Omaha's Brain Drain

[Louie]

|expletive| pathetic.

[ita]

Keep in mind that these graphs are based on 5 year rolling averages, at least for midsize metros like Omaha. +1 million population metros are based on 2 year rolling averages. It seems like it's accounting for a year or two after 2020/initial pandemic year. That year definitely hurt Omaha's brain drain issue, but we're returning to relatively flat migration for that demographic. Nothing to be excited about, but also there's opportunities for improvement. Our in migration numbers have been steadily increasing for college educated people; how do we retain them? For non-college educated people, why has that been in a steady decline since 2010? I know we'll talk in circles about the data and the why's, and we'll hear the same arguments all around, but the data is showing we are straggling behind our neighbors Des Moines and KC. It's like we're the middle child no one pays attention to.

[Garrett]

I think part of the reason we struggle on in migration for educated people is that Omaha has a lot of high quality universities. So people come here at 18 for school, which the data doesn't account for, and then get their degrees and then either stay or leave. Omaha has UNO, with 15,000 students, Creighton, with almost 9,000 students, and UNMC, with 4,500 students. Even College of Saint Mary and Clarkson both have around 1,000.

Meanwhile Des Moines has Drake with almost 5,000 students and Grand View with almost 2,000, and then basically nothing. So you have students going to Iowa State, Iowa, or even universities here in Omaha and then moving to Des Moines for work. That would show in the data as gains in college educated people for cities like Des Moines, and losses for cities with big universities like Omaha and Lincoln.

[ita]

I think part of the reason we struggle on in migration for educated people is that Omaha has a lot of high quality universities. So people come here at 18 for school, which the data doesn't account for, and then get their degrees and then either stay or leave. Omaha has UNO, with 15,000 students, Creighton, with almost 9,000 students, and UNMC, with 4,500 students. Even College of Saint Mary and Clarkson both have around 1,000.

Meanwhile Des Moines has Drake with almost 5,000 students and Grand View with almost 2,000, and then basically nothing. So you have students going to Iowa State, Iowa, or even universities here in Omaha and then moving to Des Moines for work. That would show in the data as gains in college educated people for cities like Des Moines, and losses for cities with big universities like Omaha and Lincoln.

That's a valuable assessment. I was thinking about that specifically for Lincoln's numbers. I didn't take that into account for Omaha. I think they are looking at metro area. If you include Bellevue University, that's another 10k students. Des Moines's MSA does not include Ames, and I am sure plenty of students from Iowa State end up in Des Moines for work, like you said. That's not to pat ourselves on the back, but it does give additional perspective on these numbers.

[almighty_tuna]

Yep, solid points on that one.

[ricko]

I think part of the reason we struggle on in migration for educated people is that Omaha has a lot of high quality universities. So people come here at 18 for school, which the data doesn't account for, and then get their degrees and then either stay or leave. Omaha has UNO, with 15,000 students, Creighton, with almost 9,000 students, and UNMC, with 4,500 students. Even College of Saint Mary and Clarkson both have around 1,000.

Meanwhile Des Moines has Drake with almost 5,000 students and Grand View with almost 2,000, and then basically nothing. So you have students going to Iowa State, Iowa, or even universities here in Omaha and then moving to Des Moines for work. That would show in the data as gains in college educated people for cities like Des Moines, and losses for cities with big universities like Omaha and Lincoln.

That's a valuable assessment. I was thinking about that specifically for Lincoln's numbers. I didn't take that into account for Omaha. I think they are looking at metro area. If you include Bellevue University, that's another 10k students. Des Moines's MSA does not include Ames, and I am sure plenty of students from Iowa State end up in Des Moines for work, like you said. That's not to pat ourselves on the back, but it does give additional perspective on these numbers.

Keep in mind that Bellevue U. serves a good number of transients from Offutt—-probably skews the numbers a bit.

[Garrett]

I think part of the reason we struggle on in migration for educated people is that Omaha has a lot of high quality universities. So people come here at 18 for school, which the data doesn't account for, and then get their degrees and then either stay or leave. Omaha has UNO, with 15,000 students, Creighton, with almost 9,000 students, and UNMC, with 4,500 students. Even College of Saint Mary and Clarkson both have around 1,000.

Meanwhile Des Moines has Drake with almost 5,000 students and Grand View with almost 2,000, and then basically nothing. So you have students going to Iowa State, Iowa, or even universities here in Omaha and then moving to Des Moines for work. That would show in the data as gains in college educated people for cities like Des Moines, and losses for cities with big universities like Omaha and Lincoln.

That's a valuable assessment. I was thinking about that specifically for Lincoln's numbers. I didn't take that into account for Omaha. I think they are looking at metro area. If you include Bellevue University, that's another 10k students. Des Moines's MSA does not include Ames, and I am sure plenty of students from Iowa State end up in Des Moines for work, like you said. That's not to pat ourselves on the back, but it does give additional perspective on these numbers.

Keep in mind that Bellevue U. serves a good number of transients from Offutt—-probably skews the numbers a bit.

Bellevue U has a huge distance program in general so I decided to exclude it since I couldn't find a breakdown of where their students live. It's like how Southern New Hampshire University advertises nationwide, had 138,000 students, but only around 4,000 are on campus. But even if only 1,000 students from Bellevue U live in the metro that's a good point as well.

[legato9]

|expletive| pathetic.

As a guy with a grad degree somewhat on the fence about staying here…this does not help. This is utterly embarrassing and shameful.

I have the misfortune of being in central Nebraska this week. I’m serious: It feels more like a foreign country to me than most of Europe does. And not in a good way.

[Louie]

|expletive| pathetic.

As a guy with a grad degree somewhat on the fence about staying here…this does not help. This is utterly embarrassing and shameful.

I have the misfortune of being in central Nebraska this week. I’m serious: It feels more like a foreign country to me than most of Europe does. And not in a good way.

Yep. Its massively frustrating. I have family ties that keep me here but many of my fellow classmates from college don’t. And many haven’t stuck around.

[Athomsfere]

|expletive| pathetic.

As a guy with a grad degree somewhat on the fence about staying here…this does not help. This is utterly embarrassing and shameful.

I have the misfortune of being in central Nebraska this week. I’m serious: It feels more like a foreign country to me than most of Europe does. And not in a good way.

Yep. Its massively frustrating. I have family ties that keep me here but many of my fellow classmates from college don’t. And many haven’t stuck around.

Gotta say it.

I love Omaha, I hate this state.

BY my projections, we are only a few years from not only being educated, but in the top 2 or 3% of household incomes in Nebraska. And the state is seriously doing everything it can to make us not want to stay in this adopted city that I love.

Which really sucks, because I feel like the state needs us more than ever to help swing the state back to sanity. I'll keep donating to the Nebraska ACLU I'm sure, and we'll likely keep property here... But damn.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

For what it's worth, most red states are acting the same was as Nebraska right now.

[Athomsfere]

For what it's worth, most red states are acting the same was as Nebraska right now.

Which is just sad how much we've backslide to protect "states rights" over human rights.

[Louie]

For what it's worth, most red states are acting the same was as Nebraska right now.

Which is just sad how much we've backslide to protect "states rights" over human rights.

gun rights over human rights, its the american way

[TitosBuritoBarn]

For what it's worth, most red states are acting the same was as Nebraska right now.

Which is just sad how much we've backslide to protect "states rights" over human rights.

gun rights over human rights, its the american way

It doesn't make any sense. Maybe my bubble is too small, but who are these politicians pandering to anyway? Who are these people asking for puberty blocker bans and abortion bans and why do we care what they think? How about we just keep things as they were and deal with more important issues that don't have to do with American's genitals.

[Athomsfere]

For what it's worth, most red states are acting the same was as Nebraska right now.

Which is just sad how much we've backslide to protect "states rights" over human rights.

gun rights over human rights, its the american way

It doesn't make any sense. Maybe my bubble is too small, but who are these politicians pandering to anyway? Who are these people asking for puberty blocker bans and abortion bans and why do we care what they think? How about we just keep things as they were and deal with more important issues that don't have to do with American's genitals.

Turn on Fox "news". Whoever they are pandering too is the same group.

Part of that recent lawsuit should also require that Fox can't call that show news anymore. Much like the Daily Show doesn't. If their goal is ratings, wild opinions and outrageous claims the FCC shouldn't allow that format to lie and call themselves a news show.

[Louie]

For what it's worth, most red states are acting the same was as Nebraska right now.

Which is just sad how much we've backslide to protect "states rights" over human rights.

gun rights over human rights, its the american way

It doesn't make any sense. Maybe my bubble is too small, but who are these politicians pandering to anyway? Who are these people asking for puberty blocker bans and abortion bans and why do we care what they think? How about we just keep things as they were and deal with more important issues that don't have to do with American's genitals.

I truly do not know. My assumption is that they are pandering to an older crowd, since that is who donates to local politicians the most. So it seems that unless the younger crowd starts donating, they'll keep pandering. What a broken |expletive| system.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

Yeah, that's the only logical reason I can see for why Nebraska state politicians think they're going to stem brain drain by subsidizing youth sports shopping centers and banning personal freedoms.

[nativeomahan]

|expletive| pathetic.

As a guy with a grad degree somewhat on the fence about staying here…this does not help. This is utterly embarrassing and shameful.

I have the misfortune of being in central Nebraska this week. I’m serious: It feels more like a foreign country to me than most of Europe does. And not in a good way.

As someone who used to commute almost weekly to Central Nebraska for work, and who now lives much of the year in Jalisco, México, I can state that rural Nebraska (and rural Iowa, Kansas, Colorado, South Dakota, etc.) resembles almost exactly rural Mexico, save for the occasional mountains that break up the dust and monotony of rural Mexico. They are both lands that time forgot.

[Coyote]

Nebraska ‘brain drain’ persists, plus another alarm is raised by new census data

OMAHA — Nebraska’s “brain drain” of people with a bachelor’s degree or higher leaving the state is persistent and worsening, according to newly released U.S. Census data. But the same survey also raises an alarm about who else is fleeing. “Notably, the data reveals that individuals 25 years and older with other (lesser) levels of educational attainment also are leaving the state,” says Josie Schafer of the Center for Public Affairs Research at the University of Nebraska at Omaha. Her office, which consults with state policymakers and legislators about workforce and economic development patterns, analyzed migration-related findings from the American Community Survey’s five-year estimates through 2022, which were released this month.

Consider:

In 2022, the state lost an estimated 1,089 adults aged 25 and older with an education of high school diploma or less. While a relatively small slice, Schafer said that the drop marks a shift from several previous years when Nebraska was attracting individuals in that education group.

In the category of individuals with some college or an associate degree, Nebraska saw a net gain in 2022, though small: 35. For perspective, the state in 2019 had a net increase in that population of more than 2,000.

[Louie]

Wow, the state is pushing everybody out now....

[Big E]

You have a GOP that is openly hostile to things like science and actual education, also happens to control the state legislature and the Governor's office, and whose social policies are as opposite the typical Highly Educated Young Person® demographic as you can get.

WOW do people think is going to happen?

Do you, by all means. Just don't sit around wondering why this continues to happen.

But I'm sure it is the property taxes.

[Louie]

You have a GOP that is openly hostile to things like science and actual education, also happens to control the state legislature and the Governor's office, and whose social policies are as opposite the typical Highly Educated Young Person® demographic as you can get.

WOW do people think is going to happen?

Do you, by all means. Just don't sit around wondering why this continues to happen.

But I'm sure it is the property taxes.

Oh, believe me, I completely understand that this is self inflicted. I was just surprised to see the High School diploma or less group also leaving.

[Big E]

Yeah fair that was directed at the “royal you”, not “you” specifically.

[Louie]

Yeah fair that was directed at the “royal you”, not “you” specifically.

Ope, my bad

[Garrett]

It's interesting to see the Kansas and South Dakota remained relatively flat compared to the rest of the region. But on a per capita basis Nebraska is far and away the loser here.

[Renovator2559]

You have a GOP that is openly hostile to things like science and actual education, also happens to control the state legislature and the Governor's office, and whose social policies are as opposite the typical Highly Educated Young Person® demographic as you can get.

WOW do people think is going to happen?

Do you, by all means. Just don't sit around wondering why this continues to happen.

But I'm sure it is the property taxes.

Has nothing to do with the GOP "hostility" , in fact it's the inverse. The map shows that people are moving to common sense states not emotional fantasy utopia liberal states.

GOP leader states like Texas and Florida show the most netgains.
While woke utopias show a big decline. People are being turned off by the way that blue states are being run.

It's interesting to see the Kansas and South Dakota remained relatively flat compared to the rest of the region. But on a per capita basis Nebraska is far and away the loser here.

Also pro gun Kristi Noem of South Dakota during covid, ran the state without locking down and preserving freedom of its citizens. Many people were voicing how great South Dakota was being run and it spread through social media.

While it's easy to go into panic, whenever "brain drain" and Nebraska is discussed, it's important to remember that Nebraska is average in brain drain and historically most low population states lose people to high population states.

Let those high population states, receive high amounts of people and not be as stable. Their people complain of too many people moving in and making everything expensive for them.

It has served Omaha well in growing steady rather than growing too quick for city planners to keep up.

[Elkhorn_Urbanist]

You have a GOP that is openly hostile to things like science and actual education, also happens to control the state legislature and the Governor's office, and whose social policies are as opposite the typical Highly Educated Young Person® demographic as you can get.

WOW do people think is going to happen?

Do you, by all means. Just don't sit around wondering why this continues to happen.

But I'm sure it is the property taxes.

Has nothing to do with the GOP "hostility" , in fact it's the inverse. The map shows that people are moving to common sense states not emotional fantasy utopia liberal states.

GOP leader states like Texas and Florida show the most netgains.
While woke utopias show a big decline. People are being turned off by the way that blue states are being run.

It's interesting to see the Kansas and South Dakota remained relatively flat compared to the rest of the region. But on a per capita basis Nebraska is far and away the loser here.

Also pro gun Kristi Noem of South Dakota during covid, ran the state without locking down and preserving freedom of its citizens. Many people were voicing how great South Dakota was being run and it spread through social media.

While it's easy to go into panic, whenever "brain drain" and Nebraska is discussed, it's important to remember that Nebraska is average in brain drain and historically most low population states lose people to high population states.

Let those high population states, receive high amounts of people and not be as stable. Their people complain of too many people moving in and making everything expensive for them.

It has served Omaha well in growing steady rather than growing too quick for city planners to keep up.

I don't think that "common sense" policies that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans has anything to do with the migration pictured in this figure. I think people are moving to places that have a low cost of living, or where job growth is robust. The states where these factors are both true have seen the highest amount of growth. To say that "liberal utopias" haven't seen any growth is to just not even take into account the gains of Washington, Oregon, Nevada, etc. These places have either low COL (Nevada) or high job growth (Washington and Oregon) and offer interesting geography at the same time. The rust belt has lost population due primarily to jobs. No one would call Ohio a "liberal bastion" at this point. California has had stagnation in population due to costs of housing and movement of corporations and operations out of state. I think that Texas and Florida have seen growth in spite of their horribly non-people friendly policies due to a favorable tax climate for corporations and the jobs that those have brought. Nebraska unfortunately has a dearth of opportunity outside of Omaha and Lincoln, and has had a net loss of population as a result.

TL;DR: people move where their jobs are, or where they can afford to live, sometimes this is the same place. They leave places where it is too expensive or the job opportunities are limited.

[Big E]

"TL;DR: people move where their jobs are, or where they can afford to live, sometimes this is the same place. They leave places where it is too expensive or the job opportunities are limited."

Bingo.

California and New York are, to a certain extent, victims of their own success. Housing isn't expensive in places because no one wants to live there.

Drill down beyond the state maps and you'll see the white collar growth in Texas is attributable to 1) tech that can be performed remotely and 2) mostly Austin. It isn't because of yay gun and boo abortion. Is there a correspoding influx of people to Florida for jobs at Chik Fil A and Hobby Lobby?

[Renovator2559]

I don't think that "common sense" policies that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans has anything to do with the migration pictured in this figure. I think people are moving to places that have a low cost of living, or where job growth is robust. The states where these factors are both true have seen the highest amount of growth. To say that "liberal utopias" haven't seen any growth is to just not even take into account the gains of Washington, Oregon, Nevada, etc. These places have either low COL (Nevada) or high job growth (Washington and Oregon) and offer interesting geography at the same time. The rust belt has lost population due primarily to jobs. No one would call Ohio a "liberal bastion" at this point. California has had stagnation in population due to costs of housing and movement of corporations and operations out of state. I think that Texas and Florida have seen growth in spite of their horribly non-people friendly policies due to a favorable tax climate for corporations and the jobs that those have brought. Nebraska unfortunately has a dearth of opportunity outside of Omaha and Lincoln, and has had a net loss of population as a result.

TL;DR: people move where their jobs are, or where they can afford to live, sometimes this is the same place. They leave places where it is too expensive or the job opportunities are limited.

The covid death narrative is old. Lockdowns, social isolation, job loss, drug overdoses; contributed a lot to death and a lot of destroyed families in these pro lockdown strongholds.

These low cost states are low cost because their economies are run well, much less bloated government. People also were following states that were not woke and who cared about protecting the innocense of children, enacted gun rights and respecting law enforcement, enacting laws, respecting freedoms, and creating more jobs. These are the truly pro-people states

Rather than permitting crime of less than $1000, like California. The truely anti-people states are those that permit crime, homeless enablers, hard drug legalization (oregon) sexualization of children by permitting pornographic books in elementary schools, allowing pedos out of jail early (california). Also, following the headlines shows the usual suspect places dealing with mass shoplifting and closing stores.

That cheap excuse of better topography on those north western states, is not what people care about and in fact those states did not gain as much as those red southern states that have "lesser" topography. Portland and Seattle are not doing so hot right now, these two cities keep making headlines. I wouldn't be surprised if some of Californians were the ones that fled to these states.

[Big E]

Morans.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

Low cost states are low cost because they offer fewer services. You get what you pay for. It has little to do with economy. For example the Bay Area tech economy is still head over heels stronger than Austin could ever imagine despite what headlines would have you believe. Orlando is growing by leeps and bounds but most of the jobs are in the service sector. Is that a good economy if you have a job but cant get ahead in life?

Furthermore you’re discussing freedoms and common sense as they are defined by the GOP and with regard to certain people, not any universal definitions of freedom and common sense. Is it freedom if a book about two gay bunnies is pulled from a children’s library and the government as imposed a choice on if that book is appropriate for children? Is it common sense to keep that book away from children when gay people and gay families are everywhere and something children will encounter if they have not already?

To quote Lucile Bluth: “I’d rather be dead in California than alive in Arizona.”

[ricko]

I can only speak from personal experience, but this somewhat functioning brain left Omaha years ago because I didn’t want to spend my life fighting mindless homophobia. Omaha was not a good place to be gay 50 years ago.
The current wave of anti-“woke” (whatever T.F. that means) hysteria that the right has conjured up to scare the ignorant has set us back decades, and I will never trust anyone who holds those antiquated beliefs. I’ve noticed over the years that they almost always target the powerless.

I’ll bet that this section of the thread will eventually be deleted, which will prove my point.

[Garrett]

I can only speak from personal experience, but this somewhat functioning brain left Omaha years ago because I didn’t want to spend my life fighting mindless homophobia. Omaha was not a good place to be gay 50 years ago.
The current wave of anti-“woke” (whatever T.F. that means) hysteria that the right has conjured up to scare the ignorant has set us back decades, and I will never trust anyone who holds those antiquated beliefs. I’ve noticed over the years that they almost always target the powerless.

I’ll bet that this section of the thread will eventually be deleted, which will prove my point.

Yeah, the backsliding over the last few years has been distinctly troubling. I'd say Omaha and the country as a whole is better than before but the homophobes that are left are crazier than ever.

[Renovator2559]

Low cost states are low cost because they offer fewer services. You get what you pay for. It has little to do with economy. For example the Bay Area tech economy is still head over heels stronger than Austin could ever imagine despite what headlines would have you believe. Orlando is growing by leeps and bounds but most of the jobs are in the service sector. Is that a good economy if you have a job but cant get ahead in life?

Furthermore you’re discussing freedoms and common sense as they are defined by the GOP and with regard to certain people, not any universal definitions of freedom and common sense. Is it freedom if a book about two gay bunnies is pulled from a children’s library and the government as imposed a choice on if that book is appropriate for children? Is it common sense to keep that book away from children when gay people and gay families are everywhere and something children will encounter if they have not already?

San Francisco is a dying city, I wouldn't even list that as an example of "progress". San Francisco keeps making head lines and not for the right reasons.

Those obscene books for children in schools are not about cute gay bunnies as you downplay. It's about graphic naked pictures of children doing and teaching kids how to do certain sexual activities, one even teaches children the wonders of hookup apps.

It doesn't matter if the content is hetero or homo, leave the children alone and allow the children to remain innocent, until they are of age and allow parents to make informed decisions for their children.

Since Omaha has ranked high in many top lists for a long time, including being Top 3rd city for families in the US. The results of Omaha being in the top lists speak for themselves on how well Omaha is doing.

To quote Lucile Bluth: “I’d rather be dead in California than alive in Arizona.”

What does reality of the migration map actually say? the opposite of that outdated quote. Also, Hollywood TV constructed narratives are not reality.

[Big E]

Also, Hollywood TV constructed narratives are not reality.

Niether are ones from AM radio or Fox News.

There is something genuinely wrong with you. Get help.

[Renovator2559]

What an out of date perception
Those mediums are archaic, fox news is controlled opposition and a distraction, there are other mediums besides what corporate media wants the public to see.

The way you always make those "kind" "collected" and "not name calling", really shows what a "stable genius" you are..

Your statements are rooted in intelligence and always am amused at the level of intellect you expouse!

[Big E]

[Doctor Fate]

What an out of date perception
Those mediums are archaic, fox news is controlled opposition and a distraction, there are other mediums besides what corporate media wants the public to see.

The way you always make those "kind" "collected" and "not name calling", really shows what a "stable genius" you are..

Your statements are rooted in intelligence and always am amused at the level of intellect you expouse!

Lol Renovator, aren't you the one who immediately resorted to ad hominem against me when I rejected your "intelligent" and "elite" theories on the alkaline diet being able to cure Celiac Disease and rewrite genetics? Yes, you are....smh lol

[legato9]

Hahahahahahahaha

Yup.

[Nosebot]

Y'all do we have this discourse on the forum? I feel like I'm on reddit again..