changing because those places are experiencing problems. I wouldn't want the associated baggage back home and I love the fact that I live in a state that is stable and resilient to any instability that other states experience.

Also your Michigan governor was very well known nationally for doing the wrong things.

Detroit is filled with neighborhoods that look abandanoned, Detroit declared bancrupcy a few years ago and they have a city government that needs to be cleaned of corruption.

Detroit is still losing population to other areas, so that in itself says many things about the state of Detroit. Detroit is always used as an example of a declining city. Sure they have done some improvements here and there but there is so much work that needs to be done.

Ok, well, the fact is that major league sports are a huge draw these days and bring millions into the local economy. All four major sports play downtown in Detroit in relatively new facilities. I have zero idea what Nebraska being a newer state has to do with anything. Every state west of the Mississippi is newer than those east of it. What's your point?

Michigan is surrounded by the great lakes. The recreational opportunities are amazing. And, over the past 15 years I've been downtown at literally all hours and never, ever, had a problem. AND we brought the kids. Yep there are areas that have crime. How's north Omaha and south Omaha these days? For what it's worth how late are the restaurants open in Omaha? Oh, and there is a full service, actual grocery store in downtown Detroit. Not to mention all the retail and housing. Billions have and are being spent downtown. I could go on.

In the end yes, I still consider myself an Omahan and a Nebraskan. Having said that I'm not moving back. Over 15 years I've gotten used to the amenities a large metro offers. World class museums, major league sports, all the stores (IKEA, Macys, Nordstrom, and on and on), an airport with a ton of international destinations and something like 30 million passengers a year, again, the great lakes. Some of the rebuttals on this board appear to be more justification than reasoned responses.

[Renovator2559]

If any of those things you mentioned mattered to me, I would move but I'm happy here, I'm happy with the long term stability of Nebraska and Omaha, yet I am not a native.

I can visit those large metros any time, without bringing the baggage of living in one of them.

I'm not stuck in the mindset of the grass is greener on the other side, with big city syndrome, I am grateful for all the things that Omaha, Lincoln and Nebraska offers. I would not trade any of the trivial "issues" that don't matter in the long term, for problems being faced by larger metros, especially from those states that have low education, high crime and instability and attract problematic people.

Our medium sized airport has the most common destinations covered, and international flights are low in the totem pole of priorities...

[Garrett]

… so how about that Lincoln Airport?

[Bob from Omaha]

… so how about that Lincoln Airport?

They need a Runza there. Then it would be world class.

[Mr.Nuke]

I was so focused on waiting on Lincoln's monthly numbers and didn't think to look at the reverse (i.e. the airports Red Way is flying to), but per an airliners.net post...

Atlanta
529 passengers on 10 total flights in June 2023
52.9 passengers per flight, 35.3% full @ 150 seats

Minneapolis
332 passengers on 10 total flights in June 2023
33.2 passengers per flight, 22.1% full @ 150 seats

Orlando
1083 passengers on 14 total flights in June 2023
77.4 passengers per flight, 51.6% full @ 150 seats

https://www.atl.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... R-2306.pdf
https://metroairports.org/msp-passenger ... ns-reports
https://orlandoairports.net/site/uploads/paxs202306.pdf

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtop ... #p23896109

LAS was 1218 passengers on 14 total flights in June
87.0 passenger per flight, 58.0% full @ 150 seats.

[Bob from Omaha]

I'll let Nuke do the math. LNK July numbers are out. Redway did 9,067 pax for the month. United was up 51%

[Mr.Nuke]

I'll let Nuke do the math. LNK July numbers are out. Redway did 9,067 pax for the month. United was up 51%

That was oddly quick for them as opposed to last month.

[Mr.Nuke]

I'll let Nuke do the math. LNK July numbers are out. Redway did 9,067 pax for the month. United was up 51%

I show 127 flights so that is going to be 71.4 passengers per flight or a 47.6% load factor.

[Mr.Nuke]

Again a day after a board meeting, wondering if LNK may have pulled the plug.

[Mr.Nuke]

And there it is.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

A nice try. I guess it’d be better for Lincoln to focus on service by major airlines to major hubs than to try and capture very specific pleasure-based travelers.

[NEDodger]

Alas, what was that jaw-dropping destination going to be?

[almighty_tuna]

I didn't think it was going to last, but I thought it might make it at least until the holidays. Guess not! Yeesh!

Alas, what was that jaw-dropping destination going to be?

Commuter flight to Omaha!

[Bob from Omaha]

Alas, what was that jaw-dropping destination going to be?

I don't know what the alleged jaw dropping destination was but I'm guessing there are a few jaws on the floor with the news.

I think what we can all glean from this is never to doubt Nuke.

[nativeomahan]

Alas, what was that jaw-dropping destination going to be?

Bankruptcy Court.

[Mr.Nuke]

Nick Cusick, who resigned from the Airport Authority Board in July after serving more than 10 years, confirmed to the Journal Star on Wednesday that Red Way had already burned through most of a $3 million incentive fund provided by Lincoln and Lancaster County via left over American Rescue Plan Act funds.

It used more than $900,000 in the first month and it withdrew even more in the second month, Cusick said.

What was left "was deemed to be not enough to safely get them to the finish line," Cusick said, causing Red Way to make the decision to pull the plug.

https://journalstar.com/news/local/busi ... aeb81.html

[Bob from Omaha]

Good thing they remodeled the terminal at LNK. Especially adding 2 gates.

[Coyote]

Lincoln’s Red Way flight service to cease operations



Lincoln’s new flight service, Red Way, is shutting down and all flights booked after Aug. 31 have been cancelled.

[Mr.Nuke]

[Bob from Omaha]

Uh oh. Where's the shredder?

[Coyote]

'A riverboat gamble' Nebraska auditor investigating redway airlines



Nebraska auditor investigating redway airlines

[Coyote]

Nebraska State Auditor to explore $3 million grant for Red Way airlines,
which is quitting service at Lincoln Airport

LINCOLN — Citing concerns expressed to his office, State Auditor Mike Foley said his office will explore a $3 million grant given to an airline that is soon quitting service at the Lincoln Airport. Foley, in a letter to the Lincoln Airport Authority on Friday, said his office had fielded concerns about the large outlay given to the Colorado startup that has provided service out of Lincoln for about three months. An audit of how the money was spent, Foley wrote, would provide “accurate information to taxpayers” and could clear up “misperceptions about government.”

[Mr.Nuke]

Uh oh. Where's the shredder?

Yeah this seems a bit misguided (par for the course with everything associated with this venture). I'd be surprised if either the state auditor or the airport's internal audit of Red Way's finances find anything significant. The cost side of this is pretty easy is pretty easy to figure out. We know Red Way was guaranteed $6,650 per hour. We can also tell from public sources i.e. flight aware or FR24 exactly how many hours the plane flew for. We know the revenue situation was |expletive| to offset that $6,650/hr guarantee when the two months of data we have for the load factors were overall 40-47% and we have reason to believe the fares sold or yield in airline terms were fairly low based on their website.


If anyone is going to "audit" anything here it needs to be what lead up to this. The outcome was inevitable, but where there other options? If so, what was the justification for a moonshot venture like Red Way over them? That is the first question that needs to be answered. And then okay you've justified why you think Red Way is your best/only option. Who thought it was a good idea to agree to |expletive| like this, "It wasn’t just as simple as, we could work with the operator to establish a single market to Vegas or single market to Orlando; we had to meet a certain limit of flying each month and had to have a program that met that.”
https://www.klkntv.com/why-did-lincoln- ... -way-fail/


I get why Red Way wants that they want to pay their crews and justify having the plane operating, but who in Lincoln thought that would be viable? This is what caused the cash to disappear as fast as it did, because they basically capitulated to flying to so many hours a day or week without thought of the consequences. At that point okay you've agreed to that, what thought process (if any) went into the destinations picked? That is the type of stuff that should be "audited" to me.

[NEDodger]

I’m by no means the aviation expert that some of you here are, but to me the ONLY way this would have made sense was if it were non-stop destinations that OMA wasn’t already serving, and it was advertised in OMA as such. Dallas, Denver, Vegas, etc didn’t make sense since OMA already has those.

But Austin made sense to me. Nashville, too. Throw in like a Milwaukee (especially for the Packers) and push the “hey, you can’t get there from Omaha!” angle?

[Mr.Nuke]

I’m by no means the aviation expert that some of you here are, but to me the ONLY way this would have made sense was if it were non-stop destinations that OMA wasn’t already serving, and it was advertised in OMA as such.

I like the thinking... The problem with is most of the destinations that OMA doesn't have non-stop service to, don't have service to don't for a reason. If I go back to Eppley's 2022 Q3 PDEW i.e. where passengers were flying July to September last year, the top destinations without direct flights were Tampa (sees seasonal service), Boston, San Diego (former OMA destination), Nashville (also seasonal service), Miami (also seasonal), probably could have warranted service. A next tier of maybes would be Portland(former OMA destination)and Austin is down a ways in numbers that make it iffy to warrant service. That is about it on what you theoretically could've targeted.

What do all of those have in common? They're on the coasts and about as far away as you could domestically fly in the lower 48 from LNK. So San Diego for example at ~3 hours in flight time each way costs $19,950 for flight @ the $6,650 subsidy. That means you'd need to sell each seat on the plane (including ancillary revenue like bags) for an average of $133 or a half full flight $266 to break even. Again with the fares these guys were offering I don't see them getting anywhere near profitability and it is possible that they have burned through the cash at an even higher rate given the longer average flight lengths. It may have made more sense than trying to compete head to head with in some cases multiple airlines on given routes out of Eppley though.

[Bob from Omaha]

Absent the bribe it's all moot. OMA doesn't offer bribes. Another question absent the bribe would be this: Which airport, OMA or LNK, gives the most bang for the buck? Which would offer the most profit? Given the current environment where would Airline X even consider offering the service?

[Mr.Nuke]

Absent the bribe it's all moot. OMA doesn't offer bribes. Another question absent the bribe would be this: Which airport, OMA or LNK, gives the most bang for the buck? Which would offer the most profit? Given the current environment where would Airline X even consider offering the service?

Hence why Lincoln has to offer incentives and even then an airline (see AA to DFW) may not bite.

[Bob from Omaha]

In a story in the Lincoln paper is a piece about raising property taxes to provide $1 million a year for bribes. Also questioned is the expanded terminal that sits empty most of the day. In addition to the audit of Red Way there should be questions regarding the necessity of the airport expansion. It seems an awful lot of money has recently been spent with very little to show for it.
American, Delta, Southwest probably have little to no interest.
Frontier and especially Allegiant probably not either
Breeze or Avelo? To where? Avelo flies to Vegas and Orlando from Dubuque Freakin Iowa for reasons passing understanding, but there you go. Dubuque 50 mile radius population is 365,000 yet merits service. I'd be curious what bribe they are paying.
Anyway, barring some miracle Lincoln is destined to be an also ran at best.

[Mr.Nuke]

In a story in the Lincoln paper is a piece about raising property taxes to provide $1 million a year for bribes. Also questioned is the expanded terminal that sits empty most of the day. In addition to the audit of Red Way there should be questions regarding the necessity of the airport expansion. It seems an awful lot of money has recently been spent with very little to show for it.
American, Delta, Southwest probably have little to no interest.
Frontier and especially Allegiant probably not either
Breeze or Avelo? To where? Avelo flies to Vegas and Orlando from Dubuque Freakin Iowa for reasons passing understanding, but there you go. Dubuque 50 mile radius population is 365,000 yet merits service. I'd be curious what bribe they are paying.
Anyway, barring some miracle Lincoln is destined to be an also ran at best.

Among other items the only "if he we had $5 million instead of $3 million is rich."

As is "I can't think of another instance where a new airline came in and threw seven markets at the board right away," Haring said. "That would not have been our choice and there was a lot of concern about that."

You guys agreed to it...

[Mr.Nuke]

Avelo flies to Vegas and Orlando from Dubuque Freakin Iowa for reasons passing understanding, but there you go. Dubuque 50 mile radius population is 365,000 yet merits service. I'd be curious what bribe they are paying.

$1 million MRG.
https://www.kcrg.com/2023/08/11/avelo-a ... t-dubuque/

[mistergutierrez]

Avelo flies to Vegas and Orlando from Dubuque Freakin Iowa for reasons passing understanding, but there you go. Dubuque 50 mile radius population is 365,000 yet merits service. I'd be curious what bribe they are paying.

$1 million MRG.
https://www.kcrg.com/2023/08/11/avelo-a ... t-dubuque/

That´s the business model of Ryanair, the largest low-cost airline in Europe: Secondary airports, one type of plane, and plenty of of fiscal stimulus and by local and regional governments.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ryanair ... s-1.659808

[Mr.Nuke]

That´s the business model of Ryanair, the largest low-cost airline in Europe: Secondary airports, one type of plane, and plenty of of fiscal stimulus and by local and regional governments.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ryanair ... s-1.659808

Eh... RyanAir will take subsidies, but they're also very adapt at running an airline. No one on either side of this transaction in Lincoln was.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s-aircraft

[Bob from Omaha]

i can't believe that there was, as far as publicly available knowledge, NO ONE who stood up at a meeting and said "Say everyone. I am not sure I think we should spend money expanding the terminal and adding gates given that we're not using the current ones very much"

[Mr.Nuke]

i can't believe that there was, as far as publicly available knowledge, NO ONE who stood up at a meeting and said "Say everyone. I am not sure I think we should spend money expanding the terminal and adding gates given that we're not using the current ones very much"

There have been a lot of questionable decisions down there lately, because someone should've done the same thing for this Red Way proposal too.

[nativeomahan]

i can't believe that there was, as far as publicly available knowledge, NO ONE who stood up at a meeting and said "Say everyone. I am not sure I think we should spend money expanding the terminal and adding gates given that we're not using the current ones very much"

Obviously the Powers That Be bought in quite literally to the adage “if you build it they will come”.

[Coyote]

Airport Authority reacts to Red Way shutting down



The Lincoln Airport will pursue an audit after Red Way's sudden closure.

[Coyote]

Lincoln airline still owes hundreds after closure



There are more frustrations coming out of Lincoln as Red Way Airlines still owes money to hundreds of customers nearly three weeks after its last flight.